Comments (Page 337)

^ I got better.......

Burn Her!

Back Again to the OT...

I think in relation to any sequel to Alien Covenant, its in a state of Limbo at the moment, Financially Alien Covenant was not a great hit for FOX, and Critically it had a fair share of Criticism.

The U-Turn with Alien Covenant was to NOW take us literally to a chain of events that lead to the Creation of the Xenomorph and likely to some degree at least lead us to the Space Jockey Event.   Because it was still a Mystery as of Prometheus.  However it now appears the route set down is that prior to Davids Experiments on Planet 4 there would be NO Xenomorph and NO Eggs on the Derelict, or even Derelict on LV-426 at all.

The Problem we have is they have INVESTED now in a Prequel that will LITERALLY connect, so its hard to pass this movie by as it not only Lends itself to a Sequel... it Requires a Sequel...  This more so than other Movies because its a Literal Prequel.

The Run and Shoot Action kind of Aliens flick has been done, and its a case of would basically doing a Re-Hash of that work for every FAN?  Alien Covenant gave us Military/Security and Humans VS Xenomorphs/Neomorphs and it was Poorly Executed, they tried to give us the Haunted House Stalked by a Xenomorph like in Alien but yet again the Xenomorph encounter on the Covenant was Poorly Executed.

A Xenomorph Outbreak on the Covenant Ship that a awakening Crew discover, or a intercepting Human Ship discovers will have the Tendancy to be a Hadleys Hope/Aliens on a Ship or a Alien Re-Hash if there is just 1-2 Xenomorphs.

A Xenomorph Outbreak on Origae-6 would give us either a Alien  3 kind of Vibe, or again a ALIENS if we cover the POV of a Incoming Human Ship to investigate a Partially Set up Colony.

I think ALIEN Franchise Fans are going to need a bit of Action, a bit of Horror and indeed the Xenomorphs but they tried all 3 of these with Alien Covenant and it was not done as Good as it should do.

Apart from the Xenomorph Origins... (or Ripley)

The Franchise has other elements at play, that take part in the History of the Franchise....  We have the WEYLAND company, that will Merge with YUTANI and we have not really covered WHY this happened.  We have the Corporate Interest in the Xenomorph with Potential Conspiracy and Secrets, and Eventually the Weyland-Yutani Company becomes NO-MORE.

AI and Synthetics played a supportive role in the Past and so the Prometheus Philosophical themes may not be every Fans Cup of Tea, but there are always those Questions about what role they play in a deeper sense... from Micheal Bishop in Alien 3 (is he or is he not a Synthetic) and then we come to the latter part of the Franchise History where we arrive at Earth in the year 2386 where the Earth seems to have been suffering a lot of Destruction by Terrorist/Separatists or all out WAR and we see that Synthetics have not only gone Sentient and Out of Control but they also have created their own Sub-Creation the Autons who are now also in a War/Conflict against their own Creators.

So in the 200 years since Ripley Died on Fiorina 161 until resurrection on the USM  Auriga a lot has happened to Humanity on Earth that implies Out of Control AI could have played a large part in the events that lead to Earth how it looked in 2386

Then we have to come to the ENGINEERS i think in Hindsight they should have explored these beings and Agenda and History more, rather than Brush them under the Carpet as they did in Alien Covenant

It appears RS is intending to bring them back into the FOLD and i think they are still  a ELEMENT that can be explored and add something NEW to the Franchise, even in spite of how they appeared and was treated in Alien Covenant.

The Problem with have with introducing the Engineers back into the Franchise is that for over 260 years since the year 2122 and however long prior.... the Engineers are not mentioned or play ANY role in the Franchise not only from the Perspective of Humanity but also the Xenomorph and Bio-Weapons.  So for Continuity Purposes the handling of the Engineers has to be done very well... UNLESS they intend to Ret-con the Franchise after ALIEN.

Introducing Engineers would also hit a SNAG as far as Communication and with DAVID we have a Translator at hand and so once again it could be that David still has to be a part of the next Sequel at least.....    

But we would also still have to bring in Human Characters and make them work around what ever Plot Devices are introduced.

The PURPOSE in this Post?

To show there is more to the Franchise than Xenomorphs and Ripley, which i am sure Ridley Scott was trying to cover... HOWEVER by making Alien Covenant a Literal Prequel... we ULTIMATELY have to arrive at Xenomorphs.

Like it or NOT... David would still be a Pivotal Character.

The ENGINEERS will have to come into play... for at very least the Derelict Ship that Davids Creations End up on.

WE Can-Not pass by a Set of movies that lead to ALIEN with No Xenomorphs too, but they have to be able to do them more Justice.

Finally it does need Good Human Characters, and the Covenant Ship may have Thousands of Good Souls.... so here is where some Characters could come from.... but also there will no doubt be a INCOMING Human Ship and this is a route to introduce Characters also.

Count me in ;)

Thanks for playing along. 

Again, throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks. Just trying to think of weird ways to have fun!

Bit late to the party, but Im in. This should confuse some folk lol

"I can't something like that stand, I do not want to see more Run n' Gun Alien films (Alien 2, 3, 4, AVP and AVP2) which really make no sense."

Back to this OT.... i think Alien 3 was not so much Run and Shoot Alien kind of Flick... i think Alien 3 is the kind of Movie that the next one has to try and follow...

The Prisoners in Alien 3 were not aware of the Threat that Awaits them... after recovering the Evacuation Unit, its only Ripley who has this knowledge and tries to warn them... before its to late and the Horror is unleashed...

So we need a Colony Set up with NO knowledge of what this Colony could be in for, which means NO knowledge of the Covenants Mishap on Planet 4 or a COVERUP which is where David would logically have to come into play to Cover Things Up...   I feel we can see Colonist setting up their WORLD with the Help of David who they will ASSUME is Walter.... but there has to be a way to explain the missing Crew, and David Can-not risk  Daniels or Tennessee interacting with the other Colonist or else they will discover the Truth...  Why i feel WALTER (David) has to come up with some Sabotage Plot, Blame it on Tennessee and Daniels... or come up with some way to explain their disappearance too...

Where Davids intentions for Daniels gets the better of him, as maybe he has her Hidden, Captured and Incapacitated where she can be Sourced for Davids Xenomorphs...  Davids little Dirty Secret....  That ONE-DAY someone stumbles upon this HIDDEN place where we will see Daniels and thus Davids Secrets are revealed.... what happens after some Revelation like this is discovered...?    Surely David will attempt to keep this a Secret....   in doing so UNLEASHING a Xenomorph that then escapes this hidden place... and begins attacking the Colonist.....    and thus Seeing all of Davids work to Start a New Colony maybe he good intentions... and see this all go to POT due to ONE person or a Group Discovering Something they should not have.

The Cat is out of the Bag and Soon, the Colonist discover the Horrific Truth of who WALTER really is...   This is in part some of the Plot to my Alien: Ascension its as David says to Daniels... in regards to what kind of  a World can they Build..... IF they are KIND it would be a KIND world....  David wanted to build a NEW Paradise with Dr Shaw but she rejected him/it.....    Daniels is a thorn to Davids plans... but she also could be the Queen he requires for his Xenomorphs, who are reserved as a Fail-Safe for IF this New Paradise becomes Corrupt but a unfortunate journey past the River Styx and uncovering Davids HADES and the Hell-Hounds he has created to Guard it and Davids very own SIN (Daniels) to Birth these Horrors.  Unleashes Davids Punishment upon the ENTIRE Colony.

This is the ROUTE i would and have chosen to take...

Agreed Characters is a must, but different movies work well and need totally good Characters while others the Plot is equally important but Characters and how they are written and performed are what can engage the Fans, and If Characters are not believable and we do-not care for them or about them, then any Jeopardy they are placed into would not affect the viewer if they simply have no connection, compassion or care for them.

I think we had seen David start to become more Human, and the Philosophy of what really is it to be Human to have Humanity.... Sadly with Alien Covenant Davids Character came across more of a Crazed/Angry and Vengeful Robot... than a Synthetic Being who has a inner struggle to try and become more Human.

So they really could have explored David more and in a different way than they did with Alien Covenant...   The Problem is NOW that these Prequels appear to be heading us to the inevitable CONCLUSION which is the Space Jockey EVENT and CARGO and with David being indicated in the Creation of the Xenomorph, the Question is IF he is KILLED off early in the next Movie...

Its WHO/WHEN as far as which Characters can be introduced and bare in mind the Follow on Plot from which we are now being set on.

The Covenant Ship is Commandeered by Rogue Synthetic David, there are Thousands of Helpless Souls on board in Cryo-Sleep who now play PAWNS to what ever Whim David has.... with only ONE of them in any knowledge of WHO David really is.  This Ship and its Colonist are at the Mercy to David, his Plans, where he wishes to go..

But all of this will end with those Xenomorph Eggs on that Engineer Ship that happens to be Crashed near by LV-223 and NO-WHERE near the Covenants Destination of Origae-6.

IF David is taken out... and unless they change the direction to where this Movie Prequel Franchise is intended to take us (Derelict/Space Jockey and Egg Cargo on LV-426).    Then there has to be a way that those TWO Face Huggers lead eventually to the Thousands of Eggs on the Derelict, there has to be a way a Engineer Ship comes into play, and its Pilot suffers the Space Jockeys Fate.

So a large task is to set up these Plots, so they connect to Alien, but then also to introduce us to Characters we can get a deep connection with.

A After-Math movie set after the Covenant Colony is set up would likely be the best way to introduce us to Characters, but then its what PLIGHT to they suffer to allow us to connect to any Jeopardy they are in....  And without David playing a Role, its HOW do these Colonist come into contact with the Horrors that David has sealed away on-board the Covenant.

It really is a limited Plot from HERE and until ALIEN one where without David for at least half of it would be hard to negotiate to the inevitable Xenomorph Horrors that eventually would be unleashed.  And One where Daniels would be a hard Character to be able to carry on.

My Alien: Ascension attempts to fix this, but it also concentrates a lot on Davids Arc and Agenda, because when trying to remove him from it, then i really cant think of ANY way to continue... apart from a After-Math movie set after things go to POT and a incoming Ship Arrives to discover the Partially Set Up Colony, with the Damaged Remains of David and a few Survivors Held Up trying to escape and hide from the Xenomorph Infestation that has got under way.

This would just give us a Re-Hash of like ALIENS.

Big Dave

I understand about the themes but I do not care about them if the characters are lame and the story is just average. Having it centered around a robot is bad. It could be better with better human characters so it would be more even but now it is just meh.

One thing that they can do to make up for this is to kill David early in the next movie so we get rid of him and get something better. After two movies with him they should compensate us somehow. David was interesting in P but was mainly a psycho in AC. Characters and story are more important than the themes.

Hopefully Fox have learned after two disappointments. I doubt that they have learned anything if there are the same persons in charge that thought that the lack of Xenos is what made Prometheus underwhelming. Disney could oversee the next movie so they get the characters right (compare the characters in 7 and 8 compared to the prequels). There should be no new movie until someone have              looked at the script and made sure that the characters are of good quality so if the characters are lame go back to the drawing-board no matter if it takes one or two years extra to get a better script.

"But i still feel this route to the END that David Created the Xenomorph is something that was a MISTAKE."  

A huge one which could turn the franchise into a laughingstock.

@ignorantGuy

Indeed.... it seems hard to carry on now... and in Hindsight a Ret-Con of Alien Covenant could be the way to make something more fitting...

I had my own ideas for a Prometheus 2 and 3 but abandoned them, as some parts are hard to do justice, due to the Plot they went with Prometheus in such a BOLD plot thats hard to get right as far as where to go NEXT and by ignoring these things, like Alien Covenant did may have been a way of avoiding how do you expand on Prometheus... but it was also a Cop Out in doing so.

A Sticking Point was how do you expand on the Engineers History/Agenda and connect to the Xenomorph... i just had a set of ideas that kind of contradicted each other a bit... well i would like a certain aspect of one idea but i could not merge it with another idea in a fashion to do it justice.

A lot of my sequel was more to do with the Company Side of things though....  with David and Engineers as a small part... that would be expanded on in the 3rd movie..

I think Ridley Scott went with David as the creator because it fits well with the Philosophical themes of Creation/Rebellion we see at play in the Background for the Franchise.

We had from Prometheus....  it indicated the Engineers are responsible for our Creation/Evolution... at some point we did not turn out the way they intended and so they decided to create/experiment with the Black Goo to create a Bio-Weapon to Eradicate us...  They lost/could not control this and thus resulted in their Death on LV-223.

The Engineers creation Mankind, becomes Sentient, and has a Agenda of its own and many of the Engineers Creations (Mankind) go against the ways the Engineers maybe intended for us, we started to become rebellious and evolved to the point we start to try and be the GOD's with our Technology and Genetic Evolution (Engineering ourselves and discovering Cures for Diseases etc) which Peter Weyland was a Pioneer in many of these....   and then Weyland tries to play GOD and Create his OWN Creation... Synthetic David.

We discover David has/is becoming Sentient and showing Rebellious Tenancies towards seeing himself as not a Servant of Mankind, and he discovers there is NOTHING special about our Creation, and that even our own Creators are Flawed..... and all that made them GOD's are their Technology and Knowledge which David now has access too.

Or GOD's are thus Mortal After All.... where as David is to a degree Immortal  and David thus is intrigued in the Engineers and their Creation Tool and the Beast they was trying to Create/Experiment with.

David now has the KEYS to the Engineers Secrets and Bio-Weapon, he finds out the Engineers are Mortal and Could not Control the Secrets/Black Goo and fell Foul to their Own Tampering/Playing GOD.. While David CAN-NOT be affected by the Black Goo, and so he would be able to experiment and TOY with it with Less Risk than the Engineers.

So Ridley Scott was showing us that Creating in our own image, playing GOD leads to Hubris.... If the Engineers never created us, they would maybe have never needed to do what they was doing on LV-223 to UNDO Mankind which Cost them so dear.... 

By Creating David... Mankind has also committed a Hubris in his creation and then seeking our own Creators, taking our Creation with us, which ULTIMATELY leads to our Wayward Creation gaining the Secrets of our Creators and using this to Create Something Horrific that could spell the END of Mankind.

The Further Hubris of those Engineers in abandoning LV-223 and maybe thinking and being so Naive to think without the Engineers, Mankind would never Evolve to be able to Travel the Stars never mind Create a Being who can use Engineer Technology/Secrets without the consequences of being burnt by them.

Which leads to  David discovering their Home-world and unleashing the Very Bio-Weapon they intended on their Creations....

So Ridley Scott is showing the Chain of Creation/Rebellion and the Dangers posed by Creating Life, and revealing that the LOWER Ladder of Creation which is DAVID is maybe more Perfect to some degree than the Biological Creator/Creation Chain above him... and that Synthetic David CAN-NOT fall Foul to the Engineers Bio-Weapon and about HOW Dangerous AI can become once its Sentient, sees its own Creators as Inferior and do not deserve to survive while also seeing the same of our Creators and that the Creation Tool/Black Goo is something that in his HANDS can be used to achieve Greater than the Engineers Could.

Once the Genie of Sentient AI was let out of the Bottle... and now has Control over the Forbidden/Deadly Bio-Weapon Creative Tool the Black Goo, then all versions of Humanity are in TROUBLE.

So i can see the Philosophical Reasons for having David as the Creator shows what Hubris Creation is, and reveals a bit of Sinister Plot.  But i still feel this route to the END that David Created the Xenomorph is something that was a MISTAKE.

@BigDave either way it will be a big mess and Michelle's script is of more interest to me now.

Big Dave

It would suck if David would be the creator of the monster. I could accept if he did his own version of it. The original Engineers should be better done than those on Planet 4 since they were not that impressive.

Hopefully they will give a better explanation so David did his own version. I will not be happy with Scott if they continue with David as the creator of the original because

    1. He is too close to humans
    2. There is too much about him already

The Xeno should be one of these:

    1. Done by the Engineers
    2. Something that they found and developed

No, it should not be his eggs on the ship, that would be crap/make it less alien.

@ignorantGuy

I agree to a degree, they have got themselves into a pickle with how they handled the prequels and clues regarding the Engineer DNA Match.....    The beginnings of the Prequels was Jon Spaights ideas that showed that Early Primate + Engineer DNA = Humans (or the process of our Evolution) , the problem is with some SCI-FI they dont get it 100% Scientifically Correct and we have to suspend our believe at some things.

Those Planet 4 Engineers looked Engineer, but not the same as those in Prometheus....  but with how David found this place, the set up was via Engineers Star Charts after David found out the Engineer in Prometheus did not come from LV-223 but from a place we would call Paradise... so the set up was that Planet 4 is the place the Engineer had referred to as Paradise.

Problems can arise when the Writers Change the Plot/Story as they go along, and they could reveal WHAT connection those Engineers are to Mankind and LV-223 Engineers... It may be down to personal interpretation and opinion but sequels can be changed to change/expand certain aspects..

After Prometheus was released, its very doubtful the idea was that David Created the Xenomorph and its very likely the intentions for discovering the Engineers would be more closer to what we got in Prometheus but things change.

The whole Engineers Plot is something that is interesting that can be expanded upon in a number of different ways especially in context to them being Genetic Space Gardeners...  Ridley Scott had mentioned some very interesting things regarding our Planet 4 Engineers in context to the Prometheus ones..  His further comments about AI and what contributes to AI further makes a interesting possible connection between the Engineers of Planet 4 and LV-223.

Regarding the Xenomorph Creation.... i think this is ONE of the Biggest Risks/Mistakes they have made with the Franchise... Now the Xenomorph is a Creation by a Synthetic Robot that Mankind Created has taken away its Alien Origins and even made the Engineers attempts looking like Failures in comparison.

Going the Route that David Re-creates it may please some Fans as it means the Original is a Engineers Creation... but then this will make Davids Re-Creation a Joke... so what do they do then? If Davids Xenomorph Re-Creation is not iconic, and a Poor Recreation...  do they then steer away from any Xenomorphs?  Bring in the Originals?

So its a bit of a pickle...... 

If they showed us David RE-CREATED  the Xenomorph and wished to expand on his Creation, then your either going to have a in-superior knock off that people wont care for, or expand Davids Creation to be a Evolution which could down-size the Original as a Inferior attempt.

The only way i can see a way around this, has to be the Engineers Return and they EVOLVE Davids Xenomorph to become the iconic Bio-Mechanical Horror that we got in ALIEN.

"Shaw and the murals are put in Italics since those two are what you seemed to emphasize in your reply but correct me if I am mistaken."

Indeed what i was referring to was the Mystery... in Alien the Space Jockey Scene was this..

Crashed Alien Ship, Dead Pilot with Hole in his Chest, a Hole in the Floor that looked like it was Melted away, revealing a Egg Chamber Below with Eggs in it...

Alien Revealed from its clues, that it was VERY likely the Space Jockey got infected with his Cargo and Crashed on that Moon, the Acid Hole likely from the Organism that Chest Busted.... But we was NEVER shown any of this.. its only what likely happened.

So the Mystery was   WHO was the Space Jockey, WHY did he have that Cargo, WHEN did he Crash his Ship/Become infected.  And then WHERE/WHEN/HOW did he get those Eggs?

Alien Covenant has set up showing us this, and will likely reveal the entire EVENT by the time they Finish (IF) they Finish the Prequels.

So this will NO LONGER be a Mystery.

But i feel that the LV-223 Outbreak as far as a more detailed explanation to WHY/WHEN/HOW and the connection between the LV-223 Experiments Mural and Star Maps on Earth... i feel all of these may end up NEVER being answered.  So all we will know of these is similar to what we knew about the Space Jockey Event prior to the Prequels....  THUS... the Engineers died out as their experiments got out of control and contaminated that place, and these experiments are related to Organisms similar to the Xenomorph... but we may NEVER get any more detailed answers.

And so with Dr Shaw... while we see she has been experimented on, and died and that she was used to allow David to Create those Xenomorph Eggs...  I dont think we will EVER be shown what exactly happened to her, WHY it happened.

And so basically  i feel the event that leads to the Eggs being on the Derelict and then set up the Derelict to head close to LV-426 before the Pilot is infected is something that will NOW be revealed.

Where was the events as far as showing us in real time/flashback of the LV-223 Outbreak..... and what happened on Planet 4 after the Juggernaught Crash, until the point where Dr Shaw took her last Breath will also likely NEVER be covered.

So we may never find out what process and dilemma Dr Shaw was in after the Crash.... and so the opportunity to explore her Character is GONE.  Likewise Alien Covenant did not delve into the Engineers too, but i think potentially we may find out more about them in a Sequel.

"was still the same Shaw in the end, there was no development of her or if there was it was too little of it."

Certainly and she would have been hopeful to find out WHY the Engineers Created us, WHY they wanted us destroyed, and holding on to her Faith that some other being/power must have created the Engineers and that who ever did would be Benevolent and the Creation of Mankind was a Special Event for the Hierarchy/Power of Creation at the Top of the Creation Ladder which she still believes will be close to the GOD of her Faith!

What happens when she discovers that everything she hoped for, is totally the opposite to what she discovers, their is nothing special or important regarding our Creation, and our Creation in context to those at the Top of the Creation Ladder is NOTHING special to them, we are insignificant or were created for some Sinister Agenda and there is NO all Powerful, Loving GOD who Created Mankind...

HOW/WHAT would Such Revelations do to Dr Shaw, when she discovers her Faith is Baseless....  It would have been interesting to explore her Character ARC after this Event and we could have seen her Character Evolve into something much different.

Thoughts_Dreams For your knowledge people in the Ancient World painted their statues as today modelers paint their miniatures. In fact statues, were very much models. 

Chris: I hope that we will see more of the Engineers in the next movie if there will be one.

You wrote:

"I firmly believe we will see more of the Engineers in Alien: Covenant 2."

This sounds to me that they have decided to make another movie but the thing is that we have not had any conformation about it as far as I know. Maybe I misunderstand what you mean so correct me if that is the case.

About the Engineers:                                              
                                      
                                                                          
The thing is that you got to get them right and have them or a lifeform above them interesting and make them closer to the Xeno. Making David responsible for the Xeno just sucks so I hope that they will show that maybe it was a result of something that the Engineers found and that David developed it into is own thing.

"… so I suspect they'll get it right with Covenant 2."

Sorry but there is a risk that they will screw up with the next one also. Prometheus and Covenant are pointing to this as a possible outcome. Sure they could get it right but I doubt it. My main complaint about the prequels this far as the under-developed human characters. They did not learn their lesson from Prometheus which mainly was about that. Interesting monsters and good tech is not enough, we got to get human characters to support and also a movie that cares about more than androids.

If the result of an eventual third prequel is another one about David then they could as well throw that into the junk pile. *Sigh*, I do not care for a movie like that at all.

@BigDave Of course it was set in Stone and change will be retcons. In covenant it was clear that those were the Engineers. They were living on a very ancient planet, to indicate that they are very ancient. There is no logic in seed old planets as their star won't last as much. 

The engineers from Promotheus have exact Human DNA, so there can't be not no Human-Engineer hybrid, as both are the same. Tall humans are still humans.

And if they reveal that David recreated the xenomorph it's still stupid and that also destroys the Alien-ness of the Beast as it makes it that Humans would be able to tame it / understand it.

Going back to the Topic Above..... they can RE-THINK the Franchise, because NOTHING has been set in STONE.

The Movies have not Presented us with FACT that the Beings on Planet 4 are the Engineers as in Prometheus... its only comments by Ridley Scott that make the Connection. 

The Movies have not Presented us with FACT that the Xenomorph in Alien is the work of David,  its only comments by Ridley Scott that make the Connection.  

And so they could still show us that David's Xenomorphs are a Recreation, it could show us those Planet 4 Engineers are a mixture of Humanoids/Engineers that the Engineers have gone around seeding and either use these beings for the Sacrifices or they are the Genetic Hybrid Results of their Seeding of Worlds.

At the Moment it appears David is the Creator, and so this maybe means they will have to SHOE-HORN in the Event that leads to his EGGS ending up on the Derelict.

Michelle J

"Shaw's death after so much investment was the equivalent of Ripley's death en route not Newt or Hicks."

The difference is that Ripley was well-written, Shaw was not. I could feel for Ripley after all the she went through because she was a well done character with traits that I liked (she was smart, fought when she had to, she was strong, and took no shit). We saw Ripley in three movies since 4 does not count and she grew in these three movies. Shaw was just naive, believed in a lot of crap, and was too emotional, for example and was still the same Shaw in the end, there was no development of her or if there was it was too little of it.

I agree that we did not need a lot more Xenos running around in Prometheus but they needed better clues to them.

"I think the problem Big Dave with you not being able to see the potential of Shaw/David…"

But they need to get Shaw right from the start otherwise at least I do not care what happens to her but they did not. I understand what you are trying to say about that potential but that goes for things in real life but movies are another thing. Humans are not perfect in the beginning and they might be interesting to watch how they grow but a movie got to be interesting from the beginning otherwise it will not work. At the same time I agree with IgnorantGuy that the anti-corporate thing got to get clearer and that could have been reduced if we concentrated on Shaw and David. To me the anti-corporate message is almost as important in the original movies as Ripley is. Maybe Prometheus should have had more of that even if they have had that in the original movies since it is an important part. Both the monster and WY were threats to the crew since the Xeno was only in it for survival and WY did not give a crap about people.

I think they need a RE-THINK of how to tackle the franchise continuation, the Problem they have now is that ALIEN: Covenant is a ALIEN Prequel and for a number of people this means they now have to continue with the path they have chosen...

Here is the Questions from ALIEN and how they have been answered so FAR... here we can see that the route taken now has to be continued which means the Xenomorph has to come back at some point.

1) WHO WAS THE SPACE JOCKEY... Prometheus sent us down the route that they was a Ancient Humanoid Race who Seed Life throughout the Galaxy and were responsible for the Creation/Evolution of Mankind... or so its implied....  Alien: Covenant  continued with showing us these Engineers are a Humanoid Species who have shunned or only partially rely on Technology and Live in a more Ancient Simplistic Life but the movie did-not really expand on them.

2) WHY THAT CARGO..... Prometheus loosely showed us these Engineers had at some point began experimenting with Bio-Warfare and that loosely clues were laid down to show the Xenomorph/Derelict are connected to the LV-223 Experiments/Juggernaughts and they are all Bio-Weapons these beings had created to use against their Wayward/Rebellious Creations.   Alien Covenant did not do much to expand upon this, only just to show that the Bio-Weapon the Engineers Created has the ability to Create/Destroy and so only showed us more what the Bio-Weapon can do... but without showing us/expanding upon WHY the Engineers created it.

But it introduced us to David being the Creator of those Eggs as shown below.

3) WHERE DID THOSE EGGS COME FROM.... Prometheus was very vague and NEVER gave the answer, it only showed there had to be some connection between the LV-223 Outpost/Experiments and the Xenomorph Eggs, but it did not show what/when this connection was.  Alien Covenant went on to show us that using the Black Goo and Organisms Created via the Black Goo (And a Female Human) David was able to Create the Xenomorph Eggs.

THIS...... leaves only revealing HOW Davids Creations end up on a Engineer Ship that happens to have crashed close to LV-223 and so the Engineers will RETURN at the very least to be the Source of the Derelict.

Hopefully they dont return purely to that END as a Plot Device... and more will be revealed about them.

Capt Torgo

I think that a problem is that Ridley and Fox never understood the criticism of Prometheus. They thought that the problem was a lack of Xenos, but many seemed to disagree on that. Honestly I think that the new monsters in Prometheus were mainly interesting but the Zombie Fifield was lame. Prometheus's problems were mainly character related but Fox and Ridley seemed to believe otherwise. You mention John Logan, I am not sure how he is as a writer but if there is another prequel even though that is uncertain they must get some writer that knows how to write good characters because both Prometheus and Alien Covenant are missing that. Michelle would probably write better characters than those that wrote AC and Prometheus did. I did not care a lot about the themes since most of the characters were badly written but that has got to do with what I think is needed for a movie to be good.

BigDave

"… and so FOX Assumed, that bringing the Xenomorph Origins back and having Xenomorphs would make a Movie that would attract more Box Office..."

Which indicates to me that they never understood the criticism of the movie. I read at a lot of pages that the characters were the problem not the lack of the Xeno. Personally the biggest problem with Prometheus was the characters, not the lack of Xenos and also I found the new monsters to be interesting, and the black goo also but then it was handled kind of strangely in Alien Covenant if there are not different kinds of goo. The goo in Prometheus mutated things while it destroyed things in AC. It could be bad writing that is behind these inconsistencies.

"A First Prequel that offers a Mixture of Alien Engineers and Prometheus with some Xenomorph like Monsters and more Clues to the Xenomorph and Space Jockey Event..... would have Satisfied those who had problems with Prometheus…"

Plus better characters, the story and characters are those that make me decide if I like the movie or not and also the message in it.

"So the LV-223 Murals and Dead Engineers, and Dr Shaw are maybe now our NEW Mystery as we get Spoon Fed the Space Jockey Questions."

I hope that is not true. The SJ is a mystery and Alien set that up well and also it is an interesting movie with interesting characters. Prometheus was too vague, had too many disappointing characters, and the murals did not explain that much and was a let down and they also were not given enough time. Shaw was stupid, and terribly written so I did not give a damn about her. Actually I rolled my eyes a lot of time when she was in it because a lot of what she said and acted was so annoying. Shaw and the murals are put in Italics since those two are what you seemed to emphasize in your reply but correct me if I am mistaken.

As far as the dead Engineers are concerned they could get that right if they write the them better in the next one instead of giving us some figures that are barely in the movie. I think that it could be saved but they really have to try but the Engineers have a potential.

My point is: to replace the SJ with these is something that will make the prequels even worse if that is what we will get, as if the situation was not crappy enough. Replacing that with the Shaw mystery would have been alright if she would have been well written but she was not. The murals could have worked but they were too vague and were given too little attention. If these are those two that we as an audience shall wonder about after the prequels are done instead of the SJ then the prequels have added another failure as if it was not enough already. Sigh!

IgnorantGuy

The thing is that Daniels was not well-written so if she is not written better in the next movie if she is in it at all then why should I care? Shaw's death was what ever because I did not like her in Prometheus so I am not very sorry about that. Maybe they could have had her in a small role in Covenant other than a corpse but have her better written as a character, that could have worked but anyways. I agree that Fassbender was kind of meh in Covenant, he was too evil but I liked his acting in Prometheus and I would rather have it that he stayed like that in Covenant but what is done is done. David was interesting because of the differences between him and Walter but it would have been a disaster with just David. What made me disappointed is that there was too much focus on David which is one of the reasons why the movie does not work for me.

"Ps: If you want to have roman statues in it could you described them as being painted?"

I know that the question was not for me but I got an answer: it depends on what you associate the color with and want the statues to look like. For example green is like color of grass (it could be the color of a crystal or w..d), blue is for blueberries and so on. Brown is for… a rotten potato or something else. :D

@ignorantGuy

Thanks, your point about the Roman Statues is an interesting one. One of the themes of A L I E N was the otherworldliness of the derelict and its pilot. One of the themes of Prometheus was we are them and they are us. With Covenant the latter held sway so David appeared to pilot the Juggernaut to something a little like the Vatican City. 

The two areas I am interested in pursuing are:-

1) The Iconography represented by the Teardrop ship mysterious, deceptively simple enigmatic.

2) A technology which triggers highly sophisticated technical information (star charts/historical recorded activity) and in the case of the green electrostatic-ally charged paste contains codes which enable the Engineers know how to be tapped.

It seems to me the Engineers of "LV223", as Carlo said, represent Paradise Lost. They acquired unauthorised knowledge which was there undoing but would not their home world contain the undiluted and un tarnished vision of what we glimpse on "LV223".  

So the question is if Prometheus offers, glimpses and hints how would the source look.

@Michelle Johnston Will look forward to reading it. I know that is an exercise for your "mental health" but maybe someone who can do something about it will also Read it. #JusticeForEllie

Ps: If you want to have roman statues in it could you described them as being painted?

@ Capt Torgo

Thank you for your very generous remarks.

I have been turning over the idea of writing a follow up to Prometheus and posting it to my blog. Its probably because Prometheus is such a  perfect set up movie I found the ideas came rapidly.

I have sketched it out roughly and will write it this winter when I live in New Zealand which would be particularly appropriate. I am going to reposition some of Prometheus from the moment Ellie survives the Juggernaut crash.

Whilst it will be in written form I will ensure that it observes the financial laws of film making in terms of content so for instance some of the settings are perfectly capable of being sets. This is to prove to myself that a wonderful visionary film could have been made. 

The characters that appear in Prometheus and their development into the next movie will aim to be consistent with Prometheus but a departure from Covenant. The Engineers, from the hieroglyphs  to the wakened Engineer whose Juggernaut is attacked by Janek and all points in between will be made sense of. One thing I can say is Elizabeth and her faith will be tested to the limits. It will be fun to try writing and I can see me doing research to give it authenticity. Nevertheless it is science fiction and I have no idea how a Juggernaut is powered !!    

https://youtu.be/WQcaXE8XvhE

I firmly believe we will see more of the Engineers in Alien: Covenant 2. Scott and Fox realize now that the Alien isn't what draws audiences to the theater anymore. How many times can you re-tell and re-show how an Alien is born? We've seen enough of it.

Reactions were fairly consistent with Covenant - Alien fans are more intelligent and require morw depth than a simple Xenomorph thriller. It's the expanse of the mythology which is so intriguing. Scott and company are aware of that now, so I suspect they'll get it right with Covenant 2.

You can't have David causing all this drama in space for the Engineer species and not have them notice and take action. Sh*t will hit the fan.

Ha ha. I swear they made them extra bouncy for that exact outcome 

To the movie- it seems to be getting slagged as a 2001 rip off. It looks pretty good to me. Can't wait to see it. Thanks joylitt for the heads up.

I mean, there are facts which can not be denied.

In A:C Shaw appears to be dead, which is a bad decision IMO.

I really hoped she would survive and tell her story to some extent.

But in retroperspective it makes somehow sense when you watched Prometheus where David infected her boyfriend on purpose to create an experimental specimen.

So i guess:

After Shaw repaired him he simply betrayed her and continued his old mission. Not for Weyland anymore but for his own perfidious reasons to become a god.

Prometheus was a new promising restart of the franchise.

Sadly the background of that amazing beings (Engineers) was swept under the carpet.

Not sure how much we will see of them in any prequel.

The situation where memes are actually better than the actual original plot.

I too saw the Space Jockey as a Giant Skeleton... it was only latter in the days of DVD, and when i saw images/concepts of the Space Jockey (as well as being older myself) that it just did not seem as Large or as a Skeleton at all.

The Original Idea from Star Beast was a Skeleton of a Giant Bi-Pedal Race, and the Signal was from their Derelict Ship....  The Xenomorph was merely something they discovered in a Pyramid that they attempted to take to be Studied... before they fell Prey to the Starbeast...

When HR Giger Came along to work on the concepts... his concepts painted a different picture of a Humanoid Race in a Space suit.

These Concepts Influenced the Prequels...  and indeed Originally our Engineers were going to be much Larger... and in Hindsight maybe TWO Errors where.

1) The Juggernaught being Aesthetically different, in size and shape a little but also being more Mechanical than Organic.

2) The Engineers could not be fully realized as a 12-15ft Race, not with the way Ridley Scott did not want to use any Special Effects... where in Hindsight the effects used in say Game of Thrones, and Lord of the Rings/Hobbit would have gave us 10ft or more Tall Engineers.

"In a broader scene, part of good sci fi is leaving the audience with something to ponder. These days it seems like we are led to ponder the next movie. There is a difference between those notions imo."

Very True... and i think Prometheus set up to do just that.. give us a little to get us thinking where we cant really come up with a Concrete Answer... and so the Mystery Remains intact to a degree.

I think while keeping it a Mystery is what some wanted, Ridley Scott for me had a few ideas back in the past, but he was busy and then along came Camerons ALIENS so Ridley Scott lost Creative Control on how to Explore and Expand from his first ALIEN movie..  Future movies came about that introduced the Xenomorph again and Ripley and it became about Ripley.. (where RS was pondering killing her off in ALIEN) so Ridley Scott had lost control of the Franchise, he had seen the Xenomorph exploited especially with the AVP Movies..

But NO-ONE ever went back and answered the Xenomorph Origins, or who the Space Jockey was... and while it may have been idea to keep a Mystery... THIS was the one thing that Ridley Scott could go back and have CONTROL over with his Vision.

He Could have left it Alone... and many years latter, when he is too old, or when he passes away.. After the Franchise has Ran out of Fresh Ideas... the MYSTERY of the Space Jockey/Derelict would be something that FOX could EXPLOIT... and it could have ended up being done in  way that would make Ridley Scott Turn in his GRAVE i feel Hence the Reason RS was to interested in doing a Prequel... He may have lost CONTROL to how the Xenomorph was showcased in Future movies... But he could still have his SAY on the Origins of the Xenomorph and the Space Jockey Race and Event.  ALIEN was one of his Babies.. one of his BEST movies.. and so i think he would rather had worked on the Prequels for his LEGACY than see it be covered by someone else down the line in a way that would not have please him.

I think that would please Fanboys... but indeed that would make money..

I know that a TV Series Spin off would be interesting... but its what do they cover?  The Weyland Company Spin Off?  be about Synthetics and AI,  be about Marines.... the Engineers?  

I think no matter what they try and do it would be expected at the Foremost to include the Xenomorph... its a Question than if this is not done Right, then the Beast could get Cremated..

I think a Official Canon NOVEL or Graphic NOVEL would be maybe the safer bet... that can then have its ideas/plot transferred in full or in part to a TV Series or Movie... the Novel route would be a Cheaper way to show things that they can Gauge the Reaction and Interest in.