Prometheus is dead...long live Prometheus

Prometheus good because placed in Alien Universe.

The Face of Alien Universe is Xenomorph with a unique shape.

The Alien shape created by H.R. Giger.

Giger is an artist for Jodorovsly's Dune.

Jodorovsly's Dune is the greatest trip movie which was not filmed.

Prometheus is a great trip movie.

So... it's perfect in Alien Universe.

I've always said that Prometheus would have been better received had it not been advertised as an Alien prequel, but a stand alone Sci-fi movie.

From the beginning Ridley stated that it was an original story which branched off from ALIEN & took its own path. Fox seriously screwed up its marketing.

The irony is, that the more time passes & because its themes are now being largely ignored, it will be left on its own. The scope of the story was just too expansive for some.

Well, I'll always regard it as the movie which sewed the seeds for what could have been. I think it's brilliant, because Ridley dared to do something completely different, yet connected recognisable elements from a host of Sci-fi, not only ALIEN. Something pretty bloody incredible actually!

Yes nin, I think more & more people are beginning to catch onto what Prometheus started & the golden nuggets it contains.

I made this reply in the other Topic, but it suits this thread more..  funny i made the reply before seeing this Topic as its a very fitted reply for this thread...

==================

Lets hope Raised by Wolves is interesting....

And it allows for some Company to BACK our RS in exploring a Sci-Fi movie that would be a Spiritual Successor to Prometheus ;)

Where he can have FREEDOM to show us some Philosophical Creation Movie thats very Space 2001 and HP Lovecraftian with a serving of Blade Runner that Prometheus was intended to be..

Which suffered due to the Shackles of it being a Story set in the ALIEN Universe and connected to the Space Jockey, when it seemed a Distraction from the Xenomorph which many may feel a ALIEN movie should be about.

I cant help but in HINDSIGHT wonder if RS got his Alien Engineers Rejected/Canceled... in favor of FOX going for a ALIEN 5 rather than getting Lindeloff in to make Prometheus Draft...

Then RS pitching his ideas to another Studio who would run with his ideas... only now he has to not have Xenomorph looking connections, or Space Jockey/Derelict looking Creator Race and Technology

Keep the PLOT... but it has NO Space Jockey/Derelict or Xenomorph Aesthetic or NO Weyland/Yutani Company Names.

Then just LAMENT over the Freedom he would have had, in giving us a Project that does-not get retrained by the idea having to connect to ALIEN.

"Prometheus good because placed in Alien Universe."

I have to agree LETO to a degree..

In Hubris the Problem was that Prometheus did-not give Alien Fans enough answers, or any real Alieny Threat, had they incorporated say 20% of the more ALIENY scenes from Alien Engineers....  and LESS ambiguity.

Then those Alien Fans would have had more to please them and some more clues, and seen some more Alieny Attacks rather than Zombie Fifield and Hammerpede. It needed a bit more... and more Xenomorph DNA

They could then CLOSED the Door to ALIEN and been allowed more FREEDOM with Prometheus 2 that would NOT cover the Xenomorphs.  

By Virtue of the Xenomorph Origins being hinted at more, what connection LV-223 and Space Jockey had.  By Virtue of having some Xenomorph like Monster... even if it was more close to the Neomorph.  Then they would have been Pleased more..

Leaving Prometheus 2 more Freedom about the Engineers, but then this sequel would have to have been a bit more Bio-Mechanical Aesthetic and more Surreal HP Lovecratian and HR Giger

Then we could have had something SPECIAL..

Ridley's original intention was to move each of his sequels farther away from Alien, but that idea reversed with Covenant.

I think the whole crux of the matter is that Prometheus, though it does have Alien origins, doesn't need to connect directly with ALIEN. It can be it's own entity.

That has proved a stumbling block for many people.

Its a shame i LOST my work on a Prometheus Re-write where i was changing some scenes, adding some scenes, that would have been less ambiguous... it still may not have pleased Hard Core Aliens Fans as there was NO Xenomorphs.

But WE did see a more Alieny Fifield, we saw a glimpse at a Mural and Sacrificial Room/Incubation behind the MURAL and a Neomorph like Chest Buster from Milburn, which does-not grow to ADULT... and we also see a Hammerpede Killed which revealed it had Tiny Eggs similar to a Xenomorph.

More closer look at Chest Busted Cryo-Tube Engineers.

And all in all, hints that this Place was One Outpost where they had created a Variant of the Xenomorph and Dialog from David suggesting to Shaw there are many more Ships, at other Outposts.   Where she then says to David but this place is DEATH and he then says the other Outposts likely are separated to STOP Cross-Contamination and he then claims the Engineers had been working on Various Forms of Experiments.  And she would be SAFE provided she does-not contaminate the complex like they did with this ONE.

It should provided enough clues to show that Each Complex had a different Variant of the Bio-Weapon and that contamination with the Black Goo could evolve Organisms to become Hybrids, and that these Hybrids would go on to try and Procreate.

The Careful Reader, would then get a Picture to Ponder if a Outbreak before, and infected Worms had made Hammerpedes that could have Infected those Engineers (in Cryo-sleep) resulting in their Chest Busting something similar to what comes out of Milburn.

Which i envisioned to be a Cross between these Concepts...

Something similar to this i was thinking but with a more Bulbous Head of the Baby Head.   I have edited the Concept to make it more Bulbous and have a Eye, i was thinking something like this but with the Baby Head at the Bottoms Body.

I had this vision for what i wanted when working on my Re-Write in Late 2013, i had discussed and shared similar concept and edited version on here early 2015.

It seems they had decided to use similar take on concepts that was unused to make the Neomorph.

Certainly LONE..

Which is why i think had Prometheus been more a bit of Alien Engineers, like if you took 25% of that and Merged it with Prometheus, or even the kind of Edit i did for Prometheus (which i seemed to misplaced) then it would have pleased the Fans wanting Xenomorphs more.

And Allowed Prometheus 2 to explore what RS wanted and if Prometheus 2 had disappointed because it was LESS Alieny than a more Alieny Prometheus before it... then the 3rd Movie could have got more HR Giger and Alieny.

I got Prometheus i could see the Clues, you had to look back at concepts and Alien Engineers for Clues to make more sense but there was enough in Prometheus by doing this to then make a connection... Just some Fans would have needed it SPOON FED.

Maybe if Prometheus was extended and Dr Shaw discovers the Missing Military Guy, and we have this Scene set when Dr Shaw is just heading to go to the other Temple, and we see the Deacon go after them and KILL the other Merc, but then get Killed by Dr Shaw... maybe this would have helped a little. Plus Alternative Fifield Attack.

But even so some Fans would expect to know HOW the Xenomorph was created as in actually shown in more depth than we got from Davids Experiments... and some may even still ask WHAT happened to the Space Jockey and WHEN.

I think that would have meant making a Prometheus that gave away TOO MUCH!

Huhuhu... guys you make me laugh!

Do you say that Prometheus will better without connection with Alien. Or add more alieny stuff. Or something else.

But you forget one thing. I repeat - ONE THING. Yeah, exactly, I'm talking about Millburn and the same, you know.

And please, tell me - do you really believe what movie will better without Alien stuff, but with stupid characters?

I don't consider them stupid, btw, but we talking about theoretical auditory. What do you think?

I think what people expected a sci-fi film, when "sci" means science. But Millburn absolutely meh about Engineer corpse and go with Fifield. Why? Well, he want meet a friend, not meet an alien life. Yeah, it's answer. It's not a joke! He character perfectly for exploring. He must explore the Engineer's head, and DNA analysis.

Hi Leto!

I'm not saying it would be better without Alien connections, they are there for all to see. I should have expressed myself better, apologies!

For example, we don't have to know who Giger's Space Jockey, or Engineer if you prefer, the one in the derelict, actually is for Prometheus to work. In fact with hindsight I don't think that is even necessary.

I'm in favour of leaving that to personal interpretation. We should have some mystery left & being totally selfish, I want to continue to believe that the SJ's were another race altogether. Although, if things continued on from Covenant we likely would have had an explanation for who the pilot was & why he had the cargo of eggs.

Also, from Prometheus we could assume that each of the Engineer silos contained something different. Maybe some had eggs? Perhaps there were even different species or hybrids in each? Who knows the extent of the LV 223 experiment.

I loved that this was left open.

I think it would have been better as a stand alone movie.

"Also, from Prometheus we could assume that each of the Engineer silos contained something different. Maybe some had eggs? Perhaps there were even different species or hybrids in each? Who knows the extent of the LV 223 experiment."

That's explain why Black Goo from Prometheus beginning works for life creating; from LV-223 as mutagen; from AC as pathogen.

I don't think what Space Jockey should be mystery. And I always liked Engineers from LV-223, they cool.

After all, another reason why people was disappointed with Prometheus. Because Engineer was just an angry biomechanical bodybuilder. :)

About unnecessary Engineers in Prometheus. Well, when Ridley said what Alien prequel mutated in stand alone movie, he meant to the concept of the story what will be focused on Engineers, not on Aliens. He did not mean another universe, which was forced to connect with the Alien Universe. And Prometheus wasn't a story about AI. It's all about Space Jockeys Engineers.

I liked the Engineers, but I want Space Jockeys too, I'm greedy! :) ...even if they are only in my own imagination.

I think it could spoil ALIEN if we view it in the future & know who the pilot was, unless there's a very interesting explanation given.

No sooner were we introduced to the Engineers, when wham, David wipes them out in a flash! Then again Ridley claims they were the real deal, but to me they looked like a human-engineer hybrid.

It's so interesting how we all take different things from both movies & perceive them differently. There's so much food for thought here. 

Prometheus added landscapes and expanded the mystery, to me, in a good way in the Alien franchise.

A lot of the other films' scenes were in cramped/confined space areas while Prometheus started out and continued on with beautiful landscapes and Engineer mythology.

The Engineers, mutagen, and other lifeforms in Prometheus enriched the story in my opinion. And yes, I do like the technology shown including the busy android as well.

"I don't consider them stupid, btw, but we talking about theoretical auditory. What do you think?"

I agree with that, i think regardless of if we got Prometheus, Alien Engineers or Blomkamps Alien 5, Characters have to be done well... lets not Forget ALIENS had some Goofy Characters whats much difference between Hudson and Milburn, Hudson is more of a Goof-Ball, but his Character was Executed Better, by showing he may be a Goof-Ball but he can do his JOB WELL (Kill Stuff), with Milburn he made some silly cheesy mistakes, that fits more with AVPR than a ALIENS... and so was not as Clued-Up or Cautious as a Biologist should be.. but the drafts indicate reasons for this... and deleted scenes to a degree.  He is NOT the ONLY Broken Character in Prometheus though....  My Re-write i attempted to adjust some of the Dialog/Characters and make the SILLY moments seem more Logical...  such as my SPACE COBRA petting Scene... which is more longer and has good reasons for it.

I agree that some of Characters seem to not perform their jobs right in Prometheus... maybe the Vickers never chose the best so the Mission Failed Explanation can go some way to explain it...  But its still not ideal...

For example...  prior to the Hammerpede Petting, i went with the draft idea showing Fifield was smoking POT, and then he takes a Great Interest in the Green Crystal and he attempted to Grab it which then Activated the MURAL Door to open... This was one scene used to show a bit after the Hammerpede Scene  a brief look into the Room Behind.

Milburn is also more careful of the Hammerpede, but he Slips over and ends up facing the Hammerpede... while Fifield is Freaking Out... Milburn turns to tell Fifield to stay calm, and takes his eyes of the Space Cobra which then goes to Strike Milburn, but he manages to Grab it... and then goes to stand up, but then the Hammerpede Wraps around his ARM.

The Alternatives i looked at using the Sacrificial Cup instead, in which case, i had Fifield once covered in the Black Goo Stumble into the Altar and Knock the Cup over and this activated the MURAL Door.

The MURAL Room Shot would have been a quick distance glimpse where you would make out Murals on the Wall similar to HR Gigers Face Hugger Concept. It would show a Octopoid looking Organism, on the Face of a Humanoid, there would be a Image of a Chest Buster like Organism, and a Ovoid like Spore.   The Room also had a Table, and on the Walls Cryo-Sleep Chambers and Smaller more Round Canister like Chambers much like the ones that the Ripley Clones where Grown in, but with a Engineer Tech look to them.

Indicating this Room is where the Engineers would Contain Sacrifices in Storage (Much like the Prisoners in Alien Resurrection) But in Chambers more like Engineer Cryo-Pods, and Eggs in similar to Alien Resurrection but more Round Canister with Engineer look to them.

These Egg Containers are placed Above the Cryo-Pods (or Below) and they are Activated they Move towards and Tilt towards the Cryo-Pods and then they connect much like the Alien Resurrection Face Hugger Scene... but this is NOT implied in the Room we only see the Cryo-Pods and Egg Storage Pods in the same Vicinity and they are all EMPTY the Table in the Center has Drainage Holes and Tubes, i do not show the Roof... but if i did it would have a like Glass Container that would come down onto the Table and Seal the Sacrificial Host on it, much like the MED-POD this is lowered and raised by a Mechanical Arm/Device.

So Visually this scene which would not be shown for long would show us that this Room is where Organisms related to the Deacon/Xenomorph are Stored along with Sacrificial Hosts  and these Hosts are then Infected in a Controlled Environment.... then they are placed on the Table.

This Functions to Contain the Chest Buster... which they then sedate.... then they have TWO options.

1) Obtain Organism and move it to a Growth Pod/Storage.

2) contain the Organism on the Table/Pod and introduce the Goo to it, to then Break Down its DNA and collect the broken down Substance that drains down the Tubes and then taken to a Place via Pipes to be Stored into Containers.

So as to show this Room is where they Gestate a Organism related to the Xenomorph/Deacon and then they Break Down/Obtain its DNA to be stored in the URNS.

I had a idea to expand this, buy having another Character/Merc Wonder and become locked into this ROOM where they explore the Room Beyond that, which is Larger and is some kind of Factory where the Drained DNA of the Sacrificial Room, is placed into the URNS.

However such a Scene would add to the Movie Length, and also having ANOTHER missing Character, would make it even more SILLY to go down to look for Them, Milburn and Fifield.  But its still a scene i would contemplate doing.

All in all, this would reveal what i interpreted the MURAL as and show HOW the Goo got into those Urns.  its just little more detailed scenes like this that would reduce the ambiguity of the Movie.

Regarding the ALIEN connections, as i said you need better Characters, you needed a few more scenes that would be more ALIENY and less Ambiguous as i attempted with my Re-write/Edit....   Then MAYBE it would be enough to please those who was not happy at the lack of Xenomorph Clues and Monsters..  It would sweeten them a little, while still NOT giving too much away...

So then a Prometheus 2 could NOT have to cover the Xenomorph as per say..   But a Prometheus 2 would still have to balance out the Ancient Gods Plot, with something more HP Lovecraftian to be able to make it viable as a ALIEN connected movie..

For example Alien Covenant was LESS of the HR Giger/Derelict like Aesthetic than even Prometheus, where it needed to Maintain more of that Aesthetic but also have the Ancient Looking Buildings... a BALANCE.. But instead this Bio-Mechanical Aesthetic was all but dropped.

I think the broader idea and themes could have worked well as a STAND ALONE movie that had No connections to anything in ALIEN, from Derelict Ship/Space Jockey as far as design/aesthetic.. it could be Bio-Mechanical but just not too much like the ALIEN movies Elephantine Suit, or U/C Shaped Ships.... and also have NO company named Weyland or Yutani, and lastly Monsters that are NOT too close to Eggs, Face Huggers and Xenomorphs.

So yes it may have been for the best if it was like this... PURELY down to how it would not have had to be Shackled with ALIEN and Fans expecting Each movie to be about Xenomorph like Monsters.. and more Horror/Action than a Space 2001 meets At the Mountains of Madness  Space Adventure into the Unknown

Its NOT that having it in ALIEN Universe was wrong, it was that the Balance was not right, the first movie needed to be more like a Alien Engineers, well 50-60% Prometheus, 25-30% Alien Engineers and 10-25% some other things added to make the Aamalgamation more seamless.

Leaving a Sequel to explore the Prometheus elements, to like 80% and ALIEN (HR Giger/HP Lovecraft) elements at 20%

But in HINDSIGHT the Balance was not enough, the connections not enough, and not even ALIENY threat, by that Alien Covenant had this with Neomorph/Xenomorph more than Zombie Fifield and Hammerpede Throat Rape!

So some Fans wanted a more Xenomorph Sequel, and Spoon Fed Origins... and this is what they got with a TWIST they wish they never had!

"For example, we don't have to know who Giger's Space Jockey, or Engineer if you prefer, the one in the derelict, actually is for Prometheus to work. In fact with hindsight I don't think that is even necessary"

I think if we look at HR Gigers Concepts, it shows us Bald Humanoids as the Space Jockey, and the concept idea behind the Prequels was ok, the PROBLEM was the Scale!

The Drafts had 15ft Engineers, then down to 12ft and Finally as of Production Design they was intended to be 10ft but we could see due to lack of Special Effects like used in Game of Thrones and The Hobbit/Lord of the Rings, our ILLUSION of a 10ft Race never worked and they passed as 8ft Tops... this is the same Error made in Alien when our Space Jockey went from about 21ft to about 13-15ft by virtue of swapping Child Actors (4ft) with Adults (6ft) when up close to the Space Jockey.

This Error in Size did allow for the Introduction to another Race to be the Space Jockey, or inferred as... and maybe yes they could be LESS Human but would still have to be Humanoid in a Space suit.   But this kind of Reveal is more limited now with the Alien Covenant route of the event NO-LONGER being Ancient.

"Also, from Prometheus we could assume that each of the Engineer silos contained something different. Maybe some had eggs?"

I would TOTALLY agree, because if we look into the Alien Engineers Plot, it seemed to indicate the Engineers came across a Organism they likely NEVER created, (similar to what infected Holloway) then the Engineered/Experimented with it using the Nano-Scarabs (Goo) maybe similar to HOW we had David use various experiments to make different versions of the Deacon/Neomorph related Organisms while on Planet 4.

And so Alien Engineers showed the Engineers had Engineered from some Organism, 7-8 Variations of Organisms Genetically related to a degree.

So its likely Each Temple Complex on LV-223 either had a Different Variation of the Deacon or contained the same Deacon Base but using Different Hosts and thus Each Temple is dedicated to a different Created Race...  The ONE in Prometheus by Luck maybe for Humans. (Fire and Stone also indicated this)  and so either or a combination of the above explanation has to be in and around the correct BALL PARK.

So indeed LONE i feel your was correct with your reply ;)

"And Prometheus wasn't a story about AI. It's all about Space Jockeys Engineers."

I will first add, that the Prequel had started to be more ALIENY, but then it was deemed that the Xenomorphs had been shown over and over, and maybe the other aspects of Alien Engineers was better to Evolve and add more Depth.

Because ONCE you do a Literal Prequel all you are doing is connecting the Dots, or even Marching to the Inevitable.  Most who had seen Alien and Aliens should take away from it, what the Xenomorph was.. 

It was inferred and confirmed by RS way way back, that it was a Bio-Weapon... it was left ambiguous to where it came from... but indicated it was either something they Created as a Purpose of a Weapon of Sorts, or Discovered and seen as potential to use as a Weapon of Sorts or a Combination in something that was Discovered and Engineered/Weaponized on to make a Bio-Weapon.

We only never got any Direct Answer or Spoon Fed showing of this..    

What happened to the Space Jockey? again pretty obvious he was infected by his own Cargo, HOW? well getting Face Hugged but we never got a Spoon Fed series of Events that showed HOW/WHEN he got Face Hugged by his own Cargo.

Some things maybe dont need fully explaining in such detail..

But the idea is ONCE you explain the Xenomorph Origin and if its was as i suggested above (which is what RS had hinted at).  Where do you GO then? once we know the Xenomorph was a Weapon Created by the Engineers, and the Space Jockey Fate explained..  WHATS NEXT?

More Xenomorph Movies?  Xenomorphs vs Engineers vs Marines?

Once you have explained the above, its the WHY that is important, WHY they created it, and for against WHO, and the Process that started it...  show it was Created from Scratch,  Engineered from something Else etc... but its the WHY and for WHO against thats the Bigger Questions to expand on... which could take us to the Space Jockey Race, Culture, History and Conflicts.

So this is what they wanted to START to do, and then decided do we actually need Xenomorphs that have been seen over and over, and do we need to Spoon Feed the Space Jockey Ancient Event?  So lets keep some that Mystery!

The Problem being that taking out the Xenomorph was a issue, not too much... but they needed to replace it with something similar and the Fifield Zombie, Hammerpede Scene, the Trilobite and only seeing the Chest Buster Deacon simply were NOT enough ALIENY encounters and Scenes compared to what Alien Engineers had.. and so they needed for these Scenes a BALANCE.   And so in this Regard... Alien Engineers maybe too much and had more Xenomorph like Monsters (actual Face Huggers) and Prometheus had too Less.... where something in the MIDDLE would have been best.

"And Prometheus wasn't a story about AI. It's all about Space Jockeys Engineers."

So back to this point, indeed to a degree..  but its about Creation, Sub-Creation, the Hubris of this and especially when your Creation gets too much Knowledge/Free-will and become a Threat/Concern and then you Sub-Create something Horrid to use on your Creation that you cant control. Its about Rebellion against your Creator and the Limited Role intended for you.

The AI aspect i feel Ridley Scott is trying to show that AI does-not mean Robots... 

Lets say we go back to WW2 and Hitler Won... and then he decided to Engineer Hybrids, by Crossing Humans and Apes to make Planet of the Apes Super Soldiers then these would be a AI by Virtue of them being a Intelligent Creation but one that is created by Artificial Means.

He could have been setting up that the Engineers in Prometheus are similar, in they are Artificially Engineered.   We need to look at his comments about AI in context to discussing the Alien Covenant Sequel..

He suggested the Replicants are AI and when we consider he called the Planet 4 Engineers the Originals, we could conclude those LV-223 are maybe like Replicants are to Humans in Blade Runner.

I feel he was also asking us about AI in terms of this being a kind of Conscious/Soul and indeed asking IF we have a Eternal Soul...  and i am led to him to go the route of showing WE DONT.. but a AI could, (as in a Synthetic Brain/Conscious Program).

Going further maybe to suggest, IF we ever could Transcend our Memories, Experiences, and thus SOUL into a AI Program (like Transcendence or even the Software used in the Movie The 6th Day to back up these from Humans to be transferred into a Clone when their Original Body is Damaged/Destroyed.

If we ever could achieve this... then we would gain Immortality and a Soul that lives on after Death, and can be Resurrected..... which a AI like Davids Soul could... but maybe a Human without such Technology Achievements would not..

I am drawn to BOTH those uses of AI as subjects RS was looking to expand on, that relate to Engineers and their Creation, and Creators. But also with David and what he wants to Create too.

Lone I agree with the botched marketing on Prometheus.I recall reading an interview in a magazine with Lindeloff.In the interview he stated that Prometheus was a prequel but not in the traditional sense using Star Wars as an example because they were stories we all knew where they were headed.This after all that "don't call It a prequel" publicity.

Another example on how it's advertising may have confused was my Dad's reactions to the advertising.My Dad can count himself among those who saw Alien back in 1979,yet he was completely unaware that Prometheus was a prequel of sorts but was non the less intrigued by the film.I never told him either, instead I said pay close attention next time he saw a commercial for it and he might recognize somethings.He did figure it out.

I saw it in theaters with him, and while I loved it my Dad was only confused as to what the hell it had to do with Alien.My Mother had a similar reaction when I first showed it to her as well.Being tied to Alien created expectations which may not have been fair for Prometheus.

ninXeno426 I can relate to and agree with your parents since I had a similar reaction. It has aged better though.

I agree.I've always enjoyed it,but I thought perhaps because I am a little younger than some and didn't have a lot of expectations. I honestly didn't know what to expect.I didn't follow it heavily on the internet, instead getting most of my knowledge from various magazine articles.The first trailer I saw was in front of The Walking Dead season 2 finale lol.

My first real taste of the movie was by looking at the art book of all things,and it impressed me because what I had seen showed the Alien universe in a way I had never seen before.Prometheus remains the most unique Alien film in terms of visuals.