New Replies (Page 355)
Very Interesting Statement by Ridley Scott and it does add up to the kind of stance he was taking with Prometheus and his comments after Alien Covenant about being ahead of the game/curve so to speak (with Prometheus)
I think we need to understand the EVOLUTION of the Xenomorph, in order to understand Ridley Scotts's statements.... The Beginnings of ALIEN came from Dan O'Bannon's STARBEAST were the Monster involved in this Story was similar it had a similar Life-Cycle to what the Xenomorph was intended to eventually have (The Alien DC Egg Morph) however the Plot differed in that the Egg Stage of this Monster was NOT discovered on the Derelict Alien Ship (The Humans discovered via a Beacon/Signal). The Organism was discovered in a seperate Pyramid/Temple Complex that housed the Egg Stages of this Organism and was the Ritual Birthing Place (via Sacrificial Hosts) of this Species.
The Alien Species are shown to be Civilized, and its indicated they had built this Pyramid as a Incubation/Nursery for their Young to be Born and Grow. The Alien Species Long Gone and all that remained was the End/Beginning Stages of their Life-Cycle the Eggs/Spores.
So the ALIEN MONSTER was supposed to be a Intelligent Species a Civilized Species, but its Young would Grow to become Feral and Aggressive without Nurturing by the Developed Adults.
By the time we got to ALIEN we had HR Giger's Necronom IV and V be used as the basis for the Creature Design, giving us something Unique and Surreal but also something kind of seductive to its Aesthetic, it appeared to be both Horrific but also something very Feminine and Attractive to its Design. While a Number of things had happened as far as Changes between Starbeast and Alien as far as the Plot and Set Locations... It appeared Ridley Scott wanted to explore the Xenomorph's Intelligence, so as to kind of connect to the Creature being more than just a Killing Machine... And by this he wanted to have the Xenomorph Kill Ripley and then Impersonate her Voice to Lure in more Hosts.
So we can see the Concept appeared to be more than a Beast that goes around Killing People, but without any upbringing by its Species, the Creature was at first a Predatory Killing Machine, but had the instincts to go and Procreate its Species, and then Evolve Intellectually. But with the Ripley Death/Impersonating idea dropped and the Egg Morph Scene Cut, what we had was a Alien Monster that went around killing the Crew ONE BY ONE like some kind of Alien Space Jason Voorhees. This shows just how much the Outlook/Interpretation of a Movie can be affected by the removal/edit of a few Scenes. (as we see with Prometheus also).
AFTER ALIEN.....
In came James Cameron, wanting to continue the Story with a Sequel, where Cameron gave us the idea that those EGGS had to be Laid by a Queen.... James Camerons Aliens was a Action Orientated Movie and still to this day has to be one of the BEST if not the BEST Sci-Fi Popcorn Action Flick there is.. Its like the Rolls Royce of say Star Ship Troopers Popcorn Flicks.
It reduced the Roll of the Xenomorph as being nothing more than a Herd/Hive of Deadly Alien Killing Machines, intent on Procreating its Species like some kind of More Advanced Ant/Termite/Bee Hierarchy. We had Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection come along and they never really Evolved the Organism to much as far as its Agenda/Purpose, but only to reveal more that the Human Company Corporations had Agendas to use the Organisms for its Bio-Weapons Research and Development Departments.
Looking at the Franchise... it was a case of what to do NEXT? We ended up with a number of Games/Comics which a number where Great Fun... but these were mainly those that explored the Predator and Alien in the same Universe and so we ended up with the AVP Movies which only further downgraded what the Xenomorph WAS.
At this Point the Xenomorph from the Franchise in the Whole was a Invasive Species that had ONE Purpose and this was to Simply Survive and Procreate Much like some kind of more Advanced Termite/Ant. We had the Reveal that in the ALIEN Movies the Companies wanted to exploit the Organism as a Bio-Weapon, the AVP Movies showed the Predators used the Organism as the Ultimate Prey for the Hunt.
The True Mystery of the Xenomorph still remained as to WHERE did it come from..... which goes back to the Derelict/Space Jockey Scene where for a long time Ridley Scott had indicated it was a Bio-Weapon that the Space Jockey Race used.
IF..... we Did-Not explore this Mystery then we have to ask WHAT/WHERE Next?
We could have tried the ALIEN Formula again, this was also tried with Alien 3 and we have to ask, after seeing the Beast on Screen in more greater numbers in Aliens, Alien Resurrection and the AVP Movies.. Could they really give us a few more ALIEN style Flicks and doing another few of those would the Xenomorph just be a Alien Space Jason Voorhees?
They could have gone the ALIENS Formula but how many of these in light of Alien Resurrection and the AVP Movies before we are just getting a Starship Troopers kind of Flick?
The only LOGICAL route if they Ignored the Prequels would have been to take Alien Resurrection as far as the Purpose and the Agenda of the Company in the Franchise and show us the Xenomorph being Evolved, Experimented on and offer something different to the Xenomorph we see in Alien, Aliens and Alien 3.
I FEEL THIS ^^^^ is what Ridley Scott was saying regarding how you can go a few more rounds but you have to EVOLVE him (Xenomorph) and you have to come up with something Fresh.
I'm excited about this replacement Scott is talking about!
It's too bad that there will be no more Giger in the next Aliens movies as Fox does no want to royalties to his Estate. and from 2049, Blade runner is Philip k D-ck-free.
Without those 2, sir Scott would have never been considered a master of sci-fi. And judging by such interviews he does not really know where to continue his story, so in all likely-hood the last movie in the series will be disappointing.
As for the xenomorph, he already has cheated celluloid death way to much.
It sounds somewhat interesting, but the Giger vibe absolutely has to be there.
Slightly interesting! I mean, this is kind of what we have been hearing since just before the began developing Prometheus fully. I don't really enjoy the fact that Scott seems to really really be pushing the creature out and not giving it the respect I (as a super hardcore and particular fan) think it deserves. That said, he knows how to make a quality movie. He made something ABSOLUTELY different, fresh, and GREAT in Prometheus and did his best (with the writers) to make something profound and great wrapped in a rehashing of the Alien plot.
So, hopefully he can make something that is, well, good in the third movie of his Prometheus trilogy. If it happens. But yeah, it just comes down to story. If they can craft something a little bit more interesting (they can't go with the alien signal or map to abandoned planet and eaten by monsters this time) and new. Or if they try to go with a classic sort of plot, then just do it better than Covenant. Also, give us some realistic and well-written characters too. Boom bam bang.
i'm against this this!!!
This would be like replacing Batman with Flying Squrriel Man
It's the after effects I worry about.
That finally explains the Engineers Face Burn lol
I will add that Winona Ryder does not look to old compared to her age, and little make up could make her appear younger, the Plot could also have her suffer some kind of damage to allow for some make-up to hide her Age too.
Alternatively...
Natalie Portman, Charlotte Le Bonn or Keira Knightley could also stand in as a Call Maybe Daisy Ridley also?
If FOX/Disney were to Run with this kind of Plot, were we reveal the aftermath of a War on Earth, where Synthetics are revealed to have taken control and seen a downfall of Synthetics at the hands of their own Creations the Autons... we have Ridley Scotts kind of WAR OF THE WORLDS at play.
Where Humanity is on the verge of extinction but part of Humanity has escaped, and used a kind of EMP device as well as Nuclear in a attempt to take Earth back to the Dark Ages... so that Technology can be eradicated on Earth.... But show that it did not take out all Technology and that a War on Earth is now Fought between Synthetics and Autons, with Mankind stuck in the Middle.
We could even INTRODUCE the Engineers at the End...
I feel this would be a fitting END to Ripleys Saga, that can connect to the Company and its pursuit of the Xenomorph, what becomes of David and also open the Door for Sequels.
Ha ha ;)
Indeed i have touched upon this before...
I would have it reveal that Ripley 8 Clone is starting to go through stages of CHANGE as her Xenomorph DNA, begins to Re-Write her Human DNA. So she begins to go through some Changes, this allows for Miss Weaver to be Cast, where she would only need a CGI Touch up for a few scenes before the Transformation starts, when she can be touched up with Make-Up Instead.
Stages where her Skin Becomes Grey, her Eyes Turn Black, then latter her Head becomes Elongated, other minor changes to Body Proportions before she becomes more of a Hybrid, maybe closer to the 3rd Image Below, maybe even incorporating some Bio-Mechanical Features from the 4th Image. Or even Turn out like some of the Dr Shaw Concepts from Alien Covenant.
Then reveal that Call takes her to somewhere Safe in a Attempt (while partially transforming) to Save her Humanity... But reveal the Curve-ball that Call has taken her to some Auton Science Division where they capture and hold Ripley 8 in Quarantine and reveal that Call's True Agenda in Alien Resurrection was to obtain a Sample of the Xenomorph Bio-Weapon or a Hybrid. And reveal that these Cult of Auton's wish to use the Xenomorph as a Weapon so it can gain Dominance over the Humans remaining, and other Synthetics.
Then reveal a place of Worship at the Cult Hideaway with a Mural that Depicts DAVID 8 in Cruciform Pose.
The Ripley 8 Hybrid would have her Egg Cells taken away and from them we get a Hybrid NEW Xenomorph that stands between a cross of the Neomorphs and AR Clone Xenomorphs.
In the End, we could have Ripley 8 escape, and infect Humans (Company who rescue her but want to also use her) and these Hybrid Xenomorphs that are created via a Fully Hybrid Ripley 8 impregnating a Human Host... are used in a War with the Xenomorphs created from her Egg Cells.
After Ripley 8 Prevails. She Sacrifices Herself to DEATH knowing that she can not allow for her to be exploited for more Xenomorphs and knowing that as time goes by she is becoming more Xenomorph and it would be a matter of time before there would be NO Humanity left within her....
Well i WANDER what Traps David has in store for the Returning Engineers?
Looking at this in a Serious Manner....
I would assume the best option would be what can we COOK from the Xenomorph Eggs ;)
"Were our Engineers are not painted as being even more Human"
I cant seem to Edit, as the Edit page is blank... so i meant to say Were our Engineers are NOW painted as being even more Human.
Option 1) Was pretty much the Relationship between the Cargo and Derelict and Pilot was in STARBEAST.
Option 2) Was pretty much where Alien Engineers and then Prometheus had taken us, with Alien Covenant then throwing in the David Creator Curveball... which is a big disappointment for the Majority of Fans.
Option 3) Is where i think there is SAVING GRACE for the Franchise, by exploring this, with Unused Elements from Star Beast and taking into account the ideas that HR Giger had... while the Prometheus Themes could still apply as to Rebellion by the Engineers.
This was in part what i was going to introduce in my 3rd Part of Prometheus, after working on my Canceled Prometheus 2 Project.
I think i can see the MAIN problem with the Franchise....
The Space Jockey was a Enigma, a Mystery it was awe inspiring, the Atheistic of the Ship, the Size of the Pilot and leaving us Wondering what Purpose would such a being have with that Cargo.
1) Did the Space Jockey discover the Cargo, and Curiosity got the better of him after he had (by what ever means) loaded the Cargo onto his Ship.
If this was the case, did the Space Jockey have any prior knowledge of the Xenomorph prior to those Eggs getting on the Ship, or was this the First Time the Space Jockey had encountered them?
2) Did the Space Jockey Race Engineer/Experiment or Create the Xenomorph, and if so was it a Creation from Scratch, or something they had Modified/Engineered based off something else they had encountered? And for what Purpose did they Create/Engineer the Xenomorph Eggs?
3) Was the Space Jockey some kind of Slave for another Race/Being as far as the Relationship with the Cargo, or was there a kind of Symbiotic Relationship. Because the Derelict and Xenomorph Organism did seem to share a Aesthetic look.
Ridley Scott had confirmed the relationship was the Egg Cargo was a Bio-Weapon used by the Space Jockey but he for many years gave no real details. He did have the idea of some connection between the Xenomorph and Space Jockey were we would be off to a very Alien (Bio-mechanical)World but he never got far as any real production on such a idea.
We then FLASH FORWARDS to the Prequels and Alien Engineers takes the Option 2 route, they also then threw in the CURVE-BALL that the Space Jockey Race are actually Alien Beings, Creators and the Race who mankind had interpreted as Gods... The Xenomorph being a Weapon they would use to Eradicate Failed/Rebellious Experiments/Creations.
Prometheus Evolved from this and decided that actually we DO-NOT need any Xenomorphs or Answers as per-say but loosely touch upon the Bio-Warfare these beings had created to deal with a Wayward Creation and to explore the Creation/Gods themes more.
AT THIS POINT...
The Xenomorph was relegated to merely a Weapon, and is to the Engineers as what maybe Gunpowder and its various Weaponized uses are for Mankind...
The Space Jockey was relegated to being a 7.5ft Tall Suited Humanoid, and while interesting, it just lacked the AWE inspiring Nature and Mystery of the Space Jockey..... But these could be explored more in a SEQUEL..
We ALAS arrive at ALIEN: COVENANT
Were our Engineers are not painted as being even more Human, and brushed under the Carpet, Relegating them even further from the Mystery and Enigma of the Space Jockey.
We are given the Xenomorph Origins.... but again its role is merely a Creation that is Created to be used as a Destructive Force against Mankind, but only this time... The CURVE-BALL is the Organism is a Creation of the Human Created David Android... its interesting and fits with the Philosophical Themes Prometheus was exploring... But on the other hand, it brings the Xenomorph to be something that is FAR from Ancient and really does not Stand Up to the Enigma of the Cargo of Eggs we FIRST DISCOVERED in ALIEN.
The Xenomorph was also not used well in the movie too, it failed to live up to the Stealthy Alien in ALIEN and also the Action was no-where near as good as ALIENS and we basically got a Rushed Alien 3 kind of encounter.
So its stands NOW that the Xenomorph and Space Jockey are FAR from ALIEN as the Original Image we had in our heads the VERY FIRST time anyone sees the Derelict/Space Jockey and Egg Cargo Scene in ALIEN.
THIS ^^^ Last Paragraph is the Problem we are dealing with, and Totally different to how many could have envisioned.
Well you should have been more attentive to where I explained the name change and you would not have to be worried, my dearest friend.
Maybe not hamburgers but some coke may be squeezed out of a dead xeno,
Ripley and Call assemble a team of daredevils and go to the Xeno-Prime.
I was worried that, after joylitt, you left the forum too.
It's always reassuring to see old friends around.
We are sort of left to assume that Earth was destroyed by ourselves or perhaps by the Earth Hive story arc.
But, perhaps it should be revealed post-AR that the Engineers had returned to rain on parade and destroy Earth, and there was a war on the planet.
The Engineer vs Auton War that ultimately saved Earth by trashed the joint in the process (Sorry BigDave borrowed from your idea)
Autons fighting for earth and headed by
***
Walter.
the return
Here is a xeno made of burger
I hear that face huggers taste like chicken and crab
Well, someone I won't mention here, pointed out how ignorant I am, so I had to change the name to fit the new revelation.
IgnorantGuy = Red0Guy?
Well i suppose they could neutralize the acid, I think the meat would probably taste bad no matter how you prepare it.
Time Travel isn't a thing in the Alien series!
This thread has ironically opened up a new conversation. Basically, think of an idea, throw it at the wall and see if it sticks. If it does, it can be a very...moving experience ;)
hahahaha I knew once id mentioned the toilet it would start tongues wagging lol how terrifying would death on the loo by xeno be?
Big Dave:
I would honestly not give a damn about a David only movie. Make robot movies sure but don't tie it to the Alien franchise. For me it is a humans first kind of franchise so I am not in it for the Xeno or the robots. Different monsters are interesting but to me it is human characters first.
1. Humans
2. Monsters
3. The rest
If some people want a pure David movie then fine for them. I do not piss on their opinions but to me it just seems boring.
Not having the Xeno was not the problem with Prometheus, the lame characters was what was wrong and that also applies to AC. This is what has been the main problem this far and is what many complained about Prometheus about when I look around the Internet at least.
"On the other hand the Fanboys would not be interested because they want Xenomorphs and Queens which have been done to death quite frankly... So you have to come up with something a bit different."
If so I am not one of the fanboys, I want better human characters and also more about the Engineers would be nice. Less androids please because that was one of the problems with Alien Covenant, that it was an android movie, that is how it looked on the screen despite the themes about creation.
If their flesh is really acidic, it might have to have a lye bath like lutefisk.
Time travel? ;)
As far as AC versus goes AC I am not sure, I am not a huge fan of any of them.
1) thanks BigDave ;)
2) ignorantGuy put your knowledge here, I'm glad you're also part of the theme exposed.
it was a mistake to define Giger's book as a novel, I apologize for this, but I am convinced that everything will be overwhelmed by a more painful and disturbing sensation in the sequel, setting aside the creatures of David and starting to play seriously with the trials.
if in AC we have tasted death since the arrival on the planet I firmly believe that the settings will play a part of central substance for the next events.
Ozymandias I compared him to David because it is equivalent to the new identity of the character, his fate is as if it were already written and we can already guess it.
the encounter with the neomorph and he blows on the nostrils of his steed, the creature smells the breath and remains adored by its creator, a small clue of enormous importance.
all that will remain of it could be the perfect creature called biomechanical xenomorph.
3) in the background is not a butterfly, are only leaves that approach the wind held in the instant from the frame, it would have been nice if it had been a butterfly : p
"Au Revoir Shoshanna"
Umm how could Babe died of watching Alien Covenant? That movie wasn't even out yet! Also Covenant is way better than Resurrection!
BigDave we don't know for sure anything about what the Engineers thought about themselves, so comparing to Ozymandias might be far-fetched. They seem to have survived space travel for many millennia, so I bit of hubris might be understandable. We don't know that their society was in decline or that they demanded worship by their offspring.
So I'm not sure that the comparison with Ozymandias quite works.
PS: Let the Alien formula (Land on a foreign planet, get infected, aliens appear, kill people 1 by 1) die already.
Look BigDave, I'm not a fan per se of anything. I don't buy toys, comics, novels, and I live in Eastern Europe where almost every pirates movies. Prometheus was one of movies I went to the cinema, bought the DVD and re bought it on 4k blu-ray on day one (from the British Amazon as Fox does not bring this format to my country) and was looking forward to the sequel, which I have expected to at least have some kind of nuance.
Sorry I did not find nothing like that in Covenant, a story about a Megalomaniac tyrant against some generic horror fodder. (I think that it would have been very nice a scene where David would have wanted to remove the WY logo from his finger but it would have always regenerate). And they thought stealing from Hannibal Lecter would be a good idea, but that character was only great in opposition to Foster's Clarice. Do you think Hannibal would have killed/raped Clarice, of course not.
So I might be disposable for Fox, but that's it, more money for me.
I would like to further add to Ignorant Guy responses as they touch upon a lot of good things.
1) The Ozymandias Philosophy is connected because it reveals that after a Great King/Ruler they only live on and are remembered by their Works, and any Great Monuments/Statues dedicated to them.... but over time eventually NOTHING will remain of these. so it touches on many things connected to Engineers, Weyland and David as far as Legacy and Creation. It holds a lot of Philosophy to it.
2) Giger was a Artist but he did have some ideas on how his interpretation of the work he was doing should have came across, his depiction of the Mural Screams there is a Genetic Connection between the Ship and the Xenomorph, as if the Ship Produces the Organism and that there are Humanoids who Ritually Sacrifice themselves for the Procreation of this Organism.
This is taken further when Giger had the idea that the Egg Silo/Cargo Hold contained Bio-Mechanical Pregnant like Belly Constructions that would Produce the Eggs... I think HR Gigers ideas should have been explored beyond its Visual Aesthetic.
3) Totally agree, and this goes in context to the OT... i hope they can introduce us to some very ALIEN very Lovecraftian elements into the Franchise that deal with some Ancient Race/Being and a Forbidden/Dark Knowledge. And not a Manuscript of Davids Works.. but something far more dark, and ancient.
I just thought if done well, it could touch upon some things, and responses could be met by fans regarding the content, but i guess really FOX/Disney dont really need such a Novel as they can Gauge what is put on here and other places in regards to whats needed.
After Prometheus they Gauged that Fans was disappointed with the Space Jockey/Engineer, following the Story/Wishes/Questions of Dr Shaw, the Lack of Answers to Alien and the Xenomorph Origins, and that the movie lacked any Eggs, Face Hugger, Chest Buster and Xenomorphs... or related (the Trilobite, Deacon and Hammerpedes not good enough)..
So the only things that appeared to be taken as positive was the Black Goo, how does this connect to the Xenomorph, and Davids Character. Everything else in general the Fans felt needed to be improved or introduced.
And so ALAS we had Alien Covenant.... where now we have these problems... Some Fans were disappointed at the lack of Engineers or exploration of their kind, Some Fans were disappointed in how the Xenomorph was handled... and the BIG issue seems to be the reveal that David is the Creator of the Xenomorph and his reasons for doing so.
So i think Fans would really want clear answers to any NEWS on the Future of the Franchise, be it a continuation of the Prequels, a continuation of the Alien Franchise, a Ret-Con of Alien 3 or something NEW
