Comments (Page 171)

We dont see the Cat come from a Cyro-Pod but we do see Jonsey in one at the END.

So we have to assume the Cat was in one of the Hybpersleep Pods, likely with Ripley as SM had indicated.

" I guess the beings on Planet 4 are supposed to be the Nephilim"

I think it depends, i guess some look at these beings as NOT being Engineers, as they did look more like a Hybrid as in Part Human/Engineer and back prior to Alien Covenants release, then i had looked at these guys and HOW they appeared to be more Human and indeed a Hybrid did come to mind.  It kind of got me thinking was the SEEDING of Worlds and Humanity to eventually Create a Female that the Engineers could Procreate with so they can then Carry on their Species?  This was looking back at the PLOT prior to Prometheus where the Engineers had Genetically Engineered themselves to the point they LOST the ability to Procreate.

However more closer to the Release it was noticed the Engineers on Paradise did have Females, but maybe they NEVER had them for a LONG TIME and maybe Mankind played a Role in their Eventual Return.

The Engineers on  Planet 4 however are not QUITE as Giant as the Nephilim.   A Interesting comment by RS was he referred to the Planet 4 Engineers as being the Original Engineers and so maybe the LV-223 Engineers are more likely to be the Nephilim?

It remains so OPEN as far as how the Connections are.

Ridley Scott had indicated the Engineers (Prometheus) were Ancient and Lived for Thousands of Years.  At the time of prior to Prometheus they appeared to be Male, but they did consider having Females too.  The idea leading to Prometheus was this Species had Genetically Evolved themselves which may have left them Sterile.

With Alien Covenant we see some Changes...  the beings on the so called Home-World appear to be more Human, less Psychical than the Prometheus Adonis and we see there are Females.

Ridley Scott made some interesting comments, such as mentioning the Planet 4 Engineers live for about 150 Years, and saying they are the Original Engineers, he had also said that the Engineers are NOT a Race but a Civilization and so they could be Interbred with Various Humanoids from across the Galaxy.

Then we come to the HALL OF HEADS... where these are the Wise Men (Old), Apostles (Keep and Teach the Engineers ways), and they are SUPERIOR beings but Superior to WHOM? us Humans?,  Planet 4 Engineers? LV-223 Engineers?

And so a lot of Mystery still remains.

Regarding Watchers... i think this is something that sums up the Engineers more ;)   And maybe especially the Task of the LV-223 Engineers.

I think we are going to have to look at the Prequels as Canon, where we have our Engineers, as the Mala'kak were coined from some Earlier Comics that depicted the Space Jockey as Elephantine Alien Species.

The Fallen Angel connection is something that was on the mind of Ridley Scott as he had referred to the Engineers as being Fallen Angels.

Now its a case of was Ridley Scott referring all the Engineers as Fallen Angels? or just a Faction of the Engineers, so was he calling the Engineers on LV-223 as Fallen?

We really cant 100% read into it TOO LITERALLY.... the Term Fallen Angel in context to the Engineers could mean more than ONE thing.

Fallen Angel = Demon:  Which is Synonyms with Wicked, Deceitful and Cruel.  Evil Angels if you would, and so if RS is looking at them in this Context then the Term Fallen Angel could just be used to show that these would be GODS are NOT the Gods but are just EVIL.

However another way to look at a Fallen Angel is a being/servant of God that has either Rebelled against their Master, or as Committed Acts or Intended to Commit Acts that are AGAINST the Desire/Will and Rules of their Master.

I would say in Context to the Engineers then BOTH would have applied.

Something to Consider is that the Sequel to Prometheus was intended to be loosely connected to John Miltons Paradise Lost were the Engineers would be connected to the Fallen Angels.

In this Context we have a Race that are Created Perfect (or close) where some of them become opposed to the Life/Ways that are intended for them, where they see themselves as being more Important than their Creators Intentions and they do-not see WHY they should Serve their Creator and so they become Sentient and Rebellious.

In Alien Covenant we see that David has somewhat taken on the Undertones of the Fallen Angels from Paradise Lost and so its likely that the Engineers or SOME of them had taken a similar Stance against their Creators/Hierarchy as we are seeing David doing.

What we have to Consider would be WHO are the Fallen Angels in Context to the Franchise?

For this we have to look at WHAT is the Connection between the LV-223/Prometheus Engineers, the Planet 4 Engineers  and the Hall of Heads Elder Engineers.

Are all THREE the same Race?  Are they separated by Sub-Creation or Engineering?

Are all THREE considered Fallen or just ONE/TWO of these?

Then its a case of WHAT has Constituted the Fall in them.

Where do you think hive resin comes from? :)

ignorantGuy I don't think any Aliens smeared themselves with their own excrement. 

Jones was in hypersleep with everyone else.  Likely Ripley's tube which isn't really visible in the final film.  There's deleted dialogue from Dallas "One of you jokers get the cat" and Ripley complies.

"In fact, the Sulaco Bishop synthetic, 341-B, ITSELF smuggled the Queen alien facehugger onboard the Sulaco into the hypersleep chambers which impregnated Ripley in A3."

How and when?

"-It’s WHY it helped get the two facehuggers into the medbay where Ripley and Newt were sleeping. Burke could not have carried them on his own (too heavy when filled with liquid, and lethal (for a human) when taken out of the liquid, but not for a synthetic."

How did Bishop manage this while also crawling through a pipe at the time?

"- It's WHY it had no problem nuking the atmospheric processor."

When did Bishop express an opinion about nuking the AP?

"- It's WHY the Patna (real Michael Bishop) travels straight to F161 in the canon."

Everything that happened on the Sulaco got sent back to Network.

dk Alin? like in GG Alin?

Good question. We never saw her emerge from a pod with every one else (pretty sure) - including Ash, yet she was put into a pod with Ripley at the end of Alien. I have some silly ideas about how it could have happened but no really good explanation. Perhaps she was a little kitten or even not born during the crew's hyper sleep, But then we need to consider their food/hydration sources during the trip.

Excellent topic! Up voted.

Hindsight is 20/20. In 1986, Bishop came across as a stand up android. Don't forget that the whole egg thing has been exhaustively debated but really was a weird plot device and excuse to make Alin 3.  

It sounds rather implausible. For sure an egg was placed in the Sulaco somehow, but when Bishop set down on the platform in the atmosphere processor, Ripley headed straight down the elevator towards the egg chamber. I can’t see Bishop flying the ship down, heading Ripley off at the pass, and returning with an egg before anyone noticed. Then having an opportunity to glue it to the ceiling in the Sulaco in the few seconds before he was ripped in two by the queen.

Yes, it had many game mechanics problems and was too easy. Thankfully a programmer and fan fixed it and improved it beyond what Gearbox had intended. Look up TemplarGFX mod.

I summon thee BigDave 

- It's WHY it was "late" to pick up Ripley and Newt from the processor, NOT because it had to "circle around because the platform was getting unstable".

Indeed I had this theory all along. The company always wanted the organism - hence they put Ash on the Nostromo. Surely they would have given Bishop the same instructions - to make sure Burke wouldn't fail. And as soon as Burkes' plan was discovered Bishop could be even more confident, as the others would think they had found the mole.

It's possible that the queen laid an egg or two after entering the Sulaco and before revealing itself. But I think a) the time would have been too short and b) it missed its "eggsack" (which Ripley blasted with her Grenade Launcher).

Its very very unfortunate that this story arc wasn't developed further in Alien 3 because it would have all the more created an atmosphere of a) the feeling that no one could be trusted and b) that the company is even more sinister as they would do the same treacherous thing again (also I think the Idea of the wooden Planet, populated by monks, would have been so scary because it would have summoned this queasy feeling about sects and religious dogma - it would have been fabulous!).

As to where Ridley Scott is going with the Covenant sequel I don't know. Not developing a) the Engineers story arc and b) choosing the Alien to be a creation of a Robot whose circuits popped due to a lack of maintenance is a catastrophe. In my humble opinion the only way to fix this in a sequel is to a) reveal that the Planet 4 beings were not Engineers but merely another creation of theirs (otherwise the nimbus of the Engineers, letting themselfs be wiped out so helplessly and poorly, would be irreparably damaged) and b) that actually WY isn't under human control anymore but David (prior to the Prometheus mission) has hacked skynet-style into their system and HE is the one in control, communicating via Engineer emitters on a hidden, encrypted frequence to earth, arranging the Covenant mission to be launched, implementing a course right by Planet 4 while at the same time deleting it from the star maps - which is why they were surprised when finding it. Of course he would need to be the one who - again via Engineer technology - caused the neutrino-eruption just in time when the Covenant was a stones' throw away from Planet 4 (if Ridley Scott chooses the neutrino burst to be naturally caused and just a coincidence that it happened near Planet 4 would just be to implausible and my suspension of disbelieve couldn't handle it). If the humans aren't in control anymore this would bring back the element of Lovecraftian horror, which is to say that the humans actually were in control only for a blink of an eye - from when the LV 223 Engineers died 2.000 years ago until Weyland created David. Before 2.000 years ago and again since David was created the humans are merely puppets of powers they cannot understand, helpless while living under the ridiculous illusion of being in control. But ignorance is bliss and they do not know that their days are all but soon to be over.

Fascinating discovery... I too am shocked we've never looked deeper into this. It certainly sheds some light on those odd inconsistencies. Featured this topic so more can see it, nice post!

Isolation was really good. Maybe a combo of that with some of the action from CM could work.

The text is from the Aliens Colonial Marines Technical Manual released in 1995. Not from the Aliens Colonial Marines Game released in 2013.

As for the game, I agree that the gameplay mechanics were very bad on release, but in my opinion the Templar GFX v6 mod completely turned it into a new game.

The story of the game and it’s DLC: Stasis Interrupted, in my opinion, was very good and tied into the ACMTM very well. Again, that is my opinion.

But I’m one of the fans whose Aliens franchise ended at Aliens. Alien 3 was a let down (Hicks and Newt dead), A4 was satire, Prometheus was not really Alien, and Covenant killed the mystery for me.

For people like me, Aliens (1986) and the Technical Manual (1995) were the end of the franchise. I think the ACM game was written more for people like me than for the average fan.

With it being a sequel to Aliens and bringing Hicks back, etc. But that’s my opinion.

Alien fans may have missed those points since the game was so bad that they may not have even payed attention to the deeper and finer points?

Intriguing, good stuff.

Alien CM may have had a great story, but I saw so many reviews that said the game itself was horrible that I skipped it.

Aliens Colonial Marines and Stasis Interrupted had amazing stories that were a sequel to Aliens and even brought back Hicks.

Blackout is A:I sequel. Then comics: Resistance & Rescue.

I remember playing this. For a game based on a movie it actually wasn't bad.

There are enough shooters out there. An Isolation sequel would be better.

Ingeniero the evolution of a competing species, pushing aside the Xenomorph. 

I love looking at predator-prey relationships :)

The proposed competing species would have to have evolved with the Xenomorph species within their native ecosystem for such an initiate co-evolutionary path to develop. 

This would also show that the Xenomorph is not an apex predator in its native environment - but a meso-predator existing in a very competitive (low capacity / high demand) ecosystem.

Although it might seem to devalue the species knocking them off as Apex Predators it adds some interesting dynamics and depth to the species to explore. This also doesn't mean the Xeno cant be an Apex when inserted into a new ecosystem like Planet 4 :)

Ditto what Leto said  

No. In the comic book Life and Death, the black goo led to the degeneration of Aliens. The Queen could no longer lay healthy eggs, and the chestbursters were born dead and deformed.

Interesting that Alien: Labyrinth (1993-1994) Dark Horse does feature a form of proto-black goo - degenerative to the Xeno - has again been explored recently in Life and Death. 

Sounds like it would have been an over-hyped game kit-bashed with a bunch of pop video game tropes, with an uninspired nostalgia-filled generic plot.

Try Again.

hmmm..good one.

Guess i'd use sound to drive them to the surface thumpers or ultrasonics to debilitate....then pick them off. Wreck their hearing? Blind them with light(like David)

Flood the caves with rocket fuel and set it on fire?

Set up ant-gravity fields and pulp them.(set the gravity waves to heavy or light to float them)

Poison gas..nerve agent or something to put them asleep? 

It looks good, but doesn't really seem to have a LEGO-y vibe at all imo.

That is great scenario I Raptus....the evolution of a competing species, pushing aside the Xenomorph. 

Xenotaris' thoughts above regarding that the competing species might become a more dangerous form are reasonable due to the mutability seen on Planet 4.  Still, that is a novel approach in the trojan horse organism.

"So maybe the BEST OPTION has to be to go down to the HIVE and maybe Fill the Place with Combustibles with Powerful Explosives."

Combustibles have worked against the Xenomorph on LV-426....they would just need to use enough.

 Prometheus: Fire and Stone

The Engineer weapon below would wipe out the Xenomorphs in short order.

No. In the comic book Life and Death, the black goo led to the degeneration of Aliens. The Queen could no longer lay healthy eggs, and the chestbursters were born dead and deformed.

I think the blackgoo would just end up evolving them to a more dangerous form 

Bio-engineered Black Goo which affects the Xenomorph Horde the way the Engineers were rendered on Paradise - into immobile, deformed statues of bio-matter. But that of course assumes Xenomorphs are not immune to the effects of the pathogen, given it is what gave them life in the first place.

Some deadly virus / black goo could do the deed.

If nuking it from orbit won't work for some reason, nuke it from the ground.

Thats the SPIRIT ;)

Some Great Points/Finds Ingeniero

This is the kind of stuff that intrigues me.. lets look at the Xenomorph/Black Goo in the Context of a Weapon to basically KILL!

For the Company it was always a FOLLY to obtain a Xenomorph for what Purpose?  To use as they are as a WEAPON? 

*A Parasitic Organism you cant really CONTROL

*A Parasitic Organism that could Procreate out of CONTROL.

*A Parasitic Organism that has a Instinct to Procreate/Create a HIVE and would do everything in its POWER to meet this Objective.

We saw the Marines could Match a Xenomorph at Range, and you have to Wonder would Concentrating on more Advance Weapons Technology, Bio-Engineering Super Soldiers or using Synthetics as Military Personnel.  Are these all NOT more reliable/Controllable KILLING MACHINES?

When we come to the Black Goo this is more of a ENIGMA but you have to WONDER, do the Engineers possess other Weapons/Technology that can Destroy a World?

The Black Goo seems more Efficient than the Xenomorph if you are Desperate and Want to Destroy a Target with No Consideration of the Aftermath implications?  Unless the Xenomorph has a LIMITED LIFE SPAN then it does-not make a Better Weapon than DROPPING some Black Goo!

Which brings us to the SACRIFICIAL GOO, looking at what we are shown about that Scene, can we SAFELY assume that if this Substance was Rained Down upon the Engineer rather than Consumed would it NOT have a similar Effect?

Bombing a World with Sacrificial Goo by the Thousands of Urns would surely be a GREAT Weapon... especially in terms of to CLEAN UP a World.

This is NOT to change the Subject to the Xenomorph/Black Goo as a Bio-weapon.. but it is to ASK about maybe there are other Benefits with the Xenomorph or the Experiments that lead to it..  Which means what the Engineers were doing on LV-223.

And so if there are ways to attempt to UTILIZE such Organisms for the Purpose of Genetic Enhancements, and to try and Obtain some kind of IMMORTALITY from them.

Then this would give us another way to look at WHY the Company are Interested in such a FOLLY and WHAT maybe the Engineers had been attempting to do.

And i think if we look at RIPLEY 8 then maybe this is the Ultimate Potential and maybe the Engineers were attempting Similar?

I love the bowl too and that is the exact image I though of above BigDave.  Great catch Dark Nebula.

The Walter on Planet 4 was a little rusty with the Neomorph attack so we would need a few of the Walter Marine version in order to take on the hive.  

Here below is another reference to 8.

"We've got eight more recharge cycles to go before Origae-6?"

Alien: Covenant novelization, page 42.

In regards to 8, I do believe they are tying this to an attempt at Immortality by the Company.  Peter Weyland verifies this motive (at the expense of all others if need be) for his mission shortly before the end of Prometheus.

Michael Bishop developed multiple successful lines of Artificial Persons and should have looked back on his career with stoic satisfaction but had regrets in his failure to retrieve the xenomorph.  This regret below, I believe, ties to medicine that could have been developed with had they captured Ripley or the xenomorph on Fury 161. 

"his failure to convince Ellen Ripley of the xenomorph importance was his greatest professional regret." 

The Weyland-Yutani Report, page 139.

He was into it...he died during elective surgery ("an elective operation to upgrade his neural synapses.") trying to continuously improve his body.  Another way to look at it is that Michael Bishop couldn't get his mind around his failure on Fury 161 and tried to improve it to cure this.  Maybe.

Pharmacology

In the Weyland-Yutani Report, the COMPANY STATEMENT OF INTEREST describes the vision driving the multinational across the core systems.  "PHARMACOLOGY" is the first in a list of areas (PHARMACOLOGY, BIOENGINEERING, DEFENSE) that hold: 

"possibilities we can't yet dream of-are without limit. We have the resources, all we need is the Xenomorph."

The Company cites priorities and Pharmacology and Bioengineering are in the top 3...and that the Xenomorph is the way.  

Planet 4

That makes Planet 4 look somewhat even more like a drug trial, medicine testing.  Medicine that, of course, extends a lifespan...tending towards an attempt at Immortality.  And of course weapons testing (biological, mutagen-based).