New Replies (Page 172)
Some interesting finds regarding the Aliens Colonial Marines Technical Manual
But regarding the Video Game and DLC Expansion i am not sure about considering them as Canon.
You certainly cant RULE out Bishop as having a Sinister Agenda, we also cant RULE OUT that he has a 2nd Chip that Activates a like Sleeper Cell Program that Bishop may be Unaware he is Carrying out.
I think such things could be a possibility, but that does-not mean that Bishop had any Hidden Agenda at all. I do think the Conspiracy about the Synthetics/A.I being in Control and using Mankind as PAWNS is a Plot that is Viable.
Who knows if RS would have began to PLANT such Seeds to a A.I Plot in the Future Alien Prequels should he had been able to Continue.
Regarding the Sulaco Egg we have debated this a number of times, but with the release of Alien Covenant were we see Miniature Versions of the Eggs, then who knows if a Queen can not produce Small Eggs it can Stick to a Surface and these would GROWN.
You would have to then ask what is the Purpose of the Egg Sack/Ovipositor but maybe they allow for the Eggs to Grow Quicker, or is a Organic Tool to allow the Queen to Lay Eggs in Locations without having to Move and Manually Place them by Hand.
Thanks for Clearing that up SM ;)
I have not read the Novel or Comics, i have seen some pages from the Comics but that is all.
@LETO
Indeed the WHY is always the Biggest Question, it was the most Important one for RS in terms of the Xenomorph and the Experiments on LV-223, as in its not a case of WHO/WHEN/WHERE but as to WHY which would give the bigger implications...
In regards to being Fallen.. again i think we cant read into it too Literally and Ignorant Guy hits the Nail on the Head with their Comment.
If we look at PROMETHEUS then he is Clearly Fallen too, in the Context of the Hierarchy of that Mythos. He went against and disobeyed his Fellow Titans, and helped Zeus to Overthrow the Titans and become the GODS... then he did the same thing to Zeus and his Hierarchy by helping Humanity. So in the EYES of the Ruling GOD then Prometheus had done Actions that would Constitute him to become Fallen in the eyes of Cronus and Zeus.
If we look at Lucifer then what made him become Fallen was that he did-not agree with how he should be viewed by God, he saw much more potential for Gods Creations (Angels) than to Serve God, this was the First Part of his FALL and the Second was that he had Interfered with Man, by Persuading Eve to go against the WISHES of God, by leading her to Eat the Forbidden Fruit which gave her Knowledge that GOD had Forbidden.
I think we can assume that any Engineers who are Considered to be Fallen may have carried out similar actions to what Lucifer and Prometheus had done.
Regarding the Gardeners of Space then this appears to be something that RS has mentioned quite a bit and even after Alien Covenant he mentioned that they are Gardeners of Space, and little is ever mentioned regarding the Horrors of LV-223 aside from that they had Created something on their to use in Part against Humanity.
We still dont know WHY they would seed Worlds and invest Time in visiting such Worlds, i thinking looking into some of the Comments by RS then Earth is NOT their First Rodeo and likely was NOT their Last either.
They had likely seeded many Worlds, and we can only Speculate as to WHY and for what Purpose.
If we are a Experiment where you are trying to Create Various Humanoid Hybrids and you have Created Very Similar on many Worlds, or even if you have Humans on Many Worlds then should ONE such World Inhabitants start to behave in ways that are against your intentions, then to them DESTROYING a World and the inhabitants would just be to them as MANKIND having to KILL off say all the CATTLE in a Country to STOP the spread of a Infection. There are many other countries you can repopulate Cattle from.
So for them what they are doing does-not make them EVIL but to us it would seem that way.... do we consider ourselves Evil because we have Tested Stuff on animals like Guinea Pigs? While it may seem Cruel to the Animals for our Agenda then its a Necessity.
So its like i said before we can look at a Fallen Angel in a number of ways, and being Demonic and Evil is just ONE.. the other side of the Coin would be that a Fallen Angel is doing things to HELP Mankind that is against their Hierarchies Orders and Wishes.
Was the Knowledge and Teachings given to Mankind something Forbidden by the Hierarchy? Who knows.
The whole Gardeners/Fallen Angels plot is something that some Fans are not a Fan of.... some see a more Sinister meaning to Gardening..
In that we are merely a CROP that they would then HARVEST and the reason being for Xenomorphs...
But i think RS wanted to expand on the Engineers in a way that it does-not CENTER around the Xenomorph and the like.
Another Path that could be FALLEN would be using the Tools of Creation to Create something that was NEVER the intention for these Tools and Gardeners of Space... and the Horrors on LV-223 could be something thats Created that could be seen as leading those Engineers to become Fallen.
Robocat. I didn’t think of that. But, weirdly, how did he get so much bigger by the time he appeared in Aliens? There will be plenty of food available on the Nostromo. There’s the trash, for one thing. There’s going to be a lot of that. Galley stores. Perhaps even a viable ecosystem in the bowels of the ship.
Remember, this is a dirty poorly maintained vessel that goes wrong quite a lot. It has water traps in its depths, an ideal place for fungi, moss and small creatures to live. Who knows what kind of life it could pick up on its travels through The Solomons.
dk Well not only that but rodents would be highly dangerous to your cables hence dangerous for your ship's integrity. Relying solely on one single cat on a huge ship would highly ineffective. Especially if you have technology to detect unwanted lifeforms on-board. But something being a robot solves everything every-time.
A large ship like that would only have vermin if there was a food source.
If a cat was meant to hunt vermin, why would it be in hypersleep? Do threats to food sources just go away because humans are slumbering? Why would there even be an oxygen source exterior to the sleep pods?
Who is to say Jonesy was not a synth cat?
I can pretty much guarantee you’re no further than 100m from a rat right now. Large unkempt ships have always had vermin. There’s no reason to suppose it would be any different for a bunch of space truckers in this future.
Supplies are irrelevant for something as huge as the Nostromo. The main reason for having hypersleep is to claim back years of your life that would be wasted in travelling.
"Can someone shed light on where the name "Mala'kak" first appeared? If this is really a thing, then it would mean, that whoever dropped the name "Mala'kak" behind the scenes knew long ago, that the guy in the chair wasn't an extraterrestrial from deep space but that his kind had a religious background with humans."
Mala'kak is from the Original Sin novel (set post-Resurrection) and there's no clear religious connection. They interact with an organisation called Loki and want to use Xenomorphs in reproductive experiments with humans (as the Mala'kak are sterile). We only hear about them though, and never meet one.
In the Apocalypse comic, Keitel refers to them as Giants.
The purpose of hypersleep is so you don't have to provide food, water, air and heat for the crew on long voyages. Without those things, no vermin and no need for a cat to stay awake and keep them under control.
In what instance are the gardener and the weed having the same DNA?
You would be surprised.
Leto Your garden analogy is kinda off. From the movie and what Scott himself said it is more likely that the aliens/black goop are the tools of the gardeners. In what instance are the gardener and the weed having the same DNA? The Gardeners and the fruit are the same: the engineers. Humanity is just the rotten fruit.
The fallen angel is a metaphor, meaning that there is/was a creator above the engineers who they disobeyed. As did humans and androids (as of Covenant). It is all a metaphor.
>>>Can someone shed light on where the name "Mala'kak" first appeared?
As I remember, Mala'kak is first mentioned in the comic book Aliens: Apocalypse - The Destroying Angels. This is the most greatest story about Alien EU.
>>>If this is really a thing, then it would mean, that whoever dropped the name "Mala'kak" behind the scenes knew long ago, that the guy in the chair wasn't an extraterrestrial from deep space
No. The Space Jockey/Mala'kak is the alien from the deep space. Even more - it is a subspecies of the Alien!
>>>but that his kind had a religious background with humans.
Not directly. Not Mala'kak, but xenomorphs were a kind of Angels of destruction. They already cleared the Earth in the distant past - 3.2 billion years ago, exterminating all living things.
>>>The beings on Planet 4 look like a cross-breeding between Engineers and humans
Yes, it can be assumed that they are a more successful experiment than humans.
>>>If the Planet 4 beings are - as i suggested in other topics - not the Engineers but their creation, then this would match.
Yes, that makes sense.
>>>Fallen Angel = Demon: Which is Synonyms with Wicked, Deceitful and Cruel.
>>>What we have to Consider would be WHO are the Fallen Angels in Context to the Franchise?
Not who, but why? Ridley simply jabbed his finger and said - yes, these guys are Fallen Angels. But why?
You should remember the duality of being. These Space Gardeners, these kind, smiling farmers... for whom? Obviously, for their garden. What is a garden? Without a doubt, this is primarily a man-made, controlled environment, where the growth and reproduction of plants (and animals) are controlled by the gardener. From this point of view - Aliens are the flowers in the garden. But people can be - the weeds. Or just the soil.
Anyway, the Gardener is a good god for his plants, and an evil demon for weeds. See - there is no Angels and Demons, there is Angels or Demons depending on the circumstances. Maybe - the Earth was not originally designed for people...
Slightly flawed logic there, BigDave...
Jones certainly could have been in the sleep chamber at the beginning (deleted dialogue doesn't count as proof in my book). After all, some of the sleep pods were hidden from camera. But Ripley had no idea how long she was going to be asleep in the Narcissus, and there was nowhere for the cat to run around. Jones would soon be dead, so it makes a lot of sense to take him to sleep with her.
The Nostromo is a different kettle of fish. It's huge, and traditional ships of old often had a cat to keep rats under control. With its workmanlike dirty environment, I wouldn't be surprised if a ship like the Nostromo had a few rats running around.
The one thing that puts me off the rats theory is that Parker made Brett go after the cat because otherwise they might pick it up again on the tracker. The same would presumably be true for scurrying rodents.
I think the PLOT sound more like a Alien Colonial Marines, and would suit something similar (Mission to LV-223 after the Destruction of Hadleys Hope).
I think any Hadleys Hope Game would have worked better as a Survival Horror like Alien Isolation, but with more use of Weapons but NOT a Full Blown Tour to Armed Force like the Majority of the Franchise Games.
However it was nice to see work being done on some Games under FOX and a Concern that Disney has canned them... makes you wonder what LITTLE Plans that Disney has for the Franchise.
We dont see the Cat come from a Cyro-Pod but we do see Jonsey in one at the END.
So we have to assume the Cat was in one of the Hybpersleep Pods, likely with Ripley as SM had indicated.
" I guess the beings on Planet 4 are supposed to be the Nephilim"
I think it depends, i guess some look at these beings as NOT being Engineers, as they did look more like a Hybrid as in Part Human/Engineer and back prior to Alien Covenants release, then i had looked at these guys and HOW they appeared to be more Human and indeed a Hybrid did come to mind. It kind of got me thinking was the SEEDING of Worlds and Humanity to eventually Create a Female that the Engineers could Procreate with so they can then Carry on their Species? This was looking back at the PLOT prior to Prometheus where the Engineers had Genetically Engineered themselves to the point they LOST the ability to Procreate.
However more closer to the Release it was noticed the Engineers on Paradise did have Females, but maybe they NEVER had them for a LONG TIME and maybe Mankind played a Role in their Eventual Return.
The Engineers on Planet 4 however are not QUITE as Giant as the Nephilim. A Interesting comment by RS was he referred to the Planet 4 Engineers as being the Original Engineers and so maybe the LV-223 Engineers are more likely to be the Nephilim?
It remains so OPEN as far as how the Connections are.
Ridley Scott had indicated the Engineers (Prometheus) were Ancient and Lived for Thousands of Years. At the time of prior to Prometheus they appeared to be Male, but they did consider having Females too. The idea leading to Prometheus was this Species had Genetically Evolved themselves which may have left them Sterile.
With Alien Covenant we see some Changes... the beings on the so called Home-World appear to be more Human, less Psychical than the Prometheus Adonis and we see there are Females.
Ridley Scott made some interesting comments, such as mentioning the Planet 4 Engineers live for about 150 Years, and saying they are the Original Engineers, he had also said that the Engineers are NOT a Race but a Civilization and so they could be Interbred with Various Humanoids from across the Galaxy.
Then we come to the HALL OF HEADS... where these are the Wise Men (Old), Apostles (Keep and Teach the Engineers ways), and they are SUPERIOR beings but Superior to WHOM? us Humans?, Planet 4 Engineers? LV-223 Engineers?
And so a lot of Mystery still remains.
Regarding Watchers... i think this is something that sums up the Engineers more ;) And maybe especially the Task of the LV-223 Engineers.
I think we are going to have to look at the Prequels as Canon, where we have our Engineers, as the Mala'kak were coined from some Earlier Comics that depicted the Space Jockey as Elephantine Alien Species.
The Fallen Angel connection is something that was on the mind of Ridley Scott as he had referred to the Engineers as being Fallen Angels.
Now its a case of was Ridley Scott referring all the Engineers as Fallen Angels? or just a Faction of the Engineers, so was he calling the Engineers on LV-223 as Fallen?
We really cant 100% read into it TOO LITERALLY.... the Term Fallen Angel in context to the Engineers could mean more than ONE thing.
Fallen Angel = Demon: Which is Synonyms with Wicked, Deceitful and Cruel. Evil Angels if you would, and so if RS is looking at them in this Context then the Term Fallen Angel could just be used to show that these would be GODS are NOT the Gods but are just EVIL.
However another way to look at a Fallen Angel is a being/servant of God that has either Rebelled against their Master, or as Committed Acts or Intended to Commit Acts that are AGAINST the Desire/Will and Rules of their Master.
I would say in Context to the Engineers then BOTH would have applied.
Something to Consider is that the Sequel to Prometheus was intended to be loosely connected to John Miltons Paradise Lost were the Engineers would be connected to the Fallen Angels.
In this Context we have a Race that are Created Perfect (or close) where some of them become opposed to the Life/Ways that are intended for them, where they see themselves as being more Important than their Creators Intentions and they do-not see WHY they should Serve their Creator and so they become Sentient and Rebellious.
In Alien Covenant we see that David has somewhat taken on the Undertones of the Fallen Angels from Paradise Lost and so its likely that the Engineers or SOME of them had taken a similar Stance against their Creators/Hierarchy as we are seeing David doing.
What we have to Consider would be WHO are the Fallen Angels in Context to the Franchise?
For this we have to look at WHAT is the Connection between the LV-223/Prometheus Engineers, the Planet 4 Engineers and the Hall of Heads Elder Engineers.
Are all THREE the same Race? Are they separated by Sub-Creation or Engineering?
Are all THREE considered Fallen or just ONE/TWO of these?
Then its a case of WHAT has Constituted the Fall in them.
Where do you think hive resin comes from? :)
ignorantGuy I don't think any Aliens smeared themselves with their own excrement.
Jones was in hypersleep with everyone else. Likely Ripley's tube which isn't really visible in the final film. There's deleted dialogue from Dallas "One of you jokers get the cat" and Ripley complies.
"In fact, the Sulaco Bishop synthetic, 341-B, ITSELF smuggled the Queen alien facehugger onboard the Sulaco into the hypersleep chambers which impregnated Ripley in A3."
How and when?
"-It’s WHY it helped get the two facehuggers into the medbay where Ripley and Newt were sleeping. Burke could not have carried them on his own (too heavy when filled with liquid, and lethal (for a human) when taken out of the liquid, but not for a synthetic."
How did Bishop manage this while also crawling through a pipe at the time?
"- It's WHY it had no problem nuking the atmospheric processor."
When did Bishop express an opinion about nuking the AP?
"- It's WHY the Patna (real Michael Bishop) travels straight to F161 in the canon."
Everything that happened on the Sulaco got sent back to Network.
dk Alin? like in GG Alin?
Good question. We never saw her emerge from a pod with every one else (pretty sure) - including Ash, yet she was put into a pod with Ripley at the end of Alien. I have some silly ideas about how it could have happened but no really good explanation. Perhaps she was a little kitten or even not born during the crew's hyper sleep, But then we need to consider their food/hydration sources during the trip.
Excellent topic! Up voted.
Hindsight is 20/20. In 1986, Bishop came across as a stand up android. Don't forget that the whole egg thing has been exhaustively debated but really was a weird plot device and excuse to make Alin 3.
It sounds rather implausible. For sure an egg was placed in the Sulaco somehow, but when Bishop set down on the platform in the atmosphere processor, Ripley headed straight down the elevator towards the egg chamber. I can’t see Bishop flying the ship down, heading Ripley off at the pass, and returning with an egg before anyone noticed. Then having an opportunity to glue it to the ceiling in the Sulaco in the few seconds before he was ripped in two by the queen.
Yes, it had many game mechanics problems and was too easy. Thankfully a programmer and fan fixed it and improved it beyond what Gearbox had intended. Look up TemplarGFX mod.
I summon thee BigDave
- It's WHY it was "late" to pick up Ripley and Newt from the processor, NOT because it had to "circle around because the platform was getting unstable".
Indeed I had this theory all along. The company always wanted the organism - hence they put Ash on the Nostromo. Surely they would have given Bishop the same instructions - to make sure Burke wouldn't fail. And as soon as Burkes' plan was discovered Bishop could be even more confident, as the others would think they had found the mole.
It's possible that the queen laid an egg or two after entering the Sulaco and before revealing itself. But I think a) the time would have been too short and b) it missed its "eggsack" (which Ripley blasted with her Grenade Launcher).
Its very very unfortunate that this story arc wasn't developed further in Alien 3 because it would have all the more created an atmosphere of a) the feeling that no one could be trusted and b) that the company is even more sinister as they would do the same treacherous thing again (also I think the Idea of the wooden Planet, populated by monks, would have been so scary because it would have summoned this queasy feeling about sects and religious dogma - it would have been fabulous!).
As to where Ridley Scott is going with the Covenant sequel I don't know. Not developing a) the Engineers story arc and b) choosing the Alien to be a creation of a Robot whose circuits popped due to a lack of maintenance is a catastrophe. In my humble opinion the only way to fix this in a sequel is to a) reveal that the Planet 4 beings were not Engineers but merely another creation of theirs (otherwise the nimbus of the Engineers, letting themselfs be wiped out so helplessly and poorly, would be irreparably damaged) and b) that actually WY isn't under human control anymore but David (prior to the Prometheus mission) has hacked skynet-style into their system and HE is the one in control, communicating via Engineer emitters on a hidden, encrypted frequence to earth, arranging the Covenant mission to be launched, implementing a course right by Planet 4 while at the same time deleting it from the star maps - which is why they were surprised when finding it. Of course he would need to be the one who - again via Engineer technology - caused the neutrino-eruption just in time when the Covenant was a stones' throw away from Planet 4 (if Ridley Scott chooses the neutrino burst to be naturally caused and just a coincidence that it happened near Planet 4 would just be to implausible and my suspension of disbelieve couldn't handle it). If the humans aren't in control anymore this would bring back the element of Lovecraftian horror, which is to say that the humans actually were in control only for a blink of an eye - from when the LV 223 Engineers died 2.000 years ago until Weyland created David. Before 2.000 years ago and again since David was created the humans are merely puppets of powers they cannot understand, helpless while living under the ridiculous illusion of being in control. But ignorance is bliss and they do not know that their days are all but soon to be over.
Fascinating discovery... I too am shocked we've never looked deeper into this. It certainly sheds some light on those odd inconsistencies. Featured this topic so more can see it, nice post!
Isolation was really good. Maybe a combo of that with some of the action from CM could work.
The text is from the Aliens Colonial Marines Technical Manual released in 1995. Not from the Aliens Colonial Marines Game released in 2013.
As for the game, I agree that the gameplay mechanics were very bad on release, but in my opinion the Templar GFX v6 mod completely turned it into a new game.
The story of the game and it’s DLC: Stasis Interrupted, in my opinion, was very good and tied into the ACMTM very well. Again, that is my opinion.
But I’m one of the fans whose Aliens franchise ended at Aliens. Alien 3 was a let down (Hicks and Newt dead), A4 was satire, Prometheus was not really Alien, and Covenant killed the mystery for me.
For people like me, Aliens (1986) and the Technical Manual (1995) were the end of the franchise. I think the ACM game was written more for people like me than for the average fan.
With it being a sequel to Aliens and bringing Hicks back, etc. But that’s my opinion.
Alien fans may have missed those points since the game was so bad that they may not have even payed attention to the deeper and finer points?
Intriguing, good stuff.
Alien CM may have had a great story, but I saw so many reviews that said the game itself was horrible that I skipped it.
Aliens Colonial Marines and Stasis Interrupted had amazing stories that were a sequel to Aliens and even brought back Hicks.
Blackout is A:I sequel. Then comics: Resistance & Rescue.
I remember playing this. For a game based on a movie it actually wasn't bad.
There are enough shooters out there. An Isolation sequel would be better.
Ingeniero the evolution of a competing species, pushing aside the Xenomorph.
I love looking at predator-prey relationships :)
The proposed competing species would have to have evolved with the Xenomorph species within their native ecosystem for such an initiate co-evolutionary path to develop.
This would also show that the Xenomorph is not an apex predator in its native environment - but a meso-predator existing in a very competitive (low capacity / high demand) ecosystem.
Although it might seem to devalue the species knocking them off as Apex Predators it adds some interesting dynamics and depth to the species to explore. This also doesn't mean the Xeno cant be an Apex when inserted into a new ecosystem like Planet 4 :)
Ditto what Leto said
No. In the comic book Life and Death, the black goo led to the degeneration of Aliens. The Queen could no longer lay healthy eggs, and the chestbursters were born dead and deformed.
Interesting that Alien: Labyrinth (1993-1994) Dark Horse does feature a form of proto-black goo - degenerative to the Xeno - has again been explored recently in Life and Death.
