New Replies (Page 268)
"The reality is it was Elizabeths faith kept her going, it was her driver."
Absolutely and you could interpret that David viewed how her Faith was something that kept her going on, in-spite of all the Revelations. Something that has crafted her Strong Will, and also guided her Kindness. Certainly Aspects that it appeared David admired.
Left something interesting as far as David goes, he could have looked at Dr Shaws Resolve through her Faith, and gone on some kind of Spiritual Journey/Soul Searching for himself. You could even ponder IF and WHEN she got her Answers and they Shattered her FAITH! What would this do to her? Break Her! then what does she become?
Which is where a David could comfort her, and show her he has learned from her Faith, that it gave her Strength and Resolve, and Kindness and a Good Soul and in-spite of Discovering say there is NO Soul, there is NO God of her Faith, she is broken.... David could relayed to her that while her Faith made her who she is... that Discovering her Faith is a Sham of sorts... should not change the SOUL she has. So he could have dragged her from the Brink of the Abyss into Darkness (Dark Soul).
I discussed on here years ago such a thing... and that Dr Shaw had NOTHING... but her Faith and her Desire to get her Answers, then when her Faith is Broken because of these Answers... when they arrive at Paradise.. What does she have then?
David for Companionship...? This is where i discussed this next part a number of times.... Dr Shaw could not CREATE!
If she could have had Children or had them, would she had wanted David to take her HOME? So as i discussed on here years ago before AC, when Dr Shaw's Discovery on Paradise Shatters her Faith! Maybe After She or David then Washes Away those Evil SOB's that inhabit Paradise.
What if David could offer her a chance to CREATE Life... to start a New Eden from the Ashes of the Fallen Eden?
This could have been interesting.....
And indeed years after i discussed such things, we do have David in Alien Covenant (or the Advent) mention that he offered Dr Shaw the chance to Create a New Eden but she Rejected it!
I am drawn to maybe this is what Guides RS with what he intended next, in what kind of World David would create... which is not going to just be some Xenomorph Factory!
The Application of the Creation Tool, does open the possibility for Genetic Manipulation.... which is why i think those Embryos (Human) would be playing a Key Role if Ridley Scott could have finished his sequel.
We could also consider Resurrection of Dr Shaw... if David has some DNA, he could Clone Dr Shaw... maybe he could upload some of her Memories to this New Being, in a effort to Resurrect her...
Matt Hatton and Dane Hallet, had pondered/teased that David could have Cloned her over and over to perform all those Experiments, that was depicted in those drawings... they also said or he could have Resurrected her over and over... but then they said or this could have all just been the Twisted Thoughts and Dreams of the Demented Android.
So using her DNA/Genome to Map/Change those of some of the Human Embryos is something they could have explored in Alien Covenants sequel..
Its entirely possible that David could have IF she was willing, he could have granted her the gift of Child Birth. When the Leaked Set Photos of his Lab came out before AC hit the Box Office, i was drawn to the tiny Humanoid Skulls and discussed/made note on here that these are HUMAN baby Skulls.... which got me thinking maybe indeed David had allowed Dr Shaw to bare Children...
At this Period in time we had no Trailers/Scenes that showed Engineers, and so at this time, we never knew they had Females.... The release of AC showed they had Female Engineers and this was likely (latter confirmed) where those Baby Skulls came from....
So this means there would be Engineer DNA or even Sperm... that David could have obtained and Engineered with the Black Goo to allow Dr Shaw to give birth.
Thats why i am pretty sure in the Sequel to AC, Ridley Scott was intending to have David Create a Paradise/Eden that he wanted to do with Dr Shaw... and by that he would be looking to Engineer a Superior Humanoid than Mankind.
The WHY we was created, is a Question i dont think we will get answers for now... This was a Question that has many options as far as how to tackle it..... You have the Creation by a Divine Being as a Favored Beloved Creation. Much like you would for the Birth of your Children.... On the Flip-side you have it as David pointed out to Holloway when he Mocked David and claimed he was created because WE COULD.... and so David throws back the Question of WHAT IF he found out OUR Creator, did the same with us. Because they Could!
Whats interesting is all that GREY area between both those Answers..
There are various reasons for Creation, if we cover Science, Mythos, Religion, and the Chariots of the Gods type Theory. I was always drawn to maybe the Answer could be more closely linked to WHY was David Created. Which has Multiple Reasons for WHY but certainly is not as Basic as because we COULD.
Once you have figured out the WHY you would Create, it makes the WHY you would destroy part more easy.
Ridley Scott had thought about the Space Jesus but he felt it was too much on the nose, (i am not sure he was ever going to introduce a Literal Jesus). But he said you need to look at HOW we (Mankind) was behaving back at the time of the Roman Empire, certainly how Mankind behaved, viewed our Gods/Creators and the things we was doing are NOT how our Creators would have intended.
Ridley Scott in 2017 had gave another Reason for WHY the Engineers would create Bio-Weapons and he claimed it was to PROTECT themselves.
I think it makes a bit more sense when we look at DAVID.. when you see what he has become, imagine Thousands of Davids.... Androids who have Rebelled against their Purpose (they are not happy to make us Cups of Tea no more). The THREAT of Thousands of Androids with the same outlook on Mankind, and interest in their own Ambition/Life as David would be a Great Threat, more so if they could start to Create too... be that increase their numbers.
You would see these Androids Created to Serve, and Not Question us (like Walter) that are not Behaving as Intended, they are out of Control..... and its THEN when we would look back in Hindsight and think... we should NEVER had created them... or granted them so much Knowledge/Free-will and then you would be left with NO option but to Destroy your Creation.
I ponder if this Scenario is at play on Multiple Layers... and so as i described with David, is whats going on between Engineers and Humans, and indeed Engineers and their Creators or other Sub-Creations..
The same thing as discussed with WHY we was created, is also applicable with PARADISE... people think of Paradise, they may think its place that our SOULS go to... Heaven if you would.... But maybe it would have been revealed as just a Rock these Engineers came from and thats that... so NOT a Paradise as in how many Mythos/Religion have it..
But again there is not just ONE explanation for what Paradise is, and again i Ponder that they would have been exploring the various reasons for Paradise and trying to come up with some Amalgamation of various meanings of Paradise. Before Alien Covenant i had looked at it from the Biblical Context mainly... but not as in a Heaven... but the Origin of Creation (Garden of Eden) and when i look at Planet 4, to me this fits very much with that interpretation. Where we can then throw in a few other meanings but not too Literal...
Sorry for the big post....
I think it does show that there was so much that Prometheus allowed to expand on, and these things, plus the David AI arc are barely scratching the Surface of what Prometheus Foundations had laid down.
Earth the only place these beings Created Life? Planet 4, and LV-223 (Zeta 2 System) the only place our Engineers have ventured? So the scope for Many Many Worlds, Many Many races was their to EXPAND on the Franchise...
But FOX felt all of this was a distraction and Fans wanted Xenomorphs.... which again... the Scope is that as a Consequence or Intended Result from the Creation Tool and Experiments.... then LV-223 could Spawn many more Horrors than just Xenomorphs.
Certainly Michelle...
Prometheus did set-up something different to expand upon, and like i have said quite a lot on here over the years, a Prequel that is just to show the Egg Cargo Origins and Space Jockey Event is something that ONCE you have shown this, its WHAT NEXT?
This is where the whole Creation Plot comes in, and so certainly they was having Problems on WHERE to take the Story Next, Between 2012-2015 and you can see what problems this caused because the OPTIONS for how you should/could cover what happens next, while considering what then happens in a Prometheus 3, is something thats very hard to come to a SOLUTION.
With such a Bold Plot, and Massive Scope and Questions, its a bit of a Poisoned Chalice, something i struggled to come up with when thinking HOW do i tackle the same subject, i had many ideas for this and that, but could not concentrate on just a set that would not conflict other ideas i had.
Certainly is more easier to write a PLOT like Alien Covenant, the problem again with a sequel to that is RS has made comments that open up a Interesting Plot, that once again is going to be difficult to pull off....
Were as a David Creates Eggs from Human Embryos, and uses Colonists as HOSTS and then waits for the Engineers and Weyland-Yutani to turn up... This more ALIENY Plot is more easier to cover....
Thats the Problem when you try and come up with a real THOUGHT PROVOKING Movie like Ridley Scott had intended.
I have read your thread starter and your remarks about your parents which tie in with Lone's excellent remarks about marketing. This post is a direct response to you.
I represent your parents generation, we were not a new audience we are the original fans of A L I E N, and we look back on it fondly as a rather superior slasher movie.
I have spoken to people in the UK, Australasia, Canada and on the internet about their reaction to Prometheus and it chimes with your parents views.
As regards the follow up as Damon said, Elizabeth a person of faith, was the proxy for the audiences questions at the end of the film.
My generation loved Elizabeth and her journey through the film and Noomi captured the wide eyed naive wonder through to the knowing warrior perfectly.
What 'we' expected from the follow up was the realisation of an Intelligent Universe hinted at by the magnificent opening scene.
Damon and Ridley discussed at length their vision for the Engineers Home world. It connected to our myths of Paradise but not in a traditional religious sense. Unsurprisingly no one I have spoken to, religious or not, believed we were going to meet a kind benevolent God as expressed by the Abrahamic faiths and certainly not the Son of God. As CLM said faith and science went in search of mankind origins and none of them were correct it was a train wreck.
What is clear from Noomi and Damon is there was never a story merely a destination.
Damon in 2017 remarked as follows.
"he (Ridley) was interested in this idea of creation and that there were three generations of creation. You have man and his creation, which are the synthetic beings, the androids, the robots, replicants, whatever you wanna call them depending on which Ridley movie you’re in. And then what’s the next level of that, which is who created man? So that search for God as it were to go and ask, ‘Why did you make me and to what end?’"
So Elizabeths question was still alive for the second film "Why did you make us and why did you want to destroy us."
Religion
I would like to focus on religion because my sense is that most people here think faith equals stupid and their personal antipathy to organised religion affects their ability to look at things objectively regarding spiritual matters. The reality is it was Elizabeths faith kept her going, it was her driver.
During the filming of Prometheus there were three important faith based signposts under consideration.
1) The donation would be promised a return of the soul.
2) Pietro Scalia indicate that at one stage the Moon was supposed to reflect Paradise Lost.
3) The alternative ending dialogue had the Engineer referring to a place David called Paradise.
You know the implications of the catastrophe occurring 2,000 years ago.
You I am sure are aware of the constant riffing of Christian symbolism through out the film brilliantly described by the blogger Cavalorn.
To my generation, and possibly your parents, and I repeat the original audience of A L I E N, this was of profound interest because it was a way of recalibrating a religious narrative within an Engineered creation.
However this kind of profoundly interesting line of thinking whilst you can see it expressed in "Seven Worlds" would not sit with the Xenomorph fanboys and their toys and games.
Oddly the non consensual rape and impregnation of a man in the first movie fits beautifully with the notion of an Intelligent Creation gone wrong and that of course is where the story comes from. Engineering is a procedure its unsentimental and requires the rules of mechanical creation to be adhered to. Thats true in the real world and this imagined one. If you do not stick to the rules things happen and they can be very ugly.
If you then place David the mechanical sub created construct and Elizabeth the biological sub created construct in the "Seven Worlds" environment you can then tell a story.
I do not like repetition where people make the same point over and over again or "thinking aloud" but I will permit myself one repetition which I trust you will bear with, you need a story and then you need characters and then you can tell people about your sub created world. The professionals tasked with finding that story from 2012 to 2015 could not find the story which would answer two simple questions posed by Prometheus and reflect the sub created Engineers Home world.
1) Why did you create and want to destroy us.
2) Why was the catastrophe of the two moons left unattended for 2,000 years.
It sounds and probably is self important to say I have broken my vow to stop posting but I thought your very down to earth mention of your parents reaction a simple and well made point was worth responding to.
The various people I talk to about Prometheus have been to the cinema to see Green Book, Colette and Its a matter of sex. I can find no evidence they are playing games on computers with scenarios of Ripley verse The Creature. I say that to show how disengaged my grouping who wanted Prometheus 2 is from the core fan segment who want dark corridors, dripping water and somebody called Ripley or "Another glorious day in the corps." Am I allowed, without being rude, to say how desperately anchored, how artistically bankrupt such thinking is ?
Well ALIEN 3 never had any clear vision it went through so many changes, that it has some flaws... You could even argue the same with Alien Covenant... it had a lot of changes forced upon it from the Route that Prometheus 2 was having.
Its a case of IF we see Disney allowing Cameron to have FULL control over the Project.... i think however the Popcorn Elements that Cameron would want to add, are what Disney would want anyway.
Cameron and Weaver are close, and so i FEAR it wont just be a case of removing Alien 3 etc from Canon... i think we would get Camerons ALIENS 2, and then a sequel and another sequel and all be about Ripley, Hicks, and Newt... maybe even Bishop... There are some interesting ideas from Blomkamps concepts... but i dont think we need to Resurrect Ripley, Hicks and Newt to make the Franchise Good Again!
"In my mind still David Did NOT create the xenomorph,so I agree with those who might feel that way.
"I learned their ways"-David"
The learned their ways, likely has nothing to do with the Xenomorph, some fans even use the Novel and how it states that David told Oram he found the Egg as it was...
Ridley Scott however confirms that David is the Xenomorphs Origins... and it fits with the Philosophical Themes... Even though its a SLAP to the Face of the Franchise Fans!
I agree a bit about that.... i think ULTIMATELY what they have to do is either!
1) Have Engineers (or their Creators) come along and see Davids Xenomorph, and they take it and EVOLVE it to get to the Classic Xenomorph.
2) Indicate that David's Xenomorph is his Evolution of the Ancient Xenomorph.
The First Video is interesting, nice edit...
The opening scene however was to show how Walter was constructed different to David... i agree in any EDIT the David/Weyland Prologue would have been well fitted to Prometheus... The Walter Construction would have fitted well to being inserted into Alien Covenant.
The second Video has been taken down..
But this usually happens if you are Editing their (FOX) Intellectual Property. There is a lot of extra scenes and Virals from both Movies to make some EDITS..
I have only ever seen ONE of the Prometheus ones... the Gift Bearer Edit i think it was.
Ive noticed a lot with ALIENS fans and other SITES! that the Majority are wishful that David does-not create the Xenomorphs, and the Engineers Rock up with a Cargo of Eggs and we have the Queenexplained for how they came to be!
In my mind still David Did NOT create the xenomorph,so I agree with those who might feel that way.
"I learned their ways"-David
I guess we'll see if and where Cameron takes Alien if he gets his wish. For a fact he'll ignore Alien 3 which he's referred to as a slap to the fans faces comparing to The Temple of Doom and referring to the script as stupid.Sad part is Cameron doesn't realize how popular Alien 3 has become,but if he did I doubt he'd care.Much like Thoughts_Dreams said he just has to have his way.
Acurate portrayal included TYPHON, slaughtering them, well before his mother met her husband and had their son.
Behind the Scenes Hennessy The Seven Worlds
Above is a longer behind the Scenes look at the Project.
What this whole Advert shows is that RS still has a lot of Creative Vision as far as Creating Wonderful Scenes. And its a MASSIVE shame that with Prometheus, Fans expected it to be too much connected to ALIEN even though that Franchise was limited to Scary Alien Monsters hiding in the Shadows of Ships/Space Stations or on Confined Outposts.
The Prometheus Plot of the Engineers and Creation, opened up the potential to explore MANY worlds that each may have a different look to them... and allow for some Spectacular Visuals. We could have had these explored to in a return to Planet 4, or Origae-6.
A lot of Critics of RS Prequels.. expect us to have been taken to LV-426 again instead... where we see Humans being chased around a Dark Baron World by the Xenomorph!
Sorry for going OFF-TOPIC... i will add looking at the work RS has made here with this Advert, i am really interested in WHAT KIND of a World his TV Series Raised by Wolves will be set on. And with a lot of Freedom i think we could be in for some Visually Wonderful Scenes.
I think in context to Prometheus, and Alien Engineers is ONCE you take away the Xenomorph and Related.... what we are left with is the Mythical, Religious, Theology, Philosophical Elements that are all left very open and interpreted in a number of different ways.
Some may read too much into it Literally as far as Religion and the Soul and After-life... but by Virtue of RS mentioning these things, you cant blame people for thinking about those kinds of avenues. I feel it was going to be FAR from Dr Shaw meets the Creator of the Engineers who is a Benevolent Spiritual Being and Dr Shaw is reunited with her Mother/Father and meets Space Jesus ;)
I think this takes the Franchise too FAR from ALIEN, and i am sure its not a path many fans would wanted.
I feel those Themes are only there to be considered LOOSELY and only from a Philosophical Element were it seemed RS was more interested in the concept of Creation, Sub-Creation, Knowledge and Miss-use of this and Hubris and Rebellion... Were we are to discover there is NOTHING Divine or Special about our Creation or Creators. And things such as Immortality, the Soul and After-Life would be shown more in context of DAVID.
But again i think these are Elements that some Fans are not interested in and would be taking the Franchise a bit away from ALIEN... by Virtue/Curse of making it a ALIEN Prequel, they have limited it and written themselves into a Corner now.
Fans are mainly going to be looking forwards to the Prequels in Context to ARRIVING at that Point the Derelict is LOADED with that Deadly Cargo! And the Moments that lead up to this EVENT
They would be looking forwards to seeing Humans Pitted Helplessly against and caught in the Middle of a BATTLE between the Engineers and David and his Xenomorphs.. i think Fans would care little about what else David would want to go and Create!
Ive noticed a lot with ALIENS fans and other SITES! that the Majority are wishful that David does-not create the Xenomorphs, and the Engineers Rock up with a Cargo of Eggs and we have the Queen explained for how they came to be!
So the Prometheus Elements discussed at the START of this Post i feel are Greatly going to be Ignored, the 2nd set in context to David i feel would have been explored... which i think a lot of fans are not happy with... and so i cant see them being explored either.
So PROMETHEUS is Dead.... its now LONG LIVE Camerons ALIENS and what ever he intends to do with the Franchise. And looking at his comments regarding the NONE Cameron Terminators... i would not be suprised if he will IGNORE Alien 3 on-wards and even REBOOT the Prequels.
I agree the Destruction of the Engineers was harsh, but we dont have any LIVING Egyptian Pharaohs but we can understand about them from whats left behind... But it is a shame we never got much of this from the Engineers and it would have been interesting to see more about them.
The Problem comes from the SET UP..
We Discover these beings played a role in our Creation, then they intended to Destroy us... we have to ASK... would they be Welcome Open Arms when David and Shaw turned up?
This would depend on IF the World they arrived at those beings had the same outlook as those on LV-223 in regards to wanted us DEAD.. If they dont want us dead, had no knowledge of our Creation or intended Destruction or did, but become very interested in seeing Dr Shaw and David... it then leaves a PLOT HOLE as to WHY they never came back within the ALIEN Franchise..
A way around this would be they had no knowledge or abandoned us BUT their Home-world is on the other side of the Galaxy and maybe David and Dr Shaw take Hundreds of years to arrive... The Problem with this is HOW do you introduce Human Characters... as a movie cant HANG on David and Dr Shaw, and some Engineers, even if they discover a way that allows Dr Shaw to understand them.
Paradise being a place that is SOOOOO FAR away that the Human Ships in the Franchise simply cant reach that far, would then limit HOW we get more Humans.. unless Fans could put up with Engineers, a Robot and Dr Shaw (who many was annoyed with).
By Virtue of going a Direct Prequel by having the Events of Alien Covenant predates the Event of ALIEN and by Virtue of the Xenomorph Orgins being explained as Chronologically after Prometheus. Means the introduction of Humans incoming to Paradise (Covenant Ship) means they would have to make Paradise more closer to Earth.
Which would mean a lot depends on HOW those Engineers React to David and Dr Shaw and Mankind and knowing we can go around the Stars and use their Technology... would they be sitting back waiting for more Humans to Arrive and invite them for a Cup of Tea?
By Virtue of the events having to lead up to Alien, and introducing more Humans from Earth to the Engineers Home-world, really meant Paradise had to be closer, and to deal with any potential Problems as to HOW the Engineers would have Reacted.... it was maybe Necessary to have them KILLED OFF.
Which really limits us to what we can do with the Engineers now... but this is a consequence of having to MAKE the Prequels now literally connect to ALIEN and bring back the Xenomorph.
A think to consider... is it appeared the Engineers were always going to be KILLED by David or Dr Shaw. But we certainly would have discovered more about them with a Prometheus 2.
Ridley Scott confirmed they was off to the Planet of the Engineers to meet these BEINGS who are NOT Gods, (not in the traditional sense). They are FAR from Benevolent, but David is BRINGING Hell with him... WHAT happens when the Bio-Weapon (Black Goo) infects a God or a Machine?
So ULTIMATELY it seemed that those Engineers were always going to be WIPED out... even as far as the Plans from 2012.
The Alternative Fifield was better, there was some even better Props worked on and Concepts... that would have made a more clearer connection with the Xenomorph DNA.. again the drafts even showed us that Fifield had ACID BLOOD which would have been another Clue to the Xenomorph Connection. Ultimately Ridely Scott was happy with Sean Harris Performance in that Scene... also i think the CGI Fifield was not as Polished as would have hoped for.
“If you are someone who saw ALIEN a lot and looked at interviews with RS years prior to Prequels and Concept Work for ALIEN etc... then seeing Prometheus you got more of a connection."
What i meant by this was that Prometheus toned down quite a lot, in terms of DNA of the Xenomorph and ALIEN movie itself. The clues to the Xenomorph were subtle, the MURAL being something that stood out... but it was again brief and gave no explanation. How you connect to what was shown, and being connected to ALIEN depends on HOW MUCH you are aware this was in the Alien Universe and how much you are aware of the ALIEN movie.
If you asked someone these Questions.
Do you know what a Face Hugger is? a Xenomorph?
Do you know what Weyland-Yutani is?
Do you know what the Derelict/Space Jockey are?
How much someone knows about these, for example those who saw the Juggernaught and could connect it to Alien would see a connection, those who had to have it pointed out would not as much and those who would not even be able to picture what a Derelict was, would have NO CLUE.
So it depends how much you know about the Franchise and Understand.... someone who only seen ALIEN 1-2 times, and ALIENS 1-2 times and went into watching Prometheus with NO knowledge it was a Alien Franchise movie... they would not have much of a idea that its even in the same Franchise.
Those who are aware of the Connection or even just more aware of the Franchise, would see some Connections... the Juggernaught/Engineer Suits and Derelict/Space Jockey, the Mural, the Deacon Chest Buster.... and the Weyland Company... But for many of these fans the Clues never really EXPLAIN the connection deep enough..
Even without investing into the Extras and Interviews and Concepts and Drafts..... if someone who was a ALIEN fan watched Prometheus, then watched Alien again and then Watched Prometheus again... it would become more apparent.
"Petting a space snake, thinking that they would get there before the storm would get them. Shaw holding on to the head instead of thinking about her own life. Holloway taking his helmet off in the what ever the place was. There are other things as well."
These were kind of silly, if you look at it being a rational prepared Scientist...
The Space Cobra petting, we had Milburn who may have been like a Space Steve Irwin, but when your on a Alien World you would be more Cautious of a Life-Form that NO-ONE has ever encountered.
Its a case that the Drafts have better explanations, such as the Suits are described as being Very Resilient which would have given Milburn bit more of a security blanket if this was explained more on Film... but even still it was not the most sane decision he made, in the Draft it was Fifield who was STONED and he handled the Hammerpede and kind of threw it towards Milburn.
Holloway was a reckless Character a Risk Taker, he always had a hunch the Star Maps lead to some Ancient Race who visited us and so finding the Temple and then detecting the Air was Breathable gave him insight that this place was Habitable like the being inside the Prometheus ship... so he chose to put it to the TEST... Also this was before they realized any outbreak or dead Engineers... but even so you cant account for any Bacteria etc in the Environment and you had to be Questioning WHY these Gods gave us this location and NEVER returned... No One was HOME!
Dr Shaw and the Head was not as bad... the Discovery of this PLACE was the Greatest Discovery of Mankind, we Finally Found other Intelligent Life in the Galaxy, a Race who are connected to our History, but they was ALL GONE... but the Head was well Preserved... this was seen as a VITAL piece of evidence for Dr Shaw to be able to gain some insight into who these would be GODS are.
So in the Heat/Panic of the Moment, she realized the Head was of GREAT Importance to the Discovery of potentially our Ancestors or Creators... a Discovery FAR Greater than her own LIFE.... she was also of Faith and would have comfort that in DEATH there is Resurrection for her.
A lot of it comes down to being able to explain things more in a Book/Draft and things have to be CUT when making a Movie, the same is true with Alien Covenant and how they wandered onto that Planet with NO Helmets... In the Novel it had Walter go outside and Test the Atmosphere etc and determined it was breathable and NO signs of Pathogens etc.
IF the Drop Ship had some kind of Mask/Backpack Apparatus bit like a DIVERS mask and Oxygen Bottle if we saw these and Oram saying to Walter go outside to test the Atmosphere... then he says its Clear No Need for any Breathing Equipment... then that scene would make better sense. Or if they sent down a Probe First.. (but that would raise the problem of why not probe the whole area within so far and how would they miss the Dead Engineer City).
But to have either would have added to more Screen Time and so some things that would make scenes/action seem less dumb, just get left out for pacing.
"Rumors are what they are so we’ll see how it will turn out in the end."
I would consider it more than a Rumor, i think its has a high posibility to be true based on 20th Century FOX announcment they have Projects within the ALIEN Universe they are working on, then the announcment of a series of Project revolving around Amanda Ripley.
new-alien-teaser-suggests-universe-expansion
Daughter. Rebel. Hero. Her story deserves to be told...
— Alien (@AlienAnthology) January 5, 2019
#Whois #AmandaRipley #ReadPlayWatch #Daughter #Rebel #Hero pic.twitter.com/NMwdK60oGU
We had the Alien Blackout Game, (Play) we have had teaser for the Dark Horse Comic Alien: Resistance (Read).
So its likely the WATCH is something we have to view, and so a TV Short, Series seems likely... and Financially it makes more sense to have it done in CGI for Financial Reasons but also as it keeps Amanda's Story kind of Separate by the uniqueness of using this medium.
If this Short Video Series can match the CGI Quality of this image bellow but in real time CGI then i think it stands a Good chance to be interesting.
I always appreciate your input Thoughts_Dreams,Thank you.I do agree the lack of xenomorph isn't a problem for me, same kinda with Covenant I prefer the neomorph over the xenomorph as well.And I'll never understand the fifield swap either.
I enjoy Alien all the way to Covenant and will agree Prometheus and Covenant have the weakests characters in the franchise...
Whilst my interest in more discussion is entirely played out there is always the possibility of some useful intel arriving here so I am pleased I looked in.
I found this sequence utterly compelling and very moving for which grateful thanks for the "ERKO". if you make a linear interpretation of the sequence it is entirely clear the subliminal message that Ridley is offering. One can wonder whether you are projecting on to the material but this plays out discovery, ritual symbiosis, sub creation, destruction (and survival), spiritual questing, rebirth and revelation.
Given Ridley is a visual artist to dismiss the shape of the Pyramid, Identical to one I visited four months ago, the female explorer, the liquid, the bowl, the symbiotic procession, the sub creative image followed by destruction and survival by a male and a female with the characteristic breathing suits and then finally the shape of Calpomos, the framing under the rock, identical to the Prometheus shot and the face on the rock with the man of the spirit finding the truth in the next few frames seems to be obstinate denial when the truth is staring one in the face.
I am profoundly moved not least because the outcome is so joyous and the greatest of many curved balls the latter which we are free to offer when we dare to dream. Ridley is right to quote a derivation of Fred Barnard but it is also true that less is more both visually, verbally and on the page, and how fitting this is intended to draw attention to X O Hennessy and not X..O.
I don’t know, try one and see how people respond to that, that is what I would do if I was working at a company like that. This could be a rumor so I take it with a pinch of salt.
This is my interpretation
Honey, goo what everything is made of.
Giant, the Engineers that made humans that walk under it
Cloaked persons, could be the Engineers and the bigger ones are those above them
Spicy edge starts with what could be a space ship.
Chocolate full, could be when the first human started to walk on earth, tastes something, means that he is about to start to learn things. The first step into knowledge. I could be totally wrong, but this is what it looks like.
Wood crunches: Nature, a higher state of the planet is created.
Infinite echo: The things that looks like a giant reminds me of the Engineers, so maybe that is a way to say that the Engineers were behind our existence.
NinXeno426, it is an interesting topic.
Prometheus was alright (I give it 2 out of 5), there are things that I like about it and there are also things that are lame. The biggest issue is the same as with Covenant, mostly lame characters although they are less annoying in Covenant. It did not help that they could not decide if it was an alien prequel or not, that was stupid.
Alien Engineers had less dumb things than what we got in the end but then the draft to Prometheus whole still having more things connected to Alien was better than the final movie. Both Lindelof’s version and Spaight’s version are better than what ended up in the movie. Once again Fox F’ed it up just like they did with Alien 3. I love Alien 3 but it would probably have been better if Fox wouldn’t have interfered.
The Engineers are one of the things that Prometheus got right
“So I ask this,do you think Prometheus would have been better off as an original science fiction film?”
Maybe, the story in itself is not bad but they messed up the characters mostly, that is my biggest problem with it. Supposedly smart people (scientists) doing stupid things. Some things:
Petting a space snake, thinking that they would get there before the storm would get them. Shaw holding on to the head instead of thinking about her own life. Holloway taking his helmet off in the what ever the place was. There are other things as well.
“Prometheus asked big questions,questions that don't seem relevant to the xenomorph.”
I would have liked it to be closer to the Xenos, the Engineers were interesting but the human characters were the biggest problem. The evil company should also have had more involvement if you ask me. One things that I want to make clear is that the lack of Xenos is hardly the issue that I have with the movie, the new monsters were interesting. Only Janek and David were well done, the rest were not, they should have had someone that could write human characters, it was the same with AC.
One things that I am disappointed with in Prometheus still is that they rejected the Xeno Fifield in favor of the effing Zombie, sigh but we have what we have.
Unlike you NinXeno426 I am not a huge fan of either of them, they both have their good and bad things but thanks for the post.
Ingeniero: Yeah the landscapes are great in Prometheus and I also like how they introduced the Engineers although they were a bit vague. Unfortunately the human characters are mostly not well done. They should have expanded on the Engineers in what became Alien Covenant but now we have what we have which is not good (both Covenant and the situation of the movies).
“I think the whole crux of the matter is that Prometheus, though it does have Alien origins, doesn't need to connect directly with ALIEN.” - Lone
To me that is a problem, make up your mind if it is or is not (I mean those that made the movie). How difficult can that be? I think that they were vague about it, I am not sure if it was Lindelof that was like that about it, but no matter who is to blame, it was not good. As far as the Engineers are concerned I think that it was a mistake to erase them in AC because that could have been really interesting, they responded in the wrong way in AC unfortunately.
“Just some Fans would have needed it SPOON FED.” - BD
Well, you don’t need to do that but it could have been less ambiguous without being obvious so to speak. You mention as much of an alien fan that you need to be to enjoy Prometheus. Prometheus should have been less vague about that even though I understand it kind of well after an X amount of viewings, but it seems to be about bad writing and/or execution.
“If you are someone who saw ALIEN a lot and looked at interviews with RS years prior to Prequels and Concept Work for ALIEN etc... then seeing Prometheus you got more of a connection.”
Yeah but that should not have to be the case though because out of let’s say 100 persons how many do you think will bother to do that, hell even out of 200?
Showing us more about the SJ’s is not bad but they are tied to the Xenos so the connection to the Xenos should have been better.
“The answers to WHY we was created and what is a SOUL etc i feel will be answered in context to what DAVID would do next, so if we look at his ARC... it could be indication that the Engineers had the same Motives with us. (Sub-Creation, Rebellion).” - BD
I don’t really care about another David movie, let it be.
Rumors are what they are so we’ll see how it will turn out in the end. I would like to say that it makes me more excited when I hear about this rather than when they were discussing a David 2 like when Scott said how they would continue the story about David. Sure he said that they will go to the planet bla bla bla but I bet that David would have had a big part in what would have been the end result so what ever. This seems to be more interesting than the Scott ideas.
“Most probably Ridley Scott has nothing to do with it.”
Which might be for the better looking at how the prequels have turned out.
Certainly they had been referred to as Pyramids, but they are not due to the Shape (Pyramid Structures kind of form some kind of Pyramid Shape, even though some are less Pyramid Shape such as the Latin American ones).
We have also seen them (in the Franchise) be considered Temples, but in reality those in Prometheus and Blade Runner are more Scientific Compounds. But those in Prometheus do hold a Ritual Significance and so calling them Temples also works well.
I would assume potentially we could be seeing a similar Standard to the Last Starship Troopers Animated Movies.
Starship Troopers Traitor of Mars Trailer 1
Starship Troopers Traitor of Mars Trailer 2
Starship Troopers Traitor of Mars Trailer 3
I would certainly expect it to be a bit more Polished than the Alien Isolation In-Game Scenes. And would expect the Xenomorph to be at least the same Quality.
If so i think it will please fans... it will allow Disney to then assess the Success and determine if they should continue with some Alien Franchise Games, and more TV Animated Series.
We would all love to see Live Action TV Series and Movies, but with how much they would cost and the Box Office of Alien Covenant, it would make more sense to make them CGI just as the Starship Troopers Franchise started to do.
I think there was so much potential with the Franchise with Prometheus, but if we are only going to get the same Eggs, Face Huggers, Chest Busters, Adult Xenomorphs and Queens... then its a case of HOW many times can you follow the same Tropes?
Its a Gamble if one of these TV Series or Movies becomes a bit Stale and Flops a bit.... but if its CGI it carries less of a Financial Risk.
Well i think it depends on how good the story and CGI is, i speculated with the FOX Announcement of PLAY, READ and WATCH that having seen the Mobile Amanda Ripley Game, and the preview of the Comic Series, i speculated it was LIKELY the watch would be some kind of Short Series and likely CGI.
Financially i guess it makes sense, a CGI in the format like the Starship Troopers Franchise had done, would be cheaper than a Live Action Movie, or even a TV Series.
A Amanda Ripley Space/Space Station based Movie would likely cost $30-40M even if they used less known/cheaper Cast, and had the Xenomorph only used sparingly, to have the Xenomorph shown say twice as much as in Alien Covenant would likely add $5M to the Budget.
A Live Action TV Series would likely cost $2-4M a Episode depending on Cast and Special Effects, that would be with the Monsters being maybe not even on par with Alien Covenants. And there is NO-WAY i feel FOX would splash out on a Higher Quality Series that would knock up about $5-7M a Episode
So a Animated one seems cheaper way to do it for what? Sub $1M for certain per Episode
Agree on that,Extinction is where I called it quits lol.I can't even really watch Apocalypse anymore either lol.
3D or classic 2D?
Degeneration was better than anything after Apocalypse- when the series and games got too action heavy and the movies went all Mad Max and into the crapper. The point is that the animated movie stayed more true to the core of RE. That is why I invite an animated take with Isolation.
I think it was Bloody disgusting that speculated an animated series since apparently there has been confirmation no live action series is in the works.I guess there was a live action series being developed but the Disney fox merger killed it and what ever it was would be used elsewhere.I ought to go find this article.
A little disappointing yes but considering a series isn't really something I wish to see it's not a bad thing either...
Agreed Degeneration wasn't bad but I only watched it once lol.It was OK, sadly I felt that a 90 minute animated film couldn't live up to the series finest stories.Here's to hoping an Isolation series fairs better.
double post
No problems, Georgy. The dome in Prometheus is a bit confusing because while Janek refers to the structure as a dome later in the movie, he also (along with Shaw) calls it a pyramid.
Most interesting, it seems everyone associated with the film, including Ridley, calls the structure a pyramid. Surely Ridley, the great visualist, would know the diff between a pyramid and a dome. Maybe it's a clue.
Some people have spoken of a connection between BR and Prometheus. Not sure myself...
Interesting... We have our own animated series on the way if this pans out to be nothing more than rumor.
BRING.......IT......ON!!!! Hell yeah!!!!
Resident Evil Degeneration was not bad (since we are talking animated movies):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCFYZJcIo7Y
So then we had Prometheus NOT deliver on what was expected, as detailed in prior post..
What Prometheus was concentrating on was the loose Mythos and Religion more so than in Alien Engineers (just slightly more). More so in regards to the Quest for Answers to the Gods, Creation, and Immortality, partially told from the Quest of Peter Weyland who wanted to NOT die.
Where do we come from? Where do we go when we Die?
What constitutes having a SOUL? Do we have one and WHY does David not have one?
What is Paradise? is this place in anyway similar to the Religious Context and After-Life or more the Mythical?
These were the Themes Prometheus was trying to Set-Up that was not so much included as deep in Alien Engineers.
Here lies the PROBLEM... if we was asked 10 years ago, would we want to see a ALIEN prequel, and what it should be about... IF we had Ridley Scott state the Main Focus would be about those Philosophical/Religious connections i Highlighted above. And it would tie in how the Space Jockey and Mankind are connected... but it WOULD-NOT have any Xenomorphs or even explain WHERE the Eggs came from or how they got on the Derelict.
I am pretty sure a Majority of Fans would be like NO THANKS... what the Hell has that got to do with ALIEN and the Xenomorph!
Thankfully maybe for some, i feel these Elements (Why was we created, where do we go when we die) are passed by now, and would not be dealt with.
They seem to be set-up slightly in context to David now, and following the ACTUAL main Plot of Prometheus, which is the Creation Plot, Sub-Creation, the Hubris of this especially of your Creation is either Superior, has Free-Will, gains all knowledge of their Creators and can Procreate.
Again these are themes that i feel a proportion of fans would feel HAS nothing to do with ALIEN. But alas, it was not intended to do so, Prometheus was to NOT be a literal prequel as far as exploring the Xenomorph. And to a degree Alien Engineers was not either.. but it did at least cover the Xenomorph... something IF we had Prometheus do, then it could have CLOSED the Door to Alien and gone on to do its own thing.
I would now LETO..
Like to tackle a few points directly...
"Anybody thinks what direct answer is a bad idea?"
I covered in my posts about this, in that i dont think we needed to see HOW/WHEN those Eggs got on that Ship, or even WHAT happened... What we needed to do is see similar Eggs, and indications that they created Organisms like this and for WHAT purpose and WHEN they did this.
Basically if we had Alien Engineers but took out the Xenomorphs as far as ones that are similar/same, replace them with something a bit different (again slightly different Face Hugger, Egg and Organism) maybe keep Ultramorph as being close to the Xenomorph..
Then Alien Engineers with NO Xenomorphs but similar, would have given the Fans enough clues to determine the reasons for the Eggs.... and i think it would have pleased 50-70% of Fans but you would always have some who would wanted actual Xenomorphs and have the Space Jockey Event played out on Screen and be asking WHERE is the Queen!
"We still don't know: Do engineers really create a humans, or not?"
Its been indicated but again ambiguous to the degree you could ask DID they really create us? What is known for Certain was that THEY are connected, and those Engineers or some similar Race connected to them had visited Earth over and over... Ridley Scott had indicated the Engineers are our Forerunners... but he also implies the Engineers ARE-NOT the Top of the Creation Chain. It is still open for debate... we could even have a Curve-ball that a more Ancient Version of Mankind Created the Engineers or Evolved themselves into Engineers.
"About soul. This is not even a question! Really."
Its not a Question really in context to what should connect to a ALIEN movie.. I think RS was looking at some Curve-ball ideas behind what is a SOUL..
Peter Weyland was not really a believer in such, not with 100% Conviction, hence his Quest for Immortality and his Mocking of David for lacking one... i feel was leading to revelations that INDEED we dont have a Soul... but actually a Synthetic AI has more of a Soul than we have... unless we could Transcend our Memories, Emotions and Personality into a AI then we would gain a REAL after-life and Eternal Soul.
But i feel these were done with Ambiguity.... the THERE is NOTHING comment, likely refers to there is Nothing as far as gaining Weyland more LIFE..
So then Weyland is dying and he will Discover that Answer regarding the SOUL (for which he claimed David does-not have and a Human does). He will soon discover if indeed he has ONE or there is NOTHING..
Which is when David wishes Weyland a Good Journey this in turn is Davids Mockery towards Weyland.
Again all these kinds of things are NOT really what a ALIEN Franchise should be about... its a distraction from it, but i think it should not be about the Xenomorph either.
The Engineers/Space Jockey is where we should have been heading..
But we are not following all the Themes and Philosophy though the Arc/Story of David and what he would create next... just as the Xenomorph Origins are also now though the Arc/Story of David
These Themes and Creation of the Xenomorph should have been explored through the Engineers ARC or their Creators... but ALAS.
I think you bring up a Good Point on how to look at what the Prequels were thought of having to be about, the expectation.
What i mean by that is at conception of a Prequel for example if we was talking about doing a ALIEN Prequel 10 years ago, the Majority of the Fans would assume a Prequel would have to be about things that made ALIEN what it was... which would be about the Xenomorph, and the Mystery that was never touched up on in any ALIEN sequels... which was the Xenomorph Cargo of Eggs, WHERE, WHEN and WHY as far as where they came from, when they got on the Derelict and WHY the Space Jockey had them.
A ALIEN prequel could have looked at other stuff than those Eggs, because what also made ALIEN what it was, was to show we had this Weyland-Yutani Company who appear to have little concerns about the Lives of Mankind as long as they can get their hands on Technology or anything else that would Benefit them. A lot of fans would assume a ALIEN Prequel would still have to connect to the Derelict and so in context to the Company the only thing most Fans would want to know is WHAT did the company know before hand that lead to Special Order 937 and so they would not have accepted a movie that only gave us say the History of the Weyland-Yutani Company, or its advancements in Space Exploration, Terra-forming, Mining for Minerals or Technology including Synthetics.
It would only matter about WHAT role the company played in ALIEN, which was having prior Knowledge of something on LV-426 that it was willing to send a Secret Android with a Space Tug Boat and its Crew to go down and obtain a Specimen.
The other Aspect would certainly be to find out WHO the Space Jockey was which could open up avenues to who he was, where he was from, but for many fans it would be the WHY and WHERE did he get that Cargo from that would matter.
Which once you ANSWER that, and its been pretty much indicated before, but for those who ONLY see the Movies and dont look into Interviews etc, then those Questions had no real answers for them from ALIEN apart from that it was pretty obvious the Space Jockey became victim to his own Cargo... but with Camerons ALIENS, some fans started to speculate if there was NO Eggs on that ship until a Face Hugger infected the Space Jockey with a Queen!
so a Prequel would have been expecting to mainly show HOW and WHERE those Eggs came from and got on that ship... its a case of ONCE you answer that, then where do you go next?
Back to more Ripley and Xenomorphs?
Explore who the Space Jockey Race are?
The latter is something you have to be careful with due to potentially causing In-continuity with the Franchise... for example if you discover Living Space Jockeys who have BAD plans for Mankind... If the Prequel we discover NO living Space Jockeys or just a FEW who are killed off, its then HOW do you explore a Race who is then gone... WHERE do the rest of them come from, HOW far away.
Exploring some ANCIENT Alien Race who are from Thousands if not Tens of Thousands of Light Years away, involved in some Cosmic War with their own kind or ANOTHER species, that may have ENDED many THOUSANDS of years ago.... this kind of Answer would limit the potential to cover these in sequels... because you have to have a HUMAN Character connection.
THIS.... is where they introduced the Chariots of the Gods type Plot (Mankind was Created, or at least Evolved and Taught by Alien Beings who we then interpreted as Gods and formed the basis for Mythos and Religions).
While this allowed a connection to Humans, it was maybe not the best reveal for a proportion of Fans, but i dont think this was a MAJOR problem, its SPLIT some fans, but it would NOT have mattered if the Prequel had Xenomorphs or at least similar and gave GOOD indication about WHY the Space Jockey/Engineers had and used Biological Warfare.. which PROMETHEUS did... but it was Way-Tonned down from anything like Eggs and HOW/WHERE they could have came from... where as ALIEN ENGINEERS, catered for the fans with this.
With Prometheus they felt that actually some Mystery is best kept, and we have seen Eggs, Face Huggers and Chest Busters enough times, and so exploring the Race behind them was considered the Plot from Alien Engineers to expand upon.
I DONT think we need a Spoon Fed what happened to the Space Jockey, its pretty simple, maybe not for fans who cant think about the clues.. but while its a Mystery its still open for it to be the Space Jockey found a Place of Eggs, got infected and Chest Busted a Queen ;)
I think WHAT should have been done, was to give more clues to WHERE and WHEN the Eggs came from however... once you answer that connection with the Space Jockey/Engineers we really dont need to cover WHEN/WHY the Derelict ended up on LV-426.... as long as we had more clues to WHEN/HOW the Engineers had the Eggs, and WHEN maybe the Space Jockey event may have happened. (which does-not have to show us the EVENT at all).
Sorry for the Ramble... this shows what was expected and what was not delivered.
Prometheus formula:
60% MYTHOLOGY (almost all staff and ideas, title name for example)
10% RELIGION (different links, hinting scenes)
5% PHILOSOPHY (well, relations of fathers and sons: engineers and humans, humans and androids. Anything else?)
15% OTHER STUFF
About answers - where? Anybody thinks what direct answer is a bad idea? Need only hints?
We still don't know: Do engineers really create a humans, or not?
About soul. This is not even a question! Really. Prometheus showed us: Peter use this words to belittle David, nothing more. And when Peter dies, he said: There is nothing.
THE END. =)
Javablue, thanks, I've already changed pyramid with a dome word. When I was doing some research before to start this topic I found that for most people it doesn't really matter how precisely to describe those installations.
Xeonomorph in Hadleys Hope)
