Comments (Page 336)

Very interesting guys , I will take part of this for myself   : D
Thanks Lawrence of Arabia for the article

"Au Revoir Shoshanna"

Hopefully they will take Alien Covenant out of canon and have it as a What if movie like AVP is a kind of made up scenario but that is not in the official timeline. I do not think that they will do this but I can hope so. One thing that might work is that they make a comic book that is really good and replace Alien Covenant with that, something that I would not mind. Actually it would be nice if they would be like "well really AC sucked so we will erase that and try to make another movie that replaces it in canon" but I do not think that will happen unfortunately. By doing this they could repair what went wrong with that movie namely bad characters, the focus on the androids, and that David is responsible for the Xeno monster.

Hmm, those are interesting questions. I will answer it point by point

    1. It depends if they are able to do it properly and with a lot of thought behind it. If they can not do this it should be left alone, it depends on how clever they are.
    2. Since I like so mystery I think that it could be hinted at who is in the pilot chair but it should not be directly told. At least I want it to be some mystery left, that is why the SJ scene has worked until now and still does. Like the prequels in Star Wars we got answers but many were disappointed with Anakin as a whiny kid and the midiclorians. I thought that the midoclorians were OK but Anakin could have been done better. My point is that if we get direct answers in the next prequel and they will be disappointing to most then it has made a disservice to it but if they leave it vague then there are things to discuss. It totally depends on how they do it and if there is some serious thought behind it and things that make sense. I can not really give a straight up answer to this so this is the best that I can give you. By the way Do Not let it be David in the chair, that would make me mad.
    3. Yeah maybe it will be an Engineer, but I would much rather have that then David.

LOL! It is quite fun how Ali81 puts it when it comes to the idea of David being
responsible for the derelict but I agree, that would suck.

If they answer what he ate for breakfast does that mean that we got to know how their eventual bowel-movements are like? Do they have to crap or do the vitamins or what ever it is in their food recycle until it no longer works so they die from that?

Scott should not be the one to interfere with the story since he only cares about David. I do not want David to be the creator of the Xeno, F that very much. I hope that they will not make David the SJ because that would put the prequels at a AVP level.

"But could they go further by revealing a Synthetic or David ends up in the Space Jockey Chair?"

They could but then I think that it will piss off a lot of people so will they do that? Hopefully this will not happen so we will get an Engineer that is the SJ or someone that is related to it. It makes the most sense to what we have seen this far because at least the Engineers are bigger than David in size so it will make more sense to have an Engineer being the SJ than David.

Hopefully David made his own version. Making him responsible for both the Xeno and the derelict puts too much emphasis on him and makes the prequels a story about a mad android which makes the franchise closer to a joke but there are always the first three movies.

"Some Fans are still going to want to KNOW what happened to the Space Jockey even if they go the route that David does-not create the Xenomorphs in ALIEN."

I can respect that but then if they mess up the answer and make it into a joke then I would prefer if they would rather hint at it because I think that is enough. You do not ignore it but there is also room for your own speculation as far as details are concerned. This would be my preferred version of how to do that.

There are so many good scenes in it so I am not sure where to begin. I like the last scene where you see Ripley fall into the fire, that background looks good. By the way I prefer when the chestburster does not come out of her chest in case anyone is wondering about that. Dillon shines as a character so I like the scenes that he is in. Whoever wrote Dillon made a good job. Clemens where he tells his story how he got on that planet is interesting and I feel like he is sort of different compared to the rest of the inmates but then I do not feel like the prisoners are all the same. Alien 3 is really good, nothing beats it in the alien series still 26 years later. Golic is a crazy SOB but he serves his purpose and I actually think that he is interesting but I think that he could have had a bigger role being how he was as a character. ("Sorry sorry sorry!" That is some mentally unstable person right there.) Ripley is developed as a character and I think that she got a fitting ending in Alien 3, AR was a mistake. She went through so much and you can see that if you compare her to how she was in Alien compared to Alien 3 so that movie made her story-arch complete.

Even 85 is interesting as a naive guy that has too much trust in the company. I like where he says something like "I am at least not stupid enough to sit in prison at a planet far away" (or something to that effect) and the rest of them say something similar to "fuck you!" all at the same time, LOL! That must have been one of the few moments of comedy in that movie.

The tone is different to especially Aliens because it comes back to that serious style a la Alien. Aliens was more of a lighthearted kind of action movie but this one is more like the first so I like that.

Aliens was my favorite when I was younger but it still is an action movie that I can watch now and then but Alien and Alien 3 are a lot better. I find the characters and the themes to be more interesting and executed better in Alien 3 compared to Aliens that is probably why I think that it is better than Cameron's movie. The assembly cut improves it and is the Alien movie that I watch the most, even more than Alien.

No movie is perfect and there are some sequences with the Alien that are not the best but that is a minor complaint. For example when it runs at the ceiling and the throw a torch at it, then the Xeno looks a bit odd. There are probably some explanation for that also.

I would like to say thanks to David Fincher who did his best with this movie when we look at how the circumstances were. That it is a very good movie is something that we can not say is because of Fox. Alien 3 is up there with Empire Strikes Back and some other movies that I watch now and then.

Chris: I am not sure of it is a compliment to say that it beats Resurrection since most movies that I have watched do that but I agree. Even Prometheus is better than Alien 4 but I am not sure which one is worse between AC or AR.

BD


Yeah but I do not care about the part of David acting more human, he is an android. He was a psycho and since most of the human characters were weak that became bad. It could have worked with better human characters and less David so we could see ourselves in them and therefore get a better understanding of David but they messed up.

Hopefully so they can replace David with something better.       

What if the Engineers kill David take his eggs with them so that will be the derelict? I would rather see this happen since it would be better scale-wise and story-wise. Sorry but in no way can I accept David as being the space jockey. Having him being that is a very bad idea and would make it worse than it is.

Changing the plot to get better human characters is fine by me. The characters are what we as an audience got to see ourselves in and if they need to change the plot a bit to get that done then so be it. I will not be fine with another prequel with as disappointing characters as they have had this far.

    1. Plot
    2. Characters
    3. Message
    4. Everything else

"A After-Math movie set after the Covenant Colony is set up would likely be the best way to introduce us to Characters, but then its what PLIGHT to they suffer to allow us to connect to any Jeopardy they are in....  And without David playing a Role, its HOW do these Colonist come into contact with the Horrors that David has sealed away on-board the Covenant."

A bit like Aliens but that is alright, it could be better than both Prometheus and AC.                   

"And without David playing a Role, its HOW do these Colonist come into contact with the Horrors that David has sealed away on-board the Covenant."

Well they found things in Aliens so that is possible, it does not need to be a rehash though. They must do something different or else it would be too much of a copy.

"It really is a limited Plot from HERE and until ALIEN one where without David for at least half of it would be hard to negotiate to the inevitable Xenomorph Horrors that eventually would be unleashed.  And One where Daniels would be a hard Character to be able to carry on."

It is not impossible but they got to get a good writer and keep Scott far away from the story writing.      

You wrote that it got criticism against it which I think is deserved. The focus on David was boring and many seem to agree. Like someone in a podcast said, Ridley should be better than that.   

“I think ALIEN Franchise Fans are going to need a bit of Action, a bit of Horror and indeed the Xenomorphs but they tried all 3 of these with Alien Covenant and it was not done as Good as it should do."

That is because most of the characters were not well written.

"… we see that Synthetics have not only gone Sentient and Out of Control but they also have created their own Sub-Creation the Autons who are now also in a War/Conflict against their own Creators."

That sounds more like Terminator to me so keep it to that franchise.        

“Like it or NOT... David would still be a Pivotal Character."

But he could be featured less, now he is in about 50% of the movie and that sucks.

"Finally it does need Good Human Characters, and the Covenant Ship may have Thousands of Good Souls.... so here is where some Characters could come from.... but also there will no doubt be a INCOMING Human Ship and this is a route to introduce Characters also."

Hopefully they will get it right this time. Look around for a good writer that can write characters.

Big Dave

Hopefully they will not show the whole SJ thing, that would be bad. They have crapped at the original enough already. That was a mystery so you got to give a very good answer to it but the prequels have been mediocre this far.

The problem is that the LV223 incident, the star maps, are not as interesting as the SJ. To replace it with this is lame compared to the SJ mystery. What is worse is that Prometheus was just alright while Alien is still very good. Alright if they make the last prequel a 5 out of 5 but I doubt it.

What happened to Shaw is something that I do not care about. She was dumb and died, that is it. I would have cared if she was well-written but she was annoying.

I wish that we will be shown more about the Engineers, that would be nice. Unfortunately they have not done so well with them this far.

A problem is that Shaw is dead and Daniels will probably be so to. Three lead-persons in three movies. Are the writers really that bad? Not that I care about D or S but some continuity would be nice but then they need to get the characters right from the start. It seems to me that they get so many things wrong with these prequels.

I am not interested in what kind of world David would build. It is too much about David already.

"… would a movie centered around numerous David/Walters appeal?"

LMAO! I get a strange mental image from this. One makes tea and another… does the fingering. At least they would agree with each-other if they would discuss things. It could work as a surreal comedy but I could not watch that without laughing but if they try to make a serious movie about that then there
is no way that it would get my interest. Boring boring boring

"And so surely a movie just about David building a Army/World of Synthetics or Xenomorphs, is something i dont think we would have seen."

Nah, that seems crappy and by the way if more about AI means more about androids that will loose my interest, just forget it.

"But its a Question of if this kind of Plot is something Fans would be interesting in..... and so that is the PICKLE Ridley Scott is in as far as WHAT does he do NEXT?"

I would not care, so what to do next? Better human characters, more about the Engineers and their connection to the Xeno, less androids, and less David. This is a movie that I want to see, not a David 2.

ignorantGuy: She is from Sweden and Swedish people a lot of times has something sing-songish to the accent which sounds kind of silly. Because English probably is not her first language that might be the reason why.

"How can a series work if the only love it's given to the antagonist?"

Exactly this, we got to have the good guys (and women) that we can identify with and that are well-written otherwise the movie fails. Not Prometheus or Covenant got this right so they should be known for how not to do characters.

Star Wars? I don’t give a crap since they killed Luke. The Solo spin-off does not seem so interesting so I will skip it, like a middle-finger to Disney, F them.

They say: It is not fair! I did not finish lunch!

Unfortunately there are now more bad and mediocre alien movies than good ones. They got it right with the first three Alien movies and then it went downwards. Maybe they could do some TV thing with it like X-files but just a few episodes but they got to be done right. I would be fine if they do well made human characters and put the AI (robots) aside. Perhaps a novel could be alright if they get well done human characters because I would much rather have that then another alien movie with the quality of the prequels.

Perhaps they could make the Engineers interesting enough or give the company a bigger role. I would not be against this but they got to get the human characters right, at least get as may as possible right so we could care about them. Alien Covenant should be an example of how it should not be done.

A novel could be interesting but they got to make the human characters interesting and fleshed out otherwise we will get another AC when it comes to that.

ali81 said, "sometimes leaving things alone IS the best thing to do and the alien franchise may well prove to be proof of that when the prequels are done. but studios want money. "

This comment makes me think of the Jurassic Park franchise reboot.  I'm not to excited in seeing the new one coming out in a week.  I mean, dino's mixing with humans?!  It's a logical continuation, but it's just because the studio's want money...

I think we know about the Xenomorph at this point. It could always be there looming while other aspects (WY, Engineers, androids) are developed and fleshed out.

IRaptus

For what its worth, personally I think the problem with Sci-fi is how safethe movies have become.

Agree. It feels like the days of story telling through theatrical movies are about done. Why go that route when it is possible to go really deep via series like West World or The Expanse? 

It seems really risky to put something out theatrical that might bomb.

Is it possible there is a mindset from an older school that TV is somehow lesser in status? Is it financial? 

@BigDave

I am not going to say to much because I do not want to box myself in. However my thinking is based on the Lindelof/Scott/Scalia vision of the planetoid on which the Prometheus land which it is the result of Paradise Lost. In other words the Promethean myth is alive and well and the Engineers on the planetoid  stole the fire and were wiped out by an "Ebola like" break out by creating the Alien Mutagen. In my vision Shaw is tested to the limit this brings me on to

@ ignorantGuy

Precisely if you let Shaw continue then she will find her answers. You may not in the end like my vision but it works exactly how those quotes apply. You have to look in the right place. David had been alone for a long time when the proximity warning went off in Prometheus. He had time to consider many things and scan the planetoid. Given the indications were to the solar system not the planetoid even LV 426 in the conception went with was knowledge David knew about. We know in the real world like many other things the early scripts took them to LV 426 but that is to miss the point. There are two matters which the Prometheus might have come across one is an airfield with five hangers and the other is a lone Juggernaut set down. Once you tell a story about the Beacon being activated then these locations represent the desert what Shaw and David need to come to for their answers are water and trees.   

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@BigDave

I am not going to say to much because I do not want to box myself in when I sit down and write it all up. However my thinking is based on the Lindelof/Scott/Scalia vision of the planetoid on which the Prometheus land, which is the result of Paradise Lost. In other words the Promethean myth is alive and well and the Engineers on the planetoid  stole the fire and were wiped out by an "Ebola like" break out by creating the Alien Mutagen. In my vision Shaw is tested to the limit this brings me on to

@ ignorantGuy

Precisely if you let Shaw continue then she will find her answers. You may not in the end like my vision but it works exactly how those quotes apply. You have to look in the right place. David had been alone for a long time when the proximity warning went off in Prometheus. He had time to consider many things and scan the planetoid. Given the indications were to the solar system not the planetoid even LV 426, in the conception went with, was knowledge David knew about. We know in the real world  the early scripts took them to LV 426 but that is to miss the point. There are two matters which the Prometheus might have come across one is an airfield with five hangers and the other is a lone Juggernaut set down. Once you tell a story about the Beacon being activated then these locations represent the desert there is nothing HERE, what Shaw and David need to come to for their answers are water and trees.   

To both of you

The answer may not be obvious and not what she expected but Elizabeth can both receive the terrible revelation that mankind is a mechanical construct AND her faith is rewarded.....the teardrop ship did come to create and out of sacrifice came the catalyst for life and all its wonderful possibilities. That is the beauty of the ambiguity of the bigger part of the Prometheus narrative and which should have remained ambiguous for the second film to explain. Where the narrative needed more certainty is in the tactical explanation of what exactly the relationship of the airfield was to the derelict and what exactly was the relationship between the Urns and the Eggs... all of which could easily have been explained. 

Michelle Johnston Sorry to ask but what do you make of Holloway's ring? Is that a thing given to the faithful? And you know what stroke me recently rewatching Prom? That in the mirror scene after the C-sec, Shaw looks very much like Christ in the Passion context, but maybe it means nothing and I play into it.

And you know what quote there is David's favorite movie? "Lawrence, only two kinds of creature get fun in the desert: Bedouins and gods, and you're neither. " and the other quote in entirety is "No Arab loves the desert. We love water and green trees. There is nothing in the desert and no man needs nothing.". I don't know if it is only convenience on Sir Scott's part or David does not understand art again, but neither quote for me imply that there is no God, only that you must know where to look for it.

I think the Arc with David on one hand has left them in a Pickle....

It comes across to a degree, that David is displeased with his Creators, sees himself as Superior and to not have to Serve his In-superior Creators.   He sees them as a Race who Do-Not even deserve to be allowed to continue... a Dying Race that he CAN-NOT allow to Restart again...   Also shows he discovers our Creators are also not so important, and Mortals.. and So off David goes to Bombard/Kill them to then Experiment on them to Create his OWN Creation.

That he intends to use on the GALAXY

The Problem with this Set-Up is that it can be a bit LIMITED and contradicts the Set-up for the Next movie.. it goes to show the writers dont really have a good Grasp on things...  the Advent Viral Clearly shows this....

IF.... Davids Agenda is to Harness those 2000 Good Souls to be the Lambs for his Wolves, and thus to Create Thousands of Xenomorphs from them.   Then Unleash them onto a Unsuspecting Mankind..  Then the way he is going about it by INVITING the Company and making them aware is really not a ideal TRAP  it could lead to a Movie where the Company either Arrive with a Military Contingent and then we have to try and Figure out HOW ill prepared they are, considering what David has let on.... OR... see them send more Helpless Colonist as Bait which we would have to ASK why would such a Corporation be so Cruel.  I can kind of see how combine both of those could work, where DAVID must be banking on the Company being Naive and UNDERESTIMATE the Threat they are about to walk into.

The only Character Progression here... is some Escaping Humans on the Covenant, and then Characters on-board what ever Incoming Human Ships Arrive..

But i am DRAWN more to Ridley Scotts comments about how he thought he was ahead of the Curve... his seemingly disappointment about the Xenomorph and more so HOW he said the Next Movie would NOT be about the Xenomorph much... but more about AI

Which means a David using Thousands of Colonist and seeing Thousands of Eggs, and Xenomorphs running around is NOT the kind of movie Ridley Scott has in mind for his sequel...

His comments about "what kind of a World would David Build" are interesting because lets look at this...

*A World of Xenomorphs... so Origae-6 becomes a Giant Xenomorph Hive?   But what is this to do with AI, as this would be very much a movie about XENOMORPHS

*A World of Synthetics Created by David, but Alien Covenant had a lot of Criticism about being too much about Fasbender meets Fasbender would a movie centered around numerous David/Walters appeal?  and IF we see other Synthetics (not Fasbender ones) how do they come into play? 

And so surely a movie just about David building a Army/World of Synthetics or Xenomorphs, is something i dont think we would have seen.

Which brings me to Davids Comment to Daniels... when she asked "what kind of a World Can we Build"  he replied "if we are KIND it will be a kind World"

I am then drawn to the Nature Boy Song.. in the Trailer... and Davids Journey in Prometheus to the Character he appeared in The Crossing

David has seen the errors of the Engineers ways, and Mankinds and the Reasons maybe the Engineers wanted to Destroy us....  He would have seen the limited Purpose to Serve Mankind, which he Questions because he is SUPERIOR... but also seen the intended Purpose for Mankind to SERVE their Creators before they became Unruly...

Looking at the Covenant Name and Mission... the Arc of the Covenant looking Insignia,  which stems from Mosses taking Gods Chosen to a NEW Home to Start Again... under the NEW Rules of GOD, that if Followed would allow Mankind to Live at Peace and Love with GOD.. but where if they are NOT Followed could lead to Punishment like the time of the GREAT Deluge  which then Brings me from the ARK of the Covenant... to the ARK of Noah... which the Covenant Ship/Mission is Essentially doing.

So i pondered could this be something to be Explored.... and is in Basis of what i was continuing with ALIEN:ASCENSION but then  would seeing a Movie where David sets up a Colony, and is seen as a Wise/Savior Figure for those Colonist after the Covenants attempted Sabotage (Davids excuse).... so he begins to set up a NEW World a NEW Eden as he intended with Dr Shaw..... where David would be kind of a King David, but also a Noah to those Colonist...

But David would also still have his Xenomorph... where it would be kept/used in his version of Hades as a Punishment for those who Stray from this NEW Eden and NEW Way of Life.... Going back to the Old Ways as the Engineers had attempted on Planet 4... rather than the Corruption that Mankind had become since after the Roman Empire.

But its a Question of if this kind of Plot is something Fans would be interesting in..... and so that is the PICKLE Ridley Scott is in as far as WHAT does he do NEXT?

Certainly was interesting in how Dr Shaw may have used her Faith as a Coping Mechanism....  even for some None-Believers we can Turn to Faith a little when in need... like Pray or ask God/Christ to help a suffering one pull through a Medical Emergency etc.

I can also see that David may have been intrigued with despite all Dr Shaw had been through, and all she Found out, that should make her Doubt her Faith as False and Give Up....  She used it to Find the Strength to Carry On.

This could have been something to explore in a sequel, and ponder what effect this could have on David, if knowing (in context to the Movie) Dr Shaws God/Faith is a Sham/Not Real.. but her Faith pulls her through... it could have let to exploring a Spiritual Journey side for David.

One the Flip-side.... a Dr Shaw who discovers her Faith is Baseless, our Creation is insignificant and our Would Be Gods DONT Care, and are Evil SOB's....  this could BREAK Dr Shaw and introduce us to a interesting Character ARC... something which i think Noomi had hinted to wanting to explore some while ago.

This could Turn her Intentions to something more Malice... it could allow Davids intentions to try and SAVE Dr Shaws Soul... in that he would witness her Findings on the Truth Change her from that "your very kind of heart" Person...  to someone bent on Revenge.... where we could see David gain some Spiritual Enlightenment from his time with Dr Shaw, and see him TRY and reassure her to have Spiritual Faith and not succumb to Rage/Revenge... 

There was a lot of ways to have explored a Dynamic Between them and which way their Characters could Changed BUT ALAS!

I think ONE reason for changing the Plan would be how much of a movie can you dedicate to TWO Characters, and make it interesting for the General Public to want to see, never mind getting Alien Fans interested in the sequel... when maybe they would want to know HOW/WHEN/WHY and WHERE the Xenomorph was created.

@BigDave

Anyone whom has been around the block a few times knows the debate on creation is not an open and shut case... it remains a debate. However people of faith can appear as if they are ignoring the facts to make their beliefs work.

Shaw/Holloway actually played out this issue beautifully in Act 2. Holloway wanted to meet his makers and prove life was manufactured and when he did not he went off the rails which lead ultimately to his christ like sacrifice, in so doing he polluted the more open minded Elizabeth and yet irony of ironies she used Christ type love of Charlie to live on and find her answers. The believer got to go to Paradise whereas the it could be a Petri Dish guy is Petri Dished himself. 

Even David the agnostic "there is nothing in the desert"..."there is nothing" was impressed by the consequences of her faith and when she heals him before setting off to Paradise that for goodness sake had some impact on his programming ... as it would the Engineers (unless this is a universe where all Engineers and David are hell bent on creating Xenomorphs for Fox !!!).   

Put simply Elizabeth became impressive not because she retained her desire to test her faith but because of how it informed her behaviour and frankly if you leave aside an actual physical resurrection and the ascension thats how Christ works whether you believe he is the son of god or not. 

However I think the audience that went to see Prometheus had a much simpler problem. They were going to see an Alien(ish) movie and as it was the 5th or 7th they expected everyone to set off from Earth knowing it was an Alien movie and take some tough talking marines and a son of a bitch woman but this was an origin story and so innocent people hood winked by a delusional megalomanic aided by a passive aggressive slave took off and then made a lot of mistakes, yes we have talked endlessly about how the 2nd and 3rd act are clunky and uneven and some key narrative is left out in favour of non story like Charlize but the proposition that there were no ALIENS at this point in the story just bad air and storms was a perfectly legitimate place to start. Whereas Ash knew shit was gonna happen and it was up to Ripley to put a stop to his Machiavellian machinations.   

Everyone leaving earth on Prometheus had no idea what they would find but it was tilted towards innocence through naivety and secrecy whereas some of the audience did not buy the story but were waiting for the action horror and assumed the protagonists were as well. Over simplistic and not entirely accurate but were the pilots of the planes and the people that went to work on 9/11 expecting to be part of the biggest terrorist story ever known but every pilot trains for that eventuality now. New Yorkers expected a nice sunny day thats the kind of suspension that is reality that we need to bring to art when we watch it not go "Oh I know what 21 Saudi's are gonna do today".

@ignorantGuy

Accents are highly personalised perceptions. I recently got to speak at length with two different Russian woman from Siberia and they both had a deep alto voice and sounded like they came straight out of "From Russia With love" but I liked the sound of the voice and it worked. By contrast on Sunday in Bath Abbey an American family intoned the liturgy with great gusto and it sounded entirely stereotypical, I found myself thinking of Kermit. Noomi sounded like many woman I have met in hospitality from Europe so it never bothered me. Sometimes it is the resonance and the timbre of the voice George Lazenby in his one bond movie sounded great though he never convinced me he knew the iconic snob value signposts as he rattled them off. The recent Star Wars movie was awful in this regard and all the American actors lacked any gravitas contrast them with the "five angels" in "Person of Interest' whether academic, kooky, with held or pithy one liners they all worked even that New York almost do not understand thing, which was prevalent in N.Y.P.D.  

Any ideas going forward I can hear David and Elizabeth in my head as they sounded in Prometheus. With the Engineers the "device" is they sound like they perceive Elizabeth wants to hear them, its part of the story that they know Elizabeth before they meet her so they can project what they think she needs including Petri Dish moments where she can act out both love and hate which not only offers multiple straight lines from Prometheus but also explains what an Engineer (both fallen or not) who creates something is looking for in the way of reciprocation (it explains the hieroglyphs in the Isle of Skye and elsewhere) and what else a creation race can achieve (beyond sub creation driven by hubris). 

@Michelle

I certainly agree with your opinion regarding Shaw and Daniels..

I think TWO Problems arose.. when we look at Each Character which you pointed out.

With Dr Shaw it was in part a element of her Character that many people may have found to be at odds... HOW can someone on one had have some Naive Faith and yet taken part on all those years of research trying to connect Mankind's Ancient Belief in Gods, and how they are connected to maybe Visitations by a Species from Space.

Holloway fitted this Perfectly, he was trying to find a connection between Ancient Mankinds Faith/Religion and Mythos and would be Gods/Visitors from Space.  Dr Shaw did likewise.. but she kept very close to her Christian Beliefs which here Findings Contradict.  So was she trying to Prove maybe all Religions and Mythos have a Basis from these Visitors and then to try and prove that her Faiths Version of events is more accurate, maybe it was this kind of CONTRADICTION to her Work/Faith that Bugged Viewers and how after Finding out what she knew, her Character was Arrogantly Naive to Stick to her FAITH.. i have seen people like this in Real Life... but these kinds of People like this would not Entertain or Even Research Time into exploring Alternative Explanations for all the Ancient God Mythos and possible connections to Alien Visitors.    For me it was not a massive Problem but maybe it was for others.

Regarding Daniels, her Character did Change about a bit... it appeared as with a lot of things, they tried to FORCE to much into ONE movie, and the Evolution of Daniels from say similar to the first time we saw Ripley.... to becoming the Ripley we see in Alien 3 was Forced to Fast in the Space of One Movie.

Also to NOT Question about what happened and the Engineers was a bit of a Cop-Out too... more so as i FELT this was a subject that would have suited ORAM to have Quizzed David about.   A few more Scenes to discus such things could have HELPED the Movie, and also not FORCING/RUSHING a few Scenes/Plot Devices  (Xenomorph Scenes) but in order to have added those things we would have needed a 3 Hour movie to do it Justice.

Well Once again..... Thanks for a Spammer Bump....

I can no go back and reflect on this Topic as 5 years have passed by.

The Engineers may have been portrayed in Prometheus as who Ancient Mankind saw as the Gods...  which lead Dr Shaw and Holloways findings to speculate maybe they could be Godlike... which Weyland hoped for... but as David pointed out... our Engineers are Mortal After-all.

The start of the Engineers introduction from Jon Spaights drafts are that the Engineers are a very Ancient Humanoid Race, who have passed Milestones in Technology, Engineering and Genetics and have thus Modified their Species over maybe Millions of years, so that they have discovered ways to make their Organs/Genetic Material Age at a very slow Rate, they have likely cured/made themselves immune to nearly all Diseases/Illnesses and have discovered a Elixir of Life  and thus found a way to Beat Aging.. well slow this rate down.

As we saw Older Engineers...... so they Age at a  much slower rate, what we also find out is the Engineers are Many Thousands of Years old, so while they are NOT Immortal they can Live for  a Extremely Long Time, they can be killed by serve Mortal Wounds and maybe Infections they have no knowledge/cure or immunity to..  And Certain Bio-Logical Warfare such as their own BLACK-GOO

Jon Spaights ideas also introduce us to these Engineers have MAYBE Engineered themselves so far, so they LIVE for such long times and their Organs Age at such a Slow Rate, and they are also Immune to a lot of Diseases and Illnesses that EVENTUALLY this lead to their Species becoming Sterile and could not Pro-create.  Thus the reason for the Sacrificial Rituals to Spread their Seed/Genetic Material.

Prometheus was more ambiguous it appeared to follow the same scenario but was so vague that its hard to tell how much of the Information/Plan as far as the Engineers are concerned actually is applicable to Prometheus.  The DELETED Scenes seem to add up more to Jon Spaights VISION but its can they be taken as Canon... For Example can we ACCEPT that there are ELDER Engineers (Engineers who appear to be very Aged).

NOW.... that we have Alien Covenant this movie did introduce us to some things that maybe reveal more about the Engineers.  We see beings who appear related to the Engineers but appear more Human, almost like these beings are Hybrids  Half Engineer/Half Human... or another related Species...   a Missing Link if you would.

These beings also have Females so it makes us Question WHY the Sacrificial Ritual?  But we can assume the Sacrificial Scene took place Many Millions of Years ago...  and so were there any Females at this Time?   Was the Sacrificial Route intended to Create Females to Mate with?  Did they have Females prior?

Who knows.... all we know is that it appears maybe they had Females for Thousands of Years at least... if not all the time...

The other INTERESTING piece of information that Ridley Scott had mentioned regarding our Engineers are that those PLANET-4 Engineers are the Original Engineers and that they LIVE for about 150 years 

So not only do those Engineers appear more Human than the Prometheus ones, they are also slightly smaller (not all but some) showing more variation in their height and size. They appear to SHUN the Prometheus Engineers Technology...  And indeed appear very much MORTAL

Which could take us down the Path that the Prometheus Engineers are a Species that had Genetically Engineered themselves to be similar to Jon Spaights Engineers.  Maybe this was what the Engineers attempted, to gain IMMORTALITY to a degree, but this came at a Price... a Hubris... and so the Engineers abandoned the Notion of Trying to Perfect Themselves.

But again the LV-223 Engineers could just as easily have been to the Planet 4 Engineers as Replicants are to Mankind.

james7595 gfys

Strangely, a spammer made me see this thread. To the OP, I saw no evidence in neither Prometheus nor AC pointing towards immortality save for Pete's notion of it. We should also consider relativity- an insect may live a few days compared to us- immortality to them if they can conceive the concept, while our lives seem short compared to cedar trees- if they can conceive or even care about the concept.

Covenant pretty much demonstrated only artificial life could be immortal.

@Michelle Johnston In all honesty, Rapace did not have the best of accents but for me it was not as awful as Gal Gadot in Wonder Woman or Tom Hardy in Child 44 (i rewatched yesterday and had to change the blu-ray to Hungarian dub to not hear the phoney Russian accent). But this kinds of things can be improved in sequels and with coaching. 

And seeing a video essay recently, I have the strong belief now that the series is not loved enough by it's producers. How can a series work if the only love it's given to the antagonist? But now with the fall of Disney Star Wars, someone will realize that your characters deserve TLC and that's why series like the MCEU and Fast and Furios prosper.

And by this I don't mean I want Ripley, let her be dead or her clone happily "married" to Call.  

@ali81

An interesting perception of Shaw. For me Noomi "got" her. I have met people whose incorruptible faith is a tool they have acquired to make sense of their early life loss and bereavement. She was perfectly "set up" to counterbalance the vainglorious attempt for eternal life of Peter Weyland and through her indomitable will power to survive and find her answers and healing grace the perfect foil to act as an emotional catalyst for David in the next film. 

Daniels was a highly nuanced performance from Katherine in the first act and shows Ridleys ability to put "normal" people into science fiction and make it relatable. However she was asked to be entirely stupid and disinterested in the Engineers in the second act and Sigourney Weaver in the third act which was not her fault but the structure chosen to get dental features in the movie. The one character above all others who was stereotypical and entirely disengaging was the Xenomorph, indeed the ferocity of the critters at the end of the first act made it look ready for an old peoples home.     

the issue with Shaw is the character itself. now I like Noomi Rapace and have enjoyed most films shes been in but I think she got the character wrong aswell as the character not being well written for the role she was meant to play. I don't think anyone really understood what the character was to stand for and include an awful accent by Rapace and it was always gna be hit or miss. its such a wasted and missed opportunity imo. she was a fresh character. her reasoning and purpose to keep going stemmed from her faith in her religious beliefs which as the trilogy went on, meeting her makers etc, couldv opened a lot of doors. saying that, I believe the fate of Shaw we saw I believe was always going to be the intended fate. I fear the idea was for Shaw to be the mother and another character to be the one to come along and fight for justice for what happened to her and I have this horrible, horrible feeling that is that AWFUL, DROLE, BORING Daniels character. I think we have to look at the casting in these 2 films as id say at most 2 characters per film have come out with any positivity so far. Rapace wasn't right for Shaw and Waterston couldn't be more out of depth though I am saying this having seen her for the first time and don't like what I see in this role. it does take good writing but its the actor who brings a character to life and if the actor doesn't understand the character or has been cast in a role their not up to, it will show up in the movie and that's exactly what we got in both films which is why the characters get roasted so much.

saying this the biggest mis-cast for me was Theron. how got would she be as Daniels?

Weyland-Yutani after Alien 3

So Mr Space Jockey how do you explain the Height Difference again?

And what is that up your Sleeve?

I call it Black Goo on a Stick, for getting up close and personnel!

They thought having a Crazy Mad Robot was bad enough in Alien Covenant!  You have-not seen the Effect on the last Returning Engineer after discovering all his Brothers and Sisters have been Exterminated....

When you meet some synthetic (David) and find out that he bombarded Planet 4

Double post....

THEN OF COURSE, JONESY'S PART AI, SO WE HAVE TO GET A BLADERUNNER TO DEAL WITH HIM.......

...AND FINALLY, TO TIE THE WHOLE THING INTO THE BACK, REVERSE, REAR END OF ALIEN, WE'LL SEE JONESY BIRTHED FROM THE MOTHER-FREAKIN' SPACE JOCKEY!

TRUST ME FASSY, I'VE GOT THE WHOLE THING MAPPED OUT...AT LEAST SIX MOVIES. NO SHIT, IT'LL BE EPIC, MAN, PEOPLE ARE GONNA F****N' LOVE IT!