New Replies (Page 509)

This location is very good, and with work by artist like Wayne Haagg the almost MARS like Landscape can be transformed into something like we see on LV-223 and indeed LV-426

If we look past the Procreation in Alien DC and Aliens then the only options left for David would be experimentation.

Can David and does he have the Technology on the Covenant to extract and manipulate Face Hugger DNA and somehow either CLONE the Face Huggers or Manipulate/Merge DNA from one with a Human Host?

If David can extract Face Hugger DNA and Splice it, then this opens up the realm for one of these TWO options.

4) Extract and Splice Face Hugger DNA into those other Embryos so they either evolve into a Face Hugger, a Xenomorph or a Hybrid Organism.

5) Splice the Face Hugger DNA with Human DNA to either create a Hybrid, that maybe can procreate (Eggs) or that the DNA can man infect a Humans Egg Cells to create Xenomorphs or Face Huggers.

When we look into Davids Comments about needing his Queen, and look at what Fate is laid for Daniels...  and considering Dr Shaws Fate then indeed Answer number 5 makes some sense.

There is another route connected that we shall call Option

6) That extracting from a Face Hugger Embryo David can obtain the DNA that acts like a Virus or he can extract a Xeno-virus from these Face Huggers...  With this he can then perform similar to 4 and 5.

The Final options for David... would require him to go back to Planet 4, one of which would be obtain more Eggs and Spores.

The other would be to obtain some Black Goo...

We CAN-NOT rule out David had brought a Glass Vial of Black Goo with him to the Covenant, it would have taken him time to get the Embryos but he managed that... surely a quick grab and he could obtain the BLACK GOO so option

7) would be the Black Goo, and this Tool would allow David many ways to experiment and facilitate many creations, the Black Goo would certainly provide a way to Extract Face Hugger DNA and use it to infect Embryos/Humans.   Or even just use the Black Goo on Humans/Embryos but we have to ASSUME Davids Face Huggers are the greatest Stages of his Experiments and doing the above would be back to Square ONE..   But mixing the Black Goo with Davids Face Huggers would allow him to utilize a lot of his latest creations DNA.

Again option 7 the Black Goo would provide a means for David to create his Queen, in the same manner of how Dr Shaw was most likely used to allow David to created those Eggs.

This is a interesting Question and one i have covered a few times a number of Months Back..

Here are the Logical Options knowing what we know regarding the Franchise.

1) The Queen, in Aliens we have a Queen that lays Eggs, the Question is how do we get to a Queen? This could be something they could tackle in the next movie, i know RS wanted to explore his own Vision the Egg Morph, but i think he saw the Queen as a Ideal Evolution. The Question is does RS go the Queen Route, or are his Hands Tied by FOX?  As Alien Covenant was tailored to please the Alien Fanboys who was disappointed with Prometheus. 

The Problem is we have never seen how a Queen comes to be, this however is also a Big Question and it would be interesting how this is shown if they go this route.   A Lazy Shoe-horn route would be Face Hugger + Female = Egg Laying Xenomorph but then why not many Queens from Females?  Maybe some kind of Hormone/Pheromone is released once a Hive is set up so that a Once a Queen is established Female Infected Hosts will not produce more Queens.

2) Egg Morph, indeed this was the Original Intention, but it is a flawed Procreation Concept, as far as compared to a Egg Laying Queen.  Two Face Huggers that become TWO Xenomorphs that go around Egg Morphing Hosts until David has many Eggs is surely a long winded way for David to obtain Eggs..

A Queen however could lay loads of Eggs, where David could have the Queen Contained...  Also the 1979 Egg Morph we see the Eggs are much Larger than those in Aliens, maybe these Egg Morph Eggs Shrink?  as in AC we see smaller Eggs that may grow.

3) The Combination of the first TWO... in that a Egg Morph is what leads to a Royal Face Hugger or a Actual Queen Organism,  if we consider Alien 3 however then there is a Queen Embryo inside of Ripley, and thus has to be a Royal Face Hugger. (or as per 1, a Female Gestates a Queen).  

When looking and also debating the Subject of Queen vs Egg Morph, i had discussed and i think it makes logical sense that a Egg Morph is the route to a Queen.  Thus it would explain in ALIEN why the Xenomorph did not just capture all the crew so he would have had Dallas, Brett, Parker and Lambert and thus either 4 X Eggs or 2X Eggs and 2 X Hosts.  If the Egg Morph leads to a Queen then the Alien would only need ONE Egg Host and ONE Host for the Face Hugger that comes from the Egg Morph.

The Problem with this is again, multiple Queens, which again Maybe some kind of Hormone/Pheromone is released once a Hive is set up so that a Once a Queen is established Female Infected Hosts will not produce more Queens.

I can see why it was dropped it does not look like a Xenomorph, especially the last few Frames, the first part would be passable and could have been edited to just this shot.

I think they could have Re-shot this and tried to encourage the Dog to make a different movement,  like at the equivalent of a Fast Jog Pace for Humans.

Some nice works here thanks for the Share ATI.

I especially love the first ONE. Oh and the 3rd.

I can only assume we need to look at the Organism as we would a Human who has had the outer Skin Layer removed...

The Hole in the foot is like between where the Archilles Tendon and Peroneal Retinaculum/Peroneus are.  But then the Anatomy of the Xenomorph could be different so it has another lower kind of Fibula and Tibia.

I think we also have to consider this is Sci-Fi and indeed they maybe never 100% stuck to what Anatomically would work in real life, there is a element of Fiction here, and we only need to look at the Actual Alien 1979 Xenomorph and we can ask many Questions about how this could/could-not function as a Organism.

Regarding the Role David plays with regards to the Xenomorph Creation, the movie alone does make it ambiguous but tends to lead towards indeed these are Davids Creations... but they could also be Davids Re-Creations.

The only Flaw with them being Davids Re-Creations would be that he would have had to had knowledge of the Xenomorph Experiments the Engineers conducted but had no real Xenomorph Eggs to work on.. Because if he had Xenomorph Eggs then surely if Davids Objective was to Re-create such a Beast then he would not need to do all those experiments, however he maybe could have wanted to experiment with a Engineer Xeno-Egg and also see what the Black Goo can do too.

The Book does seem to indicate David had Re-Created it, and Ridley Scotts comments regarding Alien Covenant Months prior to Release, did seem to sugest the Crew arrive at a Engineer World and they "Come Across a Evolving Life-Form" and "That they (Engineers) had Made"

This qoute however is ambiguous also as it also could read that the THEY who arrive on Engineer World, Created the Evolving Creature.. which surely does not mean the Covenant Crew, and so it could refer to David and Dr Shaw.....  Also it is ambiguous that even if we indeed do take it as relating to the Engineers, its could merely be in regards to a Evolving Creature (Neomorph) that had evolved from the Black Goo that the Engineers had made.

The closer inspection of the Clues left by David, does seem to indicate those Egg are the result of Davids Experiments and Hybridization of Organisms and the Black Goo/Spores.

Ridley Scotts stance and comments since Alien Covenant do appear to also take us down this Path...

So it looks with i would say 80% Certainty the Xenomorph is a result of Davids Creations.

I think the logical route would be that David somehow uses something to grow the Face Hugger Embryos,  you see the ship had like 1000 other Embryos and we know they wont grow in those little storage capsules.

so if these Embryos are say for Lifestock, then they would need some kind of Chamber/Storage Vessel where they can grow. If the Embyros are Human then they may not need this as they could be implanted into a Female Womb.

Logically it would appear David would therefor use what ever means the Covenant Crew would have used to Grow the other Embryos into the Organisms they are intended to be.  And then David would have a fully grown Face Hugger at his disposal.

We know so LITTLE regarding the Face Hugger, other than the Adult Form grows inside of the Eggs until it is ready and then it awaits for a Host to pass by.  So we DO-NOT know yet the Life-Cycle/Growth of the Egg from when a Egg is small to when it grows and also grows the Face Hugger inside, but maybe we can ASSUME the Face Hugger Embryo Gestates and Grows inside and with the Eggs, and so perhaps only when it is at Fully Grown it can then proceed with the Organisms Method of Procreation and Implant a Xenomorph Embryo.

What i am implying is maybe the small Face Hugger can not implant a Embryo at this stage but it needs to Grow in order to do this.  I know the Organism is consider Perfection and it is all about Procreation, but i just feel the Fact we have Fully Grown Face Huggers in the Franchise and not Tiny Ones leads me to think that there is some purpose for why this Organism has to grow to the Egg Ready Adult Stage.

But we cant rule out a Tiny Face Hugger being able to infect a Host.

But i am going for that David will have to Grow them via what ever means the Covenant Crew intended to grow the other embryos...

A INTERESTING Question would be WHAT-IF all those Embryos are Humans?

And then WHAT-IF they intention is then to Implant them into willing Hosts to carry and grow the Human Embryos (Surrogate Mothers) this however is odd as it makes not much sense to Carry 1000 Human Embryos when you have 2000 Colonist that could be split a near 50/50 Male and Female.  As surely having Sex to Procreate would be the Objective and i think a Mission would have screened and tested the Colonist to make sure a Majority are Fertile and can Naturally Procreate. 

It makes more sense to Carry animals and life-stock in Embryo Form however....

But if we go back and ASSUME these are Human Embryos and if we ASSUME they intention is to be placed inside a Female Surrogate, meaning there is no other ways to Grow those Human Embryos.

THEN THIS..... Leads us to ONE very GRUESOME way that David will have to grow his Face Huggers that would be to have them gestate inside a Female Womb to Grow, and then David can Surgically Extract them... or maybe allow them to Escape from the Human Surrogate Naturally... well UN-Naturally... THIS would be something Truly HORRIFIC

I think I've noticed this in the thread posted with the close up of the rear end of the Alien on the outside of the ship.  I assumed they were like tendons that go from the heel up the back of the calf, but thought it was odd that it is exposed instead of being covered in skin.  You don't really see many voids in body structure in the wild. Would be nasty to get that caught on something while climbing or running.

I also missed that foot.  Not sure if it's rendering error since it looks like the other rear foot has a similar void.

I don't like Daniels and Waterston is just increasing my hate. I think this character is absolutely unnecessary to Alien story.  Maybe if she was portrayed by another actress I would like her a little bit more. I read that Rebecca Ferguson was cast for this role, I would prefer her much more than Waterston.

Something is missing from that foot. I didn't notice until now.

With Giger having designed the derelict, he was also given reign over the planetoid’s surface; a job he found more enticing than designing the film’s titular monster. He told Sci-Fi Invasion! magazine in 1998: “[Designing] the creature is a boring thing! … After modelling you give it to other people [to build]. I liked to do the world the Alien was coming from. It was my world.”

For his world, Giger painted a biomechanical landscape of strange shapes formed out of twisted metal and bone. “I wanted the landscape of the planet to be biomechanic,” said Giger, “a mixture of our technology and some kind of magma, so as to create the feeling that maybe something has happened before on that planet, maybe a technical civilisation has been destroyed.”

In fact, in the original screenplay there were traces of a bygone alien race on the planetoid’s surface – the most notable element being the famous spore pyramid. The characters deduce that the pyramid is a “a pre-technological construction. That slab was engineered by an Iron Age culture at best.” The structure once served as a breeding temple for the planetoid’s primitive beings, who required three sexes to reproduce: two consensual, and one sacrificial – an incubator to carry the seed.

Unique Race: “In Dan’s original conception the Alien race had three entirely different stages of its life-cycle,” explained Ron Cobb. “First, the egg, which is tended by the third stage adults and housed in a lower chamber of the breeding temple. When ready to hatch, the egg is placed in the middle of a sacrificial stone and a lower animal, the equivalent of an alien cow, is then led on to the stone. Sensing the warmth, the facehugger springs out, attaches itself to the animal and deposits a foetus into the stomach.” At some point in the planetoid’s history, a “cataclysm causes the extermination of the adults … leaving no one to tend and nurture the young. But in a dark lower chamber of the breeding temple a large number of eggs lie dormant, waiting to sense something warm …”

 “I would love to have shot it [the pyramid/silo],” Ridley explained, “but the more I thought about it, the more I realized it would have been wonderful in a three-hour version. What finally cracked it was the budget. We just had to get rid of it".

https://alienseries.wordpress.com/2012/10/25/the-alien-planet/

To me, this feature is the most strange

Awesome indeed.

Thanks for sharing Ati.

Yes, he might think to use them as bargaining chip, since he has the only 2. 

For me it was unbelievable that the xenomorph is David's doing. It still is.

Christie - same thing we're doing. We get the fu^k out. 

It was not clear to me how the egg was created. 

Somehow, this is all supposed to marry with Alien and we should see the biomechanical Xeno. That would be fascinting. OT- I am fine leaving the SJ a mystery.

I never considered until now that he would experiment with one and save the other for an experimental reset or a possible bargaining chip for WT somehow.

Yes, there is no way he can fight the engineers with those two things. They must be intended for other purposes. Maybe he wants to trade them with Weyland-Yutani or the engineers. Or he keeps them for fun, to remember the good old times.

What would you do best with the 2 facehuggers?

I might implant one into a host and check results first and then go from there. I would save the other as sort of an archive to start over with if things didn't go as planned.

Maybe that's how eggmorphing works in David's world. Like his chestburster is different from what we already knew. Probably will not find out.

I still don't know if in Covenant he invented the Protomorph or just showed us how the engineers created it.

It's a positive thing she does not get to build the cabin on the lake, it would have turned the film into a Doctor Quinn in space. Or maybe that's the quinn David talks about in Advent. His medicine woman.

Hopefully the winner will post a pic when received. Congrats to whomever won it. Xenowarrior This is not a prank. A similar contest was done last year.

I really liked how Waterson portrayed Daniels. Great character but didn't get a chance to really shine like Ripley did in the past- because it was about David. I think Daniels could have been a similar character to Ripley if written a bit differently.

Johner- What do we do?

Sorry to be OT, but it now seems the facehugger could be used easier since it is tiny and not incased in an egg requiring a victim to trigger it. It's tail in the picture looks only big enough to strangle someone's pinky.

Spearfish I have always been a dog guy and completely agree with your comment with the Rotti too (fist bump).

Ati I agree the dog appeared to be trotting to where it was called- probably food, a great reward. The pics and footage is adorable. The video doesn't really look like it moves with a sense of urgency so maybe that was a reason it was cut ( a spooked cat may have been better). At least there was no wagging tail. 

I actually forgave the CGI because I liked the movie as a whole. My understanding was that there was a decent amount of pracical effects for the Alien. It seems the CGI Alien scenes had a general green look to them.

Apparently Daniels was thought as a Ripley clone, or at least we were supposed to believe it until she gets locked into the pod and David reveals himself. She even used a Ripley line (I got you, you son of a bitch) when fighting the alien in the terraforming bay. But she did not convince me as a next in line of command character. She was not a match even for Oram. Although we are led to be compassionate and care for Daniels from the very beginning of the film, I wanted to care more for her in the end but unfortunately I thought the best of her died when Jacob died. If only she could have been stronger, self possessed,  not crying all the time.

I have been a dog guy for my entire life. I like dogs more than most people.  And they like me - so it works...  So I have an issue with Alien 3 in that the Rottweiler would have killed itself (acid spray) trying to remove the alien.  Dogs fight to the death, and a Rott would not have succome to a neck squeeze, it would have bit the hell out of a throat invador... thoughts? 

dk - An Alien head:

'Obviously Alien 3 does indeed have some CGI work within it, but anyone who knows the film will be very aware that it mostly looks weak and unnatural. I can only imagine how bad an early 90s CGI baby Runner would have looked as it sprinted away covered in blood and guts. So… like any top quality effects team would do in this situation, they explored every possible option, INCLUDING building a suit for an actual dog! In this case a Whippet.

Whippets are very slender dogs, which would have been a perfect choice to place under a rubber suit. They are also gentle, quiet and not prone to barking, which would have also been useful on set. There aren’t many pictures of this plan in action out there, but the ones that have surfaced reveal it was one of the more crazy ideas in the history of cinema. That’s a seriously cute dog, but I think it’s contemplating killing everyone involved, after a long hot shower!

When the dog moved in full costume it basically just scuttled along quite happily in an adorable kind of way, probably heading towards a bowl of dog food off camera. Menacing it was not. The idea was abandoned, and the pooch returned to normal life, blissfully unaware he or she almost found Hollywood stardom!'

https://halloweenlove.com/xeno-pooch-remembering-the-time-alien-3-tried-to-use-a-real-dog-in-a-suit/

What a cute dog and footage! Would like to see WTF was on its head when it was trotting away.

daliens - Perhaps one of the facehuggers has a queen embryo, who knows? The possibilities are endless.

How about a wooden planetoid monastery where technophobic monks live in exile from Earth. It could have xenomorph sheep, headbursters, a farmer synthetic, and a xenomorph that kills monks on the loo.

oh wait ;-)

I guess it is better to have that image your head from above than the one shown when they play the song in Silence of the Lambs Gavin.

IRaptus - You are agreed. :)

MonsterZero - 'She is still alive and in the grave buried!'

Believe it or not, I thought something similar: she is in the grave, she is still alive - but in a cryo chamber. David put the chamber in the grave...

We don't see the cryo pods of the pilot room in Covenant - perhaps it was intentional.

I liked Daniels, but this was clearly David's movie... IF she had defeated David, it would have completely changed her character.(everyone would have screamed 'Ripley clone')

Seeing Daniels kill David would have been cool....(Even just eject it into space....or blast it's head off....etc...)