Comments (Page 327)

Great artwork!

Maybe I will buy the book, we’ll see. I would guess that Giger would have been proud.

BD:

Well it can be scary if you do not over-expose it and make relatable human characters. This is also a reason why I said a bunch of posts back that they need to make the Engineers scary as F since we know less about them than the Xeno. Keeps the Xenos in the background, it worked in Alien since we did not see a lot of it and since its origins were unknown at the time.

By the way as far as the Engineer going berserk is concerned (Prometheus) it could have worked if we got a bit more background and would have had better human characters. The idea in itself seems alright to me at least so yeah you can do something new. This could be frightening and not be something directly Xeno-ish but it has got to be done right so that could be possible.

The reason why the Xeno was not scary in AC is that they just threw it in just to have it there (probably because the studio told them to do so). You could see that Scott did not give a damn about it. Keep it in the shadows, less is more in this case (as weird as that expressions might sound).

How you introduce it? Take the Hammerpede as an example, the way it got into Milburn’s mouth was icky so it worked for me at least. Creating disgust could work probably more than genuine terror from the Xeno.

P and AC did not work that well since we did not get relatable human characters but had they managed to do so then I think that fear thing could have worked.

“But its HOW does this Conflict with the Franchise... If Humans go down to the Derelict/Outpost discover the Place these Xenomorphs are Stored on and Shipped to the Cargo Bays.  Awaken a Space Jockey... this Space Jockey Gets Killed.... But he Alerts others who COME in the Next Installment and NOT have this conflict with the Original Franchise.” - BD

Well, it would have been a lot better than having a story about David.

“Which is the BIGGER Picture Ridley Scott had attempted rather than just Xenomorhs, Eggs, Chest Busters etc.”  - BD

Don’t care since it was made in such a bad way (I mainly mean AC). His focus was on David first and the humans second, which is the opposite of how it should be. The Engineers are a lot more interesting than David. I am sorry but this direction that they took AC into is just bad. I do not care about the robot thing and also they should have had better human characters and have had more about the Engineers and let us know a bit more about them. Like with the Xeno we do not need to know everything about them, but just some bits and pieces so we can sit down and think about it just like the Xeno after Alien made people think.


“FITS with the Theme/Reasons for such a Bio-Weapon that Ridley Scott wished to Explore.” - BD

I do not care about the themes if we do not get relatable human characters and have a focus on robots. It is like if you are at a hockey game and there are two teams that you want to see how they do and if both play like crap then what reason is there to stay? This is how it is with David (team one) and the themes (team two), I do not really care. Prometheus is a movie that I can watch a bit now and then although it was months since I watched it last. Covenant is a movie that just makes me disappointed so no thanks.

“… by a Android who wishes to NOT only Perfect the Killing Machine/Bio-Weapon but also wishes to CREATE for himself.” - BD

Which is crappy as F. The focus on the android is bad and it is too close to humans. I understand the theme but I do not like how it was executed on the screen. As far as expanding the franchise they should have had more about the Engineers and better human characters, hell the Engineers were interesting so they took the absolutely wrong direction with AC.

Having the company doing some shady things why not? It could have been interesting but don’t let us know too much about it. I would rather have watched that than a movie about an android that gets all the shine so to speak.

I am not even sure if the movie is about the Xeno, to me it is about humans that get into situations that they are not prepared for and bad things happen. The Xeno could have been replaced with what ever monster if it would have been as effective but the focus in Alien 1-3 were at the humans so it is really about the human journey and not the monster. The monster is just a symbol for our fears which is the way it should be the way I look at it.

“THIS is where the AI Aspect comes into play....” - BD

OK but the whole focus is on the robot so that is not the least interesting to me. I understand what you are trying to say but the way it comes off on screen is boring.

“THESE are the things Ridley Scott was very interested in...” - BD

Fine for him but let him do so in other movies. Not in the alien franchise because it does not work and the proof is that AC and Prometheus to a lesser degree have been disappointments in characters and in profits. Themes over characters does not work for me at least. He and Fox have had the whole prioritization wrong thus one average movie and one that is mostly crappy.

“… or they feel its a distraction from the ALIEN Franchise which should be about XENOMORPHS” - BD

Nah, it is not like that to me. The main thing is that it is about relatable human characters that get into situations that they are not prepared to handle. Even when Luke was in the snow blizzard that worked because he was relatable and he was in a situation that he was not prepared for and almost died (Wampa and shitty weather). Replace Luke with relatable human characters in Alien and the Wampa with the Xeno or other related monsters and you have the same thing in two different movies that have things in common, you see? My point is that if SW would have had bad characters it would also have failed (OT) but it managed to float while AC did not. 10000 Xenos are not needed but interesting characters are.

“It was the execution of Davids Arc/Character that Disappointed, compared to the Pinocchio Boy of Prometheus .  And as DAVID is a Main Character, people just struggle to connect with a NONE Human Character but more so the way David came across.”

Do not forget that to me at least this was a reason combined with human characters that were not well written or executed. This is why AC does not work for me but I gave it a chance so I know what I am talking about other than to judge it on what some friend said. By the way, I do not care about a story why David became the way he did because I have lost interest in him although I can still watch him in P but do not continue it. I do not care about the robot thing, get rid of that and then we might get some improvement.

IgnorantGuy: OK I understand

Lone: Yeah but that seems to be because the robots were the only ones that they cared to make a story about. This robot-centric kind of movie is not what an alien movie should be about. Just go away with that shi--. Exactly they need to care as much about the humans as they do about the androids or else it is fucked.

Sure, more Engineers would be nice. I hope that we will see some more about their culture, weapons, and so on. Maybe there will not be much about their culture in the next movie if it will be the last one but some of it would be interesting. How about an Engineer army? I could imagine them having different space ships and weapons that mankind are not even close to having. This could really be something like some lord of the rings stuff like an orc army (Lord of the Rings) but Engineer style. Perhaps they could make something that is close to it at least, how likely that is can be questioned.

I agree with Galaxy Dave that David is done, how ever I hope that we will see more of the Engineers because I believe that they can be made interesting So Galaxy Dave, how about the Engineers? They could be made interesting if they really try, that is what I think at least.

Thanks, I like behind the scenes kind of information.

I wonder if that chair that Katherine Waterston sits in is comfortable?

IG: I think that Shaw was a better character in those short clips compared to Prometheus. She was not as annoying, so if she would have been like that and had a small role in Alien Covenant then maybe it would have been better but I do not know. So Shaw in those short clips yeah, but in Prometheus no.

BD: The thing is that I do not want David to be the main focus at all but yeah some positive qualities would be nice. Change the whole focus and focus on human characters and give them positive traits that are not limited to two or three (P and AC). Exactly, he was too evil in Alien Covenant so that is one of the reasons why it is bad.

I do not want him to have this big role as in the two prequels because the focus is bad. Give me well done human characters and interesting plot then I am fine movie wise.

“… so we have to see David have more Objectives than purely Eradicate Mankind.”

I would still not be interested in that, bad focus.

“... so what i am saying is its the Important Background that causes someone to become what they have become thats important.”

Unless the person has a severe personality disorder (antisocial personality disorder)? I agree with you in general about this one.

Sure they could show us reasons why he became the way he did but I still do not want a movie about David as the main thing. I want relatable human characters first,  robots after that (not sure where on the list they would make it though).

BD:

Maybe, I would rather have them finishing David so he dies early in the movie. I understand that some people still find him fascinating but to me the damage that AC did to him make me think that he is done. To me he is done, get something better.

“SJ was a Engineer, he had departed LV-223 where his Cargo had Evolved and infected the Engineer, who then laid down a Course to Nearby LV-426 to Quarantine his Cargo... and this EVENT happened either 100-200 years Prior or After the LV-223 Outbreak that killed off nearly all those Engineers on LV-223“

This is something that I am totally fine with. One problem is that the Engineers looked less in AC since they seemed to live in a small village or what ever it was. It was not made very interesting but I think that the next movie if there is one could fix that. AC should have made them look meaner and more dangerous rather than just being destroyed some seconds or what ever into the movie. Nope they had prioritized things wrong in Alien Covenant. Hopefully they will make more of them in the next movie if there is one but I don’t know.

Yeah, he was shown as a mad robot and that makes me not care about him. The themes is something that I understand but if it is shown in a bad way in the movie then I do not care, that is what has happened with David to me. Nope, it is time for something better and yeah I think that they can do that they just have to think a bit and keep Scott away from the story since he only cares about the robot.

"But it is something that was not to everyone's Cup of Tea and maybe something to be Bypassed?"

Yup, leave that and get something that is more interesting.

“but i feel if this is the case and THEY do stick with David as the Creator...”
Even if that fits the themes it is not good. I prefer a good story and characters over themes. To me it has done damage to the whole franchise to be totally honest so get rid of that now.

Make the Engineers more responsible for the original Xeno that we see in Alien. That makes more sense since the Engineers look more like the SJ, mostly when it comes to the size.

This is one reason why I do not like the David story because it is too much about him and movies have limits time wise so if he gets a lot of focus then there is less time for well made human characters. Nope, better human characters first and then we could think about what to do about David. Some people complain about the characters in the Star War prequels well at least they were better written than those in the Alien prequels, that should tell us something.

BD: I disagree in a way, maybe they can fix bits of him but that will not change my mind about him. I am tired of David and I want him to be gone or at least be reduced to such an extent so we do not see him that much. They already had him too much in AC so if they reduce his role and try to get better human characters then that would be a direction that I will welcome. Some people might want it to be all about him but I am the opposite to that. Maybe have like 5-10% being David stuff, and the rest should be other things.
 
Yes I agree that he was a lot better in Prometheus. He was more evil in the Alien Engineers script so maybe they though that people that did not like Prometheus would have liked it to be more like Alien Engineers so they made David more like that? That was a mistake I think because then he became like a mad scientist.

Nah, I have lost interest in that. Leave the David movie and make something better (that would not be too difficult). I would rather have it so they make a Shaw out of David than to have another movie about him again. Hopefully they are smart enough so they can see that so we do not get another disappointing prequel. This would probably depend on a lot of who the bosses at Disney are if the deal with Fox and Disney is through that is. By the way I do not want an Alien 5 and not a David movie either.

Sure he might have been abused in his earlier life but that is how you write a human character and he is an android. This is not something that I would like.
"So we BYPASS the next 10 years as they did with Alien Covenant."

If that means less David then sure.

"Its then a case of DO THEY go with the David Creator Route?  Which if they DO then we need Engineers so we can get a Ship that ends up with Davids Eggs on board."

Hmm, I would rather have it to the Engineers did the original version and David did his so that gives David a lesser role. More Engineers and less David. Please do not mess it up again because in a way I think that they need to compensate us for Alien Covenant which was not very good but I prefer if we get no movie compared to another one about David. Perhaps they get it right, I hope so.

"IF they U-Turn again and so David Did-Not Create those EGGS on the Derelict they would need to be clear that Davids are a Re-Creation, and then we have to ASK..... Do they cover the Space Jockey Event or leave it a Mystery?"

I do not have any problem with David making his own version, what I have a problem with is him being the original creator of the Xenos because it is a dumb idea that should never have been done.

About the SJ: They could give us clues but they do not need to show the whole thing. There should be some room left for speculation because it is fun and that is what has kept the mystery this far. We could see the ship take off and then we could fill in the blanks ourselves, I would like them to make it that way. (Prometheus showed us that in a way that I think was alright. The Squid thing) I can imagine it being in some sort of locked room or something and then get out but then how do we explain the blue mist in Alien? Maybe they had different places in the ship where they had eggs so the eggs that Kane finds were not the ones that created the Xeno that got the SJ. Maybe this is a bad idea but it could be a possibility.

Oram was an interesting character, they should have had more of him. I liked the religious angle but that he was trying to go a practical route even though things got messed up. Unfortunately once he died the movie got worse.

To me it could be that he was a member of a church. Maybe his parents were religious too so he got a religious upbringing but was abused by a priest or another religious leader. It could also be that he was bullied by someone or more persons either in school or in some other place.

It seems that there are many possible answers but it can be interesting to speculate.

It can possibly mean that he had been subjected to another Encounter Before by a Wicked Person or inflicted with a Wicket/Cruel Deed/Action.

And so being Molested could fit, but so could other kinds of abuse/torture perhaps...  Its a Interesting Quote, one that maybe Symbolizes that ORAM had been through such a Ordeal before that was on par or close to being attacked by a Alien Organism and he SURVIVED.   That all changed once the Chest Bursting Commenced.

It could also be that maybe he KNEW he would be dying and that through his Religion he has a Understanding of the Devil and his Works/Deeds and that this underhanded Tactic/Trick that the Devilish David had performed on him... Holds NO Fear for Oram as his Faith would save him.  (Afterlife)

I am sure Wayne Haag said that some of it in Alien Covenant had a Translation.  I will have to have a look into what i can, but yes your right its not exactly been thought out well over both movies.

While we have that Alphabet, many of the actual Hieroglyphs where just placed in Random Order.

The area of the Wall in Blue i can just about work out, it appears this LINE is repeated on Each Face of the Wall/Pillar.   And i have Translated it to RVU(I)TE MVRTESON where the 3rd Letter is a U or a I

However i cant seem to find anything this could translate into from Greek/Latin.

If you're asking me, I think there's no point in trying to translate the text since it's just gibberish, and not written in actual proto-Indo European :)

Some interesting comments by Billy Mansell and Juke Hardy, from the FB group:

True, could be! I wasn't sure what he meant by that either.

I think he meant he was molested as a child, that's what I understood anyways.

I certain think a lot could have happened between Prometheus and Alien Covenant.

Its not a case of Dr Shaw recovers Davids Body then 4 days latter Sends that SOS Message from the ATV Buggy and off they go onto the Juggernaught where a Headless David Manages to get the Ship into Orbit.

Then they spend a few Weeks Bonding, then Dr Shaw Fixes David, then they set the course for Planet 4 and off into Cryo-Sleep she goes.  While David heads off to the Engineers World, Bombards them, crashes the Ship.

Then Dr Shaw is either Injured and David keeps her held up in the Juggernaught for a while, or she is not injured and is kept their either against her own will, or informed its not Safe Outside.

Then weeks after Dr Shaw discovers something, which causes a rift and we end up with David killing her and using her Body to Create his Xenomorphs.

I would bet its not as Simple and Plain as this... and the Events between when she collected Davids Body/Head until the Time Dr Shaw is a Corpse and David obtains his FIRST Perfected Specimen... I FEEL a lot has transpired between those DATES/EVENTS.

I think the Goo can Re-Animate Cells, but by doing so it basically kills what was Originally there...   And so i would assume it would maybe Re-Animate a Humanoid but this Humanoid would Mutate into a Hybrid and so would not be a case of some Magical Resurrection Potion.

Thanks for the Share and Thanks to AVPGalaxy for getting the Interview.

Very Interesting and i especially like Billy Mansell's contribution as he seemed to really understand Prometheus and was a Fan of what Ridley Scott was attempting to Create.

There is a lot of Mystery Surrounding the Engineers, this interview does seem to touch on that these beings are Ritualistic and Sacrifice plays  a Large Role, and that these Ships come and go at certain periods of time, and that THE ARRIVAL of David and Dr Shaw was a Event that was not expected for those Engineers.

They appeared to not be in Fear or KNOW what was going to happen NEXT and those guys, Billy Mansell and Scott James seem to indicate these Engineers had no Fear of being Bombarded.

Which means either they are VERY Naive or maybe the Juggernauts Sole Purpose is NOT to Destroy Worlds.  So maybe by theory holds some Water ;)

But ALAS they both ponder that the LV-223 Engineers are Military Types, even as far as being Genetically Enhanced for this Role or Space Flight.   But lets not FORGET the Sacrificial Engineer had more in Common with the LV-223 Engineers than the Planet 4 ones.

So i think there is a STORY to be Told there, and looking at the Theme of the Prequels...  then i think we need to ASK this Question.

WHY did Weyland Create David?   And while there may be a few reasons i think the one to look out for is the ROLE David and Walter play in the Franchise.....  beings Created in our image who are Superior to us, but Cant Procreate and are Created to Serve their Creators and Perform Tasks/Missions and TOIL so that their Creators NO longer have to.

So i still WANDER if those Prometheus Engineers are to those Planet 4 Engineers as David is to Humans... only the LV-223 Engineers are Organic and not Synthetic...  so like Replicants....

Remember RS had said that Replicants are AI.

"he was just an evil robot like some sort of mad scientist that hated mankind for what reason exactly?"

Thats hit the NAIL on the head, if they continue with David he has to be given a lessor role and we NEED to explore WHY he became how he has.

"Hopefully they will not tell us the whole SJ thing "

I think this was the Plan, they may have given more Clues to HOW/WHEN this event happened, but i doubt they was going to explore it on-screen....  But ALAS they changed their minds to give us a more direct connection which meant bringing the EVENT to a more recent one...  Originally RS had explained it, just it was never shown in the Movies..

SJ was a Engineer, he had departed LV-223 where his Cargo had Evolved and infected the Engineer, who then laid down a Course to Nearby LV-426 to Quarantine his Cargo... and this EVENT happened either 100-200 years Prior or After the LV-223 Outbreak that killed off nearly all those Engineers on LV-223

"He did enough damage with Alien Covenant which is one of the worst alien movies this far because it almost has no well-made character. "

I agree some errors were made in how they Evolved/Expanded Davids Character, Sadly many still see him as a Crazy Robot... rather than proposing to us what is Humanity? What is a Soul and thus are we also just ROBOTS? only we are Organic and Inferior?  But it is something that was not to everyone's Cup of Tea and maybe something to be Bypassed?

"I would like for the Engineers to end David so we get rid of him"

I think following the Themes of Prometheus, it would be fitting IF David became Destroyed by his OWN Creation as a Act of HUBRIS but the Engineers could have something to do with it.... but i feel if this is the case and THEY do stick with David as the Creator... then the Engineers need to be shown to taking Davids Creation and Evolving it and then FALLING PREY to the same HUBRIS and thus leading to the Space Jockey Event.

"The new born was hardly the only problem with that movie"

Indeed it had a number of other Problems too, i just used this as a example that some Fans found it was well Disappointing and NOT very ALIEN or Scary.... some Fans felt the same regarding the Deacon too.  And to a Degree YES the Deacon and New Born were just not as Scary or Horrific as the Xenomorph and Neomorph.

But regarding CHARACTERS... Again you are 100% Correct the better they are the better the movie will be.   I think only Alien, Aliens and Alien 3 had a good Depth of Characters.

I think this is where they have the Problem.... AC had portrayed David in a way that displeased a lot of Fans, even those who were pleased with his Character in Prometheus...

I think what we need to do here is NOT wipe the Character under the Carpet like Dr Shaw was... but to look at WHAT went wrong and try and FIX the problem...  Dr Shaw could have been explored and had a Character Change due to Events and HOW they affected her.

With David they have to give us background to HOW/WHY he became as he did,  Flash Backs to the Abusive Upbringing he may have suffered?   Have him have a change of heart with the Colonist.  Because having him Charade as Walter and help the Colonists to set up a Colony then BAM! David then starts to use them for Experiments to Create more EGGS because thats his SOLE Agenda.. i think this simply would not work, well it would not please those who were disappointed with Davids Character in Alien Covenant.

I have said this before and recently i feel NOW  a AFTERMATH Movie is what they have to give us that proves to be Less Risky.

Alien Covenant is a AFTERMATH movie of a Potential Prometheus 2, we arrive at the Aftermath of what happened When David and Dr Shaw left LV-223 and so maybe the SAFE route is a Aftermath movie to what ever happens from the end of Alien Covenant and its Sequel

So we BYPASS the next 10 years as they did with Alien Covenant.

A Mission/Ship arrives at Origae-6 some 10 years after the Covenant leaves Planet 4, where they discover a partially Set-Up Colony, Death and Destruction and Horrors that lie in wait!

With a Handful (or TWO Handfuls) of Colonist managing to keep themselves Locked Away and Safe and the Remains of a Synthetic who has the Answers to what happened...

Its then a case of DO THEY go with the David Creator Route?  Which if they DO then we need Engineers so we can get a Ship that ends up with Davids Eggs on board.

IF they U-Turn again and so David Did-Not Create those EGGS on the Derelict they would need to be clear that Davids are a Re-Creation, and then we have to ASK..... Do they cover the Space Jockey Event or leave it a Mystery?

I think a TV Series would be Difficult if its only concerned with the Xenomorph...

More has to be fleshed out with the REASON for the Companies Pursuit of the Xenomorph, and we would have to consider the Origins. Which means exploring the Engineers in the Past or Present but give more reasons for WHY create the Xenomorph... Unless the CANON is now that David indeed does create the Xenomorph, and then more Background regarding WHY and AI has to be explored.

To do a Series about purely Humans coming across Xenomorphs on Space Stations, Space Ships or on Planets/Moons is something that has been Done to Death to be fair.

@Galaxy Dave

There is a Problem with the Franchise due to the Prequels, there now is many domination's of Fans with different likes/dislikes,  its certainly hard to please every fan.  I think there is NO real fix to please everyone.

IF we choose to By-Pass David this would be difficult because he played a Large Role in the Prequels... EVEN if we decide to only Cover the Xenomorph Origins then the Dilemma we are left with is this Question.

*Does the Xenomorphs Origins Stem from the Events of the Prequels, concluding with Davids Experiments?   

IF they decide to U-Turn and have it that NO David Did-Not Create the Original Xenomorph then they are left with TWO options.

*Do they continue with the Plot after Covenant and Where this Ship (Covenant) is off too, and then conclude and show that David has merely Re-Created his own Version of the Xenomorph?  But if they do this then it surely has to give David some Role to Play, as going this route with NO David would just not add up... Unless its a Aftermath Type Movie where a Human Ship arrives to a Origae-6 Colony in the aftermath of Davids Xenomorphs with David being nothing more than a Destroyed Corpse... but then it would be wise to activate him to get some Narration/Background information to what happened.

*IF they give us something else then how is this going to COVER the Xenomorph Origins or give us the Clues to it, but completely avoid the events of Alien Covenant?  Maybe this leaves us having a Human Mission to LV-223 or LV-426 were this Movie covers more clues to the Xenomorph Origins that Shed Light on the Events of Alien Covenant merely being Davids attempts to Re-create the Xenomorph but then its a case of again do they leave what happened to those Colonist and the Covenant a Mystery?

The Next Problem we come to is the Engineers, some fans were interested in the Engineers and would have wanted to find out more about these beings.   Do they introduce the Engineers into any of the Plots as mentioned in the previous Paragraph?

Or do they leave them OUT leaving us with unanswered Questions regarding their History/Agenda and Connection with Mankind/Our History as well as what other Species/Agendas they have and have influenced.

I think leaving the Engineers out would disappoint a number of Fans, introducing the Angry LV-223 Engineers but not giving us much of their History or Agenda would go some way to please some Fans... But then i feel a lot of Prometheus Fans was looking forwards to their Culture/Agenda and Purpose as well as seeing them and their Technology.

I dont think making any Prequel that Totally Ignores the Engineers and David would WORK...  what is LEFT once you remove them?  The Xenomorph and Greedy WY Company wishing to obtain the Xenomorph?  But would we get any clues to WHY and what set up Special Order 937?  If they choose to not do so and give us NO reasons behind WHY the company wants the Xenomorph, then i think all we would get is a REHASH of ALIENS where they may as well throw Ripley Back into it to Please Fanboys some more.

So i feel they have to keep David/Engineers in some Role, even if its the same as Alien Covenant where David now replaces Dr Shaw as the discovery of only a Corpse.  And we are left with Dead Engineers, but Flash Backs of What Happened... But again this may displease a lot of Prometheus Fans.

I think something to consider is Prometheus opened up some of the fans to something NEW/Fresh, and as a Alien Prequel its much more than being just about XENOMORPHS but there are a lot of Fans who think everything has to Center around Xenomorphs..

But then how many more Xenomorph movies can we have before it becomes STALE?  and when we cross that BRIDGE what is there Next?

So it is about Balance...

I do think the Safest Move is to give us a AFTERMATH movie.

So we have had David and the Covenant, they arrive on Origae-6 and then whatever events happen in the 1-3 years after they arrive on Origae-6 is when WE arrive at our AFTERMATH movie.

So we arrive in the Year 2113-2115 when a Human Ship arrives on Origae-6 to discover a Place of Hell...  and a Damaged Synthetic David.

The Question then is IF they go this route... do they have the Answer to the DERELICT?  Do they decide its a Ancient Event? Or a Event that happens after the Events of Alien Covenant?

I think if they continue to give David a Major role then they have to change some of his Personality to show some potentially remediable qualities.   As i don't think continuing the route of a David who's only interest is purely to Destroy Mankind/Engineers by Creating more of his Xenomorphs and that THIS is his only objective... i just cant see many fans willing to put up with this IF Davids role is as Large as teh last TWO movies.

Having Portrayed as some kind of Despot Hell bent on Eradication of Mankind is a Plot that maybe many would not be pleased at, especially as it shows David to be Cruel/Wicked...   If we look at Adolf Hitler there was more to him than just wanting to Exterminate the Jews.  This was one Cruel/Evil Act but only ONE of his Agendas..  This would be similar to David just wanting to Kill Humans with his Xenomorphs and only interesting in Farming those Colonist to Produce his Army of Death Dealing Demons...  And so with Hitler there was more to his Agenda and objectives and so we have to see David have more Objectives than purely Eradicate Mankind.

But then there is the Question.... WHY.. we can ponder WHAT turned Hitler into the Tyrant and the kind of Person who went about doing the things he had done....  Hitler was NOT Born Evil...  so what i am saying is its the Important Background that causes someone to become what they have become thats important.

So in context to David i think they have to Flesh Out more of the Reasons why he would Act the way he has, WHY he would become such a Cruel/Wicked Person....  We see in Prometheus he was like a Enchanted Boy.. watching him show a fascination in a number of things.   The Crossing also seemed to show a more Human/Considerate side to him....  they could go the Route that David is merely playing Dr Shaw and has NO affection for Humans at all and is Hell Bent on a Brutal Plot to Eradicate all Humanoids..   But i dont think many would like to see such a Movie....

However.... if they can show some signs of compassion from David and Flash Backs where we see that David had been humiliated/neglected and abused in his upbringing then maybe this can gain some Sympathy from the Audience and thus make his Character one more can grow to have a connection/care for.

So the whole Engineers as Humanoid Genetic Space Gardeners, is a PLOT that is Broad but one that maybe disinterests certain Fans...

The movie SHOULD be about the ALIEN as far as a number of Fans are Concerned but the Franchise had more to OFFER than just Xenomorphs and Ripley, and so you have to bring something FRESH and NEW and this was what they was trying to do by Expanding on the Weyland Company by introducing Peter Weyland and also his Creation David to fit into the whole Creation/Creator Arc...  As well as our Creators the Engineers.

It seems Ridley Scott was a Fan of Exploring what is LIFE, what is  SOUL what makes US different to other LIFE on Earth.  We are RELATED to Apes/Monkeys.... so WHY are we so different?  Why have Monkeys/Apes NOT gone on to Build Civilizations

What makes us so Special... Intelligent?  the differences we HAVE over Apes and Especially Monkeys allows us to have Ambition, Desires, Hates, Love the ability to be Empathetic but also Cruel... instead of just ANIMAL Instinct.

The Answers to this lies in the difference of opinion of Religion vs Creationism as in Evolution...  WHY have only Mankind Evolved to this LEVEL? Natural Selection?  Or Something ELSE?

Was it because we are CREATED by GOD?  Or was our EVOLUTION Manipulated/Hybridized and this is the kind of Plot they introduced with our Engineer would be Gods, who Manipulated Our DNA.

Alien Engineers shows us that MANKIND was the Result of Engineer DNA being injected into a PRIMATE to Evolve it into a Engineer/Primate Hybrid AKA Humans and that these Engineers came back further Evolve us both Genetically but Technologically too.

So looking at this we can see the Objective is to SHOW that its the Engineers DNA Upgrades and Visitations/Teaching us of Knowledge that Separates us from Primates.

We are Bio-Logical Machines... our Brains are more Evolved/Advanced than Apes/Monkeys so we have more Emotions, and the Ability to Create as in various forms of Art/Construction and have Feelings and Emotions more COMPLEX than Monkeys...

THIS is where the AI Aspect comes into play.... a Machine is Created to Perform a Task, it has a set limitation on what it can DO and in the Future Advanced Robots may be able to Perform Tasks a Human Can, and Interact with Each other and our Commands... but they are BASIC and so what Ridley Scott was trying to explore is just as the Difference between a Human and a Ape in terms of our Brains/Evolution and Abilities... he is asking WHAT happens when Machines with Advanced AI become so Advanced, and they become Sentient.

A Human is a Bio-Logical Machine....  A Robot is a Synthetic Machine.

We have Free-Will, Advanced Thoughts and Emotions that Separate us from Apes and Machines.... BUT what happens if a AI is created that can have Free-Will, Advanced Thoughts and Emotions.

This is what Ridley Scott is touching upon... IF we look at this Point, then all that differs is ONE is a Bio-Logical Humanoid.... the other is a Synthetic Humanoid.

LEAVING ONLY TWO Differences (mainly)

*Biological Humans CAN Procreate Naturally (Breed) a Machine Can-Not.

*Biological Humans HAVE a Soul (Its a Question then of DO WE? and what constitutes a Soul).

So we then come to DAVID who as a Humanoid Being (Synthetic) has ADVANCES in every Aspect that a Human Being (Organic) has, he is Stronger, Smarter, Faster and he is not subjected to the Health issues and Aging Process that brings DEATH to us Mortals.

David is thus SUPERIOR to us in EVERY way apart from those TWO Points.....  He Cant Procreate and he Does-Not have a Soul.

So RS is exploring HOW would such a being as David who is Superior to his Creators, and yet is Created to Serve, how does this being FEEL, and what is different... A SOUL?  But what is a Soul?  A Spirit that Lives on after Death?  is there any PROOF? and in context to the SCI-FI Plot do Humans have such Souls?

With David his AI (Memories/Experiences/Emotions) could maybe be Uploaded to a system/computer and Transferred into a NEW Body, would this not GIVE David LIFE after DEATH... thus a SOUL?

If Mankind Does-Not have such a SOUL (Spirit) but the Soul is defined by the other meanings for a Soul... then David could also have a Soul based on these too.

The Next Thing is Creation... would this effect David?  Does his ability to not be able to Create make him feel In-superior?   Does he see that because his Creator PETER Weyland created David that this makes him a GOD, and because Mankind Can Procreate/Create Life means they are Superior?   And what of the GODS? Those Engineers, do they Procreate? we know they can from Alien Covenant and they also Created Mankind.

So IF David could Create his own Creation/Life then would that put him on Equal Footing to the Gods/Mankind.

THESE are the things Ridley Scott was very interested in, SADLY not every one is interested in such things, or they feel its a distraction from the ALIEN Franchise which should be about XENOMORPHS

I find the AI aspect Interesting, but i feel the way it came across in Alien Covenant did come across as a MAD ROBOT, when Ridley Scott wants to pose the Questions of WHAT is a Robot?  and are Humans just Biological Robots?

It was the execution of Davids Arc/Character that Disappointed, compared to the Pinocchio Boy of Prometheus .  And as DAVID is a Main Character, people just struggle to connect with a NONE Human Character but more so the way David came across.

While in Prometheus and the Crossing, i guess people could feel more Sympathy with David....  and so THIS is what they need to Focus on, they need to give us History to WHAT makes David become such a Twisted and Evil being....

And his Abuse/Neglect by his Creator and Humans are something that could be explored to help us understand his upbringing had affected the kind of BEING David has become.

I think there are CLEAR Problems that came from the Route they took with the Prequels...

If we FLASHBACK to prior to the Prequels, then the Xenomorph had been done over and over, its appearance in Novels/Comics, Games and the AVP Franchise just TONED it down to a Monstrous Killing Machine that poses a GREAT threat in HAND-TO-HAND Combat, BUT is dispatched with easy from RANGE....   

It was JUST not Scary anymore...  PROOF? Did the Face Hugger Scene in Alien Covenant have the same affect as the First One that Infected KANE? Nope... not really...  The Xenomorph in Alien Covenant was not Scary too... but this depends HOW its used... the Xenomorph was not Scary in ALIENS, Alien Resurrection, AVP and AVPR

Using the Xenomorph to be Scary would be difficult to do, it would require certain SETS/LOCATIONS that are Dark/Claustrophobic  it would require Human Characters to be put in Jeopardy by being Hunted by the Beast, with Little/No Chance of tackling the Xenomorph.  This is what ALIEN and ALIEN  3 had done, but for this to work you have to FEEL a connection to the Characters.  You have to have a sense of their Plight.  And the Xenomorph being used as a Unseen Lurker.

The PROBLEM with this would be HOW do you introduce such a Horror Ride as a Prequel?   This depends on the PLOT and so if we send down Humans to Investigate the Derelict and become Trapped and having to Evade a Xenomorph or TWO...  this would kind of Work, but you would also need to Bring this THREAT back to a Human Ship/Outpost (which is kind of what Alien Covenant attempted).    But by going to the Derelict and then having a Xenomorph END-UP on the Human Ship would just be a Re-hash of ALIEN to a degree... If we introduced More Xenomorphs and Action then it would be similar to Alien Resurrection.

If these Humans instead stumbled on a Installation where these Xenomorphs came from... again this could work, depending WHAT this installation is like as far as Xenomorph Eggs and how many GET LOOSE and so this could give us a kind of Re-Hash of ALIEN 3 or indeed a bit more of a ALIENS/AVP (minus Predators) if we introduce more than TWO Xenomorphs and go for more Action.

So the PROBLEM was how do we Tackle the Prequels...

*A Company/Human Ship investigate the Derelict prior to the Nostromo, but then there is little evidence of any previous visitation of Humans to the Derelict... Unless this Mission results in a Infection that is carried to the Ship (like ALIEN) or some Humans who get attacked end up dying  in other areas of the Derelict the Nostromo Crew had not visited.  THIS Plot being set around the Derelict it would then be  case of HOW does this Provide Answers to WHY/WHEN/HOW those Eggs got on the Derelict and WHO the Pilot was.

*A Human Ship arrives at another Location, that is either a Installation where these Xenomorphs are Experimented on, or Kept to then be Loaded onto the Derelict Space Craft as Bio-Weapons.  Where we are shown this Place Houses Derelict Space Craft.   THIS is the way they decided to go with the Prequels, because it can Introduce/Give Clues to the HOW/WHY/WHEN of the Egg Cargo/Derelict but it can do so in a way that Does-Not Directly lead to the Space Jockey Event.

ALIEN: ENGINEERS took this route, it introduced the Xenomorphs, and gave some clues to the Origins.... but it also covered the BIGGER Mystery which was the Space Jockey Pilot... and to a degree more than just exploring WHAT was the Space Jockey and HOW/WHEN did he get infected and END UP on LV-426

So there was the PLOT around the Space Jockey Race, the Ancient Alien/Gods Plot.... which WHILE Bold.. and Ambitious maybe in HINDSIGHT was a path that maybe should not have been explored.

But its a Question of IF we explored the Space Jockey to be  Race who are NOT connected to Mankind, and are just a Alien Race on the way to a undisclosed location, involved in some Distant/Ancient Conflict and Succumbed to their OWN Bio-Weapon or a Creature they had attempted to Exploit as such.   Its a Case of ONCE this Prequel investigates the Space Jockey, and gives us clues to the Xenomorph Connection and Origin...  Its then WHAT NEXT?  Where does another Prequel come from?      its  only by Awakening some of these Space Jockeys to then be involved in the Prequel... or explored incoming after the Prequel that we can get something a bit different to expand upon...  But its HOW does this Conflict with the Franchise... If Humans go down to the Derelict/Outpost discover the Place these Xenomorphs are Stored on and Shipped to the Cargo Bays.  Awaken a Space Jockey... this Space Jockey Gets Killed.... But he Alerts others who COME in the Next Installment and NOT have this conflict with the Original Franchise.

THIS could have worked... but they decided to give the Space Jockey the Ancient Creators/Gods Angle to add some DEPTH to the Franchise and open the Franchise up to Potentially much more than a ALIEN Species and its Alien Bio-Weapon.

Prometheus was Born from this.... but also Ridley Scott Felt it was interesting to explore DAVID too, because he fitted very well with the Creator/Creation Story ARC...  Which is the BIGGER Picture Ridley Scott had attempted rather than just Xenomorhs, Eggs, Chest Busters etc.

So its THESE Fundamental Themes that the Prequels were Exploring, where EVEN as far back as ALIEN: ENGINEERS the Xenomorph is Reduced to some Organism either Created/Experimented on to be used as a Bio-Weapon... or Discovered and then attempted to be Experimented on to be used as a Bio-Weapon.     The Xenomorph thus becoming just  TOOL of Destruction...

Leaving the REASONS for WHY some Race/Person would Create/Obtain or USE such a Horrific Bio-Weapon.  As the Main Focus rather than HOW such a thing was used...   And in Hindsight the Curve-ball David as Creator may have been a Mistake... but it FITS with the Theme/Reasons for such a Bio-Weapon that Ridley Scott wished to Explore.

The Creation/Sub-Creation, Rebellion/Fear of Rebellion is the KEY theme they are exploring and the Xenomorph is just a TOOL of Destruction, Created at First By/From a Agenda to Create something to Take Away a Proposed Threat (HUMANS) then Evolved to being something Created as a Process of the Above but then Fine Tuned by a Android who wishes to NOT only Perfect the Killing Machine/Bio-Weapon but also wishes to CREATE for himself.

This Plot Change has caused a BIT of a SNAG!

But Ridley Scott and FOX were trying to Expand upon more than a movie being purely about the XENOMORPH.

Thanks for the share....

Its a shame the Engineers are blocking out the Engineer Writing on those Walls, as i would have liked to try and Translate it ;)

Splendid work once again by Matt Hatton

@Lone indeed not lol. 

I bet his notes read something like

"Dear Diary, as I sit here amongst the countless dead engineers I ask myself, did I go too far this time. Is David perhaps too bat-shit-crazy..No, no i think not.

Now where did I leave Dr Shaw, we should tie-up that nuisance of a loose end too"

XD

@IRaptus, Ridleygrams wait for no man....or dead Engineer! :)

Great find Dark Nebula! Love that first one of Riddlers calmly writing notes amongst the dead engineers lol 

Amazing photos!

So many cool scenes.

As with everything Matt & Dane created, it's dark, gorgeous & beautiful! Their work for Covenant was outstanding in both it's anatomical precision & Giger reference!  

I wish them both every success with the Art Book, have one on pre-order. September release here in the UK, can't wait!

Nice share Dark Nebula, thank you!

Sorry for Rapace, thou

It's so beautiful.
How I would want to have it on my wall.

Alien: David be Gone

Rated R

I totally agree.  The AI concept is overplayed, especially in other films and stories.  I sure as hell don't want to see anymore movies about boring-ass robots.  JESUS it's so boring.  Who cares!!  I never liked David from the start!  Good riddance.  I could care less if there was a sequel to this mess.  It's best to start with another direction and just have these junk movies explained away as we go forward into scary unknown territory.  Hell, Netflix can do better than Foxscott.  Scott is a great director and artist.  That is all.  Please keep him away from the storyline with his Roman Gods crap.  Jesus how boring!!

Alien is about alien!  It's about creepy strangeness, something entirely foreign and terrifying.  The Space Jockey was so weird!  Best to explore the weirdness of what these aliens are and then up the terrifying strangeness with even more creepy goodness!  It doesn't have to be bloody to be good and scary.  The alien culture doesn't have to make sense because that's what makes it so good because it's the mystery of not knowing.

I am pretty sure that there will be a sequel to it. Disney must be crazy if they dont let him finish his series. They dont even have to give Ridley Scott a huge budget. A much smaller one and Scott can still make a good looking movie. It could be even better than the previous ones because he even has to be more creative. 

Thoughts_Dreams

I have a feeling that if there will be a tv series set in the alien universe it will not be about engineers.

We are done with the engineers, otherwise Ridley Scott would have got his chance after Prometheus. 

Most probably a tv series would be like the new Predator film, something embarrassing for the grown-ups. Unless they let Ridley Scott have a word in it, as a producer at least. 

I liked it too. It's such a pity that A:C pretty much closed the door on the Engineers. Prometheus whetted our appetite for these beings & I was banking on finding out so much more about their motives & culture!

David either has to see the error of his ways & make amends, or be taken to task by the false Gods he once emulated. Either way, a sequel would need to end his story.