I totally agree BigDave.

It was definitely not a natural cave. It's a creation of the Alien civilization. That's how I see it. I used to think it was inexplicable. Since reading the original script, I understand that it's a remnant of an Alien civilization that disappeared xy years ago but has preserved its future descendants in the form of embryos in the hope of rebuilding itself.

Perfect work and pictures, by the way. I just don't see the one above analyzing the size of the derelict. Ipad doesn't show it.

4xenotaris

I don't understand why you're writing this. Alien is a movie that has a beginning and an end. That's how the story was written, the script was written and the movie was made. A beginning and an end. It wasn't the first episode of the series.

It's hard to see how you'd feel if someone made a "sequel" to Hobbit and Smaug suddenly rose from the dead and ate the expedition. Or it turns out that there are more dragons in the cave and a vicious fight starts in which Godzilla goes up against the dragon. That's how those other Alien movies affect me.

But in the Alien universe, any nonsense is allowed. What would have infuriated LOTR fans, with the directors alien “sequel”  is every stupidity ok. Even space pirates or whatever the hell the Alien Ressurection crew is. I am affraid but curious too what will more in Alien universe  for crazy things.

I know that Kane Described the Cargo Hold as a Cave... seems like a Cave of some Sort (if i remember Correct) but we can Clearly see as he Descends that its Walls are NOT what you would Consider a Cave..... However we could Assume this is some Underground Storage Facility that was Carved Out of a Cave.

There have been Numerous Debates on here that KANES Comments and the Size of the Egg Chamber mean that its Definitely NOT Part of the SHIP..... and well YES it was Supposed to be Separate.

Actually though if the SHIP was 20ft Taller it would have FITTED with Ease....

With ALIEN we see the Crew Enter via the Openings but we do-not see a Minute by Minute Footage... well Kane Climbs up to the Pilot Chamber... it may seem he has NOT really Climbed that FAR.... but we maybe had NEVER see his Full Accent.

The Concept Work indicates the Pilot Room is Positioned below the Windowed Dome at the Top of the Derelict.

And so in the Image Above i have Scaled the Shot to match the Size of the Crew Compared to the Opening of the Derelict and Positioned the Pilot Chamber to a Approx Position.

There is Considerable Space Under the Pilot Chamber but its NOT QUITE Big Enough for the Egg Chamber but its Certainly by No Means as SMALL as People think (Derelict)

"The original idea was clear. The alien ship landed as an exploration vehicle much like we did on the moon. It discovered a bizarre formation full of eggs. One of the explorers was attacked by a facehugger and brought the embryo into the ship"

That was the Original Idea indeed...

However we have to Remember that the Story/Concept had Changed as we go on.

At the TIME we had Separate Pyramid, then YES the Space Jockey to speak was the Skeletal Remains of None-Human looking Alien Species.

I am sure that MOST would Agree that HR Gigers Monster and Ship are WHAT really Stood Out....  but i dont think you can then IGNORE that the Egg Chamber has that same Aesthetic....

But as Dr Shaw had said "because that's what I choose to believe"

Once they had Started the Production the Concept of a ALIEN Species who are LONG GONE and all that Remained are their Egg/Spore Stage in their Birthing Ritual Pyramid...  that was Discovered by another Unrelated Alien Species who went to Investigate and got Infected.....

Had Changed to make the Once merely a Explorer who had Turned Up at the Wrong Place/Time....  to these Species being Connected to the Actual Organisms that was then MOVED into a Egg Chamber/Silo.

The Connection was Never Answered on Screen...as of ALIEN

You dodge my question and you seem like the type of person that would rather that Frodo never complete his journey to maintain the mystery or Harry Potter should never complete his tenor at Hogwarts or the rebels don't advanced the war against the galactic empire beyond the destruction of the death star or that we shouldn't learn how the dinosaurs are in Jurassic Park? 

love this game so far, great killing experiences with online gamers. Not much hassle or strategy to deal with, a great time killer and immersion to the Alien universe. 

I guess I don't approach it so scientifically and I don't try to search and uncover the mystery. My view is (after xy time spent searching for "how it actually happened" ) without trying to explain it.

The original idea was clear. The alien ship landed as an exploration vehicle much like we did on the moon. It discovered a bizarre formation full of eggs. One of the explorers was attacked by a facehugger and brought the embryo into the ship. There, a familiar Nostromo scenario  occurred. The alien wiped out the crew, no matter how large. In Ash's words, he was indestructible. Okay maybe incredibly resilient, capable of constant self-repair. There were hints in the pyramid that it wasn't an animal. But it happened may be milions of years in past.

There just wasn't the money to carry out the plan. And no time. They started trying to figure it out. Idea after idea after idea. But it all came down to a lack of money and time. Besides, there were obviously contradictions. It was a cauldron of ideas and Alien was out of control. There were a lot of crazy ideas, and in the end, miraculously, a unique idea was born. As the ideas crossed there remained an unfinished idea for Alien germs from Dallas and Brett. It was deleted.

But another time the idea of alien bio-weapons left only Ripley's sentence. But the result was a mix that was ultimately perfect. No visible fight just a hint. Dallas' gun was empty. He had to fight the Alien and the flamethrower wasn't enough. The flames of the rocket won't burn the Alien. Another hint that there was a fight, but the flamethrower wasn't enough. Ash's words about not being able to destroy the Alien (with the crew's weapons?) at least suggest he was pretty solid.

There's just a lot of ideas coming together here and none of them finished. And that's why so many possible interpretations. Ultimately, Scott used them in Covenant. Too bad there won't be another Covenant where Scott MAY have followed through on his idea. Maybe he doesn't want to and wants to leave room for the imagination.

The result of Alien is simple. X possible hints as it were, no instructions. And that is the correct conclusion. You, the viewer, have the imagination to make up your own mind. Choose your own path of how it was. My way is based on the fact that the original script was true to the Alien structure. The alien ship hit here by accident, and the crew disposal scenario. The beacon sending the message is evidence of that choice. DON'T ANYONE LAND HERE!!

That's enough for me to rule out the idea that ship was carrying the eggs himself. The structure above dead extraterrastrial is probably the device the crew used to remove the embryo from his body. And it looks bizarre and big? Well, Giger. The sentence about the armaments is either a trick question or should have been cut but was left in. We don't know what the time pressure was to reshoot the scene. Personally, I think it's a deliberate dead end. Ripley doesn't say a word in her broadcast about what she experienced. The only warning. Yet she knew it was a matter of chance that they would find her and she knew there were a number of Alien embryos and a beacon on the planetoid. It may be sending a warning, but...

Well, I'll leave it at that. I'm not supposed to learn anything except to marvel at the perfect horror movie. A stunning Alien. A fierce battle with an unequal foe, like an open-ended supernatural horror movie. And that's the way it should be. Why Scott went crazy and started making these weird explanations is a mystery to me. Potential for product? The need to undo everything everyone else has done and laugh at everything that came after Alien? Only he knows. All I know is that he absolutely failed.

I prefer the xenomorphs being bioweapons for an ancient war between the Engineers and whatever their enemy or enemies were

The aesthetics of the derelict ship and egg chamber I believe connects the two scenes together. I mean why would an unrelated cave that resembles the interior of the derelict not be connected to the Space Jockey? You can't just say its HR Giger's style and leave it at that! Because why isn't the entire planetoid not having the same Giger style? Hmmmm?

SCREEN RANT

Alien Just Revealed the True Cosmic Purpose of the Xenomorphs

Marvel continues to expand the mythos of the Alien franchise and now it has been revealed the Xenomorphs serve a larger, cosmic role.

BY SHAUN CORLEY
PUBLISHED 6 DAYS AGO

Warning: contains spoilers for Alien #6!

While Xenomorphs are regarded as ruthless killing machines throughout the galaxy, Marvel's Alien comic has revealed a deeper, more cosmic role for the creatures. In Alien #6, on sale now in print and digital, Gabriel Cruz learns the truth about his visions of 'the Woman in the Dark,' and it leads to a huge revelation about the Xenomorphs.

Earlier this year, Marvel launched a brand-new line of comics based on the Alien films. These comics have expanded the mythos, introducing the only person to ever survive being implanted with a Xenomorph embryo: Gabriel Cruz. While the embryo was inside of him, he had a vision of a horrifying figure he called 'the Woman in the Dark.' Years later, Cruz’s only son, Danny, leads a raid on a Weyland-Yutani facility in Earth orbit. Cruz is sent to the station to bring his son home, accompanied by a Bishop-model android. Cruz learns that the corporation was experimenting on captured Xenomorphs, hoping to weaponize them. Naturally, the Xenomorphs break free and wreak havoc on the station, and Cruz must escape the outbreak. While on the station, Cruz learns more about his vision from years earlier, and it leads to a stunning revelation about the Xenomorphs and their role in the universe.

Written by Phillip Kennedy Johnson, with art by Salvador Larroca, colors by GURU-eFX and letters by Clayton Cowles, the issue sees Cruz, Bishop and Danny’s girlfriend Iris try to escape the facility. Bishop approaches Iris, who grabs a gun and opens fire on him. Bishop seems to kill her, shocking Gabriel, as Bishop models are not permitted to kill. It is revealed that Iris is a rogue synth of unknown origin. She says that, thanks to Danny, Earth will become a "post-organic Utopia." Just as Cruz goes to finish her off, she tells him she has information about his visions. He presses her, and she reveals that humans were not the first organics to attempt to leave their solar system; when organics become "arrogant enough" for space-travel, they find "Prometheus' cleansing fire" waiting. Each species tries to first harness the fire, and then use it to augment themselves. Iris tells Gabriel that the Woman in the Dark is the unavoidable result of his species attempting to harness the powers of the Xenomorph.

Iris' beliefs about the Woman in the Dark aside, the revelation that the Xenomorphs are the "cleansing fire" of the universe is a huge one, hinting that the creatures have a much larger role in the cosmic scheme. This was a theme of 2012’s Prometheus, a prequel to the original Alien film, and this story serves as a callback to that movie. But while Xenomorphs have long served as a metaphor for human overreach and carelessness, their role in the fall of multiple spacefaring civilizations makes it clear that they're not just a hurdle for humanity, but a galactic test for any sufficiently advanced civilization.

The Alien comic just turned the Xenomorphs into the answer to the Fermi Paradox, explaining why organic species don't survive past leaving their home solar systems. This gives the Xenomorphs a cosmic role as a deadly test humanity is likely to fail like many civilizations before it - one that, should the human species fail, will remain to act as the extinction event for whatever new alien race happens across them next. Marvel continues their expansion of the Alien series with the revelation that the Xenomorphs serve a much higher purpose in the universe than originally thought - an idea that is sure to be expanded on as the comics continue.

The Whitespike. He not only has ranged weaponry, but seem to have more self control and intelligence than the rabid Neomorph. 

I think we CANT get to DRAWN into WHAT was Supposed to be, but more so WHAT we Actually Got.

And so YES there was supposed to be a Pyramid and there was Various Murals on the Walls......

By the TIME they got HR Giger on-board then the Pyramid had become a HR Giger Inspired Design (based off his Unused Work for DUNE). I get what your trying to CONVEY in that DUE to Budget/Time they Could-Not go and have a Separate Egg Silo/Pyramid.  So they Reused the Pilot Chair SET.....

HOWEVER the Concept Art for the Egg Chamber had a Similar Aesthetic to the Interior of the Derelict, it would seem it was a Case of RE-USE the Pilot Chamber for the Egg Chamber.  But they DID both at Concept Stage (HR Giger) have a Similar Appearance.

I Understand that in Earlier Drafts then the SHIP they First Encounter is NOT of HR Giger Design, in Earlier Drafts it was ALIEN, in the Drafts when David Giler and Walter Hill became Involved (it was a Earth Ship) the Dead Crew Described as Skeletal and (HUMAN) The Egg Silo/Pyramid a RED CYLINDER. And Kane Describes the Interior as a "Cave or some-thing below" (This was one of the Hill/Giler Drafts that Introduced ASH).

Then they Combined Parts of O'Bannons with their Draft, where the Space Ship was again ALIEN in Origin.  They Encounter a Structure that Eventually  leads down to a Cavernous Space....  which has Organic Protrusions from the Floors.  But the Eggs/Sacks are Discovered Near the Center of the Chamber, Kane Ponders its a Storage Area.

As they Recover Kane i am sure they are then shown at the Entrance to the Derelict and so MAYBE at this Stage of Drafts the Idea of the Egg Chamber being Part of the DERELICT seems Established?

There is another Late Draft where Kane does mention he is Below Ground Level but it also indicates the HOLE to the Cavern is INSIDE the Derelict. This Latter Draft changes to Leathery Urns again instead of Ovoid Sacks.

The Bottom Line..... the Story had Changed/Evolved that by the Time we had Production we had HR Giger and we would have had a Egg Silo and Separate Derelict Ship that had a SHARED AESTHETIC.

Budget Restraints had made it so the USED the Same SET for the Egg Chamber and Pilot Chamber (Bottom Half of Set as Tops where Matt Paintings).  The Shared Aesthetic indicating that the Egg Silo that became the Cargo Hold and the Derelict Ship were MADE by the Same Species

The Space Jockey was Specifically Designed to Connect to the Pilot Chair and FLY the Ship.

I dont think we can go and say the Egg Chamber is NOT in any way Connected to the Derelict Ship and its Pilot....  PURELY because HR Giger had Designed them.  But Each Person is Entitled to their Own Opinion.

I Stand By the Intention that WHO EVER had Built the Egg Chamber had also Built the Derelict Ship.....   Even IF we ONLY go by the Movie Itself.

However....doing so....

We cant Confirm/Prove that WHOEVER had Built the Egg Chamber and Derelict

1) Had Created/Engineered the Eggs or NOT.

2) Was the Space Jockey Race (they could have been Enslaved by who Created the Egg Chamber and Derelict).

I think that Originally and i mean Prior to Shooting that the Inside of the Egg Silo may have Appeared like a Cavernous Cave to Kane but he also said OR SOMETHING... so he was maybe NOT like 100%, at some Stage in the Drafts it seems Indicated this Cavern/Egg Chamber was UNDERGROUND.

THIS TOPIC.... is maybe Easier to Discuss the Space Jockey but there have been others.

You're right. After all, it's a cheaper version of the original pyramid. That is, the structures built by the Aliens.

Giger style or not, the cavern looked artificial

https://alienseries.wordpress.com/2012/12/02/the-derelictpyramidsilo/

I don't want to correct you. That's just Giger's style. He used to paint and sculpt and stuff like that. As I wrote. If anyone else had designed it no doubt the ship and the cave would be different. Not so with Giger.

BTW it is Kane and no one else that says it is a cave BUT for Kane they had to get Dallas and Lambert down. If there was any doubt it would have shown up in the dialogue. There's no such thing. I don't care what other movies have to say about this subject but I think it's there too.

I don't care what RS invented in Prometheus and Covenant, he created his own universe based on the thesis that the skeleton of the pilot is the spacesuit and the Alien was created by David after many experiments.

So yes, I understand you. But I have to base it on reality. Which is the words

1)It's been dead for a long time. It's fossilized.
The bones are bent outwards, it must have exploded inside.
2) There's a cave, a cave. It's as hot as the tropics.

That completely precludes interpreting a corpse as a spacesuit with any logic. More: 

The ship was open. The planet was freezing well below zero. It was freezing inside spaceship too. The team's breaths are changing into steam. There's also a hole in the floor of the ship. No door. The floor is burned through with acid. I mean, if it was part of the ship, it would be freezing inside. But the conditions in the cave are different. It's warm. It's not maintained by the wreck's systems. It's the alien system. It was originally supposed to be in the pyramid. That was scrapped for the money, leaving the cave. But again, logically. If the Alien was the original species on the planet. It built the pyramids, and the pyramid was scrapped because of the money, so there's a cave on the planet instead of a pyramid. And that's where Alien's conditions are.

I know Giger was supposed to make the two environments distinctly different. He didn't. Someone thought the plot of the original Alien would be so ruined by the sequels, etc.

look at Gigers paintings. You will understand. 

Andy77

Correct me if I am WRONG but didn't the "CAVE" look ARTIFICIAL to you, looked more like a CARGO BAY then a CAVE and it had the same AESTHETICS as the DERELICT

How the mighty have fallen. Of course the Director said it's David... he's holding the suspense. It's David and Walter because Walter accepted David's plea and killing his body took on his mind with the nifty little plugin David has in his neck and Walter lacked. Quick as that. Bam cut open the David and take the embryo's himself. The differnce of course between the psychopathic murderer and the next gen is that Walter recognised the need to create an army of Xenomorphs to handle the Engineer threat. 

Of course we can do the analysis. But every analysis is based on films and material that were made AFTER the other Alien films were made. Aliens brings in conspiracy theory, Alien 3 brings in the possibility of mutation by host / later on RS actually used this for both Covenant and Prometheus. But all of this material comes from the films AFTER Aliens none of it comes from BEFORE Aliens. This loses the essence of where the searchers are looking for the essence. Would they have thought of this or that idea BEFORE these movies?

I doubt anyone would have doubted for a second that it was an alien skeleton before seeing Prometheus flat. After all, the inspiration for the skeleton is found in Planet of the Vampires. The crazy suit idea is probably the stupidest I've ever seen.

The resemblance, I can easily explain. H.R. Giger was tasked with creating everything. The complete lifecycle of Alien, the Spaceship, I recommend the book H.R. Giger ALIEN Giger painted Biomechanoid style, in all his works we find elements of sex, death and technology. It is quite laughable where we find elements of female genitalia in his paintings. Yes and in many places in the film... I'll give you a hint, facehugger, alien spaceship entrances.

He just had his own style. And Scott was captivated. So he didn't interfere. That's why the cave is so close in design to the ship. Giger was a genius, and without his Alien, the film would have lost xy percent of its quality. If there was a weird octopus running around, it probably wouldn't be the same as the monster without eyes.

Giger's world is fascinating, I recommend the Necronomicon. Alien and his other books. Perfect. So I wouldn't look for a deeper idea. It's just that the design was used. The pyramid was supposed to look like that, there were even hieroglyphic characters and drawings, you can easily find that too.

In the Mother the whole point of the secret message was simple, BRING THE alien lifeform EVEN IF EVERYONE WAS TO DIE. that's why it was kept secret, Ripley's words about the armory are more of a joke. The clause said: If you find anything that indicates intelligent life, you must investigate, or no bonus. And the secret addendum for the android was:IF YOU FIND SOMETHING IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT IT KILLS THE POSSESSION... that's why the android was there. That clause has been in there for a long time, no one on the crew is surprised when Ash says it, Parker is just pissed. We can speculate that the order AT WHATEVER HAPPENS was given later, and an android was added to the crew there in case of bioinfection. The organism may contain viruses, etc.
But of course anyone can make up any theory they want. The sequel to The Thing is a tragedy on the level of Aliens :D but I understand it's good for earnings money. That's why I enjoy Alien vs Predator, it's not playing at anything. Just like Godzilla vs Kong. Also absolute nonsense, but entertaining. If Superman and Alien Queen ever fight, I have no problem with it... 

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

But to go back to a FEW things..

I think that YES with ALIEN it was Ambiguous, there was a LOT of Mystery.

Somethings we also Dont Know for sure would be.

The Eggs are in a Cave..... this could be Kanes Assumption.

The Space Jockey was a Skeleton.... again this could be a Assumption by Dallas.

Could the ALIEN be Killed?... again we do-not have enough to Conclude from ALIEN if it could be KILLED.

Then it comes down to STUDY with a Magnify Glass at Details, then you come up with things like thats a ODD SKELETON..... and that we are LOOKING at some STORAGE FACILITY for the Eggs that seems TOO LARGE to be Part of the SHIP and would seem more likely to be UNDERGROUND and Dug Out of a Cave etc.

What Dawned on me, even before the DVD Release and Wide Spread Internet, was that the SHIP had some Shared Aesthetic to the Xenomorph, and the PILOT had seemed Purposely Engineered to ATTACH to the Chair....

After i saw ALIENS in the 80's i was Drawn to Conclude that the Space Jockey Race had been Getting the Eggs from somewhere and STORING them either in a Lower Cargo Hold (thats Buried) or a Underground Storage Facility.

But what BUGGED ME (No Pun Intended) was the Xenomorph Hive did seem to Aesthetically Connect to the Egg Chamber and Derelict Ship.. and so i was ALWAYS WONDERING...... as to WHY...

Either ONE comes from the Other or Same Source.

1) Xenomorphs are Engineered on to Obtain the Derelict Bio-Mechanical Aesthetic.

2) The Space Jockey Engineer both the Derelict/Cargo Hold and the Xenomorph.

3) That the Space Jockey, Derelict, Cargo Hold and Xenomorph are Created/Engineered by something ELSE we have YET to see.

The ONE THING that Definitely Stood out for me with ALIEN was that SPECIAL ORDER 937 to me had Indicated the Company had SOME knowledge of what they MAY be dealing with.

I think Ripley would be aware of any Company Policy to Investigate Worlds they come Across that had LIFE... she seemed Really Pissed Off about Discovering that the Company had KNOWN they are going to Investigate something.  So its NOT that Special Order means the Company knows 100% what they was getting into... but would seem the could be Aware that something is ON the Moon and they want to get a SPECIMEN without the Crew (Apart from Ash) having any Knowledge about.

@Andy77

Well i have to agree with a LOT of what your Saying... with ALIEN it was Mysterious a ENIGMA....there was a LOT that we just Dont Know!  And so IF you ONLY go and Watch the Theatrical Release and you do-not look at NOTHING ELSE... no other Source, Comments, Concepts, Drafts.

Then there is a LOT of Mystery.... and the PROBLEM you have when you do any Sequels is the Stuff it could SHOW would NOT match with Everyone's Speculation to WHAT the Answers would be.

As ALIEN was ALONE... then Every Fan can Speculate, Dream or Wish for WHAT they would Think/Like... but WHEN someone makes Sequels and Prequels then the Answers or things they go to SHOW will NEVER Please everyone...

WHY i had Mentioned the Movie THE THING.... this was the same as ALIEN with the Mystery etc... and so in Hindsight i think had the 2011 Prequel had Never Been Made then the ORIGINAL would have had more of that Enigma/Magic and Mystery.

Lets say we had a THING Prequel thats SET BEFORE the 2011 Movie...  You have a Humanoid Species who are Genetically Engineering stuff and come up with a VIRUS.... this Overruns their Planet and Teaches them to NOT go and Play God... we show Survivors of the World running away to Flying Saucers to Escape and we see that ONE of them Decides to Head to Earth.... but then Reveal ONE of the Crew is a THING and Kills the others... and Mutates into the FORM that was DUG from the ICE in the 2011 Prequel.

Then you make a Sequel to The Thing where McReady is in a Mental Institute he is Informed by someone that the Military have the Space Ship and have a Sample of the DNA of the Organism....  McReady breaks out and then goes on to STOP the Outpost who are trying to Experiment with the VIRUS/Organism.

These could MAYBE go and Work.... but they could also Bomb! or maybe they are SO SO... but in any Case you would get some PURIST who would Dislike the IDEA that you are Making Prequels/Sequels to the ORIGINAL, were as the BEST THING would had been to have JUST the Original.

"That First Time we see the Derelict, the Pilot Chamber and Pilot, the Egg Cargo Hold.... this to me is ONE of the GREATEST Set of Scenes in Sci-Fi History."

Indeed. And those scenes are utterly... alien!

When I saw Alien, I was 15 years old and it was 1982. That's when I wanted an explanation above all else. And when I saw Aliens, I was excited at first. Hooray for action, combat, explanation. That's what the success of Aliens is based on. JC knew exactly what he was doing.

But as the years went by, I, who loved Alien despite my initial enthusiasm, suddenly understood the tragedy that Aliens caused for the original Alien.

RS quite deliberately left out the explanation. Alien is a de facto gothic horror film. Humans have no chance of survival, although they don't know it at first. The audience doesn't know why or what it's all about. And that's the amazing thing.

There's a spaceship. Who built it? When was it built? We'll never know. There's a dead pilot. Something killed him from the inside. No other crew. The next storyline will explain why. If Nostromo hadn't taken off, the situation would have repeated itself. A dead body with bones outside and no one around.

Now that I think about it in the discussion, it's better that Alien didn't include the scene with Dallas and Brett's cocoons. It left a mystery. By the way, the alien ship wasn't carrying eggs. Kane clearly says "It's a cave, hot as the tropics". So the alien ship landed over the egg cave instead of the pyramid.

It's a good thing there were no hints. It remained a mystery. I think Ripley's words "they probably wanted the monster for the armaments factory" is a deliberate hoax. The command in the Mother is not to fly to a specific planet. It's a command to investigate ANY source of intelligent life and import a sample. Unfortunately, Aliens uses this phrase to build a story to confuse the viewer.

Alien is a polished gem, and anything extra already cancels it out. Even the cocoon scene. The goal is total mystery. No hint of explanation.

There's a similar case in the history of literature. E A Poe and his book on A G Pym. The hero reaches the South Seas at a time when the existence or size of Antarctica was unknown. And when the mystical atmosphere is at its peak a giant white glowing figure appears and the book ends. That's all we learn.

Jules Verne did not understand this Poe's idea of deliberately not revealing the point or wanted to capitalize on it and wrote the novel The Ice Sphinx where the expedition to Antarctica explains everything. The death of Pym, making a mystical figure into an ice stump looking like a sphinx, etc. Someone was happy and the explanation.

Back to RS. The creation of Prometheus and Covenant were his biggest failures. He decided to suppress the other movies of the original Alien and shattered the mythology with more nonsense than one would expect. He got tangled up in his own thoughts and got stuck in them.

Yes, Aliens was the gateway to the creation of the Alien universe. Hence the many video games, comics and various sequels, etc. For me, Alien will always remain as a one-off. Untouchable. Mount Everest. And everything around it whether Aliens , , Alien 3, AvP or Covenant are just avalanches that have fallen from its slopes. The mountain would remain a mountain even if a thousand avalanches fell from it.

All the attempts to figure out "how it was" are the acts of children who want to know more and so they make stuff up. Fabulating. Usually to their own detriment  

1) Where did the eggs come from in the cave? We don't know.
2) why and where did the alien ship come from? We don't know.
3) Was the Alien intelligent or was it driven by perfect instincts? We don't know.

The sad thing is, after Scott built such a perfect structure, he joined the others who tried to destroy it for money. To no avail. In this, Alien is truly indestructible and has infected countless writers and audiences even without eggs. And it remains what it was meant to be. A mystery.

I like AVPR better than AVP 04, yeah it has a direct to video quality but I grew up on both hollywood movies and direct-to-video movies. Used to watch alot of sci-fi original movies back in the day.

As for the rest, well said Big Dave

Some Interesting ART....

Its ok to give Alternative Canon/Stories.... just HOPE that the TV Series or any Future Movies are NOT too much like these.

Xenomorph Chickens?

Nah Give me Prometheus/AC Black Goo infected KFC Nuggets!

I think that while ALIEN was a Masterpiece it maybe could have become one of those CULT Movies...like The Thing and Blade Runner etc....

And so i would AGREE that ALIENS was the Movie that made the Franchise more Familiar, by that if you Showed EVERYONE on the Planet and Asked or Talked about the Franchise....

I think MORE would be Familiar with ALIENS over ALIEN. To the General Population then YES that does Stand Out more.  The Alien Franchise which Includes the Video Games. Comics, Novels and Cross-Overs (AVP) do seem to be more Synonymous and Connected to Camerons Aliens... rather than Ridley Scotts Original.

For me and maybe for Many i was Younger when i saw ALIENS... and the Action and Bravado was more my Cuppa Tea but i also LOVED the First Movie and was Disapointed with the 3rd.....  But as i Grew Older then Alien 3 had Grown on me, and Aliens started to NOT be as Great... but still Good.....

Overall then ALIEN was my Favorite and i think as RS had said for me i became Unsensitised to the Franchise as FAR as the Xenomorph because i had seen it OVER and OVER in Various Mediums.... what KEPT the First ALIEN Movie as Enigmatic for me was the MYSTERY....

That First Time we see the Derelict, the Pilot Chamber and Pilot, the Egg Cargo Hold.... this to me is ONE of the GREATEST Set of Scenes in Sci-Fi History.

The Xenomorph was something we had NEVER really seen it was Unique, it was Iconic...it was a ENIGMA.... but then when you have something that is SHOWN in Mass and Too Many Times then it LOOSES that Sparkle/Enigma it once had.

This is NOT to say that Aliens had Killed it Off.....  i think the Downfall Started with Alien Resurrection and then AVPR basically made a Mockery of Sorts of it.

I cant Blame JC for the Queen.... he had Free Reign to Explore the Idea as the Egg Morph Scene was NOT a Part of the Original (DC Cut aside).  But when you look at Eggs.... then you think well they have to be LAID by something.

And if that Something can LAY MANY EGGS... then your Conclusion would be that maybe they have to be like a Ant, Bee or Termite and so you can Understand as to HOW the Hive/Queen came to be.

The Existence of the Queen did OPEN the Debate about the Origins of the Xenomorph as FAR as to give some Credit to the Idea that the Xenomorph was NOT a Creation but a Ancient Organism.....

It seems that THIS would have been something that JC would have Touched On had he MADE the Sequel to ALIENS... This would make the Xenomorph become more Closer to the Original Starbeast.

Ridley Scott had however thought the Xenomorph as a Engineered Killing Machine that the Space Jockey had Created....But this does-not make the Queen as something that does-not FIT with a Engineered Weapon... the Queen actually Offers some Benefit as a Weapon.... but also Offers some Flaws.

But even if ALIENS had Never Existed and the Egg Morph was shown in ALIEN then IF the Notion was the Xenomorph was a Creation by the Space Jockey then it would STILL have Flaws as well as Pros to being a Bio-Weapon.

I think EVERYONE has a Different Take well can have a Varied Take on the Franchise and likes and Dislikes and Everyone is Entitled to that.  There may even be some who like AVRP ;)  (I actually think the Pred-Alien and Procreation was Interesting but a BIT RAPID).

I felt that ALIENS was the next logical step to the alien series, but MAYBE I liked ALIENS because I grew up in a military family. I liked ALIENS because the marines for all their gloating and brovado quickly went out the window when they were attacked by the xenomorphs. Without ALIENS, I feel that ALIEN would have been forgotten since ALIENS with the help of ALIEN influenced the sci-fi genre as a whole, I dare to say that ALIEN and ALIENS was more influential to sci-fi then either STAR WARS and STAR TREK

AVP 2004 was just a horrible abomination that added nothing to the alien series and just reused concepts already explored in other mediums of the franchise.

I will add that just as some Fans will NOT go and Accept that Alien 3 on-wards are Canon as they KILLED OFF... their Ripley.... so those who do-not Accept the Ideas that Cameron had Introduced are WELL within their Rights to NOT go and Consider that as Canon.

ALIEN was the Result of a Evolving Story and Concept.........

Xenomorph/Starbeast had Started as the Remains of a Ancient Alien Race who had some kind of Civilization who had BUILT a Pyramid which they would USE for their Birthing Ritual. 

The Space Jockey was merely a Unrelated Organism that Happened to come across the Pyramids and Decided to Explore and well Curiosity Killed the Cat.

The Xenomorph had gone through Various Changes as FAR as its Appearance and it was HR Giger who gave us the FINAL PRODUCT.

The Pyramid had become a Egg Silo and the Mural instead had become something Different, and these had all been Designs by HR Giger, which included the PILOTS SHIP which they all SHARED a Connective Tissue as far as Aesthetically.

The Pilot was Now on the Mural, they Pilot was Implied to being Connected to the Eggs and the Silo from where they was Held/Created.

Had there been more Budget and Time and the Studio was OK with a Extra 10 Min Footage then we would have seen KANE go to the Egg Silo to then Encounter the Eggs.

It would have Left some Questions... but those with Keen Eye would Notice the Aesthetic Connection to the Pilots Ship and the Egg Silo.  You would have been left to Consider...

1) The Pilot Race (Space Jockey) have come Across some Organism and they have Stored them in the Egg Silo, and one of their Race (Space Jockey) gets Infected while either Taking Eggs to his Ship or Vice Versa.

2) The Pilot (Space Jockey) had Engineered the Eggs and then Store them on the Egg Silo, or Engineered the Silo that Creates the Eggs.

3) The Egg Silo, the Ship where Created by some other Race and the Space Jockey are USED to Transport them to Places.

The Mural  (HR Giger) indicated the Space Jockey Race would Self-Sacrifice themselves to Procreate the Organism inside the Eggs.

But this was NEVER USED and the Egg Silo and so it became Part of the SHIP.

The Story had Evolved to make the Eggs a Engineered Bio-Weapon by the Space Jockey Race.... but at ONE POINT... it was to be a Engineered Weapon by the Weyland-Yutani Company.

The Idea of Starbeast had thus Changed... all that Remained was the Organisms Life-Cycle, Acid Blood and a ALIEN World it was Discovered on.

Things could have been Explored Differently (looked into some the Unused Concepts/Story) and LIKELY would have, IF we saw Ridley Scott go to make ALIEN 2.... but ALAS.

Regarding the Technology and Weapons of ALIENS.... i think that YES you would Expect them to USE like MECH SUITS... Remote Controlled A.I or even Synthetics instead of the GRUNTS/MARINES.

But having Humans means you can Build on Characters in Peril to make a Connection with the Audience.... you have to also Consider the Budget and Limitations of the 80's Effects.

To have Marines in District 9 Style Exosuits would require a LOT of Stop Motion like they did with the Queen and also the Power Loader.

You would maybe even Need this if you was to have them send A.I or Remote Control Combat Robots..... CHAPPIE anyone?  (well similar) and these would have been more Drain on Budget and Time, and in the 80's it is NOT that Easy to do (But The Terminators did it).

Yeah some of ALIENS was Goofy but so was the Mercs a bit in Alien Resurrection.  I have said a LOT that if you made more ALIEN Movies with Marines/Grunts vs Armies of Xenomorphs then it would just be another Starship Troopers... which was ok for Popcorn.

I Respect you Admiration for ALIEN... and for me, i Accept the Movie ALIENS.. but i am NOT sure it was the BEST WAY to have taken a ALIEN Sequels.

"Parker is talking about the dying facehugger not the Alien"

That is True, my point was being that if it came from Organic Beginnings and a Organic Host, i dont think it will Gestate to like a Terminator as far as how TOUGH it would be to Damage.  The ACID BLOOD was Essentially a Plot Device that meant the Crew would DARE to NOT go and Shoot it...... which then made the Terror they Faced more Intense because they had NO MEANS to Defend Against it apart from Scare if OFF with Fire.

"They are commercial creations whose creators wanted to cash in on the popularity of Alien"

Well when a Writer comes up with a Story and its SOLD to a Studio and a Director is brought in to BRING the Story to the Screen and has some Vision.... The Story/Franchise belonged to 20th Century Fox and they are within their Rights to make Sequels and Prequels and EVEN if they MESS them up, they can still do so...  The Vision of ALIEN could be more Diluted under DISNEY. (it will become even more POPCORN i Fear).

The Death of Ripley would have MADE sense if they Thought it out.... the Way that RS had Wanted it would have been SILLY if i am Honest, "this is Ellen Ripley, Permission to Dock"   DOOR OPENS and Ha Ha GOT YA... Stupid Humans!

For the Xenomorph to well Essentially Plant a Seed in Ripley then Stick her into Cryo-Sleep so she is Gestating a Xenomorph would have been Better. Also Ridley Scott can Change his Mind/Idea a lot.... he had said the Xenomorph was going away to DIE as it had Accomplish its Objective (Egg Morph).  If its aim is to Procreate then i would think it would have wanted to do the same with Ripley...  But i think the Ending was ok.....

"Scott created the biggest nonsense with the idea that the rest of the alien in spaceship is a spacesuit" The PILOT is something that had GONE through a LOT of Changes....

IF they had Stuck to the Original Idea (Starbeast) then YES we had a SKELETON of a ALIEN SPECIES but it was something that looked NOTHING like the Space Jockey, this came about via HR Giger and his Concepts Clearly had Indicated that is was a Space Suit... but also the Occupants are Bald Humanoids.

But on Screen it was left a Mystery and the Color of the Space Jockey and mainly its Helmet did look like a Skeleton... but the Arms and Snorkel are Clearly None-Skeletal...  only by Bone Color they look Skeletal.

"Scott's a parasite on his own work with Prometheus and Covenant. Money is money"

I think its more so he wanted to Protect his Legacy of ALIEN, as he had LOST the Control over what would become of a Sequel.   He would have known than after they COOK the Beast some more... they Eventually would have to look at the ORIGINS and WHO the Space Jockey are...

I think he would rather have MADE a Prequel than to NOT and then see someone come in and Explain the Origins of the Xenomorph and WHO the Space Jockey are as something that would MAKE him Turn in his Grave...

Looks like they want to reboot the Earth War trilogy by the looks of it

I'd like to make a few comments.

1) Parker is talking about the dying facehugger not the Alien. He had no idea it would exist at the time. Facehugger is dying. It's merely a cripple between the egg and the Alien. Just like the egg is probably dying.

2) As far as destructibility or reaction to fire in the nonsense that gets labeled as "sequels" it doesn't matter. They have nothing to do with Alien. They are commercial creations whose creators wanted to cash in on the popularity of Alien. That's all. What happens in them is irrelevant.

3). Yes the ending with dead Ripley was what Ridley Scott wanted. And I would have preferred that version. It wouldn't be the nonsense labelled as other episodes. By the way, the sad thing is that Scott created the biggest nonsense with the idea that the rest of the alien in spaceship is a spacesuit. I'd rather not comment on the other storylines of Prometheus and Covenant. I'd be rude. He should never have come back to Alien.

4) The model for indestructibility is A E van Vogt's 1939 short story "Discord in Scarlet". It's from the collection " The Voyage of Space Beegle " but that's not important anymore. The point is not whether he was completely indestructible. But if something doesn't get burned by the flames from the spacecraft's thrusters, it's impossible to shoot it with a rifle that might have trouble taking out a Grizzly.
Btw the alien corpse in the spaceship, it was inspired by the movie Planet of the Vampires.

It's too bad Scott didn't do everything as scripted for lack of money. I mean, the pyramid with the Aliens. With hieroglyphics in it, etc. Just as he should have left out the information that it's a tiny planet that no one would ever want to inhabit. He should also have left the scene where Brett and Dallas' bodies are cocoons. Cameron couldn't make up nonsense about the Queen and make Alien an insect.

But don't get me wrong. If Cameron made a movie that had a similar plot to "Aliens" I wouldn't mind at all. Action scifi ok. Same as Alien vs Predator. What bothers me is the parasitism on the Alien masterpiece. He just saw Alien and knew that younger audiences were bothered that they didn't see combat in Alien. So he thought ok I'll give it to them. And I'll make a “sequel” and make lot of money. And he did. Other directors did, too. Parasites. Sad thing is, Scott's a parasite on his own work with Prometheus and Covenant. Money is money.

I was (from “srauels” ) most amused by Alien vs Predator. It's not playing for a sequel. Director just stole a monster and combined the two monsters in a pretty funny way. It's nonsense but fun. Not anymore AvP2. It's a tragedy.

On the matter of the Alien’s resistance to fire, have we ever seen this for sure? The flame throwers in Alien were never aimed at an Alien. It simply ran off from the fire in Alien 3, although it did briefly survive being dipped in a pool of molten lead. In Aliens, it turned its head away when Ripley’s flame thrower sputtered out a feeble flame as it was running out. We never saw what happened when Vasquez and Drake let rip. No flames dousing the Alien in Resurrection, Prometheus or Covenant as I recall.

We’re overdue a scene where an Alien gets scorched by fire to see how it can really cope with being torched.

XENOMORPHS ON EARTH

MARVEL ALIEN #7

MARVEL ALIEN #8

ANIMAL FARM

I think there can be NO DOUBT that ALIEN was a Masterpiece and AHEAD of its Time.  However for a LOT of Franchises the FIRST Movie is Usually the BEST.

It SETS the Story, it SETS the Framework and LORE.... and sometimes Sequels do-not PLEASE those who liked the Original because they Change things or GO AGAINST what may had been Originally Planned or WHAT it seemed to be about.

But i think we have to LOOK at that Based on the Theatrical Release of the FIRST MOVIE, i dont think that STUFF that was Dropped from the DRAFTS for whatever Reasons should be Considered Canon.... thats UNLESS/UNTIL those working on Future Sequels would Choose to go and EXPLORE the things that NEVER made it to the First Movie.

By Virtue of that then some things ARISE from Sequels.

QUEEN: That was NOT how the Xenomorph Eggs came to be!  However because FOX had the Egg Morph Scene removed from ALIEN then, this left Cameron to then introduce a Queen.

EGG SILO: Yes it was intended to have a Separate Egg Silo but as they had to Merge the SETS to Save Money/Time then what we got was a CARGO HOLD of the Derelict instead (In-Spite of some Size Issues).

I have already mentioned about the Ripley Death Ending.... this was NEVER in the Drafts and was a Idea that RS wanted to ADD.... but the WAY he intended it would have been SILLY.

I think when it comes down to the Xenomorph being Indestructible... i think here is a KEY QUOTE...

Parker : "It's got a great defense mechanism... you don't dare kill it."

Then i have to go to PREDATOR

Ducth: "if it bleeds we can kill it"

Now i will say that when Ridley Scott had Envisioned how he wanted to Execute the ALIEN Drafts....  then YES he did-not intend for the Xenomorph to be as Vulnerable as we saw in ALIENS and ALIEN RESURRECTION.  (Plus the AVP Movies).

Now with ALIEN 3 the Xenomorph was Tough, we saw it could Withstand Extreme Heat/Burns as we saw in ALIEN and also ALIEN COVENANT.  This does-not mean the Organism should be INDESTRUCTIBLE though.

Else we just gonna get a Space Jason Voorhees with a T-800 Inner Skeleton.

IF say we saw RS go and give us a Indestructible Xenomorph where there are Thousands of them via the Eggs, and they can MIMIC a Human Voice, then its HOW do you Continue?

You then have to ASK as to WHERE are the Rest of these Immortal Bio-Mechanical Killing Machines?

I think its BETTER they had some Vulnerabilities and well the LIFE-CYCLE is one such VULNERABILITY.... especially if they do-not LIVE FOREVER...

I dont think having a Xenomorph that would be like a Marvel Super Hero would have been Good.... but i Certainly think they had been made to be Too Easy to KILL with Aliens and AVP.

The Alien Covenant Xenomorph looked like it GOT IT RIGHT.

Ridley Scott had CLAIMED the Dead Xenomorphs would REGENERATE and so that would have been Interesting.... but NOT if its like a T-1000

No Xeno T-800 or T-1000 for me... 

But to come up with a Clever.... kind of Regeneration that Merges with Egg Morph would be Ideal.

I don't know why anyone of you debates over these two movies when it's clear as a sun... Ridley Scott copy a lot of things from MTTM to his Prometheus!

Other production of Marvel Comics (2021):

ALIENS AFTERMATH

FOR ALIENS’ 35TH ANNIVERSARY, A RETURN TO HADLEY’S HOPE! It’s been 35 years since the tragedy of the Hadley’s Hope colony, but what happened to that ill-fated venture has been shrouded in mystery. A renegade crew of investigative journalists are heading towards the moon that Weyland-Yutani has wiped from all records, and they’ll bring back the truth even if it kills them…and what remains in that bombed out site will try to do just that. Benjamin Percy and Dave Wachter imagine a terrifying possible future for LV-426 in this celebration of the 35th Anniversary of one of the most influential science fiction films of all time!

https://www.marvel.com/comics/issue/93626/aliens_aftermath_2021_1

El riesco siempre vive.

Marvel Alien #5 (THE ALPHA SHOWS UP):

Variant Cover of Marvel Alien #6:

Amazing!

A QUEEN THAT TURNS BEAUTY INTO HORROR.

Yeah. I understand that in 1979, they couldn't know what computers would look like in 2021, much less in the 22nd century. But to assume that soldiers destined to fight alien monsters (ok they didn't know what they were) would have the weapons they had in Aliens was shocking to me. I understand it's expensive to have exoskeletons in a movie. But maybe remotely controlled reconnaissance flying robots (aka today's drones) might have occurred to Cameron.
That bunch running around with rifles and grenade launchers is equipped to the level of the film's production. Like I said. Just replace the invaders with Vietnamese , Islamic State soldiers etc and it would be the same thing. By the way has anyone thought that if there were grizzly bears or tigers in that base they would be more dangerous than the "aliens"? Aliens is a tragic failure. But I understand that it's great for teenagers. But that was a really fun AvP. More imaginative.

"space bugs Vietnam it cant be"

Yeah the Vietnam war type soldiers was off-putting. I never once thought: "Wow! I'm in the 22nd century!" Everything out of their mouths is street jargon from the 1980's.  Gives it a popcorn movie feel ( for better or worse )

Xenotaris wrote: "alien fanfiction."

I'll probably do a script....And then some original music and drawings. I'll call it A L I E N  I I.             Have to find the time...

My Alien CRT tech homage, would be steampunk alternative history vibe....H.P. Lovecraft influenced. Think: CRT globes.