Comments (Page 303)

The STARBEAST Plot would be kind of interesting to explore if we introduce a History where there was some Ancient Organism based of the STARBEAST that are Civilized but require a HOST to Procreate.

The STARBEAST has a very FLAWED method of Procreation (if we go only by the Starbeast Draft) for it requires a Host to Procreate.... ONCE all Hosts are used up, then it is only a matter of TIME before this Species becomes Extinct... If we assume they are NOT Immortal.

This ties to Davids Comments in the ADVENT Viral... that sometimes you need to Give Life to the WOLF and the LAMB.  If we look at this in context to the STARBEAST

A Civilized Organism like the Starbeast that has a Life-Cycle where it REQUIRES a other Organism as a Vessel to Gestate and Procreate from within... a HOST would require to GIVE LIFE to these Hosts... because ONCE they run out then its only a matter of time before the Starbeast becomes EXTINCT... well Dormant... until a unsuspecting Organism stumbles upon their Eggs/Spores.

This is what happens in STARBEAST but without any of its own Adult Kind to raise and nurture the Starbeast, it relies on Natural Instincts which is to SURVIVE and Feed and Procreate.

If we INTRODUCE a Ancient Race that would resemble the Starbeast, then it leaves it open to have the Engineers Ancestors to be a Organism these Starbeasts deemed Suitable for the use of a HOST

We then need to look at these STARBEASTS  and ask Are they a Race who have Mastered Space Travel ?

Because if they HAVE NOT then then are confined to their Homeworld, where they would have to use suitable Organisms Native to this World as Hosts!  For this Race to had become Civilized and able to build Temples/Pyramids they would have to have been around for a considerable time and this means their Homeworld would have had a ample supply of Host Organisms to allow them to Procreate and Survive for Thousands or Millions or years.

For a Race such as this, they would have had to have had access to plenty of Hosts at some point... ONCE these Hosts start to be used up, then for this Race you would ASSUME they would GIVE LIFE to some Hosts... because they would NEED their Hosts to also Procreate and Survive or else the STARBEAST race would become Extinct (well Dormant).

HOWEVER.... if these STARBEASTS had been able to Travel the Stars then they would be able to seek out Worlds to find more Hosts for the Procreation of their Species.

We now come to the QUESTION... does the type of HOST make a difference?  In Alien we see the Xenomorph can take Traits of its HOST.  But in regards to introducing a Ancient Star Beast like Race... then we have to ask does the HOST make a massive difference?

This Race can go on to develop and become Civilized, they would likely have a Ritualistic Approach to their Birthing Rituals (if we base them off the Star Beast) and so would a Starbeast Born from a COW grown to be as intelligent as that from a HUMANOID?

If the Intelligence and type of HOST has a massive impact on how Intelligent the Star Beast would become, then it would be ideal for them to seek out a PERFECT Host, or maybe even Engineer a PERFECT Host.

So If this Species, seeks out and either Discover a Humanoid or Create One, or a combination of both (Discover a Species and Engineer/Evolve it) so they end up USING a Race Related to the Engineers for their Procreation Rituals..  Then we arrive at this Scenario..

Such a ideal Intelligent (or potentially) Species would have the Potential of becoming Sentient and wishing to live by its own means and NOT be willing to be used as Sacrifices. Maybe unless their is some BENEFIT to this species to be used as HOSTS..

The Problem with say using Humans as Hosts would be unless a VERY Ritualistic/Religious Agenda can be imposed on these Humanoids where they see the Starbeast as the Gods and the Occasional Sacrifice is in Honor of their Gods or Benefit to their own kind.... (Giving Life to the Lamb and Wolf)  Would be the Potential to REBEL against being Forced to be used as HOSTS..  Lets look at how these Starbeast could use Humanoid Hosts and Procreate them..

1) Keep them imprisoned in Pens/Cages like we would with say Battery Kept Chickens but these Humanoids would be Unhappy and Suffering with these Conditions and their is the Potential they would TRY to escape  and be FREE.... now for Chickens this is NO worry, but for a Intelligent Species that can Procreate this could be a Problem for those keeping these Humanoids as HOSTS

2) Keep these Hosts in some kind of City, Land and give them Freedom, Buildings, Food and allow them to Live their Lives in some kind of Freedom... BUT then have them subjected to a Ritual/Religion where they see you as their Creators/Gods and that the Sacrificial Requirement is required now and again and is of Great Benefit to them, be brainwashing them with a Religious/Ritualistic Doctrine.   The Problem is that again Rebellion could set in if some of the Humanoid Hosts object, or DISCOVER the Truth.

3) As above, but Do-Not reveal the Nature of the Sacrifice, have these Humanoid Hosts believe that Now and Again the Chosen Few are taken away for some Great Purpose and Unaware of what this is... but certainly they have NO IDEA they are needed as Hosts for their Masters... This is kind of similar PLOT to the Movie  The Island and this kind of Method keeps your Hosts in a State of Contempt, and Excitement and Bliss of being Chosen and reduces this Host Species from Rebelling or getting Out of Control.... 

Until some of them Discover the TRUTH!

Scenario 2/3 would be more Ideal if these Starbeasts keep their Hosts on another World... so IF they become AWARE of their Purpose and Rebel, then you can take care of them.  If they are kept on the same WORLD as the Starbeasts then there is the Risk of them Discovering the Truth, Rebelling, Escaping and Overthrowing their Masters.

A PLOT like this could be applied to a STARBEAST Race and the Ancestors of the Engineers, where the Ancestors gain Freedom from their Starbeast Masters... and with NO Hosts their Masters will eventually DIE off and leave the Engineers Ancestors as those who Inherent all the Knowledge and Technology of their Would-Be False Gods and Imprisoners.

This PLOT could also related to between Engineers and Humans instead.

The other OPTION is..

4) The Humanoid Hosts are Grown/Kept in some kind of Pods, like the MATRIX which we then have to ask does the STARBEAST only need our Psychical Body or would the HOSTS need to not be BRAIN-DEAD and so they would need to be kept in some Stasis where their Brains are Active, in some state of SLEEP or maybe some kind of MATRIX REALITY?

So indeed IF we explored a Ancient Race as the Origins of the Xenomorph DNA and Bio-Mechanical Technology/Biology then they would ideally NEED to have the Ideal Hosts and a means to allow their Hosts to Procreate but also be subdued in some way so they cant be a Threat to Rebellion.

The introduction of SUCH a PLOT would allow us to bring in something more ALIEN something more Bio-Mechanical, and also use the Plot of STARBEAST while also keeping with the Themes and Philosophy of PROMETHEUS.

This PLOT is what i was aiming at with my Eventual Conclusion to how i was to tackle Prometheus Sequels.. well it would have been revealed at the end of my Prometheus 3 and left it open to Explore in a 4th Movie.

Well Freezerinos

I will attempt in a short way possible, the route that was being taken and what we ended up with...

Originally the Prequels attempted to address a few things.

*Xenomorph Origin, WHERE/WHY and by Who!

*Space Jockey Race, WHO are they and WHAT is their Purpose.

The Derelict Event was alluded to, but there was so many inconsitancies from Alien Engineers (Earlier Prometheus Draft) that did-not add up to ALIEN

Alien Engineers actually gave quite a few clues to the Xenomorph Origin.  The Plot seemed to indicate the Engineers at some point had discovered a place where there was some Native Organism that had a Life-Cycle similar to that of the Xenomorph, this Organism was found (how i interpret it) in a Cave System.   The Engineers must have seen themselves infected by this Organism and became interested in the Result (maybe because at this period in the Plot, the Engineers could not Procreate/Give Birth to Life as they lost this ability).

As a Race who took a interest in Genetic Manipulation and Pursuit of Perfection they took a Great Interest in this Organism and its Life-Cycle and Results and began to use their CREATION Tool (Sacrificial Goo/Scarabs) to Experiment and Engineer this Organism.. Resulting in a number of Variations of this Organism, that through the Experiments also represented the Xenomorph... Thus they Created the Xenomorph and 7 other Variants.

They had become upset/angry with how Mankind has turned out, and they had Engineered these Organisms to be used as a Weapon.  This is how i Interpret Alien Engineers Draft and the Concept Works.

So it appeared the Engineers are Creators of Life, they go around Experimenting with Life, Evolving it and they had encountered something they had NOT created, and they chose to Experiment with this to Create the Xenomorph which they intended to use as a Weapon to Cleanse the Earth.    The conclusion to how Alien Engineers connects to Alien has flaws and inconstancy... it kind of indicated the Space Jockey Event may have happened at the END of this Story.   For Starters this event happened in the year 2172 so 50 years after the events of ALIEN is this a Typo?

Anyway we then come along to PROMETHEUS well first Damien Lindeloff's Paradise...  the idea with this draft and Prometheus was that MAYBE its best to keep the Xenomorph Origin and Space Jockey Event a Mystery and just give clues to them... and to concentrate more on the Engineers and other Themes as the Xenomorph had been done over and over and over.

Prometheus was more ambiguous but showed there is a connection between the Xenomorph and the Experiments the Engineers had been Carrying out on LV-223 these connections seemed to show that MAYBE the Space Jockey Event was related to the Outbreak on LV-223 some 2000 years ago.

The clues allude us to conclude the Xenomorph was..

*A Organism that the Engineers either Discovered/Created and they had used its DNA to Produce the Black Goo and Experiments.

*A Related Organism they either Discovered/Created and they had used its DNA to Produce the Black Goo and Experiments and the Xenomorph was a eventual result of this.

*The Black Goo was obtained/created by some other means and the Xenomorph is the result of one of the Experiments of Accident regarding the Black Goo.

It was left ambiguous.... but likely the Xenomorph connects via one of those THREE options.

Ridley Scott after Prometheus CONFIRMS the Xenomorph Origins and Space Jockey Event by saying it was a Event Related to what was being experimented on LV-223.  The EVENT happened within a Few Hundred years of the Outbreak on LV-223 so happened a either 2200 years ago give or take or 1800 years ago give or take.  Something had EVOLVED in the Cargo Hold and then infected the Pilot, who then set a course to the near by Moon of LV-426 to Quarantine his Ship.

BUT ALAS.......

We got Alien Covenant were RS felt the Hubris of Mankinds Creation of Life trying to imitate GOD in the Creation of David and also seeking out our own Creators/Makers.   Leads us to this Place our would-be Creators had been experimenting with some Pretty Horrific Bio-Weapons... Intended for us...

The Horror of the Hubris of seeking out things we should not be seeking, and Creating things we should not be Creating comes back to HAUNT us as our Creation David, decides to Create/Perfect his own Creation from the Bio-Weapon Experiments the Engineers had been attempting to Create/Harness and that a Android who we created has now become Sentient, and sees itself as the Natural Evolution and Superior and that Mankind are NOT Worthy of our Existence.   And essentially also feels the Engineers were not worthy of their Secrets too...

Ridley Scott felt this Curve-ball was more a Horrific Realization to the Creation of the Xenomorph.  In that IF Weyland had NOT played GOD himself and then wanted to Seek his MAKERS for immortality then the Xenomorph would not be unleashed into the Galaxy.

So thats the EVOLUTION of the idea behind the Xenomorphs Origins that the Prequels had taken...

The Fans suffering the same Hubris that RS is trying to tell.... SOME THINGS are best left alone and Quest for Answers should not be attempted.

In that RS wanted to steer away from the Xenomorph and Alien and explore the Engineers and other Creation Philosophical Themes...   But he seemed upset that Fans did not like the route he wanted to go, and WANTED more Xenomorphs and the Answers to the Space Jockey and his Cargo...

Se we now end up with a Answer that is something most of us would NEVER had wanted.... but as RS said "they want Aliens, i will give them $£%£^ Aliens"  he does now seem to prioritize his AI and Creation Theme above the Xenomorph.

daliens, yeah kind of planning it that way....but there's a couple of planets where they might really find some stuff!

2nd man enters the room. He is heavily armed, then proceeds to hand a weapon to 217, who immediately trains it on David.

2nd “We’ve got more problems..”

217 “Now what..”

2nd “Just been to the hangar, the drop ship is missing and the deck looks like it’s gone through explosive decompression….it’s a mess”

217  “Just what the hell have you been up to mister David?” ,  “ Do a ships wide search…check the crew deck first”

David glances at the weapon

217 “I know what your computing...and yes, the safety protocols are off...Guns no good unless it spits”

David “Will you wake the captain?”

217 “Not waking anybody…..This was supposed to be seamless…..” , “So...where is the drop ship?”

David offers no answer.

217 “No need to tell me...on Walter’s planet….”

2nd man calls into the ear of 217.

2nd man “I’m on the crew deck” , ”you might want to get up here…”

217 “On our way”

David “And what if I..”

217 turns David off in mid sentence. Showing incredible strength, he picks David up with one arm and carries him to the crew deck.

I'm not trying to be negative or even shortsighted, but the only thing thing mural tells me is that Ridley effed up this entire Alien narrative. The mural depicts a xeno, with Covenant it is clear that David made the xeno's. How does this happen when David was created 2,000 +/- years after the last engineer died in Prometheus? It can't or Ridley, Damon and crew did a really poor job with the story arc. 

Welcome aboard yeoflittlefaith

A number of people have concluded the Engineers are running from something, due to the way they are running and the Deacon like Scream after the Hologram Recording is Activated.  But it is ambiguous, that sound could just be the Hologram Recording being activated and NOT a scream of any Organism.

The Engineer Bodies indeed have Holes that could look like Chest Busters... but due to inconsistencies/clues in the Bodies and comments made by Dr Shaw and others (Janek) it can paint a different picture... as those Space Jockey suits are HOLLOW... the only Logical Explanation is the same as what became of the HEAD, and what we see in the Sacrificial Scene.... those Engineers had been infected with the Black Goo somehow, and they are in the Process of this Spreading and then they break down like the Sacrificial Engineer, such a Violent Chemical Reaction that when contained within a Pressured Suit... its like adding a Mint to a Bottle of Cola and shaking it up and putting the Lid back no..

The reaction/gas build up will try and escape/explode out of the weakest point in the Bottle...  I think this is what happened to the Engineers.... the Reaction to the Infection caused them to turn into Soup... which then Exploded out of their Suits..  The BIG HEAD Room somehow had a Environment that would HALT the Infection and HENCE why those Engineers were running to this Room, and WHY there was a Head inside the Space Jockey Suit Helmet, yet his Body was HOLLOW.

This is just ONE conclusion though....

I can see WHY others come about though.... and the main reason for this is THOSE Props (Dead Engineers) are likely something that was being worked on, based off Alien Engineers (Jon Spaights Prequel) which Prometheus was a Re-Write that began while Production was already under way.

In Alien Engineers, some of those Engineers had birthed Xenomorph related Organisms, other had suffered Death at the hands of such Organisms.  I believe those PROPS were based on Jon Spaights work... and as they had already been worked on by the time we got the Re-writes that then lead to Prometheus... FOX/RS decided to use those Props for Prometheus.

They are HOLLOW because its easier, makes them less work and lighter to move around... but as we can see they appear Hollow in the Movie, it does leave it as a Clue to the Theory i proposed in this reply...

But as the Props where likely from the previous Drafts, then they was created with the intention to SHOW some Chest Busting and also Damage suffered from attacks by Xenomorph related Organisms.

Which leaves either Theory open.....

We also have the Chest Busted Cryo-Pods... now we DONT ever get a clear shot in the Movie, but the Prop Engineers underneath have been Chest Busted...  AGAIN.. Chest Busted Cryo-Pod Engineers was in Alien Engineers draft.

Looking at HOW Dr Shaw had theorized what happened, and a theory like i proposed in this post.... does leave us to PONDER what about those Chest Busted Engineers in Cryo-sleep.

How can some Engineers just break down to NOTHING and others Produce a Chest Buster and HOW-COME those Engineers did not appear to had changed like Fifield?

I think it was RS if not then someone else on Production, mentioned that Fifield would have eventually broken down like the Sacrificial Engineer and Holloway too.  I still would have assumed a Mutation like Fifield inside a Space Jockey suit would maybe have left the infected Space Jockey Suited Engineers, not looking how they did (Space Suits seemed to maintain its Shape/Proportions).

So when looking at the Cryo-Pod Engineers, it could be what ever had Chest Busted from them could have Chased down some of those Engineers, but then HOW did they also get infected? 

This maybe rules out a Docking Infected Juggernaught that the other Engineers investigate and discover the Chest Buster Organisms and run off from them, maybe knocking over some of the Urns in the Process....  I would ASSUME the Space Jockey suits are there to Protect them from the Black Goo but also to Protect the Urns from being Activated. (i ponder if the Prometheus Crew had kept their Helmets on then those Urns may not have leaked.).

So back to the Cryo-Pod Engineers... i was being drawn to maybe they got infected by Hammerpedes.... if they ran into their Cryo-Pods while infected, or potentially and those Small worms had been infected too, then some of these could have got into the Cryo-Pods at some point, or had been stuck at the bottom of the Engineers Boots...

These then either GROW into Hammerpedes and they implant a Embryo inside the Engineers, or the Worms get into the Engineers Mouth and then Grow....

Maybe SABOTAGE is to blame?

Along comes Alien Covenant, that could give us insight when we look at Prometheus... the ONLY Deacon we saw was Birthed from Dr Shaw! 

Alien Covenant reveals there are FEMALE Engineers, this could mean that Infected FEMALE Engineers could have given Birth to some Deacon Related Organisms and maybe those Chest Busted Cryo-Pod Engineers are Females?

But also to consider is the Neomorphs... and so something related to the Black Goo infection could have in some Engineers created similar Organisms to them and maybe they had been what the Engineers in Prometheus had been running from.

This was the Beauty of Prometheus and its ambiguity in that you can come up with more than ONE theory, that is supported or discounted by the evidence just as much as the next theory would be.

"That’s why he was angry when he woke up and plotted his ship to earth."

The Last Engineer in Alien Engineers was ANGRY when he was awoken, because he was infected, and being awoken by the Humans had Sentenced him to his Inevitable Fate so he kicks off.... then gets into the Space Jockey Chair and set off to EARTH but gets Chest Busted as he is doing so and crashes on LV-426 and Chest Bursts the ULTRAMORPH

I will talk another time about our Angry Engineer in Prometheus and the Jesus Connection.

Indeed DK  it was kind of a Easter Egg, a Nod to HR Giger and his Mural and also used as a DNA link to ALIEN.

So it maybe never had any Real Purpose...

Starbeast was the Original Idea and it had Murals that showed the Ritualistic Procreation and Life-Cycle of their Species.

I will have to go and read Jon Spaights works again, i think it mentions Murals but does not offer any descriptions, and i am certain that Lindeloff's works also do-not describe such a MURAL

So it leaves us with Potential Clues that are not intended as Clues, so many theories we work on could be all based on NOTHING!  But then such Clues help to make many Debates and Discussions.

If Prometheus had NO Mural or Fresco's then i think the Xenomorph Link would have been less obvious and also many of the debates about Prometheus would have been much more limited.

ONE thing that Bugs me is we have to QUESTION did they have any actual IDEA how they would explain/explore the Xenomorph Connection back from Inception of the Prequels... It appears with Alien Engineers there was clues to suggest that had a IDEA of where it came from, even if they never intend to SPOON Feed it.

A lot has changed as the years go by, that we had to wonder if they actually had any SOLID idea how to Explore/Explain it SHOULD they ever consider to do so....  but it appears they May-Not have any real Idea... not something they could STICK too......  which then led to the CURVE-BALL in Alien Covenant...   The GOO is now a McGuffin and likely wont get any information on its Origin, or indeed LV-223 and the Xenomorph is the Creation of a Crazy Robot who wants to be a Creator himself.

There is a potential Problem with what i have put though, which also applies to your idea Gavin...

If we look at the GOO as having a Purpose to Pass on Xenomorph-like Traits, then we have a Conflict with the SACRIFICIAL GOO i have viewed the GOO just as its indicated in Jon Spaights work (Scarabs) i am also drawn to some Engineers coming into contact with something related to the Xenomorph and they witnessed something similar to the Xenomorph Born from a Engineer who came into contact with a related Organism (they did not create) they became obsessed with this Organism (makes more sense in context to Alien Engineers where our Engineers lost the ability to Procreate/Give Birth to Life) and thus the MURAL was them Worshiping something they Sacrificed to Create the Black Goo...

HOWEVER.... if we Ignore the above and run with a idea like you Propose GAVIN, then we have to explain the Sacrificial Goo..   which then Logically i think we could consider the Engineers Ancestors ONCE they broke away from the Bondage of their STARBEAST Masters... began to then Re-Engineer their Technology (Derelicts) and Managed to Unlock the Secrets of the Black Goo and CREATE a alternative Version that would obtain/use Engineer DNA instead of Xenomorph/Starbeast DNA

for the Purpose of Created Life in their image.... maybe eventually Humans, and we could Ponder then.... Was we being created as Bio-Weapons/Army that could be used by the Engineers against their STARBEAST Masters should they Return?

This certainly could unfold into a Multiple WAR OF THE WORLDS Scenario..  would make Humans the WOLF of the Engineers.

"All of this heavily suggests, to me at least that the Xenomorph is not a weapon,"

If we go by your theory in you last post Gavin, then indeed it would make the Original Juggernauts (Derelict) basically just the same Covenant Ship.   Where we simply Swap   Walter/Space Jockey and Embryo's/Eggs

This does not appear to be the case due to the continuing nature of the Franchise as far as how it changes things as it goes along.... The Status Quo  since ALIEN until the Prequels was these are BIO-WEAPONS where the Question was WHAT relationship are they to the Space Jockey?  is he on a Military Mission and they are his Bio-Weapon Cargo? If so WHY and who are his Race in Conflict with.

There was enough ambiguity to look at the Xenomorph as the Weyland-Yutani Company did in that it could be used as a BIO-WEAPON and so it means we could ponder if the Space Jockey had actually discovered it and saw its potential as a Weapon rather than to actually had Purposely Created it as such. 

The Prequels began to answer this... which i will make a Topic Soon about, in that it had given us this Creators/Gods Plot, but then how these Creators then wanted to Destroy is and the Xenomorph was ONE of the Weapons they would use... it was indicated in Alien Engineers, these Engineers maybe discovered something (they did not Create) and used this as Experiments to Create various Xenomorph Organisms.

Prometheus changed this a little, only as far as to make it a bit more ambiguous and then we continued with Alien Covenant with a somewhat U-TURN in the Space Jockey Event and Creation of the the Eggs.  Which i think has NOT settled well with the MAJORITY of Fans..

Which now brings me back to your post GAVIN...

So we arrive at a point now where the whole reveals and story behind the Xenomorph and Engineers, is JUST NOT anywhere near as Surreal of Alien as most would have been thinking about before the Prequels got made.

A Plot Similar to what you have mentioned, is also something that matches what potentially HR Gigers Concept work for Alien had.... and also links to the Original Idea about our STARBEAST from the Original idea by Dan O'Bannon that lead to ALIEN

The Concept works for Prometheus/Alien Engineers are NOT Canon as we have not been directly shown these Engineers discovering some Alien Organism that Does-not resemble the HR Giger works or anything from ALIEN but does resemble a few things shown in the Concept work for STARBEAST

This leaves it open to EXPLORE a Plot more related to STARBEAST and indeed one of the ideas i had for how i was going to handle Prometheus 2/3 which would be similar to what you have put GAVIN ;)

Introduction of a ALIEN Race that is Intelligent but FAR more ALIEN than we can comprehend as far as Appearance and Technology.   That have Created the Original Bio-Mechanical Ships, where they USE Humanoid beings in a Symbiotic Relationship but then we can wonder WHAT does these Pilots gain from this?

There are a number of theories and Mythos that suggest Mankind was created by the Gods purely to Serve, to be used for Labor and in Return we get some limited Knowledge passed on and allowed to live somewhat Civilized Lives.....  other Sci-Fi related plots that show the Egyptian Gods created/used Mankind for the same Purpose. (Inc Star Gate Series).  THIS could fit with the Prometheus Plot and Philosophy  and we see David/Walter are created to Serve...   and so this THEME/PLOT could extend all the way to the Ancestors of the Engineers, being used as Symbiotic beings to help the STARBEAST Procreate its Species.  At some point these Slave Race Rebel and Overthrow their would be STARBEAST Gods... and then pursue their own Creation Agenda leading to the Engineers.

so with this REVEAL we could go back to giving a more ALIEN twist to the Franchise while still keeping with the Prometheus Theme/Ethos

I think the Xenomorph has to be accepted as a Creation, and the Deacon also as another Creation from the Black Goo and what ever.....   But i think it leaves it open to INTRODUCE that there was a Related Organism that shares a lot of Aesthetic with the Xenomorph and that this Organism is Ancient/Advanced and somewhat Civilized, but their Agenda/Purpose would seem Sinister to Mankind...   But maybe their Purpose is NOT Sinister just Natural... 

When we Fish the Millions and Millions of Fish we consume, when we keep Chickens and kill them to consume are we consider CRUEL because we are killing another Life-Form?

So indeed i feel going this route would be a WAY FORWARD it then opens up the avenue to see HOW the ancestors to the Engineers came to be.

*A Race Created by these STARBEAST Gods?

*A Organism Discovered but then Engineered/Evolved to become the more Intelligent Ancestors of the Engineers by these STARBEAST Gods?

*A Organism Discovered that were very Primitive like Cave-men that had the Potential become the more Intelligent Ancestors of the Engineers by the teachings of these STARBEAST Gods?

*A Race who were Dying on a Dying World, that were SAVED by these  STARBEAST Gods?

Which ever of the ABOVE the Ancestors of the Engineers, could have then OWED the STARBEAST Gods a LIFE-DEBT and this would be the requirement of them to Serve them to AID with the STARBEASTS Procreation.

This revealed as the Ancient Past and Origins would bring back that little something VERY ALIEN that we had in ALIEN that has been Lost during the Prequels.

I guess David is going to lead them back to planet 4 and make them peep into the dormant eggs still waiting for Mother.

Or not?

David “What do you desire”

217 “Well firstly, we’ll need the location of the planet you left poor ole’ Walter on”, “For some strange reason the ships logs have been wiped...You wouldn’t know anything about that would ya?”

David doesn’t respond

217 “Thought so”

David “May I inquire why you are in need of my brother? …..Maybe I can help…. in his absence?”

Long silence as colonist 217 mulls it over.

217 “Little harm in telling you….Your ‘brother’ has a special talent, bought and paid for...Hypersleep ghosting...He gets the cypher codes, bank numbers, naughty memories and all sorts of good stuff, rips ‘em from your sleeping folks minds”,   ”You’d be surprised what little old ladies and rich gents pay for such stuff”

David “I see…”

Weyland “No son...let him finish…”

217 “We’ve probed about half the colony…..about 6 months worth of data is with Walter...all encrypted….See, I don’t trust my own mother with such jank….But I do trust Walter”

David “And when you reach Origae six?”

217 “Not going to orange guy six...We’ll be long gone by then…” , “Enough questions......Now, Mr. David tell us just how you came to be aboard this vessel?”

David “My father and I joined an expedition to find alien life. We ventured on a hostile alien world, where my father perished…”

217 “What a minute..hold on there...you telling me your daddy died on some planet other than Mars?!” , “Mother bring up the holo of Peter Weyland, of Weyland corp fame, his official wake and funeral”

A 3D representation displays a lavish, stately production. It shows Meredith Vickers, David and upper Weyland management grieving over the body of Peter Weyland.

Weyland “This is my doing David. The company and I agreed this was the best solution if I didn’t survive the expedition”

217 “That’s enough…” The holo stops playing,  “So this was all staged and your papa actually died seeking little green men?!” , ”This is big…”

David could see the dollar signs in his eyes.

I read somewhere that the mural really had no deep meaning at all and that it was little more than a prop. I will link if I can dig it up.

Some 2 hours later....

217 “Welcome back…”

David is laying on a table. He has full movement of his body.

217 “We’ve decided to let you help us”

David “...Why..do I..”

217 “Feel so weak?...So under-powered? Well, we got you set at 5%...That’s all the power we’re gonna give you”

David struggles to sit up.

217 “You see…..Your old man never trusted any of you tin men....built in a lot of safeguards”

David achieved a sitting posture.

217 “You didn’t actually think you had control did ya?!..They were going to Just let you take over?”

David looked defeated. 217 Stared at him for a long moment.

217 “Yeah...I guess you did...Walter had the same notion….”

David “..Why should I help you?”

217 “Because I’ve neural netted 20 of your colony buddies...One thought from me and they burn up...Poof! One at a time of course...And if I die...They all die...comprende?”

David “Yes, perfectly, I would not want their deaths on my hands. I will do as you command”

217 “Now we’re getting somewhere…”

With Prometheus the "last engineer" was revealed to wear a bio-mechanical suit virtually identical to the appearance of the Space Jockey in Alien to pilot the Juggernaut, a biomechanical spacecraft virtually identical to the derelict craft the Space Jockey "landed" on LV-426.

This simple comparison alone infers that the technology of the Juggernaut is neither Engineer nor Space Jockey and that the biomechanical "flight suit" that comes from the pilot's chair is able to adapt any size of pilot.

If we view the Juggernauts as living biomechanical organisms, the purpose of the chair and its flight suit would be symbiotic in nature (think Farscape's Moya), whereas the aesthetic appearance of the Juggernauts, their apparent purpose (to carry Xenomorph cargo), and Gigers mural (mentioned by BigDave) heavily suggests the Juggernauts are of the Xenomorph race.

In addition to this, if we look at the makeup of the Black Pathogen - a nano-AI-virus, and its apparent effects in Prometheus and Alien: Covenant, which seems to mutate anything it contaminates with Xenomorph traits (Fifield's original mutation, the Hammerpedes acidic blood, the neomorph spore sacs, the Deacon etc.). This seems to suggest that the Engineers and the Space Jockeys are being coerced into spreading the Xenomorph onto viable worlds.

All of this heavily suggests, to me at least that the Xenomorph is not a weapon, nor a creation but the prime antagonist of the franchise, the dark gods at the top of the hierarchy, as the mural in Prometheus would seem to suggest. 

We have also assumed that if unleashed on a viable world the Xenomorph would eventually exhaust its supply of hosts and die off, leaving only their eggs. Considering how adaptive the Xenomorph appears to be and the makeup of the Black Pathogen, maybe or assumption was misconceived. What if, when the supply of external hosts run low the Xenomorph is able to propagate by other means (a King Alien maybe) and as the length of their occupation grows unimpeded the newly born Xenomorphs become less feral and aggressive (much like the idea not implemented in Alien), becoming intelligent, sentient - the aforementioned dark gods, and the original, true Xenomorphs.

David regains consciousness . He is unable to move his lower body. He can see and hear colonist 217 and another man.

217 “Back on line I see”

David “...Who are you and why am I subdued”

217 “Who I am is unimportant…..David”

David “You are confused, my name is Walter”

The man smiles. He approaches David and extinguishes his cigarette against David's cheek.

217 “I read your codes...Your name is David Weyland ..born Planitia shipyards Mars…”

David “May I ask how you…?”

217 “My little gadget? Neat piece of work. Yutani tech...best thing I ever stole.”

David “ahh...A thief”

He stares at David for a long uncomfortable silence….and finally speaks

217 “I’ll let that go for now. I might need you….. and by the way, I’m asking the questions”

The second man is busy working..but turns around long enough to speak.

2nd man “Ask him”

217 “How you’re aboard this ship i’ll save for later...Right now I want to know the location of  Walter”

David “Walter is not aboard the ship”

217 “I can goddamned see that!”

David “....He is on another planet...some distance from here.”

2nd man “That’s not good”

217 “Shut the hell up….”

The man uses the ‘gadget’ to switch David off.

2nd man “What are we going to do? Walter’s got all the data…”

217 “Yeah..I know...tough situation….”

@ignorantGuy

Yep!

Just a joke ;) as there was a UK TV Series based in the BLACK COUNTRY that was also called Raised by Wolves, with Wolves being the Nickname for the Local Football/Soccer Team.... the City being Wolverhampton ;)

I will add i had only seen ONE episode and some of the Actors are not even Black Country and do a worse job of Black Country than what Noomi Rappace did with Queens English ;)

Mind you some in the Black Country dont consider Wolverhampton to be True Black Country anyway, its on the outer skirts of the Black Country ;)

So i thought it would be FUN to post it here ;)

"How did David make the Ovomorphs in Covenant? With Shaw's eggs and manipulation of the black goo, correct?"

I think its evident that David had Created the Xenomorph via experimenting and cross Hybridization with the Black Goo and its effects on various forms of Native Life on Planet 4.   The Black Goo has the ability to be used as  a Hybrid Tool, the Concept was easier originally (Jon Spaights Nano-Scarabs).

Engineer consumes Sacrificial Goo/Scarabs, this breaks him down Molecule by Molecule and the resulting Material is infected with some kind of Mutagenic Pathogen, the Mutagen consumes the DNA/Traits of the Engineer, it then carries this DNA/Traits and passes it onto whatever LIFE it comes into contact with... Passing on the Engineers DNA to said Organisms while also Keeping/Evolving the Organisms best Traits.

Engineer broken down by Sacrificial Substance, becomes a Mutagenic Substance that passes his DNA/Traits on to create a Hybrid....   This Substance + Primate would create a Primate/Engineer Hybrid and THUS our Ancestors.

I can assume the Sacrificial Substance + Wolf would make a Cocktail that would pass on Wolf DNA/Traits which if this infects a HUMAN we would get like a WEREWOLF!

Replace WOLF at Sacrificial Stage with a Cat and we end up with THUNDERCATS, replace Wolf with a Turtle and we end up with TMNT!

Bare this in mind..... and we can see the Mural is the Tribute to something they Created/Came into contact with, that they then SACRIFICED to create the Black Goo that then passes on the DNA/Traits of the Organism in the Mural.

Bare all the above in MIND and see the GOO as a Tool to Manipulate/Cross Hybrid Organic DNA.   Sacrificing a Wolf/Human Hybrid  and the resulting cocktail infects a Turtle/Human Hybrid and what we end up with is... IN THEORY..  

A Organism that is 50% Human, 25 Wolf and 25% Turtle.  If we then Sacrifice this Organism with the GOO and its broken down Cocktail is applied to a CAT then the Cat would be 50% Cat, 25% Human, 12.5% Wolf and 12.5% Turtle.. IN THEORY...

Now if we look at this and ASSUME i am correct, we can see David can use the Goo to create a all manner of Hybrids and then Mix/Experiment with those Hybrids, trying to Merge/Obtain what ever Traits he wants in Engineering a Perfect Organism.

We NOW need to go back to Basics... what does David know about the Black Goo prior to getting his HEAD Torn off?  He had noticed in context to the Xenomorph... that via the GOO given to Holloway, it had allowed Dr Shaw to Create LIFE and what we got was the TRILOBITE which was basically a kind of Face-Hugger, a Human/Face Huger like Hybrid.

IF we had David wanting to discover the outcome of this (if we assume he never got to witness the Deacon) then he would know in ORDER to replicate the Trilobite, he has to ponder HOW it made Dr Shaw create it. 

Which means.. EITHER

1) Holloways infected Sperm, impregnates Dr Shaws Dormant Eggs to produce the Hybrid Fetus.

2) Holloway acted only as a Vessel to pass on the Black Goo Pathogen like a Sexually Transmitted Disease, and the Pathogen traveled from Holloway to Dr Shaws Dormant Eggs to produce the Hybrid Fetus.

3) As Above... (Sexually Transmitted) but the Pathogen/Mutagen does-not infect any Eggs, but a single component or merging components (Eye-Worms) arrive in Dr Shaws Womb... and uses her Womb to incubate..

By Virtue of the Umbilical Cord and Embryonic Sack i think we can RULE-OUT Option 3

So David... if he wanted to replicate the Trilobite would consider trying WHAT the Goo does when directly infecting Dr Shaws Egg Cells, and also he may need some Humanoid Sperm (Engineers) to infect and then try that on Dr Shaws Egg Cells... we can assume BOTH of these may produce something similar to the Trilobite.

David would also have witnessed what the Spores had create (Neomorph) and so ARMED with Neomorph like Organisms and Deacon like Organisms... David has a basis to then use the GOO to conduct various Hybrid Experiments, to combine those Organisms with Traits of various other Organisms on Planet 4 until he has Perfected his Creation.

IF we assume David has then created like Small Trilobite/Face Hugger like Organisms... maybe for Storage of these Organisms... he tries to Hybrid them with a Organism that has EGGS as in Eggs that are laid that can then suspend the Embryos inside.

In Davids workshop/Notes he has Studied Native Mermaids Purse's now these are Egg Cases that contain the Embryo's of certain Organisms like Sharks, Skates and Chimaeras (Ghost Sharks)  so Potentially David could have seen the Mermaids Purse as a Desired Trait to apply to his Creation to ALLOW it to have some Protective Case to Store the Fragile/Growing Embryo that becomes the Face Hugger.

And so using the GOO , David could utilize the Traits of the Mermaids Purse to provide a Casing/Egg Protection for his Face Hugger Type Stage.

I believe this is what Davids notes are showing, and that he uses the GOO as i have outlined above, to Mix/Evolve his Deacon/Neomorph Hybrids with Traits of other Life-forms until he has achieved his Perfect Xenomorph and Life-Cycle.

He could then use the GOO to obtain the Final Products Traits and then INFECT Dr Shaws Egg Cells to Produce his Xenomorphs.

"I still believa the Space Jockey is a different,  possibly higher race to the engineers. "

I think the route they was taking was the Space Jockey is just a Suit and inside is a Engineer.... this was prior to Alien Covenant as at this time the Space Jockey was a Ancient Event..

The Space Jockey Suits in Prometheus look more closer to the Space Jockey Concept Works, than a Skeleton...

There are a FEW anomalies that are left from Prometheus and its reveal about the Engineers and their Bio-Technology.

1) The Size Difference... the Space Jockey would be about 12-13ft Tall if we assume same Proportions of the Suit Upper Half in comparison to our Prometheus ones. We have to remember the Space Jockey Prop is about 16ft Across and we have to take into account the Chair is within that too, the angle of the CHAIR and where the Legs/Feet would go does leave it open for the Space Jockey to be Taller than what would fit in the remaining 14 Ft of the Prop though.  Which leaves us to Estimate the Space Jockey as between 12-15ft.    When working on Jon Spaights Alien Engineers it was revealed the Engineers/Space Jockey as 15ft Tall... when working on Prometheus Draft (Damien Lindeloff's Paradise) this was revised to 12 FT. 

The Problem arose by not using any Special Effects to Portray our Engineers as 10ft+  beings.. this leaves it OPEN for people to debate the Space Jockey/Engineers are not the Same Race.

2) The Color of the Space Jockey compared to the Engineers Suits... this is potentially the bigger FLAW because we are shown those Dead Engineers are 2000 years old yet they look similar to the Pristine Space Jockey suits in the Dark Grey Color.  So the Space Jockey suit would have to have been there for MUCH MUCH longer to Discolor/Bleach to the Bone-Like Color we got in ALIEN.

This leaves it open to Ponder if the Suit is not only Larger, but also a different Color.... unless the Space Jockey has been there for Tens/Hundreds of Thousands of Years, which RS had revealed it HAD-NOT but now with the path of Alien Covenant are we being led to the FACT the Space Jockey is NOT on LV-426 by the events of Alien Covenant in the year 2105?

This again leaves it open to consider could the Space Jockey be revealed as different to the Engineers.

3) Aesthetic Differences there are a few differences in the Space Jockey Suit compared to Engineers suits, which are not related to Size or Color... these are Proportions, the Space Jockey Suit looks a bit more Skeletal, but its Proportions are different.   

The ARMS are longer in comparison, the HEAD is smaller and more sunk in comparison, the SHOULDERS are more Broader, and the RIBCAGE (upper Body) is Wider and Longer/Taller in comparison.

But ALL of these could be put down to a Oversight that is IRRELEVANT they can be explained away to some degree.

Dallas is NO Expert on Biology and what he had Discovered is TRULY ALIEN he  made TWO Assumptions with the Space Jockey.

1) It looks Fossilized, Bones Bent Outwards indicating he thought it was a Fossil/Skeletal Remains.

2) Its looks like its Grown out of the Chair.

He may have been WRONG with the First One, but could he be RIGHT with the Second?  A reveal of the Suits Growing and Mutating could explain the differences in Size/Proportion and Color of the Space Jockey Suits compared to our Engineers.   So his 2ND Assumption could be used as a way to explain away the inconsistencies.

I HOWEVER do hope we get a reveal of another Race, i hope they either Stick with the Space Suit but make the occupant Taller and Less Human, or Reveal a Bio-Mechanical being as what the Space Jockey is.

I think its a case of personnel Opinion and indeed the comments by Dallas (Fossilized, Bones Bent Outwards) with the Skeletal Look of some of the Space Jockey had led many to Speculate it was a SKELETON even inspiring the earlier Comics from the late 80's and early 90's t depict the Space Jockey as the Fossilized Remains of a Alien Race.

The Inception of the idea came from STARBEAST where the Skeletal Remains was found of Giant Alien beings.

When we got to ALIEN and HR Giger came along to design the Space Jockey (as RS was really into his Bio-Mechanical Art) so he came up with a Creation that Blurred the Lines between what is Organic and what is Mechanical.

He ended up submitting the Concept which i have put above, and it looks like some kind of Space Suit, but it could be the remains of a Truly Bio-Mechanical being.. that connects to the Ship/Chair because this being is Part Organic/Part Machine and in this context the remains are more of a Exo-skeleton of some Bio-Mechanical Being like the Xenomorph.

So i think IF it was not a Space Suit then it more likely is a Bio-Mechanical Organism like the Xenomorph (see Concept below) rather than a Elephantine Organic Creature (See Image Below).

But i can see WHY people think it is a Skeleton... i think IF we reveal the Space Jockey to be different, then it would be more fitting if it is a Bio-Mechanical Being like the Xenomorph is rather than a Skeleton of some Organism that Once had Flesh Covering its Bones.

I do think Blomkamps Ideas could be interesting.... the MAIN thing is Re-Introducing the Xenomorph...

With the Franchise we had to wonder WHY the company would Pursue Ripley in ALIEN 3 the only Logical Conclusion is there was NO other way to obtain a Specimen Elsewhere, which means the Derelict and Cargo is DESTROYED and their are NO other Xenomorphs within the Vicinity of Space that Mankind had explored... 

The Prequels Muddy this a little as we know the Xenomorph Origins/Related Organisms had likely Originated on LV-223, there would be remains of them on Planet 4 and likely Origae-6 by the time we get to ALIEN in the year 2122.

So we had to ASK why does the Company choose to only Pursue the Derelict Cargo, which we assume after ALIENS leaves only the Queen that Ripley is Gestating as the ONLY source for the Xenomorph?

Its it likely that those other avenues (Planet 4, Origae-6 and LV-223) are all Eliminated and Bare NO Fruits?

so with Blomkamp he had to look at HOW to introduce the Xenomorph again.... does he go and obtain it from LV-223? or come up with some other WORLD where the Xenomorph could be FOUND?  But exploring these Avenues could have Conflicted with what ever Plans the Prequels could have had.

He could have gone the route that the Derelict was intact... but they would have to then deal with the Derelict and any Xenomorphs that are experimented on and acquired because by the time we get to Alien Resurection, it has to be that there is NONE of those left, leaving only Ripleys DNA as a source to obtain the Xenomorph.

So again potentially conflicting the Franchise..

Which is WHY a Alternative Sequel to ALIENS could had been the answer, and it appears this is what ALIEN 5 ended up looking like, where it would merely offer a FORK in the Road.. where we have TWO Alternative Roads after ALIENS.

Alien 3 ==> Resurrection OR Alien 5 and what ever comes next.

So this could mean accepting ONE means the other Route is NOT Canon... but it could be enjoyed as looking at it as being given TWO Alternatives to Enjoy...

I HOWEVER think they could have done a Literal Alien 5 by following the Same Path as Alien Resurrection... which would be to OBTAIN/EXTRACT the Xenomorph DNA from Ripley 8

During this pursuit it could take many attempts to extract a PURE stand of Xenomorph DNA which leaves room for many Mutations/Hybrids on the way to a PURE Xenomorph and then experiments on this PURE source.

A Plot like this does-not even have to have Ripley 8 it could be set Years after Alien Resurrection and reveal a Sample of her DNA had been obtained either from the Wreckage of the Auriga, or had been obtained before the Auriga Crash... or even from RIPLEY 8 at some point after the events of Alien Resurrection.

This is the PATH i would take with a Alien 5 if they ever chose to do so... i even had expanded on this last year with a Plot i had for such a Alien 5

BigDave ha ha. Not my cup of tea either.

That's the android free tv series for those not interested in synthetics. 

BigDave

I don't know if you are ironic but those are other wolves (series 2 in 2016? produced by Channel 4?).

Just Seen the Trailer for the TV Series Raised by Wolves

I don't think its everyone's Cup of Tea!   including me and its SET only about 5 Miles from ME!!! ;)

I personally think it could be a INTERESTING idea... we need to remember this will in NO SHAPE or form be connected to the Alien Franchise.

You could see HOW it could have been similar to what could have been explored in a AC sequel though, this would depend on what a AC sequel could have been.

The Covenant was  a Colonization mission where 3000 or so Humans (1000 of which are Embryo's) are off to another Earth like World to start  NEW, to escape the rotting Paradise that was ONCE Earth...

Earth would not doubt be in a State of Despair... Over Populated, Technologically Advanced compared to the Times of Antiquity which with that the last 250 years of Industrial Revolution and Particularly the 1900's to Mid 2000's (1900-2050) we have a World with a every Growing Population, Pollution, Waste... if things are not reversed then we could see a Smog Covered Earth that Alien 3 gave us a Glimpse at...

Then we have the Conflicts, Wars over Capital Gain, Fuel, Money and also Religious Conflicts...

Can anyone be blamed for wanting to go off to START AGAIN?  To set up a Colony, learn from the Mistakes Mankind has made over the Centuries and have the Starts of a New Settlement maybe even living by more Basic Ways compared to the Majority of Mankind do now?

This was the Premise of the Covenant Mission... which ONLY came into being connected to the events of ALIEN by Virtue of that Neutrino Blast... had this NOT happened, then in 7.5 years the Covenant would have arrived at Origae-6 and those Colonist would have been able to START AGAIN.

It could be likely that RS Raised by Wolves offers a similar Premise, a Colony Mission to START AGAIN on a Earth-like uninhabited (by Intelligent Life) World.

If we go back to the Covenant Mission, and imagine the SHIP has TWO Androids... and it has say a smaller Colonist Total say 200 and say 500 Embryos... so a Smaller Scale Mission and the SHIP suffered a Mishap on the way where ALL/MOST of the Colonist Die, and all that remains is a Handful or NONE and say HALF the Embryos Survive.

We then assume the TWO Synthetics continue to their Destination and they NOW are tasked with setting up and Raising those Embryo's.  

The Question then is WHAT do the Androids Teach the Humans as they grow up, do they get taught our History, and when these Humans start to learn about our History and Religions, its  a case of HOW do  they deal with these.

While also wondering HOW does a AI deal with Teaching the Colonist about their History, and such things when they KNOW that these Religions and Mythos are False..

In part that makes for a Interesting Story!   The Problem is going this route for a Alien Covenant Sequel would not be VERY Alien.... you could not do these things much Justice while also having to SET-UP the Inevitable connection to ALIEN.

As a Stand-alone Story it could be very Thought Provoking and Interesting, i think in HINDSIGHT the Prometheus Plot and all these Philosophical Themes are a Mistake and they should have given in to the Fan-Boys and gave them ALIENS and ALIENS and revealed the Space Jockey as well a ALIEN race in NO-WAY connected to Mankind..

The Prometheus Plot then made into a Stand-Alone movie.... same Plot.. just NO Weyland, NO Xenomorphs and NO Derelict/Space Jockey looking Ships/Space Suits and it could have been a EPIC Stand Alone Franchise.

I think this Raised by Wolves could be something interesting to take a look at, its not going to please ALIEN fans because its not meant to be a ALIEN movie... and regarding Sci-Fi a lot of Sci-Fi is based around to some degree AI/Robots.. more so than Alien Monsters...  a lot of Sci-Fi does revolve around either Space Travel and what Horrors await, or Technological Advancements and what Hubris they bring.. and the IMPACT on Human Characters.

"More android stuff? I will not watch this one"

Take it your not looking forwards to the Next Terminator installment either ;)

I think it wont hurt to give this one a try, i  know AI is not your Cup of Tea but it maybe provides a idea that would show maybe what RS may have to a degree incorporated into his Alien Prequels.. but without actually affecting any Alien Prequels.

I think the MAIN thing to look out for is to see HOW WELL this show comes across both Visually and also showing us if RS still has what it takes to deliver a interesting Sci-Fi Story.

Because a little Sci-Fi piece like this could give us insight into IF a Alien Franchise Spin of TV Series would actually work.   If the Story to Raised by Wolves is Good, and Visually its a Good Sci-Fi Series, then it gives us hope that a TV Alien Franchise adventure could be Plausible or Not.

It does appear RS may be touching upon some of the things he may have wanted to with a Prometheus Sequel... before he had to Give in to the Fans and make it a ALIEN Prequel.  So maybe this could be a sign that Plans for a Alien Covenant Sequel are CANNED...

Or Potentially if ONE does get made, we could be in for a ALIENS MK2

Hi everyone. Here’s my theory. I love reading everyone elses. I’ve just joined this forum. I’ve been watching Covenant over and ove again recently on 4K, it’s amazing. Not sure how many times I’ve seen Prometheus. Both amazing movies that you want to watch over and over.

I think there was a early version of what we may know as the Xenomorph on the Engineer outpost planet in Prometheus. The Aliens in Covenant were perfections created by David. I don’t think any retcon has happened like others may say.

My assumption and theory come from the following:

1. The visual record of the Engineers running from something. They were running from a Xenomorph

2. David found the “green alien saliva goo” that we all know and love on the control systems of the door which opened the prayer / missile chamber room. The same room we find the jesus/xenomorph and cracked green looking egg. The alien chased the engineers to the prayer room.

3. The crew of the Prometheus stumble upon a pile of dead engineer bodies, and one of those bodies had its rib cage cracked open from the inside. (This means there were some form of face huggers around). And this also means an alien was born. Whether or not that was the same alien(s) chasing the other engineers remains to be seen

4. The Engineers did seed life on earth, and they were about to go back to destroy earth when things went wrong and got that engineer ship stuck. That’s why he was angry when he woke up and plotted his ship to earth. He was supposed to be there 2000 years ago. I think the fact they end up killing Jesus was the last straw for the Engineers and they decided to wipe out the planet. Or. Earth was just an experiment for them anyway and he was going to wipe them out either way. The engineers are also literally engineered to be soldiers by the “monk” engineers. The “monk” engineers are actually the real race who created the “space jockey”.

Please continue the story MonsterZero

He must have used a remote control he bought from some insider from Weyland-Yutani, the same he used to get out of the pod. He said it himself earlier:

Man "If you have enough money, you can get anything your little heart desires, you should try it sometime"

Ooh this is interesting. Reminded me of David blowing into the Neomorph's face. So there seems to be something in the cigarette that interferes with David's electronics.

You're not going to tease an entire story one post at a time, are you? That would be very....David.

David "Mother, Where is colonist 217? He is not in his assigned Hypersleep chamber"

MUTHUR "Hypersleep chamber 217 is currently occupied"

David "Not to argue with you, but Hypersleep chamber 217 is most assuredly empty"

Davids scans the ship for life forms and finds a human, then locates him on the monitor. The human is leaning against the bulkhead smoking a cigarette.

Taken a back, he ventures to meet passenger 217....

David finds the human. The man is on his second cigarette.

David  "What are you doing?"

Man "Oh! hi Walter!...Just taking a smoke break..."

David "That is not allowed and ....how did you release yourself?"

Man "If you have enough money, you can get anything your little heart desires, you should try it sometime"

David "You need to return to your chamber immediately"

Man "Nah, Gonna finish this pack then do some exploring.."

Weyland "Careful son, something is not right..."

David approaches the man. The man blows smoke at David. David is about to grasp him. When suddenly David loses consciousness. He falls stiffly to the floor.

Man "Sorry Walter...You made me do it...."

Hey, this sounds great!

Not sure how i'll watch, I haven't had cable TV in decades.....

This could be a really good show. I like the concept itself although it would have taken the Alien series off course imo. While many of us likely look forward to the show and that it will be its own thing, we will know not so deep down that it's about David. And that is fine. Bring it on RS!

This still doesn't look like a guy in a space suit to me. Maybe the engineers mimicked that shape with their suit, maybe that is a part of the engineers mythology, their Prometheus stealing the fire from the gods and failing to deliver, but I don't see the suit in that picture, no matter how hard I try. 

I know what Ridley Scott said and on this one he did not convince me. He didn't try very hard either.

I still believa the Space Jockey is a different,  possibly higher race to the engineers. 

More android stuff? I will not watch this one

The theme might be interesting (what it means to be human) but if they will add AI things into it then no thanks. I think that the visuals might be good since that is what he is very good at but AI is not very interesting to me for the moment, in part because of AC.

If this is similar to what we would have gotten in a sequel to AC then I am glad that it is dead (at least that is what it seems right now).

Oh another android story, I will pass on this one. I think that Alien covenant over-did the android thing so I am simply not interested. To me the human story is first, the robots/synthetics/whatever come way after. Alien Covenant made me less interested in the android thing even though technology and where it might take us is interesting.

“The premise of androids leading a colony is exactly the kind of thing that Scott said he was planning for the sequel to Covenant.”

*Sigh*

Another movie that is 50% about the androids, no thanks. I have no interest in watching that.

“Now, there would be some Alien connection and some more classic horror and Alien franchise elements inserted.”

The question is how much that some is? Would it be like 10% 20% To me I need more than interesting monsters for it to work and AC was a David movie although there were monsters in it. Just because it says alien connection doesn’t mean that it will be good.

“So the show should be pretty outstanding, but it kind of tells David's story.”

I am done with the David story, give me survival horror that puts well done human characters first or forget it (in the context of the Alien franchise).

This one looks interesting, one of the things that I like about the Xenos is that they can be done in different ways. Maybe they could do a comic book or a novel based on it?

I am not really sure if we need another Ripley movie, I would like to see new characters but they must be well done, otherwise we will have another disappointment like the prequels. They could make new characters that are not connected to old ones.

@Dark Nebula

I certainly think its possible... we DONT see the Space Jockey Legs...

Ive had a look at the Space Jockey and i have come up with what i feel is quite accurate to the Proportions... the Legs are a UNKNOWN maybe they could be more Bulky? But i also considered where would these Legs Fit in the Chair and taking into account SPACE for them to fit inside, so i am not sure the Legs would be much more Bulky.

The Plot indeed  could be similar to what he may have planned in Alien Covenants Sequel...

If you was David and you wanted to Give Mankind a Second Chance, as the Covenant was trying to escape Earth and what that place had become, and to make a NEW Start.

We could ponder "what kind of a World, would David Create" as RS had mentioned...  and its similar to what i was intending with my Alien Covenant sequel Alien Ascension.

But the reveal here of CHILDREN... is interesting, because if we assume David would give Mankind a Second Chance, then he would be cautious of all the KNOWLEDGE that Mankind has, because its Knowledge and Upbringing that Determine who we are... and REBELLION is a Large theme with the Prequels... Rebellion Stems from Knowledge..

IF David had gone on to Set-Up the Colony and he had intended to impose some of his RULE over them, he would Face Rebellion from some Colonist!

However... IF he only raised those Embryo's and Children then he would have been able to MOLD any Rules/Beliefs upon the Humans raised from Childhood.

If we ASSUME this is Davids plan, he would have Charade as Walter to awaken some Colonist, get the Colony Set up... then DO-AWAY with those Colonist... ONCE the Colony is Set Up to Support a Habitat and then Raise the Young upon this NEW Colony... that makes PERFECT sense from Davids POV.

With RS not getting any younger and any ALIEN movies on HOLD... maybe RS is taking some of the ideas he had with the Sequels to Alien Covenant and applying them to his TV Series.  RAISED BY WOLVES.

We can all agree i think that PROMETHEUS was a ambitious and Bold Movie Plot... that as a STAND ALONE movie... if it never had Ships/Space Suits that looked like the Space Jockey/Derelict, if it never had as much Xenomorph DNA in the Organisms... and if it never featured the WEYLAND company, then as a Stand Alone Ambitious Sci-Fi Movie who knows how GREAT it could have gone on to becoming.

But as Prometheus was connected to the ALIEN Franchise, and it did not ANSWER where the Xenomorph came from and HOW those Eggs got onto the Derelict and it never had Xenomorphs and some fans were Disappointed the Space Jockey was just a 8ft Tall Humanoid Race...

Which lead to some Fan Pleasing Attempt with Alien Covenant and the resulting Mess....

its nice to see RS able to do a Sci-Fi TV Series where he can touch on some of the ideas he maybe had for the Alien Franchise but not showcase them in a NONE-ALIEN Franchise movie where he NOW had complete Freedom to Explore what ever he wants and be Restricted and also having to not worry about upsetting Alien Franchise Fans...  with his Vision.

I wish him LUCK with this Project and look forwards to seeing it ;)

Dark Nebula that is awesome! Chubby legs are of putting to say the least!

"he was alluding to it being borrowed or stolen"

Yes. I'd love to see the planet of the bio-mecanoids!

A planet where a trillion Engineers perished in the battle....They say the corpses are 100 meters deep in spots.

Weapons were useless against the biomechs they had to use brute force...just like an ant colony....Billions of Engineers in giant swarms ..rolling waves of them pulling and subduing the biomechs......It was glorious! 

"Raised By Wolves has been ordered straight to series at TNT and the synopsis is: "...two androids tasked with raising human children on a mysterious virgin planet. As the burgeoning colony of humans threatens to be torn apart by religious differences, the androids learn that controlling the beliefs of humans is a treacherous and difficult task."

This indeed is similar to the Proposed Alien Covenant sequel plan i had last year, which was Alien: Ascension where David would indeed Set up the Colony, and he would be seen as a Savior of those Colonist (he explains the Deaths of the others was a Sabotage attempt by Tennessee)  it would be then that David leads the Colonist to a New Set of Rules and Guides, that form some New kind of Religious Cult, in that these Colonist take on-board a lot of Religious Beliefs and that they can START anew.... but stick to some Rules/Guidelines... so David would have been similar to Mosses from the Biblical Account, while also taking on a King David role.  David also giving some Warnings like GOD did to Adam/Eve about passing a Forbidden Place/Tree  but when these are not Heeded they lead to Death, and eventually Discovery of Davids Secret beyond the Forbiden River Styx

I was drawn to this Plot Idea off RS comments about "what kind of World would David Create" and about the Next Movie would be more about AI and not the Xenomorph.

Seems Raised By Wolves  is RS whole idea, and he had in the Advent alluded to Lambs and the Wolf... so maybe RS knows a AC Sequel is NOT going to happen and so he has taken some of the ideas he had, and Fashioned them into this Project.

I look forwards to see it ;)

"The Planet 4 Engineers are humans that have been "genetically optimized" but intellectually stunted to remain at the level of which they were when they were taken from Earth, as in pre - 0 A.D."

This is a observation that a number of people had made... it depends on Interpretation, a interesting NOTE is the Original Prometheus Plot that came from Alien Engineers, where a Race of Humanoids had Evolved themselves beyond Procreation... in this kind of Plot the Sacrificial Rituals could have been a way of OBTAINING a Humanoid Organism to Procreate with... ONCE they had obtained a Humanoid to allow for their Species to ONCE again Procreate (hence the Hybrid Human/Engineer appearance) then maybe MANKIND would No-Longer be required.

But RS has said those Planet 4 Engineers are the Originals and so the Prometheus Ones are not (Sacrificial/LV-223) which seems to suggest those beings are Creations of the Planet 4 Engineers or by their own Creators, or are a Genetically Evolved Sub Species of the Engineers.

But as this is not shown On-Screen then those comments by RS can be removed as Canon...  I think we need to also Consider what is meant by PARADISE?

If we look at Paradise as in the Place where the Garden of Eden was located, and then ACCEPT that the Biblical Account was taken from a Actual Event in the Franchise, but that Paradise is not a Location on Earth but Planet 4, then in context to the Garden of Eden/Cradle of Creation... then that City on Planet 4 and HOW those Engineers are kept how they appear and their Culture/Civilization does fit with how Adam/Eve were intended to had Lived out their Lives before the FALL.

I am drawn to these beings being used and collected as Sacrificial Stock to perform the Seeding of Worlds and that the Breaking Down and Storing of the Seeding Mutagen into Urns as opposed to just allowing the Engineer to Fall into a Waterfall, is actually a Evolution of the Seeding Ritual.  But thats just what i am drawn too.

I guess WAYNE HAAG is a Brain we would like to PICK!

Not only for HOW/WHY he is drawn to conclude the Technology does not belong/originate with the Engineers... but also WHY did he produce this Early Concept work, which was based off Steve Messings similar Concept too.

When i look at these and remember the Sources information about Mankind playing a Bigger Role... then it does get me Pondering what may have been?

While none of this apart from the Cathedral Itself made it into ALIEN COVENANT i do wonder WHY it Originally had such Murals on the Outside..... could this had been a Enigma for AC just as the Frescos in Prometheus was for that movie?  But like those.. they may have no baring/connection to the END PRODUCT.