Comments (Page 79)

I don't want to go into too much detail. For me, there is only one Alien film and that is Alien 1979. Of course, I would have preferred it to have been made as it was originally intended. That is, with a pyramid where the germs were. Work by Giger. Explanatory info (hint) about the civilization of the Aliens. A film that would make the indestructibility of this creature clearer. When the fact that the flames from the spaceship's engines did not burn him is no longer enough for some people.  After all, the inspiration for indestructibility is the short story IXTL. And the film was supposed to end in Ripley's death. But it didnt happen so OMG no remake. 

Let whoever wants what they want. For me, all Aliens, Alien3 etc and Covenants and AvP are fun (not “Aliens”) but THEY HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH ALIEN. It is parasitism, including the Covenant. But what doesn't spoil my mood. For me, somebody can make ten more "Alien" films for me.

Alien King can fight with Kong, Godzilla, ressurected Ripley can fight Morlocks. Whatever. Worse than “Aliens” space bugs Vietnam it cant be. 

These are some Concepts for Prometheus..... well Earlier Drafts.. the Pebble Ship was going to be a Juggernaught but they did have some other Ideas and so i think the Engineers/Space Jockey would maybe have a Variety of Ships but they would all have that Similar Aesthetic... which we also see with the Docking Ship in Alien Covenant.

Various Stages of Concept inc from 2014 (Lower Image) seem to Indicate that the Potato Sack Look ;) really is what the Engineers go for....

The First Image TOP LEFT is more Ceremonial Importance but in Alien Covenant we see TWO of the Engineers in Similar.  The TOP MIDDLE Image is Different the Neck of the Engineers seems to be Similar to those from LV-223 and again there is ONE Engineer in Alien Covenant who appears to look Similar and is a more PALE Color with Longer Neck.

Again a LOT of this is to FIT with the Ancient Astronaut/Creators Plot. In Many of the Creation/God Mythos then the Gods look VERY HUMAN.. some they look Different (Indian/Hindu).   We came from them and Created in their Image and so YEAH i guess we LOOK like them...

Some Concepts for AC had indicated beings who look more like Ancient Greek People so we could have GOT that instead..... Lucky we Never.

so its like i had said, it seems the more LV-223 Looking Suits are just what the Engineers would Wear for Specific Tasks and so its NOT what they Wear on a Day to Day Basis...

The Prometheus Engineers did have a Different Skin Texture/Shine more like a Shark/Dolphin like look, but this was Mainly to do with the Pressure Suit they wore... The Sacrificial Engineer looked to have a more Marble Statue like Gloss about him.

So they look almost None-Organic... like Synthetic in their Skin, it think that the Direction they were going was that the Prometheus Guys are Genetically Engineered/Enhanced.

This Cross-Play look is what our Planet 4 Engineers (some) look like, the Difference to the Sacrificial Engineer really comes down to a more Professional Paint Job thats more Glossy... but also the Sacrificial Engineer was Enhanced with Prosthetic on his Body too

The Engineers in Prometheus also had Prosthetics for their Head too... but they could have GIVEN a more Glossy Paint to the Engineers Skin in AC and Contact Lenses to make them look more Close to those in Prometheus.

But i think this was MAYBE nothing to do with Saving Time and Money but a INTENDED look.

However we can still go and be Introduced to other Engineers who Dress more Different.... maybe those LV-223 kinds are NOT all Gone... and IF they are the Fallen Angels..

Maybe they could Dress more in Combination of LV-223 and Hellraiser?

And so other Engineer World inhabitants may NOT look the same as Planet 4, they maybe could have Different Architecture Aesthetic... more of a HR Giger Aesthetic?  And they may Dress in something Different to what the Elders in Prometheus and Engineers in Alien Covenant did?

Its Possible.

In addition to formulating flying space faring xenoships, I was thinging of Space Jockey/Engineer military vessels as well. What would an Engineer Starcraft Carrier would look like?

"Maybe the goo spread some infection, so they ran and tried to get shelter in some room? This is how they find the beheaded Engineer"

Indeed this seems to be the Case.... the Engineers seemed to be Infected with the GOO in someway.... it makes SENSE that they was Running to that Room because when we get to Prometheus we see the Head in the Room is Preserved Well, the Urns in the Room had NOT Started to Leak until the Crew of the Prometheus had Affected the Environment with their Presence.

So maybe this Room was a Pressured Environment or something where the Pathogen would become Inactive or SLOW DOWN...

The Engineer Suit on the other Side was HOLLOW... other Shots of Dead Engineers were HOLLOW... but this could be for Production (Less Time and Less Weight with Hollow Props).  But IF indeed Holloway was in the Process where Eventually he would become like the Sacrificial Engineer, then if you was inside a SPACE SUIT all that would Remain inside is  SOUP!

When the Process of the Chemical Reaction that the Pathogen does in Breaking Down a Organism, then Contained in a Pressure Suit, this could EXPLODE from the Suit and i think that does HELP to Explain the Dead Engineer Suits.

It seemed that RS had indicate what Happened to the Engineers was similar to what was becoming of Holloway.... and so when we look at HOW do those Engineers get Infected?

SABOTAGE does seem the Answer.... IF someone was AGAINST the Mission, they could Arrange a Celebration DRINK...

"here is a Toast my Comrades, soon we Shall Smite those Humans of the Face of their World and Reclaim it"

Otherwise maybe someone had Contaminated their Suits...  as Far as maybe Oxygen or whatever they Need to Survive inside a Suit.

But thats NOT to say what Happened it was a Mystery... they Suffered a Outbreak and that was that... it was Never Indicated as to HOW this Happened.

"When I watch Star Wars I don't think "oh this movie is two hours" I get caught up in the moment, that's what happens when the movie is good"

I think Star Wars has a Advantage that is is VERY WELL KNOWN.... its often that some Movies the Studios do AIM for a Run-Time of 90-110 Min and you do have Movies that have to CUT like 15-30 Min Footage that sometimes is to HELP it get down to Running Time.....

If you have a WELL KNOWN Franchise that you KNOW will Guarantee Box Office then its more LIKELY that more Casual Viewers will go see it, if this is NOT the Case you get Hardcore who would go see it still but some Casual Viewers may be "Nah! i wait for Home Release"

But sometimes then YES you could RISK it... take AVATAR this was a New Franchise and it did Extremely Well and YET it Ran for 160 Min or so.

It come down to say "ok so we gonna have extra 15 Min thats devoted to the Engineers City" its then ok so WHAT do we do with that Extra 15 Minutes and WHAT is this Really going to do with the Rest of the Plot.

"You got to prioritize, and unfortunately they messed up Covenant"

Well the Prequels were to NOT be about the Xenomorph but other Themes and Creation was ONE of those, with the U-Turn to go and SHOW US the Origin of the Xenomorph and Eventually to lead us to ALIEN... it seems that RS was NOT a Big Fan but he Compromised and it would seem that HE or Hill/Giler decided to THROW the Curve-ball that David had Created the Xenomorph and so the PLOT was to be Centered around HIM....

Its NOT to everyones Cuppa Tea.... but you CANT please everyone.. it seems that even the Earlier Ideas for P2 would have seen David use the Black Goo etc to CREATE a HORROR.....

For me i GET IT.... it makes Sense.... but to me i think they should have had David go and Create something thats Different, and also had taken us to where we could have MET with Engineers and other Humans.... they had to be Sacrificed in a Quick Scene so that you can Introduce other Humans to the PLOT!

I dont have much of a Problem with A.I in Movies we all have Different things we like and dont like..... i do think we should have seen more about the Engineers and SET-UP that we would Further Explore then in Future...

You are SPOT ON in that its Hard to Pull Off a Movie if you dont have Good Characters and by that its Usually Human or something you can see some Humanity/Vulnerability with.  And so David just came off as Straight Up Malevolent but he had his Reasons which we NEVER got to Delve into much...

A Movie Needs a Antagonist... but you have to Balance that with the Protagonist and well THIS is a Area it just NEVER WORKED....   it was just Hard to Connect with and be Bothered about Daniels and Tennessee and what becomes of them.  The Plot does-not Bold Well for them..

And so Do You go again and introduce more New Protagonist?   Then if we need TWO more Movies and David will likely be Important to BOTH its then HOW do you have New Protagonist who can Survive another TWO Movies?

I think that there could have been a BETTER IDEA... for a Prometheus Sequel, you dont have to have Humans who come from Earth....

well MonsterZero, go write this alien fanfiction. also with a reboot why would they retain the 70's look?

"That Starshipomorph looks awesome BigDave"

Well the Image was a Idea they was going to USE in the Prequels......

The Idea i had came about in Part from HR Gigers Mural for ALIEN, his Comments about the Ship being Grown and Producing the Eggs... and then THIS from Prometheus.

We have a Number of Creation Myths regarding a Turtle....

The Turtles Shape is something you could Image as a Bio-Mechanical Ship..... and so the IDEA was maybe you have some HUGE BIO-MECHANICAL SHIP that is somewhat like a Turtle... but the Head is Different, maybe something more Closer to what is ABOVE the Doors in Prometheus.

This Enormous Bio-Mechanical Ship could Create say the Derelict Ships, and Store them....

Now Obviously the Turtle Inspired Ship would NOT look Exactly like that, it would be as IF you said to HR Giger right see this Turtle i want you Design me a MOTHER-SHIP thats like a Giant Turtle and Put your Bio-Mechanical Aesthetic to it with Creative Freedom to make it HOW you like.

The Derelict/Juggernaut in the Image is for Reference to the Min Size i would have these Bio-Mechanical Birthing Mother-ship.... maybe even have it 2-3X Larger.

So the SHELL if you would could have like a Turtle Shell meets Xenomorph Queen Head/Carapace look to it, with then some Aesthetic from the Derelict thrown in for Good Measure.

The Main Entrance being a Menacing Head/Face and the Mouth would OPEN UP to allow for Ships to come IN/OUT.

I think if i can WIPE my MEMORY from AFTER to 2005

And all things Considered Before then the Conclusion i Draw would Depend on if we Consider Drafts and Comments by Production Team/Directors.

When i saw the Space Jockey and Eggs over and over... the ONE thing that STICKS OUT is it seems there is a Connection between the Xenomorph Aesthetic and the Ship.  This actually is Because they are HR Giger Designs.

The Eggs/Face Huggers do-not have this Aesthetic they look ORGANIC.

The Space Jockey looks more like either a Space Suit or a Bio-Mechanical being like the Xenomorph.  It seems the PILOT CHAIR was Designed Specifically for the Space Jockey Suit/Being.

So the Origins/Creation of the SHIP and the SUIT/BEING and XENOMORPH must all have a Common Connection.  Therefor i was left to Conclude.

*The Space Jockey Race had Created this Bio-Mechanical Aesthetic and also Created the Xenomorph.

*The Space Jockey Race had Engineered its Technology from the Xenomorph.

*Something else had Created all the Technology, the Xenomorph and either Created the Space Jockey or Enslaved the beings in the Space Suit.

There is the OPTION that the Xenomorph is the Hierarchy here and Creators of it all.... but looking at them in the Franchise they do-not appear to be THIS to me.

So depending on WHICH of those would be WHAT is going on, would Determine as to WHAT the Home-World would be like. Well where you could have Gone if you was to Explore the Origins in Part and Connect to WHY the Space Jockey had the Eggs.

With Ridley Scott he had CLAIMED the Xenomorph was a Engineered Creation of the Space Jockey Race, and to me that MAKES the MOST SENSE...

But then you are LEFT with WHEN/HOW did they Create this Bio-Mechanical Technology and Organisms.

You could still PONDER is there a more ALIEN ORIGIN here?  Or do the Space Jockey just Possess a Technology/Material that is Beyond our Comprehension.

Regarding going to other WORLDS...

We see the Space Jockey (we can Safely Assume) can be Infected with the Egg Cargo and so it would be FOOLISH for them to Engineer/Create and Store them on their Home-World and so i would ASSUME they have another World/Moon/Outpost where the Xenomorph are Engineered/Created and Stored.

The Concept of a Xenomorph Home-world to me THUS comes down to a WORLD where they had GOT TOO and then GOT out of CONTROL....  LV-426 could maybe have become such a PLACE before Hadleys Hope.... but looking at ALIENS it would see that WORLD EXPANSION would come down to HOW MANY HOSTS they can Obtain.

The Xenomorph to me look like a Species that are Limited to Organic Life on a World it can USE and then Requiring someone to TAKE them to other Worlds.

Ridley Scott had informed us they was Biological Warfare and so at the TIME it was against WHO and WHY?

The Xenomorph always to me seemed to NOT be the Ideal Weapon....

The ONLY way it would be so would be IF the Organism has a Limited Life Span, and then if the Space Jockey Suits Protect you from the Eggs.....  But it seemed the Eggs are Sensitive to Vibration/Movement and so its ALWAYS a Question of HOW do you Transport the things!

Of Course there are Flaws/Goofs to this..... Kane had knocked Eggs when he FELL into the PIT OF EGGS..... but the ONLY one that OPENED was when he Approached it Close.    The ONLY thing that makes Sense to me is maybe they Detect CO2 or similar and this Activates them.... having a Space Suit you would have to Expel the CO2 we Exhale out of the Suit or you will Poison Yourself.

But this is going a BIT OFF TOPIC ;)

But Point i wanted to get to is that IF the Eggs are Grown like say a Plant, then maybe you have Small Eggs or a Seed, that you can Transport and Plant them in the Cargo Hold.... and they GROW into the Eggs.

The Problem with this is the Original Idea was a Egg Morph and so then your LEFT with Egg Morphs and HOW do you Transport them?

The Next Problem is ALIENS because we see a Queen can LAY EGGS and so this does give some Credence to THAT is HOW the Eggs came about which would then Indicate that the Space Jockey maybe Obtained them from another World..... but then you have to ASK as to HOW is it the Xenomorph and Space Jockey Ships have that same Aesthetic?

Its kinda the Chicken or the Egg Question.

Alien reboot: I wouldn't touch anything. I'd keep the CRT tech and just update the SFX of the Ash headless sequence.

Aliens reboot : I'd change everything except the basic plot ( xenos versus space marines ) 

Alien 3 and 4 would be completely different because I rewrote ALIENS.

"...homeworld as two separate planets..."

Maybe xenomorphs, like dinosaurs, ruled the Engineers planet before the Engineers existence? Finding the long dead xeno's DNA, they brought them back( Jurassic Park style....Xenomorph land )

Perhaps Engineers and xenomorphs evolved from a common ancestor? ( like apes and humans )

I understand about casual viewers, but maybe run-time doesn't matter as much if you enjoy it. If you do, you'll tell people about it and people might watch it. When I watch Star Wars I don't think "oh this movie is two hours" I get caught up in the moment, that's what happens when the movie is good.

You mention the Amish people, and I understand that, it's just that they could and should have looked more interesting. You might say that this has got to do with connecting humans to the Engineers, but I still think that it could have looked more interesting. Just because the Engineers are tied to humans doesn't mean that they have got to look exactly like us.

About the cathedral and technology, we didn't get to see a lot of the buildings, and it went so fast. When you build a city like that and bring something new, you should at least try to spend some more time focused on it, otherwise it becomes like a bracket. By doing this, you bring something new to the franchise and also give us some time to look at it and wonder what that is about.

Time, but that has got to do with what you are interested in. If you are more interested in a cray robot, then you try to show that and less of other things. You got to prioritize, and unfortunately they messed up Covenant. Covenant could have been better if they reduced the David-stuff heavily and focused on more interesting things. Maybe it was the studio, but I would have liked to see more about the Engineers and not have it shown via David but from humans discovering various things.

You mention protection from the goo, this reminds me of the hologram with the running Engineers. Maybe the goo spread some infection, so they ran and tried to get shelter in some room? This is how they find the beheaded Engineer.

"Something like this in a Scene with that ORREY would have shown off the Engineers Technology, it would give a Insight to Oram that Mankind are NOT alone in the Galaxy and that Edens like Earth are Everywhere....."

That could have been interesting to see and make sense. Maybe they could have gone ahead and continued their search from there. Some of them could have fled the planet that David was one and continued their search. One problem is that they just had one ship to use, but there could have been another one, not sure how that would have worked.

It had problems but could have been so much better. My thing is how do you make a movie like Covenant and still reduce the part of David? I know that the story in Covenant was about him, but the focus was wrong, they should have reduced his part heavily and focused more on the humans. You mentioned that they had a difficult time to come up with a story, but having that time on their hands, they sure should have been able to make something better? Just having time isn't the only thing because it can still end up in a disappointment. There has got to be a way to get a story that is at least decent and characters. Hopefully those that are in charge of it nowadays discuss what went wrong and how they can get it back on track. Maybe they will look at the prequels and what didn't work there. Everyone does mistakes, but what's important is that you learn from them.

Nah, Aliens deals with characters a lot better and also as far as the lore goes the queen is far easier to deal with compared to the David-part. Even though Aliens is a bit 80's I got to say that I like it a lot more than Covenant. You are right about the creature, it was more interesting in Alien compared to Aliens.

Huh, I have the Engineer/Space Jockey world and the xenomorph homeworld as two separate planets in AVPU

That Starshipomorph looks awesome BigDave, better then what i envisioned

hox

Those elements you dislike in Aliens are heavily tied to the Motherhood theme of the movie

"A) If RS had got to make a Sequel to ALIEN he would taken us to the Home-World of the Space Jockey.  He even wanted to do this after ALIENS too.

B) If JC had got to make a Sequel to ALIENS he would have taken us to WHERE the Xenomorphs came from."

Well, then a collaboration would probably work...Home-world of both species are one and the same. Makes sense...Engineers evolved some bug they found on their world. Xeno's infested and the Engineers, busy engineering, lost track of their home-world. Humans are probably going to forget about Earth as we explore the galaxy....?

Yeah its HARD to Fault the Movie..... Its Action Movie but its DONE Very Well...

Some MAY-NOT like it because they DONT like the Queen/Hive Concept, some think it made the Xenomorph to Space Bugs, which it DOES but it goes to SHOW they had a Purpose... (SURVIVE) the None-DC version of ALIEN the Xenomorph was Basically a ALIEN Jason Voorhees

Some Because they always Felt the Xenomorph was more like a TERMINATOR (Near Enough Indestructible).

But thats the Fans for you.... they Each have a LIKE or DISLIKE and a IDEA/WANT for HOW they want to see Sequels... and when a Sequel gives something that GOES AGAINST what they Thought Prior then some Fans can Nit-Pick on a Movie over that.

Some Examples....

*What!  Egg Laying Queen!  Bloody Space Ants!

*What they Killed Ripley!  Stupid Alien 3!

*Hybrid Ripley and that Awful New-Born! NO this is NOT a Alien Movie!

*So the Space Jockey is NOT a Skeleton but Bloody Bald Space Smurfs and where is the Xenomorph!

*WHAT you KILLED Dr Shaw!  And David created the Xenomorph! Nah! this Movie does-not Exist.

And so you will get THESE with ANY other ALIEN Movie or TV Show that we will Ever Get... because Each Movie will LIKELY not go and Give us what we WANT or THINK.

I can Actually Find some Pros/Cons and Decent Ideas in ALL of the Movies (AVPR inc) but some are UNDONE by the Worse Parts... (AVPR Especially)

"Well I was thinking the xenomorphs develop or breed with a space whale-type creature to get their ship and become more less like the zergs"

Well at ONE POINT those working on the Prequels had indicated the Creators (of Space Jockey/Xenomorph)would be some Giant more WHALE like Organism and also a ALIEN looking Variant.

I had a Number of Years ago thought about Introducing something thats ABOVE the Engineers, something more ALIEN and HP Lovecraft.

And so there would be Bio-Mechanical (more Organic though) GIANT Space Craft that are like ALIEN Giant Turtles.  These would CREATE EGGS but they are NOT like in ALIEN but like the ALIEN POSTER.... and these Eggs would have Multiple Uses but would be like the Cosmic Egg and the SOURCE of ALL CREATION.

And so YES some SURREAL additions like you Suggest could be Interesting to Explore.

"Is this considered canon or RS just setting up Prometheus?"

Well its a Process of Evolution of the Story.... we can maybe Forget what Starbeast had Shown as this Story the Pyramid (where Eggs were) and Ship were Separate and so it kinda does-not Apply to ALIEN. (But then some People do-not accept that the Cargo Hold is Part of the Ship).

So its Down to WHO'S STORY do you go for?

1) O'Bannon:  The Eggs/Spores are Held within a Pyramid/Temple and the Space Jockey was a ALIEN Species who just Happened to go to Explore the Pyramid and take back Eggs/Spores to their Ship.

The Pilot/Space Jockey and Ship looked Different and Never had a Similar Aesthetic to the Adult Stage of the Organism in those Eggs/Spores.

2) Ridley Scott: He had Indicated the Eggs were Biological Warfare which he then had said the Space Jockey had Created/Engineered.

He Evolved this to suggest the Eggs were something that Evolved in the Cargo Hold after the Outbreak on LV-223.

3) HR Giger:  He had Suggested that the Ships are Grown and that the Ships actually Produce the Eggs (The Egg Silo did this before being Merged as  the Derelict Cargo Hold).

But he Never Really touched on the Space Jockey Connection, just indicated it was a Space Suit, and the Occupants were Bald Humans who would Sacrifice themselves to Procreate the Xenomorph. However its NEVER indicated as to IF he Felt the Space Jockey are Servants to the Ships (or its Creators) or they (Space Jockey) Created the Ships.

4) James Cameron: He left it more Unknown as he Never went to Explain the Derelict/Space Jockey.  But he did seem to indicate he Felt the Pilot was a Slave to the Chair and is Merged Permanently to it.  But he seems to Indicate the Xenomorph as a Existing Species.

And so in this Case the Space Jockey Race just saw the Eggs/Xenomorph as Useful as a Biological Warfare.

5) Jon Spaights: He had indicated the Xenomorph Eggs are a Genetically Engineered Bio-Weapon, his Story seems to Imply they are Many Variants that were Engineered/Created from a Organism the Engineers had Encountered and USED their Creation Tool to make Weaponized Organisms.

Jon Spaights does-not cover much about the Xenomorph just that it is a Designed Killing Machine by the Engineers.

6) The U-Turn:  That is the Plot of Alien Covenant which indicates the Xenomorph Origins come from David, as he takes what the Black Goo had Created and using the Goo he Mixed DNA etc of Many Organisms to eventually Create the Protomorph (First Incarnation of the Xenomorph).

But when we are TALKING about the OT.... then the Prequels do-not really come into Play.

And so to Answer that Question of "Ridley Scott in 2012 had said that the Space Jockey was a Engineer, he had became Infected with his CARGO,"

Then Ridley Scott had Felt the Space Jockey Race had Genetically Engineered the Xenomorph Eggs to then be USED for Biological Warfare.

What he Changed by the Time he Finished Prometheus was to Suggest that after the Outbreak on LV-223 then within Few Hundred Years that something had Evolved in the Cargo Hold and it had GOT TOO the Space Jockey/Engineer Pilot

So the Pilot had been Infected (Unintentionally) by his Cargo, which was EGGS but then after Prometheus we have RS being more Vague... just something Evolved in the Cargo Hold.... this could mean that something had

*Evolved to Change into Eggs (then a Face Huger infects SJ).

*Evolved to then Create/Lay Eggs (then a Face Huger infects SJ).

*Something Evolved and Infected the Space Jockey and then the Result had then Laid those Eggs.

Those could be Likely but then again RS was Vague... and Never indicated anything more than something in the Cargo Hold had Evolved and Infected the Pilot.

But again the TOPIC is mainly looking at say to Discus either.

A) If RS had got to make a Sequel to ALIEN he would taken us to the Home-World of the Space Jockey.  He even wanted to do this after ALIENS too.

B) If JC had got to make a Sequel to ALIENS he would have taken us to WHERE the Xenomorphs came from.

Before AVP then both had been thinking about WHERE would you go for another ALIEN Movie.... but then FOX had wanted to make AVP instead.

When 2009 came around then the Prequels that Developed seemed to look at something more AKIN to what RS had/would have done Before.... only that you would GO TO where the Xenomorph Came from...  (Research/Weapons Facility that was SET UP on LV-426 (changed to LV-223).  And then a Sequel would have likely GO TO where the Space Jockey/Engineers came from.

Aliens is an excellent film, and not just for the action sequences. You’re knee-deep in memorable characters, for one thing. To see Burke’s eyes darting about while he schemes is nothing to do with popcorn. You’re not going to spot that on the first viewing. I have watched Aliens numerous times. The dialogue is generally outstanding and - for its time - the special effects are pretty good.

The only things I really don’t like are

- rear screen projection, which is all too obvious at times

- the mushy conversation between Ripley and Newt when she’s tucked up in bed

- timing error when Burke gets surprised ahead of the vocal he reacts to

- the Queen peering around a corner at Ripley - not convincing

- Newt calling Ripley “mommy” near the end

Small niggles for a great movie. There are just too many good things to mention to make Aliens a bad movie.

Damn I haven't reached those levels

Big Dave I think I have been unconsciously borrowing some of your ideas in regards to the starbeast for my fanfiction because that is how I was going portray them.

Well I was thinking the xenomorphs develop or breed with a space whale-type creature to get their ship and become more less like the zergs

I'm not the biggest ALIENS fan...But it's a AWESOME movie.

I'd reboot it in a second and change much of it....BUT It's my go to action / popcorn flick by a country mile!

Wish I could watch it on the big screen again ( and in 70mm FILM not digital! )

Were the eggs the cargo? Or were the eggs produced by the queen that burst from the SJ? 

This is really the RS or Cameron / Fox plot genesis question.

Some some clarification, canon wise, would be nice.

"Ridley Scott in 2012 had said that the Space Jockey was a Engineer, he had became Infected with his CARGO,"

Is this considered canon or RS just setting up Prometheus?

Such a good game. There is a lot of Engineer's locations and decorations. Even better than in the films.

Statues, gardens and palaces, underground catacombs with beautiful fire/magma "forges". And, of course, the biomechanical spaceship docks and ship with gorgeous ladder .

I think the Xenomorph is a Flawed Species... as a Organism, it depends on HOW LONG do they Live for?   The Xenomorph requires a HOST and this becomes its FLAW.

When a World has NO MORE HOSTS.... and IF the Xenomorph do-not have Space Ships and the like, then ONCE they DIE then thats IT.... all that Remains would be the Eggs.  

But this makes more Sense if its a Engineered Bio-Weapon/Killing Machine.

With Camerons Hive Xenomorphs they are more like Intelligent Hive Insects like Ants, Bees or Termites... but with the FLAW of Needing a HOST....

But as i say, you have to look into them and Uplift/Evolve them a BIT MORE.

Are they Intelligent Enough to Capture and Breed Hosts?  Do they have Hosts on their Planet they Leave to Procreate and so are Careful to NOT let their Hosts Numbers Dwindle?  For Example if Vampires were Real and they NEED HUMAN BLOOD from the Living to Survive then IF they Turned the Population to Vampires with NO more Humans to FEED from then the Vampires could be DOOMED.

The Xenomorph Idea came from O'Bannons Starbeast and this Species were Civilized they BUILT the Temples/Pyramids, and its LIKELY they could Traverse the Stars? Or if NOT they Certainly are more Civilized/Intelligent than Camerons Xenomorph.

The Starbeast either had Abandoned their Ritual Birthing Temples, or they came from another Planet and used LV-426 as Birthing Place and they Never Returned or they Simply Lived on this World and RAN OUT of Hosts.

so IF we saw Cameron go with the Xenomorph being a Pre-Existing Organism and he would TAKE US to their Home-world then he would have to Consider some of the THINGS i Mention above...

Or have it the Xenomorphs are IMMORTAL. (this does-not mean they cant be Killed).

so this is WHAT i mean about you have to UPLIFT/EVOLVE them as in Beyond just Procreative Survivalist like Ants/Termites with a Curse of Needing Hosts.

None of this is Necessary if you have it they are a Engineered Creation... but this does-not mean you have to have them as a Creation of the Engineers (or David).  I feel that SHIP has SAILED.... due to Alien Covenant (unless we dont count this as Canon).

You could have a Starbeast Organism who are Civilized to a Degree, who Create the Xenomorphs for a Purpose and Enslave the Space Jockey to Carry them to World to World..... but again with the Prequels i think this IN PART is a SHIP thats SAILED.

But you could have a Starbeast who either Enslaved the Engineers Ancestors but they Rebelled and Overthrown their Masters, and then Re-Engineered their Tech and Genetics..... which leads also to LV-223.  David would then have Perfected the Engineers work to get something more Closer to what the Starbeasts were.

Or you have it the Engineers had Encountered the Starbeast or a Race that Predates the Xenomorph and the Engineers had began to Experiment with the Genetics of this Organism for some Reason.... again  David would Further Engineer the Work to Create the Xenomorph which is more Closer to their Ancestor/Starbeast.

But all of THIS is NOT quite on Topic...

The Topic is to see what Route to had Taken prior to the Prequels and so in this Context its DAVID WHO?

And so by that IF they Never Made AVP and Decided to go back to ALIEN then FOX maybe would have Consulted either RS or JC to see where they would GO NEXT.

When it came to 2008/2009 then FOX had decided to go back to ALIEN but it seems this IDEA was a going back to the Derelict (or another World) (not sure after ALIENS or prior to ALIEN) but Spaights said the idea they had was VERY MUCH like a ALIENS 2

And so he then Pitched his ENGINEERS Plot which is something that RS was interested in 10 Years Prior (to Explore/Emphasis on the Space Jockey Race).

Well this is the OP own Opinion.

I think ALIENS is FAR from the Worst Movie in the Franchise, it is POPCORN but it shows you have to do Popcorn Action Well....  I had a Good Amount of Good Characters, Story, Execution, Pacing was Good the Effects were Good.  Its Hard to Fault about from it is merely Popcorn Action and maybe JC had Evolved the Xenomorph to what RS would NOT have.

"The end was supposed to be clear, Ripley was killed by Alien"

This was NOT Part of the Drafts, the Drafts from 1st we had a Single Survivor a Male called ROBY..... this was Changed to Female called RIPLEY for the other Drafts and the ENDING has always been they Survive and the ALIEN gets Blown out of the Shuttle/Airlock.

Ridley Scott had Proposed that the ALIEN should KILL the Survivor Ripley and then Imitate her Voice.... but to be Fair that would have been a Bit Silly and MOST Movies have Survivors.  And so this Idea was thrown out.

"But the worst of all is Cameron's Ripley-Rambo"

Ripley seemed a Tough Character a Female who takes NO BS! Her Experiences/Trauma  did make her into that Rambo Ripley, but the Story Arc seemed OK... i think YEAH was a BIT of a Rambo in HOW she Managed to get to Newt and See Off the Xenomorphs on her OWN that the Marines had Struggled and Most Died trying to do (Face the Xenomorph Threat).  So yeah i think that Scene was a bit OT.

"An indestructible monster has changed into a weird beetle, which can be shot with a shotgun"

Its Hard to say, as the Xenomorph has Acid Blood and this is WHY the Nostromo Crew would DARE NOT to Wound it.... and some Shotguns can PUT A BIG HOLE in any kind of Organism at Close Range!   The Xenomorph did seem more Fodder in ALIENS but we are Dealing with more Open Field of Battle than the Confines of the Nostromo, and the Marines are WELL TRAINED and Armed with Weapons with Explosive Rounds.

The Xenomorph in ALIEN was Tough but we NEVER saw it Attacked Really, so its HARD TO SAY.... but i Doubt it was NO TERMINATOR..... it did seem to NOT be Wounded by Fire though... same we saw in Alien Covenant too.

"a planetoid of 1200 km is a great planet"

This came from ALIEN as well as a 2 Hour Rotation, which makes LV-426 Tiny and also with that Rotation to Size Ratio.... well the Gravity would be Immense... maybe they should have said it was 12'000 KM with a 8 Hour Rotation that would make more Sense.  But this Nonsense came from ALIEN inc the Earlier Drafts.

"That's why no film from this "Alien Universe", either AvP or A: Covenant, is a problem for me. After that awful nonsense, "Aliens"

I would go and Watch say ALIENS and then AVPR back to back and then see how you Feel ;)

"UPLIFT/EVOLVE the Xenomorph"

I'd keep them intelligent but anti-technology, almost a cult like hatred of mechanical things. 

"Eggs as Pre-existing "

Yeah, I'd go with this. Queens producing eggs make more sense then David / Engineers manufacturing them. 

Maybe on Planet Xeno, xenomorphs are a good thing, used like Wolves to thin the heard ( a really nasty planet ), but some how an egg or two got offworld?

The race who cultivates the xeno might be oblivious to the fact that their creation is out there.....No different than if an ancient species visited Earth 70 million years ago and grabbed some T-Rex eggs, Earthlings would be like?!

Kudos to the Poster of the OT (Nice Artwork too).

Seems they was Indeed Very Correct as this Project is what has become Aliens Fireteam Elite

"Leave the derelict and SJ alone."

I think IF we saw Ridley Scott have made the Sequel to ALIEN, or even the Idea he had after.  He seemed to be Interested in Explore as to WHO the Space Jockey was, and while it may have Indicated to HOW/WHEN/WHY the Derelict had the Cargo of Eggs, it seemed that RS would have wanted us to go to the Home-World of the Space Jockey which at the Time may have been Envisioned as a World that would have had more of that HR Giger Aesthetic... Hence the Image i Posted.

And so Ridley Scott would have Explored our Space Jockey Race more.

With James Cameron it seemed we would have been taken to a World that would have been TURNED into Hive and have Millions of Eggs..... And so his Idea could have Turned into "Just another Big Hunt" and so YES could have been more a Star Ship Troopers.....

The Question is would you UPLIFT/EVOLVE the Xenomorph or would they be Merely Bi-Pedal Humanoid in Shape... Space Termites/Ants?  And i you show they can Create Technology and so we see Bio-Mechanical Space Ships that are Piloted by Xenomorphs etc..... then again this could also be a Little on the Starship Trooper side.

Then its IF he would have shown us WHAT the Derelict is and WHAT the Space Jockey was doing with the Eggs?  It seems Cameron sees the Eggs as Pre-existing before the Space Jockey ever came into Contact with them, and so the Space Jockey had the same Intentions as the Weyland-Corp....  well for a Advanced/Ancient Race it makes Little Sense to see the Xenomorph Eggs as Purely a Weapon.

The Derelict and Xenomorph have some Shared Aesthetic and so you would have to ASSUME...

1) The Space Jockey Race had Created the Derelict and Xenomorph.

2) The Xenomorph had Created the Derelict and the Space Jockey are a Enslaved Species or a Creation of the Xenomorphs.

I think that RS idea would have gone for (1) and JC maybe it would have touched on (2) but i think he would Overlook the Aesthetic Similarities and just had the Space Jockey as a Race who had come down to TAKE the Eggs.

"Collaboration? I doubt that would have worked"

Well it did seem that RS and JC was considering it before FOX had gone for making AVP Instead... i think if you Combine both ideas.... then you have BOTH of the Worlds to Explore...

The Space Jockey being a Race who Encountered the Xenomorph (or its Ancestor) and then USED it to Re-Engineer Technology and Genetics from...

"I guess i'm the only one here that doesn't mind a more starship trooper approach to the series"

I think its Very Much like what we see in the Comics which Works... if you do this on the Big Screen then you could END UP with Similar to Starship Troopers, and its NOT that this would NOT work... its can you have like 2-3 Movies that are Similar....

Like say a Aliens 2, Aliens 3 and Aliens 4....... i think that can get Repetitive but thats just my Personal Opinion.

I have Adjusted a Few Scenes from Prometheus like it would look if they used Re-Size Special Effects and the Result gives us a 10ft Engineer.

I think they had this in Mind but then for sakes of Time and Practicality they just went with the LIVE SHOT of the Actors rather than having to Re-scale/Edit the Engineer.  This would add TIME and Budget and Ridley Scott is a FAN of using as LESS after-affects as Possible and trying to CUT COSTS (Why Half the Space Jockey Pilot Chamber and Egg Chamber Scenes Re-Used most of the same SET).

But as we have Discussed on here it seems RS is Happy with the End Product, and NOT every Man is 5ft10 some can be 7.5ft even 8ft... and so we could have 9-10ft Engineers..... Especially if the LV-223 Guys are Genetically Enhanced/Engineered.

"hibernation chamber"

Yes thats a Good Point, this was Clearly made to FIT the Actor Ian Whyte inside and so would Accommodate a up to 8ft Being. (likely 7.5ft)  again these Cyo-Pods where in the Pilot Room for the sakes of Time/Budget as in the Earlier Drafts the Engineer awoken from  another Area and went to a Device to be Fitted into the Space Jockey Suit.

Its just Easier to have Combined the Cryo-Sleep Pods into the Pilot Chamber as far as Budget and Time, and WHILE this makes another Aesthetic Difference to the Derelict we have to Remember the Derelict is likely a Different Model so they are Similar but there Sizes are Different and Internal Layout would be a Little Different.

I would love to see either the xenomorph homeworld or the engineer's homeworld.

I guess i'm the only one here that doesn't mind a more starship trooper approach to the series

Yeah I thought about that....( Maybe a teenage Engineer in Prometheus? 1000 year lifecycle? 200 years till full size...). .....But with the SJ chair fitting him and the hibernation chamber fitting him, I dropped that idea. Unless the ships are grown for you? 

I love RS...But I'm going with Cameron with this one.

Leave the derelict and SJ alone. ( Just another race of space flyers that encountered the Xeno )

Planet xeno sounds like Star Ship Troopers...so I'd take the plot somewhere else...

Collaboration? I doubt that would have worked. Cool to discuss though!

Yeah sometimes you are STUCK with Limitations of Movie Making at the Time, they could have had Prometheus go and USE like CRT but then in the Year 2090 surely our Space Ships would NOT be using CRT... Especially a Flag-Ship.  And thats Basically as to HOW he Explained it... the Nostromo was Basic and NOT a Flag-ship.

I dont think RS would loose Sleep over how OUTDATED the Tech in ALIEN looks for 100 Years from NOW... and i think he would also NOT be Concerned with say HOW the Derelict and Juggernaut and Space Jockey Suits look slightly Different.

But in 2010-2011 you have the Technology to Portray a 10-12 Foot Space Jockey Race, and they had Considered this even as Production Began..  But seems they Decided to just go for USING the 7ft Actors and Play with Camera Angles etc to make them seem Taller......

They could have used Special Effects like we have seen in Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit and in Game of Thrones, but RS is a FAN of using as Less as Possible and having a 7ft Actor who can Directly Interact with the other Cast was his Preferred Choice.

It seems he NEVER had the Intention to SHOW US the Space Jockey event at the Time of Prometheus and so some MYSTERY would have been KEPT.

Where he could have said something like.... so NOT every Human is 6ft.... so NOT every Engineer is 8ft and so we can have some Taller than Average Men at 7-8ft then maybe the Engineers can have Taller than Average Engineers at about 10ft?

"a BIG MISTAKE was that the Space Jockey looked like BONE COLOR"

I think this only applies if the filmmakers revisit the derelict on LV-426. If David opens the seat and we see a 13 ft. mutated Engineer ( the bones at least ) then we'll know.....But if the derelict is rebuilt Prometheus style...Then..*shrug*

The difference is much easier to explain then the difference between the Nostromo CRT tech and the flat panel Prometheus/Covenant tech.

We discussed if RS would do CRT's for Prometheus...Wonder if he would change the SJ on lv426?

Where's Gavin? He had some great derelict insight.

"It'd be cool if David would narrate the history of the Engineers. He must know a bit about them after ten years?"

I think he would Learn Quite a LOT as Ridley Scott had said the Cathedral is where the Engineers had STORED all their Knowledge like a Giant Repository of Knowledge.

It would have been Great to see and Learn more about the Engineers for sure, we do have Ridley Scott and also Jon Spaights has mentioned Quite a Bit about them. And Creation/Evolution and Genetic Engineer seems to be their MAIN OBJECTIVE as Opposed to Creating Horrors to USE to Destroy Life.

"The Juggernauts are both alive and mechanical"

Yes Michelle thats what it seemed from ALIEN.... it was that Strange Merger of Organic and Non-Organic, were you had a Hard Time to FIGURE OUT as to what is Organic and what was NOT... the same can be said about the Xenomorph.

The Juggernaught and Engineer Suits (Space Jockey) did look much more Mechanical and ONLY a SMALL % Organic looking..... again it was a Creative Decision to TONE DOWN the HR Giger Aesthetic.   But Ridley Scott would Claim the Differences are down in Part that in Prometheus they are Pristine/New and in ALIEN they are Degraded and Worn.  But he also indicated that the Ships are Different Models, and One being Older than the other.

I think the Parts of the Aesthetic the Ship looked to have Bone Structures but the Color was Grey-ish and so Matched the Xenomorph to a Degree...  a BIG MISTAKE was that the Space Jockey looked like BONE COLOR...

The Prometheus Chair is a Uniform Grey Color.... the ALIEN one we see some of the Chair is that kind of Color, but some of it has become Washed Out like Bone Color and so is the Space Jockey Suit......  Yet the Rest of the Derelict seems to Maintain that Grey-ish Color.

There is NO real Explanation for this... its something they DONT think we would even Consider to ASK about..... but you could FIND a Explanation well come up with ONE.....  being Thousands of Years Old etc and Derelict could Explain that.  Maybe being a Mix of Organic and Synthetic/Mechanical could too.

This becomes a Problem with the AC Plot.

As far as them being LIVING.... well YEAH thats what HR Giger had thought, he also said he FELT they was GROWN and had also Mentioned about them being like PLANTS.

But it seemed they Steered away from a LOT of ideas of HR Giger and his Aesthetic to a Degree...

Thanks for sharing the information I can't wait to see it!

Alien Covenant is better than Prometheus because it is less complicated to follow, and there is less inconsistency in the situations and behaviors of some characters. On the other hand, the film tends to be a little too predictable, and some characters are more highlighted than others, who are more of the figuration