Comments (Page 624)

@ Thombach

I admit when I make errors, unlike some people on this forum (Kethol). All I need is evidence then I will agree and change my mind. I still think there was 1 original black goo pathogen to start with. I still see no evidence of the original black goo raining down as a "swarm" or anything. But hey. Im sick of debating that point now.

Great topic again Timmy the ultramorph.

I love this one.

A very astute collection you have there Lone. My compliments.

@Sothoth - About time.

The Spaiths script that was released is just one of dozens of drafts he wrote, so looking that one drafts does not give you the full picture. Lindelof also wrote dozens of drafts.

Watch the Furious Gods Documentary on the DVD. There is another chart with the character names from Spaiths script and Lindelofs that shows the trilobite.

"You could say it was a good job oram was captain as the original captain would not entertain that idea. Well you never know someone at WY may or may not have had a hand in that. oooh conspiracy before the Covenant take off !! Fancy that. oh gosh there is a ADF prequel novel surrounding something similar or connected maybe ??"

Great angle sherris. Yes this does help big time with the excitement of the prequel novel coming out next month, thank you so much. There are many areas to assume "ill intentions" in the release of the prequel synopsis.

Awesome details from the Logan script Kethol. I assumed that the Engineers were able to mask their location and David 8 put that to use with the storm to hobble the Covenant crew. It is so interesting to read the script and ponder the thinking that went into developing the concepts that made it into Alien: Covenant.

"That is a perfect shipment for David!  Is he really that lucky?  Hopefully we find out soon!"

That is a great way to put it I Moon Girl. I too think that the Covenant ship may have been a "clinical trial" with David 8 running it for corporate far away from the frontier. And, I agree, David 8 is a weaponized liar.

@ ali81

I agree. but some of those "little mysteries" I was talking about are much more "solved" in this script. It has David spelling things out much more clearly, so I wonder if in later scripts these facts were removed or what?

I'm still trying to work out how the heck what David says about the pathogen, in this script, fits with what we see in the movie.

I think a lot of you are overthinking the Trilobite and Deacon. If you remember in Prometheus, when David had the drop of pathogen on his finger, there were tiny organisms moving around inside. These organisms either destroy someone, mutate them, or infect a part of them that could be used to impregnate another life form to spawn a hybrid. In Prometheus, this was Holloway's seman, in Covenant, these were the Motes. However, in Prometheus, the infected seman took a detour into Shaw's uterus and was grown and incubated, becoming a large, squid-like creature: Merely a larger form of the tiny pathogen creatures. This then "facehugs" an Engineer and spawns an Engineer Neomorph, which we as a fan base have affectionately nicknamed the "Deacon." In Covenant, these tiny pathogen creatures mutate a local plant form to create an airborn shocktroop infection called the Motes; a much more effective transmission system. These infect a human being (accounting for the difference from the Engineer creature or "Deacon") and create a more human like monster nicknamed a "Neomorph" by the production crew. 

David, then, takes the tiny creatures, as he explains to Oram, that he saw on his finger, and experiments on them again, growing and mutating them, once again using Shaws reproductive system, however this time, he Engineers them, instead of natural wild growth, and is able to create a more orderly form in a stronger body than the natural Trilobite, which we now call a Facehugger. Additionally, David's drawings on the Covenant blu-ray confirm this, as we see a drawing of a monsters head that is just like the Deacon, and a monster head just like the Neomorph. He describes these as two variants of the same creature. 

One last hint...the answer is not finding an Engineer alive.

Thank you for your attention in an attempt to solve this vital mystery.

this is why its all over the place yogi. I would tend to go with 'did it make the movie or dvd extras/ directors cut' as canon with regards to Prometheus and AC. the issue is that most people who watch the films don't read the scripts so for the majority, its only whats in the film and extras that exist to them. we read the scripts and look and theories about things they will never get to know about but wer more alien buffs than the majority are. maybe that has a negative effect on us sometimes? we look at early drafts and include parts that didn't go any farther than first draft yet we include it sometimes

I think he was probably referring to the sacrifice to create life in the first place, to spawn Neomorphs (Deacons; yes, they are the same type of creature) to while the slate clean, or (once they figured out how to weaponize it) the "atomization" bombing that we see David use in Covenant 

I agree with the point you make on priority A L I E N 4 2 6. I can only assume that the company would some how synthesize the pathogen from the xenomorph but why not put priority on capturing the black goo unused. 

This Prometheus mission order may help explain a little (see below).

Thank you both A L I E N 4 2 6 and ali81 for your responses.

To answer what you suggested to:

"What is more rare than capturing a xenomorph in the Alien universe?"

It is not the black goo pathogen nor a common agreement between forum members regards an Alien concept.

Yeah while none of them are needed per se, they do nothing but enhance the film, imo. I can't really say I agree with Ridley's "bare minimum" philosophy of editing, as much as I admire the man. Even just somehow integrating "The Crossing" and "Advent" into the narrative of the film would enhance Covenant greatly. As for other scenes, I would also include the Neomorphs stalking the crew through the woods following David, as this shows that they aren't just mindless beasts, and I would have included the scene where the Neomorph goes after the Xeno, as this shows WHY the Xeno is superior. I also think it would've been cool if David had subjugated an Engineer and impregnated him with a Deacon, which he then imprisoned and unleashed on the crew before the Xeno shenanigans, Because the Deacon is basically an Engineer Neomorph (yes it is, Big Dave, I thought I explained this pretty logically and thoroughly XD)  

Oh well, one can dream, I suppose. I think Ridley needs to understand that we don't mind sitting in those seats for 2 and a half hours. 

Holy crap. I've just read the John Logan script. I..might have to change some of my theory on the Neomorph life cycle and black goo......Jeez. this script seems to have those egg sacs coming FROM the black goo itself, then David uses the egg sacs to make the Xenomorph eggs by adding other DNA to them (possibly Shaw's). What is the canon status of this script?

Ah it's so ambiguous in wording. Maybe I'm just reading it wrongly.

Yes ali81. The Engineer is so mad that the humans crashed him that he takes one last look at Dr. Shaw while fighting the Trilobite...so great.

Our First Alien images moved to new topic.

I'm surprised after watching Advent, which is basically what David sent back to Weyland-Yutani, that the company is after the xenomorph more than the Pathogen 

but seriously, what equipment would u take to catch one? don't see a rod n reel doing much

getting everyone to agree on the black goo hahaha

sorry I have made a mistake, it wasn't yogi who commented on the satellites, u have to forgive me im not 100% at the races yet today lol was a long shift last night. kethol kindly mentioned the satellites

@Thomback - Yes, it is.

I'll throw out another quote, this one from screenplay writer Dante Harper.

"In my drafts of the screenplay — and I'm sure drafts that came along later — even if you're keeping things shrouded in mystery, I think you actually have to know what happened, because people can tell when they see a tip of an iceberg but there's no real iceberg underneath it and you really haven't done the math, you haven't figured out what happened. I think I could write a small book about all the things that happened, because we had to figure all that out. So the question became, "How much are we going to learn?" One of the things that was interesting about the final cut of the film is we actually ended up learning a lot less than was possible given the drafts that we had. That was always the question with every draft, "How much can we reveal, how much can we not?" At the end of the day, I think a lot of those decisions got made in the editing room. You can tell the information is there. I think they pulled back in places."

Ridley does not like to spoon feed answers - I know, understatement of the century! - but, he wants us to be doing exactly what we are doing now.

yea ingeneiro, too many arms for him to handle lol the only thing that got me about the trilobite was the size but I guess, with the idea of it impregnating an engineer, it had to be of a believable size for people to accept it could overpower him

Yog Sothoth, that is very interesting to see the horror schedule. I do agree with the changes that made their way into Prometheus.

The Engineer sequence is so great with the Trilobite overpowering him.

thombach, u r correct and I agree completely, what im actually replying to is yogis' post about there being satellites in orbit which are in the early draft john logan script. there is no mention or hint of them in the movie so just because their in that early draft doesn't mean they exist

@Ali81 - David was surprised when he found out it was a colony ship in both the movie and the script.

In the movie it is never said David was trapped on the planet or that he sent the message to lure a ship, but we can presume both from the evidence. Since both of those were made were written in the script, isn't it safe to assume that was the intent?

the john spaights script is awesome, I loved reading it and would have been good to see on screen. alas, it didn't, so nothing in the script, unless it made it into lindelofs script and then the film, can be used to make a point imo 

@ Thombach

That tree is from a slightly altered plan to the Johns Spaiths version. Johns Spaiths version didn't include a "Trilobite", it had the "Sexburster" which became the "Belugamorph". Also there was no mention of "liquid" with Johns Spaiths, or "hammerhead eels". It seems like it's part way between Spaiths' and Lindelof's scripts.

thombach, ah I get what u mean. never really understood that part of the movie tbh. though it does look like the bodies have been purposefully pilled up so someone has done this which may explain the lack of facehugger bodies as their bodies could be elsewhere

@ Thombach

The black goo has a different effect with each genome it interacts with. I think with the engineers it is quickly lethal, but causes them to quickly produce a parasite also, as we see with David's bombing. I think the engineers in the temple suffered the same fate as the ones David bombed. Some of the goo got out and infected them somehow. We don't need to see the parasites lying about..they could have walked off and died some place else.

Soth, that family tree chart is from Johns Spaiths version, which had all the chest burster stuff in it. Lindelof dropped all that and just made the worms mutate. 

I would welcome a director's cut, BUT I honestly thought that none of those scenese were really needed. I think finding a place for the Daniels/Jacob flashback, putting the whole, "The Crossing," prologue in David's flashback, the flare in the hangar, and (if it had been completed) the Neomorph v. Xenomorph deal when the remaining few people escaped the planet could all end up being good additions. Still though, I don't really know how much better the experience would actually be with those additions. 

Ali81, Not the Engineers in the pods. I mean the dead ones in the passages that Fifield and Milburn found. They were exploded from the inside.

yogi, cool. I cant see it as AVPG comes under games and is blocked at my work. but I take concept art with a pinch of salt. to me neither u nor bigdave are wrong, its open to interpretation imo as many things that are concept art don't exist. its concept, such as the balugamorph, all the other concepts of the engineers ships, the first draft etc.

thombach, we don't see inside the other engineer pods in Prometheus so several theoris could be possible here such as facehuggers burned their way into the pods while the engineers slept. the bodies are still inside the pods. the engineers wake, leave the pods and some time later a neomorph or xeno erupts from their chests. this may be what the engineers are running from and would explain the shreek in the holovid the crew see?

@I Moon Girl, no apologies for your long posts please. They are most interesting.

You appear to have constructed some of your argument from the book, which talks about gravitational distortion precluding earlier detection of the energy event (the movie does not). In fact, the book actually contradicts the movie by having Mother declare that she detected an energy burst of heavy particles (no mention of neutrinos at all). Which is somewhat annoying.

In respect of supernovae, they really can be discounted as a source because they are very rare events indeed. In our galaxy of 200 billion stars, it's confirmed they only happen at the rate of about once or twice a century. They are so powerful, that we would see them on Earth when they happen anywhere in our galaxy. Novae, on the other hand, which are known to yield neutrino bursts, are a weekly occurrence.

You might want to check out Ask Science on reddit. There are plenty of knowledgable science professionals there who will tell you what is needed to produce a neutrino.

@ ali81

It's listed with a bunch of Prometheus concept art here - http://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=308

I think the natural evolution was to finish off the series first so id have alien, aliens, alien3 then the prequel. ripley was still alive after aliens and the series was following her story. people may have wanted a different film than what we got but apart from that they needed imo to finish off her story. if resurrection had never taken place I don't think many would have screemed for another film with ripley so the prequel trilogy could have fitted in nicely after alien3

@BigDave - When you said Lindelof quote I thought you were referring to the Lindelof quote we were just discussing yesterday.

The Hammerpedes may eventually infect people with a chest burster or something similar, but I don't think any of the film makers ever said that. If just seems the goo altered their DNA and mutated them into something else.

Something infected all those dead Engineers though. They all had burst holes in the chests. They were all running toward the temple room when they died though. That means the accident that released the virus happened somewhere else in the dome. They were all chest bursted but we don't see dead facehuggers lying around. I think they may have been infected with something small and fast like the mote insects that produced the neomorphs.

@ BigDave

I just watched the goo bombing scene for the 5th time in a row and i can see no evidence of black goo "swarming" or "flying round" engineers. It is raining down on them..because it was dropped on them.

Ok I just found and read the script myself, it does appear John Logan is refering to Macro view in terms of lens, so yes its zoomed in. I didn't have the context because I didn't have the script. So yeah, looks like those mote insects can change shape, in early production of this movie at least. *Shrugs* changes nothing for me, they are still separate from the black goo and the black goo does not swarm.

who made the xeno family tree?

@alienfan1980 - I got the exact same impression when the last Engineer 'Bob' almost seemed to smile at David, before ripping his head off!  Great post, as I also believe the Engineers have a strong aversion to AI, too.  I hope to see more about why they do, in further installments of the franchise.  Up Voted!!