New Replies (Page 180)

I think the ONLY way to Clear this all up would be if they decided to show and Explain the BLACK GOO as far as Origins, and if it is the same as the Sacrificial Goo and to go into more detail as far as HOW/WHY is the Substance a Radical Form of A.I

I think something that is OVERLOOKED is it appeared the Engineers really are Creators... or so its seemed..  it did not appear that their intentions are Automatically to Create the Pathogen that has Xenomorph/Deacon and Neomorph Traits to Destroy.

It seemed it was a Creation/Hybridization and Evolutionary Tool but its Process would Replace a Organism with a Hybrid and thus Destroy what the Organism was prior...

Which could be used as a Weapon......

Look at it this way...... IMAGINE if the URNS where full of the Sacrificial Goo.... you drop that down onto a World and then the Inhabitants would be Infected and Break Down and RESETS the Process of Evolution back Millions and Millions of Years.

If it is Programmable maybe it can be Programed to ONLY do this to Human Genomes, then other Organisms are NOT infected and Humans just become what ever the Engineer had lead to after his DNA reformed into the Water...

These make the Bio-Weapon much better as far as a RESET and ERADICATION Tool....  The Xenomorph is FLAWED for this Purpose....

So we have to go back and look at WHO/WHY and HOW was the Black Goo on LV-223 Obtained/Programed and those Experiments and what was going through the minds of those who had done this!   Which could reveal a Pretty Sinister/Perverted Agenda.  Where we could Speculate is this WHY those Engineers on LV-223 were called FALLEN!

If this all sounds Complex a Easy Fix is that the Goo does as it has been shown to do and the Sacrificial Scene in Prometheus is a Seeding of such Horrific DNA and NOT how the Engineers Seed Humanoid Life.

The Best Solution is a Combination.... show that this is a Substance that can Programed....  if we look at a Program that is a SET of 0/1  or you apply this to a Color for example on a Computer RED is made from changing the 3 Base Colors so RED is R=255, G=0 and B=0 or a CODE of #FF0000 now Light, Saturation and Hue play a Factor so a Darker Red the Light is changed from 128 to say 64 for a CODE of #800000

A Blue is CODE #0000FF

What i am saying is every Color the CODE Changes, by Changing the #0000FF code of Blue to say #0000EE will Slightly Change the Color... so my point being that i every Genome of a Organism is broken into CODE BASES

What if the Goo can be Programed to Change what ever Genome with a Given CODE so for example the Goo infects the Color Code #FF0000 to become #0000FF and thus Changes Red to Blue....

If the GOO can do that with Organic DNA/Genomes then you could Program it to Change a Organism from what Color Hair and Eyes a Human has to revert them back to a Primate etc.

If the GOO has a base of many series of say #000000 then maybe it can infect a Organism and then Map its Entire Genome into the GOO this Mapped Genome GOO then can either infect a Organism where it would PASS those Traits (or best/desired) and keep best/desired Traits of the Infected Organism to create a Hybrid.

But they could also take that Captured DNA/Genome and Turn Off/On what ever Genome/Traits.

What if they also could program it to effect Certain Genome/Traits of a Organism that Matches what is Programed and instead of Changing the Organism it just RESETS all the Genomes to a Certain Code that breaks them down or causes the Organism to Solidify?

You have the PERFECT TOOL for Creation, Evolution and Destruction.

It only takes some Corrupt or Sinister Engineer/Being to attempt to Create something Horrific out of this Stuff, or to come across a Organism they had NOT created and took a interest in and became Obsessed with this Organism and begin to use their Creation Tool to Experiment and Create Horrors (based off this Organisms DNA/Genomes) with the Intention of using them on some Species they have some BEEF with (Problem).

Regarding the Queen....

Indeed the Black Goo or even the DNA the Xenmorph Shares with the Experiments on LV-223 would likely have a Quick Evolution as opposed to that Natural Process with most Life on Earth.

The PLOT for AC where it seems without David there would be NO EGGS on LV-426, has made things a bit more Complicated well Time Restricted..

I think Regardless of WHO/WHEN the Xenomorph was Created, there is NO reason why the Creator could not have Engineered Different Variants with different Procreative Methods.

The Xenomorph in ALIEN and ALIENS could thus be Different Versions, stored in different parts of the Cargo Hold.

Alien Engineers/Genesis had indicated the Engineers had Engineered 8 different Versions of the Xenomorph in 8 Separate Cargo Holds.

So that could make sense if we go the route that a Queen is a Produce of further Engineering.... but then it could also be that the Queen is a Product of the Organism Evolving itself to adapt to a better Procreation.

IF they continue with the route that the Xenomorph did-not exist (as far as the Eggs on LV-426) prior to Alien Covenant, then i am sure Fans would expect to know HOW does a Queen from Aliens come to be?

Who knows how that comes to be and how many Layers of Engineering/Evolving would occur before we get to the QUEEN we see in the Franchise... we can but Speculate.

Certainly Chli

What we have to remember is so much gets changed as they go on, INDEED the Earlier Drafts and Concepts had shown Fifield to be more of a Xenomorph Hybrid, had they kept some of these the Connection would have been more easier to Understand.  But some of the Concepts he looked more like the END PRODUCT that we had...

It was easier to see the Connection with the Hammerpedes and Trilobite (Deacon) and so the Holloway and Fifield infections seemed to look a little odd... we could speculate that the GOO was Programed to effect Human Genome in a Different way.  Dr Shaws Baby being different because it infected a Egg Cell and not a Fully Formed Humanoid.

The Engineers we see Various Holes in their Suits, some suits you can clearly see are HOLLOW!  When we look at what Dr Shaw had indicated about a Infection/Outbreak and that she seen similar before (Ebola) and the Head that Exploded.... the Body was Hollow... so we could speculate the Big Head Room for some reason had a Environment that Prevented the Pathogen from doing what it does.... Hence the Head was Preserved.... maybe this explains why the Engineers were trying to get to that Room.

So we can Speculate that they had been infected to a point that there Bodies would start to either Break Down like the Sacrificial Engineer, or that they would Mutate like Fifield before eventually then breaking down like the Sacrificial Engineer.

I have said this before, but the Process of being Broken Down looks like a Violent Chemical Reaction as the Pathogen Replicates and Breaks down its Host... and the Infected Target just breaks down into Particles, or a Soup then maybe this when contained within a Suit would amount to a Build Up of Pressure and then the Suit would Explode from certain points..

The Big Head Room must have been able to HALT this Process... but once the Head was reanimated then the Process Began at Speed until POP the Head Exploded... Imagine this Reaction more Intense but contained inside the Helmet/Suit?  I think that explains the Holes.

A lot of the Problems come from changes and NOT thinking about what they are showing, so we have some Inconsistencies.  Yes earlier ideas for Fifield was he became a Hybrid just as the Hammerpedes were and in FACT with the earlier Draft... Fifield had Acid Blood.

Also we only ever saw that single Eye Worm of Holloways we had NO explanation for this, its only the Unused Props that seemed to indicate that he would have produced many of this Worm-like Parasites  so it would seem these had began to Replicate inside of him or grow inside of him and we could ponder if one of these had Infected Dr Shaw's Egg Cell or indeed one of these made it to the Womb and was treated by her Body as a Embryo... (the Infected Egg seems more plausible).

Its hard to work out what is going on.... the Hammerpedes are simple to Understand, and if we go by Fifield from Spaights Drafts then they are the same as what happened to the Worms in Prometheus.

The GOO from Prometheus had evolved from Jon Spaights idea of Nano-Scarabs.... but with the Scarabs the Process was SIMPLE

BASE Scarabs (or Goo) would Consume (Break Down) a Organism that consumes the stuff, this BASE would then CARRY the DNA/Genomes of the Organism and would then PASS this stored DNA/Genome onto another Organism that it came into contact with.

WOLF consumes Sacrificial Scarabs/Goo and it is broken down and leaves behind a Substance or many Scarabs that STORE the Wolves DNA.....

This Stored DNA be it inside the Scarabs or Goo, then becomes a Carrier of this DNA that it passes onto another Organism and it will cause the WOLF DNA to be infused with the Organisms DNA to Create a Hybrid.

If this infects a Human... we could get like a Werewolf!

Thats how SIMPLE the Intention/Idea was.... so the Scarabs/Goo would act as a Hybridization Tool

Next Break Down the Werewolf by the same Process (Sacrificial) and the Resulting Substance/Stored DNA is then passed onto a CAT then what you have then is a Organism that in THEORY has 50% CAT, 25% Wolf and 25% Human.

If this Hypothesis is Correct, you could keep MIXING Organisms to Create a Desired Result.    For Example, use the Sacrificial Stuff on that 50% Cat, 25% Wolf and 25% Human on a 50/50 Lizard/Human Hybrid and in Theory you then have a  37.5% Human, 25% Lizard, 25% Cat and 12.5% Wolf type of HYBRID.

THIS is how i speculate David had create the Xenomorph by mainly using Deacon and Neomorph DNA with adding other Traits of other Organisms in his NOTES to create a Strand of DNA/Goo that he then used on Dr Shaw's Egg Cells to create the Ovomorph.

However the Problem is the Humanoids.... for this i can only assume the GOO was Programed to infect their Genome in a Different way..... it would Replicate/Spread and Break Down some, while others would Evolve into a Mutant (like Fifield) and become Aggressive before it too would Break Down.

some earlier SET leaks did show some Engineers attacking each other which we never saw in Alien Covenant, these Engineers (some) looked Mutated a bit like Fifield.

So maybe what i speculated about could be close to what is going on.

However those Engineers became Dedicated/Mummified and never Broke Down into NOTHING.. the only Explanation i can give for that are as follows.

*The Urns/Goo are Programed to attack the Humanoid Genome and Replicate and Spread but then after a Period of Time it would render the Molecular Structure of the Organism into a Calcified/Desiccated State

*As above but this is the Process of the URNS being Weaponized as Intended by the Ship (Explode) as opposed to Leaking as in Prometheus... hence why the Engineers turned to like Stone instead of Breaking Down to Nothing.

*Those Engineers would either had Broke Down or became Mutants, but some SAFETY Device was Activated on the Planet that within a Radius had Turned every Living Thing into a like Stone Like Desiccated State (to KILL/STOP the Infection).

It's tough to argue that chli is wrong.

S.M.

The deleted scene of Fifield with an elongated head suggests that he was mutating into a xenomorph. Still, the scene which made it into the movie showed a mutated Fifield with enhanced strength and resilience and a high amount of aggression attacking every living thing in sight.

BigDave

A.I. is a programme and you could argue that DNA is as well so the difference between organic and synthetic isn’t, perhaps, crystal clear? What the mutagenic pathogen does is that it mutates its victims, rewrites the DNA and change them into aggressive monsters, killing everything in sight (a perfect biological weapon).

Holloway swallowed a tiny drop of the pathogen whereas the sacrificial Engineer and the Engineers on Planet 4 were exposed to large quantities. I suppose that if hosts are subjected to large doses, they just break down?

As for the evolution of a Queen, evolution normally takes millions of years (the mutagenic pathogen probably accelerates this, though). From AC to Alien it’s about 17 years and the action in Aliens 57 years after that. The multitude of eggs that Kane encounters in the cargo hold/cave suggests, perhaps, that a Queen has already been playing?

As for David’s tinkering with biological experiments, there are hybridizations of different lifeforms and mutations combined with the pathogen, but the thing is that you get a xeno-like creature even without that. We have the Deacon and the neomorph as well as the hammerpedes and Fifield (especially the deleted scene) turning into an aggressive, xeno-like monster.

"What movies star is going to want to play a Engineer?"

I think it depends on the Plot..... it does-not have to be a Well Known Actor.....  with ALIEN the cast was basically NOT well known... same can be said for a number in Prometheus and Alien Covenant.

The Problem comes down to really what the PLOT is and HOW the Engineers will be played...

A all Engineer Scene does-not require any Major Special Effects or 7ft Actors..

The Problem really is how LONG would such scenes be, and HOW much Dialog, and then its a case of which Actors would want to play SMALL ROLES or ones where they have to SPEAK in a Alien/Ancient Language with Sub Titles.

And its how deep these scenes are and detailed and if MOST FANS would be interested....

Connecting with a ALIEN Species like the Engineers and seeing them have a number of scenes with Dialog and having to rely on Subtitles may make Fans not FEEL any Connection..

You would have to have scenes were the Engineers are interacting with Humans.... the Problems then become as Follows..

*Size:  if they dont use Special Effects and Camera Trickery (which LOTR did or even the Christmas Movie ELF) then your going to need 7ft+ Actors which could limit the Range/Quality of the Acting.

*Dialog: its then how do they Communicate? do we have to have a Android Interpreter or a Single Character who does this, and what about Subtitles!

Thats not to say they could NOT have tackled this...

But then its a case of WHEN and WHERE does these Scenes Take Place?  In the PAST (Flashback)

The best chance they had was with a Prometheus Sequel

Dr Shaw and David arrive at a Engineer World that is FAR FAR away, they discover only a Small Number of Engineers.

Then either David teaches Dr Shaw some Engineer during the Journey, or the Engineers have a way to allow Dr Shaw to understand them... and so we can have a FEW Lines in Sub-titles but then they all Speak English for Convenience to the Audience.

I think the BIG Problem is i dont think MANY of the Fans want to see our Engineers in a deep way, showing us what they Created, why they visited us and all that Chariots of the Gods stuff...

I think they would only be interested in Engineers like in Prometheus (LV-223) and their Bio-Mechanical Technology, but to a Greater Level than we saw in Prometheus.

And they would want to only see them Portrayed as BAD ASSES... like the Predators, and only interested in the Technology/Ships and Xenomorph/Experiment Connections and NOT what ever Shenanigans they get up to Visiting Worlds and handing out Star Maps/Teaching stuff.

So i think Fans would want to see our Engineers Return as in...

Rock Up in their Ships and with their Experiments and Unleash Hell....

Discover a Ship or Outpost and Activate a Hologram that shows us a Little, then we get a Flash Back Scene.

I dont think the Fans would want to be seeing much TALKING from the Engineers, just see them KILLING STUFF like we see with the Predators.

I Raptus i also agree with MonsterZero.

I think there was so much you could do with the Standard Xenomorph, once you have explained where they come from its a case of THEN WHAT?

MonsterZero goes on a lot about Characters being the main thing, i think that the PLOT is the Main thing and then its a case of getting the Characters to Portray the Plot and Execute it and the Scenes and so Poor Characters/Execution would be a Problem... so Getting them Right is Important.... in FACT.... Very Important, Special Effects, Plot all wont matter if the Characters and Portrayal/Execution is POOR.

And so the other Point they raised is Valid.... for a Series to work, be that TV or Series of Movies, especially as far as Sequels..... to Continue a Route of having to RESET and Start with NEW Characters in Each Movie is something that can Effect Fans...  it works best when a Strong Character/Characters Survive for the Sequel... but that does-not have to be the case as along as a Sequel has Characters we can connect with....  just (and i think MZ point) that you can get Invested in a Character in a Movie and then in the sequel you already have that Connection to Build Upon, instead of STARTING again with NEW Characters, because then you would have to wait until 40-60% of the Movie to get that Connection... were as if you carry a Good Character over from a Previous Movie you already have a Heavy Connection with them from the Get Go!

Regarding the Digitigrade Hind Legs 

The First Time we saw this was ALIENS with the Queen, the Queen being a Puppet and NOT a Man a Suit.

With Alien Resurrection it seemed the Intention was the same (Digitigrade Hind Legs ) and the CGI shots they had such Hind Legs just not as Bent as the Queen.  However the Man-In-Suit shots the Legs were NOT Digitigrade

Flash Forwards to Alien Isolation and we have the Xenomorph that has Digitigrade Hind Legs.  And so it could be likely that they would be shown as such in Future.... Special Effects Budget/Technology dependent.

Regarding Daniels and the Queen....

Who knows what the Plan was at the Time as things could Change, i think if Alien Covenant was a HIT and/or FOX had Green Lit the Sequel to go into Production in 2018/2019 then i feel that maybe Daniels would have been involved in Davids Experiments to Further Obtain more EGGS!

But i would NOT have expected her to had simply been infected by a Face Hugger or Pathogen that then Spawns a Queen Chest Buster..... but if this was the Route i would not think it would be QUITE the same as in ALIENS.

I would have assumed that David would have made her a Queen in the following ways.

1) She would be Incapacitated while David Extracts her Egg Cells and Experiments/Creates Ovomorphs from her, but then in what way would this be a Perfection over Dr Shaw? Unless a Fertile Female would offer more Yield?   How would she be Incapacitated? that could be Interesting...

2) She is evolved into a Hybrid that then would Produce Eggs

I think we can look at Davids other Comments on how he wanted to offer Dr Shaw a chance to Create a New Eden and Evolve her, but she rejected... and then look at some of the Concept Work/Art that Matt Hatton and Dane Hallett had done (Davids Drawings of Dr Shaw) i think these were Plans/Ideas of his that he could likely want to TRY OUT on Daniels.

"Well, who knows what Holloway and Fifield would have become eventually?"

Who knows... Ridley Scott did say that the same thing would happen to them as the Dead Engineers....

Fifield seemed to Mutated into a Toxic Avenger but other Concepts he was to become a Hybrid.... looking at Fiifeld and the Engineers, i think we could Speculate that some Victims would Mutate into Aggressive Versions of themselves, their Heads would SWELL and then Explode.... the Infected Organism then breaks down...

Holloway was infected differently, it could be a Smaller Exposure meant his Mutation/Degradation was Slower and it appeared he was more like the Sacrificial Engineer but at a Slower Rate... but then he could have been in the Process of being the same as Fifield at a Slower Rate.

The Interesting thing was the EYE-WORM and these Props (never used)

When looking at this and Fifield... then this Concept comes to MIND.

So maybe this are a Indication of what was Happening to Holloway and Fifield?

This is going to be one of those Debates where its about Personal Opinion and Interpretation.   And to be fair this can arise from Inconsistency and those working on the Movies constantly Changing how things are shown and changing how they view certain things as time goes on.

First of all Chli i think you are right to point out the Experiments and Bio-Logical Warfare and certainly its No Accident that Janek mentioned about the Lab that he had to BLOW-UP because someone Split something and Dr Shaw when she talks about the Outbreak and how she had seen something similar before (Ebola), as these are added to HELP drive us to what had happened on LV-223

But the Flip Side is you could argue these are merely those Characters Assumptions... of which the same can also be said about Kane and Dallas as far as their Assumptions with the Space Jockey and Cargo Hold.

Certainly as of Prometheus there was a Connection between what at the VERY LEAST was in those URNS and the Xenomorph and also the Mutations/Monsters we saw in Prometheus.

It was just NEVER really explained what the Connection was, not in a Spoon Fed/No Shadow of Doubt Way.

But there was a Connection....  Ridley Scott did his best to explain it by Suggesting that something in the Cargo Hold had Evolved and GOT to the Space Jockey.... again while that may seem like he is indicating the Derelict was NOT supposed to be Transporting Eggs... it is again Vague and not Spoon Fed in what he said.

The MURAL does-not really provide any Evidence to suggest the Xenomorph at all, it was merely a Easter Egg of sorts and Tribute to HR Giger, but those who worked on it did say it was the Deacon that was depicted. 

The Mural thus indicates that either  (1) The Organism was a Older Original Deacon that lead to Various Experiments, including variations of Face Hugger. (2) that it indicates that Various Experiments/Face Huggers had eventually lead to what we see depicted in the Mural.

But as the Mural is something that is Very Abstract and can be Interpreted in a number of Different Ways.

It actually shows that these things that do-not give any Concrete Answers, allows people to come up with various Interpretations and Theories that lead to debates, where we cant really say anyone is 100% Right or Wrong and so the MYSTERY remained.

Alien Covenant then came along and it kind of Muddied the Waters a little, on ONE HAND it offered more of a insight into the Pathogen/Mutagen but on the other it became more of a McGuffin well certainly reveled something about it that allows for them to allow the GOO to do what ever they WANT without any real further Explanations... as its a Radical Form of A.I.

This however does-not mean we conclude its like a Machine or Mechanical in any way, as A.I can be expanded beyond something that is a MACHINE or Program that Runs a Machine.

The Radical A.I thus likely implies the GOO is either (or both) a Intelligent Virus/Pathogen or a Programmable Virus/Pathogen.

The idea that Spaights had given for his Alien Engineers/Genesis seemed to be more SIMPLE and is what Prometheus appeared to show (in part).

I do think that Fundamentally though Chli you have grasped what the Pathogen and Connection is.

I will add my Interpretation to these though.

• The xenomorph (and all its variants) is the result of the bioweapon - the mutagenic pathogen. It’s not a natural species.

I have to agree as far as the Xenomorph the intention was it was a Engineered Organism.

• The amount of pathogen is important for the outcome (sacrificial Engineer, Fifield, Holloway) as is the way it infects the host (inhaling, ingestion etc).

To a degree YES, but looking at Alien Covenant and the Radical A.I then we could Speculate the Substance either can be Programed to Infect in Certain Ways, or it has its own Intelligence and decides HOW it chooses to Infect a Target.

• The ovomorphs are produced by xenomorph Queens (which are mutated Hominidae females). The first Queen was probably once Daniels.

If we go/accept that prior to Alien Covenant the Xenomorph did-not Exist, then maybe Daniels or another Human or even some Hybrid that David creates could lead to a Evolution of the Alien Covenant Xenomorph, but i think there are quite a FEW layers of Evolution to go until we reach the BEAST in ALIEN and its likely the Queen in ALIENS is either a Genetically Altered Xenomorph Experiment or a Natural Evolution of the Organism (prior Xenomorph).

• No one really created the xenomorph - the variants are the result of the mutagenic pathogen changing the hosts DNA (different results depending on the amount of pathogen and the host). The xenomorph is a mutated human/Engineer.

This is open to debate, especially if we consider Alien Covenant, which would indicate the Black Goo acted as a Genetic Creation/Hybridization Tool, it is likely the Xenomorph is a Amalgamation of similar Results to Dr Shaw and her Deacon, the Neomorphs and the Black Goo to Splice/Merge various Traits of Various Organisms with the Deacon/Neomorph until the result is the Ovomorph. (throwing out Alien Covenant, then i would be drawn to conclude the Pathogen in those URNS had been obtained by something Related to the Xenomorph a Organism that was the Progenitor to the Various Experiments including the Deacon, and Xenomorph.  You have to wonder is the Fresco Creature that Progenitor?

• The mural depicts experiments with the mutagenic pathogen on Hominidae (Engineers/humans).

Certainly as i mentioned earlier, it seems to imply that the Organism (Deacon?) in the Mural was either something that was a Result of Trial and Error with Various Experiments and Forms of Face Hugger, or that this Deacon was used to further Create Various Forms of other Face Hugger.

If we go by Ridley's musings Holloway and Fifield wouldn't have become anything.  They're heads would've exploded like the re-animated Engineer.

Or possibly like the Engineers on Planet 4.

MonsterZero

I’m thinking that the xenomorph would wipe out all fauna so the food supply would run out. It would eventually starve to death?

S.M.

Well, who knows what Holloway and Fifield would have become eventually?

Gavin

I agree with #1 and #2 but I wouldn’t say that #3 is pure speculation. David says that he will do to her what he did to Shaw and make her his Queen and that “this is going to change everything”.

David might have had a hand in the development of the xeno-variant we see in Alien, but the mutagenic pathogen alone (and a host) can create xeno-variants (the Deacon e.g.).

Gavin Just small corrections:

1. Viruses are not cells. They are strings of DNA or RNA protected by a protein capsule (capsid) and coated by a layer of lipids to confuse the host. They drift around until they attach themselves to cells. We know that the goop does not reproduce itself in a host but mutates it. So by no definition is it a virus.

2. The Xenomorph from Covenant has "digitigrade" hind legs, but also dorsal spikes yet it is spawned from a human.

But that again it does not of these matter.

A few amendments I would make to your conclusion chli are...

#1 - The Mutagenic Pathogen is biomechanical in nature, being composed of both organic matter (viral cells) and inorganic matter (Nano AI).

#2 - Born Xenomorphs are bio-mechanically reconstructed/mutated clones of their hosts (Big Chap had a human skull, and the Runner had digitigrade hind legs (and no dorsal appendages).

#3 - Leave out the Daniels part, its pure speculation, and contradicts the fact that the mural on LV-223 references the Xenomorphs life cycle, meaning (and putting it bluntly) that David didn't create shit. 

I don't buy that Daniels would be mutated into a Queen - but if she were fertile (unlike Shaw) she could become a more viable test subject for David that leads to a Queen.

Like your conclusion. Daniels as the first Queen is cool.

Xenomorphs seem to me a BAD side effect. I want my enemies dead(planet 4 engineers style)! I don't want to have to clean up a nest of xenomorphs after they killed my foes.

Maybe we can engineer a limited xenomorph life span?

Life span of the xeno should be a top priority of the weapons division.   (infest the enemies base...then wait a month...everything is dead...begin the party)

"Millions of carcasses littered LV-223. The stench was awful. The rotting mounds of flesh wasn't the real problem though....It was the maggots...Billions of the little suckers. Deacons came and went, couple of weeks tops...Maggots came and stayed. Got into everything...including our water supply. Real plague stuff."

Sorry Im late to the party but ditto what MonsterZero said :) 

Has the success or failure of Terminator: Dark Fate influenced Disney's position in any way?

I will when i am not Busy, give a few ideas......

Its hard to come up with anything Original Though... basically everything has kind of been done, and so all we get is Movies that borrow a bit here and there...

I had a Movie Idea some 8 Years ago.... kind of a Space Vampire Plot..... It was NOT a Original though as it loosely Borrowed from Various Franchises....

More so from Planet of the Vampires, It Came from Another World, War of the Worlds and well a little of Species but mainly a Vampire Like Plot..

I lost my rough draft but i remember what it was mostly, and so i will pitch it more when i am not busy..

In a Nutshell..... a Piece of a Exploded Asteroid lands on Earth, and Scientist Discover it contains a Organism (Micro) that has 3 Sets of DNA...   they find out it uses this to adapt to its Environment and that it can Replicate/Program different DNA so that it has 3 Different DNA it can modify and the Organism has Regenerative Ability.

The Organism has a DNA back up that is some Base DNA Organism, it has a DNA that changes/evolves to the Environment and Regenerates and a Plain DNA which it can Copy itself to.

The Scientist see this as a Break Through they can use to Regenerate Genetic Material, and begin Tests

The Alien DNA would Evolve a Lab Rat, so that its traits are evolved for its Environment, and it can Re-Generate Cells....   The Organism however needs some Molecules from Blood to provide and replace its ONE DNA Structure, and so it gets this from Blood of another Organism.

Without this Substance/Material the The Ever Changing Part of its DNA would just DIE...  The other Part which is what ever Hybrid is Created/Evolve would also DIE... The other DNA always seems to remain Dormant and what remains is a Dead Organism that has this Dormant Base DNA,  the DNA of the Hybrid and just Dead DNA of the Evolutionary/Programmable if you would DNA.

The Organism cant feed off the Dormant DNA or Hybrid, it requires the 2ND DNA strain to Function which requires some Substance that it requires of a Organism.

The Lab Rats, will Survive as long as they have Clean Blood/Material of another Organism... The Rats with this will also Regenerate, they are basically Immortal like Vampire Rats.

However what they do is also take Traits of other Organisms, so a Rat is Fed a Fish, and then nothing much happens until a Rat is put in a Tank with a Fish and then it Feeds on the Fish and then it Mutates to take on the Fish DNA as well to adapt to be Aquatic.

Scientist discover the Micro Organism acts like a Virus, it infects a Organism that Regenerates but then takes Traits from other Organisms if they are a advantage to its Survival.

Anyway at some point they Test on Monkeys and then suffer a Outbreak.... they Notice the Monkeys DNA however started to have the Dormant ALIEN DNA imprinted...

Humans get infected and then the Dormant Alien DNA starts to imprint too as its found a Viable Host with the Capacity to be Intelligent, so we have Hybrid Human Vampire Types that can NOW infect and Spread this Virus.

These Hybrids start to work together (maybe Imprinted Memory) they can Regenerate, Pass on their Virus to Certain Organisms... but they can take on traits from Organisms they Feed On....

This was all a bit Complex and Whacky though lol more like a Species, meets War of the Worlds, Meets The Thing meets I am Legend lol

It is discovered that for some reason High UV will start to break down the DNA, and while exposed the DNA can not repair itself so they cant Regenerate, and Long Exposure the Organism just Dies.

But any real exposure the Organism cant Regenerate... so if you Cut a Limb off while its in the Sun, it wont grow back... only if the Organism can get out of the UV Rays.

A Mortal Wound while exposed to UV.... say Heart, Brain will KILL the Organism completely.

Fire Also Kills them lol

In Context to that last post and the OT...

Then any Movie or TV Series that would cover the Engineers would be something that Disney would maybe feel would NOT make them much Interest and Money.... more so if we dont have the Prometheus Engineers and Bio-Mechanical Aesthetic look.... but this would COST more Money.

The Engineers and World like we saw in Alien Covenant would cost LESS... especially if we have a Limited use of the HR Giger Inspired Aesthetic or Technology thats Advanced...

Would a Stargate with Bald 7-8ft Humans looking like in Alien Covenant really attract the Fans?  I doubt it.

So any use of the Engineers would just be as a Limited Appearance where they would rock up in a Small Number in their Ships and Suits and basically just ACT like the Predators... so we would have like a AVP but replace the Predators with LV-223 Engineers.

But it would be expected that the Humans and Xenomorphs would take the PRIORITY.....

So i think regardless.... the Engineers are Dead in the Water.... apart from maybe a Cameo and would be to the Disney ALIEN Franchise..... just as important and shown as the EWOKS from Star Wars lol

I guess its a case of wait and see for Disney.... they did indicate they had a Interest in the Franchise as indeed there is a Market for the Product.....  But who is to say if thats only going to be as far as Merchandise, Toys/Games, Video Games and Comics/Novels.

When it comes down to Movies its a case of MONEY as they are a BIG Investment, and the Prequels have not been to every fans Cuppa-Tea!...... and Alien Covenant and the Direction it sets up is a Bitter Pill to Swallow.

There would be a HIGHER interest in ALIEN movies that gets back to what the Original 4 had done, more so the Action Element.  And this is kind of more UP their ALLEY (Disney), at the Moment it seems they are more interested in the likes of the Marvel Franchise, the Avatar.....

And we also have to know that Disney may not be so keen on R/18 Rated Material and they see more Profit in Franchises that are Action Based and are available to Wider Audience such as Star Wars.

We had TV Series Rumors... but again with a TV show it depends what Budget that Disney would INVEST!

The Madolorian is reported to cost $100M for 8 Episodes, but that could rise to $120M.  With that kind of Budget then YES you could do a ALIEN Series Justice, if its a 6-8 Episodes.  However STAR WARS is HUGE and the Alien Franchise just does not have the Wider Appeal and so i doubt they would invest HALF of that.

With a lower budget you would be limited to Special Effects, now some would say that ALIEN was great because you did-not see the Xenomorph much and you may-not need to show the Beast in Full....

But would the Mainstream Fanbase, and potential other Fans really want to see a TV Series with just 1-2 Monsters that are Hardly shown?  Or would they expect Multiple and Queens, and sadly if thats the case then a Xeno Count like between Aliens and Alien Resurrection would require a HIGH Budget or Below Standard Special Effects.

A OPTION could be to License out the Franchise like they do with the Games.... where they dont INVEST in the Project but they receive a SET FEE or/and a %

That is awesome dk.  We have to raise them right.

Ingeniero I gave the 8 disc Quadrilogy to my grand daughter when I upgraded to the Anthology. She really wasn't into that kind of movie at the time but might grow into it. At any rate, it is nice to have a physical copy since you can never be sure when things in the cloud will just disappear.

That's right dk.  I have my cherished Blue-Ray Alien set and I bought the DVD set again too when it was announced they were going in the vault.  I (a spoiled person) needed to upload my digital pout because I couldn't pull up Alien in one of the various ways I "can" watch it.

A good point you make above ignorantGuy.  

I hope so (Hulu).  Disney took out more long-term leases at Pinewood studios (source) and that gives them the room to film many things at once and pipe it to somewhere to watch.  

dk, the Alien series might only be noticed by the astute intellectual.  We, here, might take that for granted but it is hard to find in the real world.  

Over the past few weeks, at work, I hear people going ga ga over Disney+ and how they binge watch stuff. Then they look at me like a deer in the headlights when I ask if any Alien movies or Ash vs Evil Dead are on there (I know it is a Netflix exclusive series, but a lot of them have Netflix too). It seems very clear that the audience has zero interest in anything that appeals to darker subject matter. Whatever.

Ingeniero Disney+ is oriented towards family friendly stuff, so it is pretty obvious why a series about the rape monster is not there. Don't forget that Hulu is fully controlled and majority-owned by Disney. That would be a more logical place for the series to be. 

Ingeniero That is one big reason to own the DVDs/BRs. Buy once and watch at one's convenience.

double tap

No Alien Films On Disney+

We have been provided with updates from Fox, Disney rumors, and more rumors.  I have consumed this bread and am left wanting.

There are no Alien movies on Disney+ the last time it was checked and didn't realize that "in the vault" meant not on Disney+.  And, the Alien movies are available to buy/rent on other outlets.

Why can you rent it digitally and not have it in the Disney+ subscription?  

Wanting and pissed.  

Think about that.  Buy a subscription to Disney+, no Alien films but you can pay to watch them on cable and satellite outlets, rent on YouTube, Amazon...that sucks.  

Dead in the water is a compliment.  

The Disney strategy above is garbage for Alien fans unless you wish to pay elsewhere to watch Disney content.  

The Film franchise has been somewhat dead in the water during the past couple of years only to lift up for air for short periods of time with the release of novels, video games, and the short films.  

All very good but a bit chaotic in regards to where the films are headed.  The novels offer so many great stories to pull from for film.  Alien: Resurrection grew on me over time and was better to watch after reading the novelization.  A continuation from there or in an area in the other novels would be just fine for film.  

Really, anything would be just fine because we got squat now and the Disney+ strategy to send you elsewhere to watch an Alien film SUCKS.

It SUCKS!!!!

Thank you for all this support. I should have some concept art by this weekend.

Excellent concept you propose Insectoid comics.  

Thank you for sharing with us and many will certainly look forward to any updates on your progress.

MonsterZero, good stuff (as always).

(:

easily fixed..remove any weyland yutani egg/goo stuff. 

Make it a crew of androids and they bring it back to a space station or Earth/colony. They don't know any better...they are just trying to help humanity.

So to Continue.. Gavin...

This is exactly the points that you had given...

It could be more HARDER to Rescue the Prequels than to just IGNORE  them.... a FIX could be to Reboot Alien Covenant.... but then they would think its Easier to just IGNORE the both of them.

How many people who saw or would see the Prequels and Alien Franchise who were NOT Born prior to say 1986.. how many of those would be DISAPPOINTED if the Prequels became something that Disney would want us to Pretend that never happened?

These Generations that they can Market and Make more Money out of as far as to EXPLORE and Evolve the Franchise, and the Generations Prior who were around when ALIENS came out or ALIEN, i would say a Higher % would not be as Displeased if the Prequels were THROWN into the None-Canon Bin..... if the other Option would be Swallow the Hard Pill that Alien Covenant had delivered.

HOWEVER....................

This does not mean any NEW Movies should be Confined to BUG WARS... although there is a Market for that, you can STRAY a little away from the QUEEN, and Eggs especially as far as Aesthetically similar to what we had in the Franchise.

So you can Evolve and Change the Beast, you dont have to have it that there are these Eggs, with These Arachnid looking Face Vaginas and they are Laid by Queens and Produce our Xenomorph's we have seen all Too Often.

*Did they Originate from someplace else or Process (which is what the Prequels attempted to do).

Or do we go and take them as a Ancient Alien Organism and look at WHY would some People want to OBTAIN them and Question is this similar to what the Space Jockey had attempted to their DOWN-FALL.

Because the QUEEN ==> Egg Formula

Then the IF we can obtain Eggs and we use them to Destroy/Kill People we want to Get Rid Of, just as we could do with Chemical Weapons...  then i feel THIS route is LIMITED and Eventually would get STALE..

Unless you like to see Aesthetically the Xenomorph going around Laying Eggs, Face Hugging Chest Bursting and Killing Folk and then seeing them POPPED off by Marine Types or Heroine/Hero....

There is only so much of this and so much Run, Hide and Shoot that can be done.....

It would have to be about the Back Ground Plot and Agenda more than the ALIEN or MARINES... it would require GOOD CHARACTERS...

But more so..... it would be about WHO/WHY would someone want to go after such a Horrific Organism, to what END and what Agenda (which has been done) and so then its more so about WHAT happens if they Succeed? And what else can they use the Organism for?

Alien Resurrection kind of indicated this, and it appears Blomkamps Alien 5 also may have tackled similar.

Because i feel you cant go around and have it that Eventually the Company/Humanity manage to find a way to Extract and Store the Xenomorph Safely.... then WAIT to use them as a Eradication Tool on any Enemy or Threat they would want to use them on... instead of NUKE/BOMB them!

Then show them use them as such and it gets out of HAND or that they suffer a Outbreak while trying to do this... as this has been COVERED over and over really... well also as well as Failed Attempts to Obtain the Organism...

You can go a FEW more Rounds with such... but then you have to Freshen it up...

The other OPTION would be a Revelation that the Xenomorphs themselves can EVOLVE to be able to Traverse Space and Build Stuff.... or Reveal that their Creators can do this and Introduce them..... but this is what the Prequels attempted to do...

And to revel the Space Jockey as a Slave to a Different Race or a Different Race Entirely (reboot Engineers) may offer as many PIT-FALLS as the Prequels Faced.

Likewise to explore the Origins of the Xenomorph as a Race that could Build and Create Ships that can then become a Threat to Humanity, could be making them more so a STARSHIP TROOPERS like Explanation.

PAST IS THE PAST.... it should not be touched upon.... left alone!

After we go a Few more Rounds of the same old, same old, we need to look at what becomes of WHEN someone decides to Experiment on those Eggs beyond using them as they are... or a Event that causes those Eggs/Organisms to Evolve, or even some Mutation of them or Infected Hosts.

Ripley 8 and the Clones was a Good Start.

In CLOSING....

The Franchise does-not have to be about Ripleys, be it Ellen Ripley, Amanda Ripley, or say Amanda's Off-Spring or any other relation.

But i do think again these kind of Connections is WHAT it is that Disney would GO FOR!

I think we would just be in store for... Ripley, Queen and Eggs...  Lets Hope that Disney prove me WRONG!

I think you raise Great Points Gavin......

I mean NO Disrespect by this, but there is a Large Fandom of ALIEN Fans who are more into the Popcorn Canon Fodder Xenomorph Aspect that is seen in ALIENS and Alien Resurrection and a Majority of the Games, Comics and Movies.

Aliens, Guns, Run and Shoot and Hide with Bigger Alien or Queen revealed and a Hero/Heroine Saves the Day are what i think a lot of those who enjoy and would associate the ALIEN Franchise with.

I respect Ridley Scott for trying something different, as the BEAST was kind of Cooked... but Sadly its a FACT that the Franchise is more Associated with the ALIENS and Various Comics and Video Games adaption of the Xenomorph and the Action Style, and so going for a Prequel Project that would NOT be about the Beast or Explain its Origins was a BANE of contention for Fans who would have expected in PART these to be Answered.

Ridley Scott wanted to go deeper than this, he felt the Space Jockey Race was the way to go, and also there were other Important Aspects of the Franchise that had not been covered in Depth, such as A.I and the Company History and Agenda....

Sadly Prometheus became something that was a bit too FAR Disconnected to what a Majority of People would have seen that a ALIEN Franchise was about, and while the Prequels was attempted to tackle the Space Jockey and Steer Away from the Xenomorph and ALIEN... a lot of Fans would have felt the Franchise had to be about the BEAST....

That then lead us to the PICKLE that was Alien Covenant... that seemed to KILL of the Aspect of Exploring our Engineers Deeper and the Proxy to get those Answers (Dr Shaw), it decided to give us a Xenomorph Origins by a MAD Robot and Force the Origins to appear to be something that was NEVER there say 25 Years prior to the Events of ALIEN.

While some Fans may have liked the Prequels and some of those are NOT a Fan of the Cook the Beast Popcorn Formula, i think even those Fans would agree that Alien Covenant was a Mistake!

They have Dangled the Creation Carrot of the Xenomorph to the Fans, a Carrot that the Fans are not keen on, and so a Continuation of this route would DISPLEASE most Fans... a Sequel that would NOT be about the Xenomorph but would be about A.I and what ever Creative Shenanigans that David gets up to would NOT interest as many Fans.

A Majority of Fans would hope the Sequel would NOT be solely about David or even bypass him, and that the Sequel would introduce us to the Xenomorph and SHOW that it is NOT something that had existed for THOUSANDS of years and NOT a Creation by David....

Then some Fans would have wanted to see our ENGINEERS but i am not sure Most would want to see a DEEP History about them, or see Scenes like those Engineers in Alien Covenant, they would likely be wanting to see the Prometheus Engineers back who will just KICK ASS and not take NAMES!

Some Fans would want a Revelation that those Engineers are working for something more ALIEN and some Fans would plain ans Simple just WISH the Engineers never existed.

What i am saying is the Franchise Past ALIEN had evolved really into a Parasitic Organism that would become a Invasive Species, and that this would be something that other Species (Space Jockey, Humans) could use to their Advantage as a Biological Weapon..... but Ultimately at their Hubris.

So i feel most of the People who know what the ALIEN is would associate it with ALIENS and the Comics, Games and so the Route that RS was taking to Explore the Space Jockey is something that they would NOT really be 100% into or care about in Comparison to the Xenomorph itself.

I think its proved that this should have been kept a MYSTERY.

So i would say a Higher % of Fans would preferred something thats more like Novels, Comics and Games over exploring the Race Behind the Space Jockey, regardless of how ALIEN they made it.... the Majority of Fans would want to have the Xenomorph playing a Larger Role.

And so i think that SADLY that YES the Engineers Plot Idea is DEAD IN THE WATER..

Disney would know what most people and especially Fans would associate the Franchise with, and they would also want to Re-Introduce the Franchise to a Newer Generation where they can EXPAND that Franchise.... which we see done in Novels, Games and Comics...

I feel Disney would want to Expand it to TV and maybe Movies but they would cater for the Newer Generation who would prefer such more Action Popcorn Horror, than anything that is Deep Thinking or Thought Provoking and  also such a Move would please the Die-Hard Aliens Fans....

Disney have to think about the  MAJORITY as this is what makes MONEY and this is what Disney are in it for.

I plan to have it not set in the Alien universe. However I like your idea. Thanks. I do like the idea of a hybrid creature. Perhaps a crew member is bitten by a creature and begins to mutate.

Sounds great!

This could be a plot for issue #1:

Weyland yutani mining ship. Crew of 8 (9 including a synthetic) operate drones to mine asteroids.

They find a derelict juggernaut among an asteroid belt(around a gas giant). They send drones inside to explore…...they find canisters(Prometheus style urns filled with black goo ) they return one to the quarantine airlock aboard the ship. The crew debates what to do. While they are arguing the onboard synth camly violates quarantine and enters the airlock….it drinks the contents of the vial(most secure location it can think off). The synth starts killing the crew. The lone survivor escapes in a life boat/pod. The synth sends drones to kamikaze the boat. The life pod is destroyed and the synth thinking it’s occupant dead(or soon will be), leaves the system at warp drive.

The survivor has escaped the life pod before it was destroyed...he/she makes its way to the alien derelict...

If I was a gambling man, which I'm not because it's a fool's game, my money would be that Neill Blomkamp's Alien Awakening is likely back in contention.

Of late, there have been certain movies trending that have been revisionist sequels such as Halloween and Terminator: Dark Fate.

Then there is also the fact that Disney have lately been contracting other production companies to make them money, such as Pixar, Marvel Studios and Lucasfilm.

But most interestingly is the timing. Neill released his concept art and got the fans excited about his project, similar to what Tim Miller did with the Deadpool test footage way back when. As a result, Fox seriously considered the prospect, with Ridley Scott even saying he would produce the movie after the release of Alien: Covenant. But then Scott and Fox cock-blocked Blomkamp's movie, with Scott throwing shade saying there was no script (despite both Sigourney Weaver and James Cameron claiming otherwise) before taking the name of Blomkamp's movie as his own for the, in dead water sequel to Alien: Covenant...

But this was all before Disney grabbed Fox. Though many of us would argue that the ship has sailed there is no denying that Ripley is an icon and an icon that aligns with ceratin 'trending' agendas. Then there is the popularity of James Camerons Aliens. And then finally is the fact that now that Disney own Fox that Neill is no longer attached to RoboCop Returns, but has not announced as to why.

do you also think they would instead Continue with a ALIEN Franchise Movie Series that is set after the events of ALIEN

It's tough to see Disney deal with Scott's prequels. I can see three possibilities.

1. Continue after Resurrection. Give a brief rundown of the Quadrilogy and then continue on Earth with Call finding a WY lab somewhere. Ripley 8 would rapidly mutate and die, so no more Ripley. Call would start digging around WY and things would unfold from there.

2. Give a brief rundown of Alien and Aliens and basically continue with Alien 5 or Isolation.

3. Give a brief rundown of Alien-Alien 3 and continue with the prisoner (forgot the name) who was dragged away by the goons near the end of A3.

This might get more visibility on the Alien Covenant Forum.

This is an interesting idea but I have no ideas at this time. There are some heavy hitters on the AC forums though!

EDIT- Oops! I see it is on the AC Forum.

Have fun with that, and I wish you the best of luck! 

I remember I made a fan comic about Godzilla.

MonsterZero you raise some Good Points...

A Movie does work with Good Characters, and often any Sequel works best if at least ONE of the Characters Return.

With Prometheus some did have some Problems with Noomi Rapace and her Dr Shaw Character, but some Felt that she should have played a ROLL in the Sequel.

Instead of looking at WHAT was so wrong with the Character and attempt to FIX it in a Sequel.....

They now face the same Problem with Katherine Waterston's Character  Daniels she just never had the Impact and so if they Drop Her... then how can they keep introducing New Characters and get them to work.

They (Disney) will face the same Problem with any ALIEN Movie they make, they would have to introduce New Characters that work well, and then it would be expected a additional Movie would connect and Cary Over at least ONE of the New Characters.

With Disney they may also think its best to PLAY IT SAFE and introduce a Character the Fanbase has knowledge of, be that Amanda Ripley, or some Character Related to one of those from the first TWO Movies.... or even BRING BACK our Ripley and basically a SOFT Re-boot where only ALIEN and ALIENS are Canon..

Much like Blomkamps Alien 5, and so i do feel/fear that this is a more likely Root they would take....... and therefor we would get similar to what happened with James Camerons's Latest Offering Terminator: Dark Fate

Basically go back to Characters we are Familiar from the First Two Movies.