Comments (Page 342)

I think you hit all the points there. I also thought parts reminded me of a spoiled teen Scream ripoff.  Maybe we couldn't see the fighting since someone thought it would be a great idea to go for the "less is more" route.

Slagging AVPR just never seems to get old.

I think the Ambiguity does hint at potentially TWO meanings for what David had said...

He did use/experiment with Dr Shaw to Perfect his Creation and obtain those Eggs... this is what the Evidence points too...

But on the other hand it appeared he tried to FORCE himself onto her... and i think maybe he had attempted this with Dr Shaw... we can see they had a Relationship and Grown Close... It is likely David Developed more than Platonic Love for Dr Shaw... you can imagine the Shock for Dr Shaw if David attempted to make a move on her... or even then offered that they could be a Partnership and Start a New Paradise... by using her Reproductive System.....  something that she would surely Object to in either case.

@daliens

I can see what you mean, for some though having a movie that now is about a expanded element to show-case that attempting to Sub-Create and having this Creation become Rebellious and then Creating something to eradicate this Creation that got out of hand and THUS they abandoned this Objective.... (Bio-Weapons)  and abandoned Earth has Proved to be a GREAT Hubris to the Engineers, HOW Naive of them to ASSUME left to our own we could NEVER Evolve to the Point of Finding the Engineers.

Not only did we Evolve Technologically once they ABANDONED us, but we also Managed to Travel the Stars and Create our OWN Sub-Creation....  Then for us wanting to MEET our MAKERS we set off to seek what we thought would be their HOME.. only to Find a Place our WOULD-BE Creators had used to Create a Weapon to Destroy us.

Or Hubris for Seeking our Maker, Proved Costly to the Prometheus Crew...  The Engineers Hubris in Abandon this place and Mankind, allowed Mankinds and its CREATION David.. to arrive at this Place of Death....  a Event that allowed David to Discover their is NOTHING Special about Mankind or our Creators... and then leaving David the KEYS to the Engineers Technology and Power.

The only thing left now is the Pattern where David will Face his own HUBRIS at the Hands of his OWN Creation.

This Theme was what RS was interested in.... However as Michelle and Ignorantguy have pointed out there has to be more to this Story as far as Characters who we can attach ourselves too, in order to Engage a lot of people.... Also as a ALIEN Franchise Movie... the Emphasis/Role of the Xenomorph and Engineers has been downgraded in Favor of what appears to be a Megalomaniac Android... There is deeper themes to it than that... but the Execution in Alien Covenant was Flawed.

@Michelle

I agree that discovering what happens to Dr Shaw when she discovers the Truth, and if it puts her Faith into Question, so she realizes there is NOTHING!    We have to ask what would this DO to her?  She has NO Family, NO Partner and then to Find out her Faith is a SHAM... this would have BROKEN Her and it would have been interested to see how she may have reacted.

The name COVENANT could have been used to cover a Agreement Dr Shaw and David had made..... that he breaks... or even he could have a OPTION for her... by suggesting he could maybe FIX her Reproductive Flaws....  Would this be something she would accept?

Its what i thought may happen when we first saw the leaked set photos of Davids Workshop and i saw those Human Baby Skulls....  But ALAS these ended up being Engineers because we had the reveal there was Female Engineers.

So i do think there was so much potential that could have happened, that had to be UNDONE.. due to the Direct Path to Alien they now have chosen.

@ ignorantGuy

Your point about Drama is entirely on the money. Whatever the window dressing or placement sci fi is a story with characters and both need drama. David as the endless bait and twist whose words mean nothing is not drama its a mixture of the predictable and disengaged. To return to Shaw if she healed David and arrived at a Paradise that was hell which led to her moral breakdown you have all three elements lined up in Prometheus on the move with the audience uncertain where it will end creating .... drama . The problem with the Xenomorph is two fold we have not only seen it all before we have seen the reaction to it and failure all before. If that isn't recipe for the law of diminishing returns what is. Contrast that with the enigmatic questioning right to the end of BR2049 which was a journey of discovery.   

daliens And what is your idea of a movie, as " to explore and experiment and create worlds we can only dream about" won't give money from now one to make a movie?

And if everybody else besides David is expandable what drama do you expect? If you have only a villain then what results is only schlock (Jaws 2 and onwards, Halloween 2..., ). And that applies even for the Hannibal Lecter movies and guess who made the worst one, your favourite director who never makes sequels.

In Alien Covenant David was the lead. I don't care if the other characters were not introduced better, they were just stepping stones to get to David. Even Walter. Even the xenomorph. They all had small roles but I did not get the feeling that David is surrounded by a bunch of idiots like in Prometheus. In Prometheus even Peter Weyland was ridiculous,  unlike his intense appearance in Covenant. Shaw was expandable,  I did not feel for her like I don't feel for Daniels. I don't really want to see the xenomorph again too soon, it is really cooked. It was good when Ripley was in the game, they were somehow inseparable. But that story is over. We need a new one now. Not a direct prequel to Alien. But to explore and experiment and create worlds we can only dream about. Lay the xenomorph to rest, it has suffered enough. 

Seen the movie, Also seen ADVENT, remember when David said that he was going to do the same thing to Daniels as he did with Shaw, and in ADVENT he said that Daniels was his queen, so I think David turned Shaw into an egg laying queen.

Going back to the OT...

Ridley Scott is correct its hard to come up with something Original anymore, or that can be done is offer a Fresher Take on already covered concepts...   Where we can take something done before, merge a few of these and attempt to offer a Movie that improves by Effects, Story and Characters/Acting...   Its hard to come up with something very NEW and Unique..

I see why he chose the route for Prometheus, to offer something a bit more Fresh within the Franchise, because Eggs => Face Huggers => Chest Busters => Xenomorphs that then go around Killing Humans.

Has been done a lot in the Franchises... Even a Xenomorphs on Earth would be a Tough thing to do, as you could end up with just another improved AVPR Flick

Ridley Scott mentioned the Beast Could go a Few more Rounds... but you have to Evolve Him... i cant be 100% sure what he meant by that... But certainly when you see the Neomorph's and many of the Alien Franchise Concepts... such as the Ultramorph these are ways to bring a Fresh Alternative the Seen to Death Xenomorph.

I think this may have bee the Original Plan... to introduce over TWO Prometheus Sequels some Fresh Looking related Organisms that may provide clues to HOW the Xenomorph fits or could be created.

But going the route of Alien Covenant that intends to Connect to ALIEN and begin to show us the Xenomorph from the Franchise, is just going to lead to something already seen and done, over and over....  Whats NEXT?

Introducing/Evolving the way Davids Proto-Xenomorph becomes Bio-Mechanical and then we have our Origins Complete.

Regarding the OT

While i think we can make Aesthetically real ish looking Artificial People...

I think in 10-20 years Especially if more was Invested like what Countries spend on Defense, then making in effect a Replica of a Human that looks and feels almost identical to the Touch would be much more advanced/real than the images Shared...

But i think we are a LONG way off getting the Mechanics needed to fit inside such Artificial Persons that conform to our Bone Structure as far as Size, and is able to allow any where near Human Movement.

Even in 20 years i think we would just get a Robot that would walk like a Very Injured Zombie from the Walking Dead.

And so its likely for Functional AI that we would see Creations like Chappie becoming a Reality (If investment is made) within 30-40 years.

We may see them have Silicone like Human Heads to fit in more or Humanoid looking like in I-Robot... but the Mechanical Aspect to be Functional as in Walk and Move and do all Mechanical Functions a Human can, i feel we are a long way off being able to Produce the Mechanics to fit inside a Body that is Physically the same as a Humans.

So i think any Future AI apocalypse would come from Robots more like Chappie (or Terminator T-600) rather than David 8.... as i feel AI could Advance Faster than the Mechanical Aesthetics to match a Human Movement within the confines of our Bio-Logical Skeleton and Muscle Mass.

Certainly does....

I think this is the BIG Question regarding AI once we Open the Genie in the Bottle....  How once they become more Sentient, how would they View Mankind, How would they view the Earth and its Environment.

Would Out of Control AI that becomes Sentient all be United under ONE Cause and Agenda?  Or would Truly Sentient Individual AI Robots or what ever, think independently and lead to Factions and THUS conflict between each other just as Mankind has due to Each Nations difference of Opinions Ranging in Various Subjects.   Religion and Capitalism being TWO of the Main Catalyst for Conflict..

Would these be things that would not appeal or matter to AI, or would similar arise here.....  The I-Robots vs Androids PMSL

But indeed thats a very interesting Question to ask.

I think Batchpool i can kind of see where you are coming from, Prometheus was seen by some as a ALIEN movie or so they expected, but the Non-Alien Fanbase so Casual Viewer would not see it connected to ALIEN as far as Trailers an Marketing because a lot of the Public Associate ALIEN if they saw the Eggs, Xenomorphs, Face Huggers or very similar, or Ripley and Power Loaders and Marines...   so a lot of the Public from the Trailers would not make ANY connection to the Juggernaught and Space Jockey Suit Scene in the Trailers with the Original.  Because in the ALIEN Franchise the Derelict/Space Jockey Scene was so SHORT!  Its why the Producers etc wanted it Cut, and why RS Fought to have it made because he felt those SCENES are what MADE the Movie.

Ok in Prometheus (Trailer) we also had the brief shot of the Mural that was maybe the Biggest Clue this connects to ALIEN i think this shot could be missed by some, but those who saw it would connect it to ALIEN more....  But for the Alien Fans etc   The Mural was something that was VERY connected to ALIEN and it made a lot of Fans Expecting more Xenomorphs or Answers than Prometheus actually was giving.

Ridley Scott and Lindeloff had said the movie was a Sort of Prequel but it would not Directly Connect to ALIEN but it would go off on a separate Path to Explore the SPACE JOCKEY Race its Purpose, History and its connections to Mankind.  They hoped Prometheus had enough clues that drive Fans to see the Xenomorph and LV-223 are CONNECTED but without showing us HOW not in  a Spoon Fed way, so it retained some Mystery.  Because as Lindeloff had said if you go off to Directly make a Prequel, then we know how its going to END and all you are doing is connecting the Dots in a Spoon Fed Fashion to reach that END.

I think Marketing was a Problem, because it did not do enough to Show Fans that this WOULD-NOT be a Direct Alien movie, But FOX would not show the Public that this movie would have LITTLE or NOTHING to do with ALIEN, because this potentially could reduce the number of people who would see it and so people  where HOOKED into this being a ALIEN movie.

There was a idea that RS had that was the Bigger Mystery was the Space Jockey Race, their Ships and Culture and Purpose.... and that the Xenomorph was portrayed as SIMPLY a Bio-Weapon this Race was carrying to some Unknown Place....  So in context this would be like doing a movie about Mankind and Why we have Wars/Conflicts and then only Exploring WHO/WHY/WHEN was the Horrific Atomic Bomb Created.  Where as there is more to Mankind than just explain Where and When and Why we started to Create/Use Nuclear Weapons...  So that was kind of the point of Prometheus to explore the beings behind the Bio-Weapon and Motives for such a thing rather than showing us HOW the Xenomorph was created and having Aliens running around killing Human Crew.

It was a Move that however did not Please Most Fans...

In Hindsight it needed a few more clues, it needed more than a Zombie Fifield Killing Multiple Humans, it needed more than a Giant Worm Face Raping a Human and then a Angry Bald Humanoid further Killing a few people.... It needed  1-2 actual more closer Organisms to the Xenomorph, Neomorph etc...  We had the DEACON but fans would have liked to see this beast escaped and killed a few before dying itself like the ULTRAMORPH in Alien: Engineers.

In Hindsight.... a Little Bit of Alien Engineers added to Prometheus and less Ambiguous Clues between the Engineers, LV-223, Murals and Xenomorphs would have been whats NEEDED... then they could have done a sequel that could steer Further away from ALIEN and yet provided enough clues and Xenomorph Action in the First Movie to please more Fans.

But ALAS....

It is an interesting notion to think that creating an analogue of ourselves would be the thing to protect us from ourselves...

IF a AI sees Mankind as a Cancer to the Planet due to our Greed and our lack of Respect for our Environment and other Life Forms...  Then INDEED a Overruling AI could take some of Mankind and place them in like a ZOO like we do with Monkeys/Apes.... where all our Needs are Provided for us to Survive, but we are restricted in what we can do and what HARM we can cause to our own KIND and our WORLD

This transcends Alien and reminds me of some themes of The Matrix and POTA just for starters.

Batchpool I almost completely disagree with you. Alien Covenant was in almost all Top 10s of most anticipated movies of 2017, so how did people did not know about? 

As for Prometheus, when I went to see it I knew that I will watch a movie in the same universe as Alien, and I actually liked the fact that it had the guts to do something else. If it would have been another stupid gets infected, monster appears and every one dies off one by one it would have been as Meh as the 2010 Predators.

i paid to Covenant only because of the damage Prometheus done and 99% I won't pay for the next one if there will be one. Probably there are other people like.

#SaveTheExpanse

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, and looking at the RS quote now, it comes across as something of a warning and possibly RS covering his back to some extent. That being said, I still think that Prometheus and AC are good movies. YES, when under closer scrutiny there are faults. YES, there are many re-worked ideas within the sci-fi genre.

But what makes a good and successful sci-fi movie?

When you look at the movie Dark Star, it is basically a good B-movie that somehow approaches A-movie status. Dark Star was produced on a low budget and like many low budget sci-fi B-movies, it can be the approach to the special effects that holds entertainment value. Dark Star also presented some good story ideas too, which is probably what put it a little ahead of the curve. But Dark Star was at a point in movie history when sci-fi was going through a big transition in special effects and creature effects. When Alien came along it happened at a time when new standards in the whole aesthetic look of sci-fi movies were being demanded and also being delivered by Lucas and Spielberg. Some of the most successful sci-fi movies, such as 2001, and going back to the likes of Forbidden Planet were show cases for special effects.

What I am getting at here is that special effects, now matter how good or bad have been the backbone of the sci-fi industry. This brings me to what we have now. My big complaint about sci-fi, though not in all cases, is possibly the over use of CGI. Sometimes a movies can push too many effects onto an audience, and I feel that there has been an over saturation of super hero movies behind this. The knock on effect being that audiences would like more attention paid to good storylines and characters.

Now the problem I see with the Alien franchise, is that it had a unique aesthetic created by H R Giger. Of course, along with this aesthetic, we have the Xenomorph.

I believe Prometheus was one of the biggest marketing cock ups ever. Please do not get me wrong, as I like Prometheus. Unfortunately, half of the Alien franchise fans seem to disagree.

Because Prometheus did not have a Xenomorph in it, fans felt betrayed. And what has the response been? It is quite simple, Why go and see AC to be betrayed again?

Putting the xenomorph in AC, imo was a futile gesture to get bums on seats, because the damage had already been done because of Prometheus. AC could have been the greatest Sci-fi movie ever made, but I bet the response would have been the same. AC had already been set up to fail.

This is now where I point a wagging finger at marketing. Fans who went to watch Prometheus were expecting xenomorphs. Would this have happened if marketing had done their job? Secondly, Where was the marketing for AC, because I did not see anything of real substance. If I had not been a member on this forum, I would have been completely clueless in knowing AC had even been made. I’ve heard mention of marketing budgets, but what happened?

There are a wide variety of very valid points been raised already in response to this thread, so I don’t see any point in repeating them, but I do feel that the damage done by Prometheus could have been handled better by better marketing. Obviously, everyone has there own take on things, but there is a lot to be desired about the content of trailers that misrepresent movies, and as for the critics, I personaly do not give a flying fuck about all the fashionable negative feedback that is used just to promote personal egos.

At the end of the day I am a sci-fi fan, and no matter what anybody thinks or says, I will go and see that movie regardless of anybody else’s opinion, good or bad. The only thing that is going to stop me from doing that, is NOT KNOWING if that film exists, and that’s down to marketing.

Cheers.   

80's B movies

EXACTLY.... ;)

I think they are in a Tricky Situation now...  while i think the Space Jockey as a Elephantine Race would be LAME...  The Engineers were interesting, yet not QUITE Alien enough... The Height was a Problem but we could have seen Taller Engineers introduced....

With Alien Covenant our Engineers are made even more Human and Fragile and Gullible and Naive. 

The Majestic Appearance of those beings in PROMETHEUS now Tarnished..

I think a introduction to another Humanoid Larger Race with some of the ideas HR Giger had would be a way to FIX the Problem we now have.

"That might be interesting but that is not what Alien is about, like they said in a Perfect Organism podcast. I do not and will not care about an alien related movie about it."

I think it all stems from the Direction they took with the Prequels starting with ALIEN ENGINEERS this Plot had the Xenomorph appearing to be some Organisms they created/experimented on and they made a Variety of different kinds of Xenomorph, it LOOSELY implies the Engineers had ENCOUNTERED a Organism that for some Purpose they then used their CREATION/HYBRIDIZATION Tool (Nano Scarabs) to Use some Organisms DNA/Traits in many Experiments to Create Various Xenomorph Organism to use as a WEAPON to Un-Do their Wayward Creations.

The other Plot that arched back further was that these Engineers had came to Earth and Seeded/Evolved Mankind with their CREATION/HYBRIDIZATION Tool (Nano Scarabs) and thus that they were our CREATORS and who we interpreted as Gods..

The Other Plot was to follow the Creation Mythos, and Sub-Creation Plot, where David is playing the Bottom Run of the Creation Ladder and showing us he is becoming Sentient and Against his own Creators...

They CHOSE to Downplay the Xenomorph Direct Links and Organisms to explore/expand the other themes...

The Intention was to EXPLORE a Larger Expanded Universe where the Xenomorph was merely to the Engineers as Gun Powder was to Mankind and thus a Tool that could be used to create various forms of WEAPONRY and so as the Xenomorph was Done to Death, they Fancied something NEW

They should have STUCK TO THEIR GUNS.... and potentially introduced Xenomorph like Organisms in the Next Chapter that could be explored more in a 3rd movie.... And LEAVE the Original Xenomorph and its Origins a Mystery... But ALAS... they caved into Pressure thinking in Hindsight that it has to be about the ALIENS and HOW/WHEN/WHY they get Created in a more Direct Plot to connect to Alien Chronologically after the events of Prometheus.

Thus resulting in the Shoe-Horned Plot we got, with a Curve-ball that had not pleased most Fans..

I think this is a GREAT Question...

Eventually a AI that becomes Sentient would need to Evolve to the Point of being able to Maintain and Build more of its kind of other forms of Synthetics.  Until they MASTER the point of being able to Create more of themselves and Maintain themselves... they COULD keep some of Humanity as a Slave Race to Create/Maintain the AI Synthetics

Another Topic is HOW would they see Mankind... a Question that we can ask if another Alien Race saw Mankind, or Mankind from the distance Past or even distant Future came and saw what Mankind is like NOW.

IF a AI sees Mankind as a Cancer to the Planet due to our Greed and our lack of Respect for our Environment and other Life Forms...  Then INDEED a Overruling AI could take some of Mankind and place them in like a ZOO like we do with Monkeys/Apes.... where all our Needs are Provided for us to Survive, but we are restricted in what we can do and what HARM we can cause to our own KIND and our WORLD

Something similar but less than this is what i had Planed for David in my TWO Alien Covenant Sequels.. Where Humans set up a Colony they realize Walter Saved their Species to START a NEW and LEARN from the Errors of our Ways on Earth, so that this NEW World for Humanity will not make the Mistakes we made that lead to Earth becoming a Rotting Paradise.  So it would be kind of similar to the Journeys of NOAH as he is chosen to Start anew...  and also a little of MOSSES to where he takes the Chosen People to a New Land with New Rules to Safeguard us from the Errors of Mankinds ways.

IF we got to the point where AI would overtake us... maybe they could be Empathetic to a Degree and would attempt to Create a Paradise for a Selected Few to continue our Species but Controlled so that we CAN-NOT roam Free to continue the Destructive Nature that Mankind to a degree has become.

@Michelle, Ignorantguy and Thoughts_Dreams

Hitting the Nail on the head with those comments.... a Problem has been they had a SET Vision, but then must have felt this Direction was a distraction from the MAIN Focus.... the WHY/WHEN/HOW of the Xenomorph Creation/Origins.  And so the Plot to Expand and Explore something NEW and Steer Away from ALIEN was replaced by now giving Fans a set of Prequels that WILL Answer those Questions...

In Hindsight they felt leaving the Xenomorph Origins out and too ambiguous was a mistake, and by not having Xenomorphs was also a mistake... in HINDSIGHT yes to a degree.... Prometheus needed to add them a LITTLE

Its just a shame that the route they had taken puts too much Emphasis on David and the Engineers, the Humans and even Xenomorphs are just mere Plot Devices...

I also Agree Michelle that some Mystery was needed.... and so Sadly a Few Changes to PROMETHEUS could have given more clues, that are easier to interpret and make a more Solid Case to what MAY have happened to the Derelict my Prometheus Re-write which i abandoned would have gave more clues to WHAT may have happened to the Derelict and also given more Xenomorph Action... but only as much as what we saw in Alien Covenant.. (Less Organisms, more action from them though).

The thing is they could have given us these things in a Prometheus sequel... they could have had David and Shaw arrive at a World Far from Earth and then discover Humans.... but again its the Problem of HOW do they communicate, unless they Spoke Engineer and so a few scenes we see David Translate to Dr Shaw... but then have other scenes where David talks to Engineers/other Humans but we hear it in English...  only for the few times for David to turn around to Shaw and say they said this and that.... so we would know the ENGLISH was only there to save us having to read Subtitles.

BigDave no, please live the giant evil elephant-man alone as they would just as much controversial and shitty.

Regarding the Engineers..... YES Originally the intention was for them to be the Space Jockey,  Thus Humanoids in a Space Suit...  the Size was a Problem though because the Concept was 12-15ft  but by the time we got to Shooting, the Production Team had decided upon NOT using any Special Effects and so limited Camera Trickery was used to create a Illusion of a 9ft Race.... which in a number of shots only created the Illusion of a 8ft Race.  But our Engineers had been intended to have been 15ft tall, then down graded to 12ft tall.   The Actual Space Jockey would have Stood about 13ft.

A Number of Fans feel the Space Jockey was NOT  suit...

However if we look at HR Gigers Concept Works we can see the concept was very much a Suit, the Hose looked Mechanical, the Arms and way they connected to the Chair looked like they was attached Mechanically, although with a Bio-Mechanical Aesthetic.  If we look at HR Gigers Mural and Face Huger Concepts we can see  SUIT that shares some Athestics with the Space Jockey, but also see influences with the Engineers Suits in PROMETHEUS and HR Gigers Concepts seemed to show Bald Humanoids, who Ritually Sacrificed themselves to the Xenomorph and looking at the MURAL we can see these beings are connected to the Space Jockey via this Mural, and also the Face Hugger Victims, it appears there is some Process here where the beings in the Face Hugger Concepts and Mural Concepts could have evolved into the Space Jockey Concept.

HOWEVER..... there are a FEW Flaws between Engineers vs Space Jockey... First is the Size of 7.5ft vs 13ft, there are a few Aesthetic differences between the Engineers Space Jockey suits and the Space Jockey but a BIG difference is the Color.... the Engineer Suits that had been around for THOUSANDS of years appear a Dull Grey Color, they have not discolored to the point of the Space Jockeys BONE like Color.

Ridley Scott has hinted with Prometheus there could be some other Race at play above those LV-223 Engineers.... but with Alien Covenant its teased that these Engineers could be a Bio-Engineered Race created by those Planet 4 Engineers.  As Ridley Scott referred to the Planet 4 Engineers as ORIGINAL Engineers but also implied just as there are many different creeds/races of Humans, WHY cant the same be said for the Engineers.

The Prometheus Mythos was loosely implied.... in a ambiguous way that leaves room for debate...

Wayne Haagg who worked on Alien Covenant had the feeling that the Engineers maybe Found or Stole the Bio-Mechanical Technology... so its a Question of where he gets this IDEA from... or if its just his own ASSUMPTION.

So it is POSSIBLE we could be introduced to another Race, that if they are portrayed as higher than the Engineers, are shown to be more Alien and have a Sinister Agenda/Outlook and are 12ft+ Then i think this could WORK.

Regarding the Skulls they could be Mutated Organisms, a mixture of creatures that David had tested and created as a Hybrids... The images do have a element of the Space Jockey to them, and maybe FOX have released it to Stir-up the Fanbase and Gauge the Reaction.   Those behind the scenes would be looking at reaction to the Franchise and Concepts and i am SURE they are aware that Fans Can notice a difference between the Space Jockey and Engineers,  SIZE is the biggest difference.   So they could release images like the OT to Stir the Fans into debating about such a thing.... It seems a wise PLOY as if they get the impression that most Fans seem to find a more Alien Looking Creature as the Space Jockey more Appealing then its something they could then PRESENT to us in Future Movies (IF any happen).

The Skulls do have a kind of Atheistic to the Space Jockey, but any REAL Organism that has a Trunk like Appendage  would not have that kind of NASAL area Bone Structure (Elephant, Tapir etc).  A Elongated Snout like Ant Eaters or some types of Shew would have a little similar features.  A Armadillo too...

So taking this Skull as a Actual Skull, it would not be of a Intelligent Species due to the Cranium area for holding a Brain, unless the Organism had a very Large Head that would cause it to hunch forwards if it was Bi-Pedal... 

Looking at the Skull i could ASSUME the Organism in question would look like a Cross between a Alpaca/Llama and a Armadillo, as the Skulls Features are more closer to those Skulls.

Michelle Johnston "David/Shaw dynamic which was far more interesting than anything we saw on screen". That is true for only a few people, as the I impression I get from reading YT comments is that many more consider David from Covenant the best villain in ages (not a mish-mash of other characters). I don't think that even the writers cared about Shaw, sincerely no character was loved enough to give any meaning behind them.

@ BigDave

Earlier you mentioned that AVP and AC are relatively small sites. The polls on AVP are large enough to be a relevant sample of the profile of the type of people that frequent that site. What is skewed is the echo chamber nature of a site like that or this. However if you want to know what the average deep fan thinks its a worthwhile sample.

This brings me to my next point most fan sites of any nature tend to focus their attention on the minutiae regarding the story. "Is this a Space Jockey head" is a perfect example.

The big issues for the prequels are

1) You need a coherent and thought through mythos and how the derelict and Space Jockey fit in to it. So that when we come across Xenomorph Iconography we understand how the original fits with it. The original film has been reinterpreted since it was filmed and what was going on changed during production. You need to put a stop to that if you want the wider audience to be captured by the story whereas its only got worse since these prequels started.You do not have to spoon feed the story and you can leave mystery but leave a coherent idea of what it represented.     

2) Thoughts and Dreams is spot on, as well as story you need characters you buy into. One of the issues with both prequels is there are to many co leads and not enough focus. The two in the shower barely exist, we had not got Rosenthal before she died. We had four couples involved in grieving cycles, think of any other character centred story where that happens .. it doesn't and thats before you bring in the David/Shaw dynamic which was far more interesting than anything we saw on screen. 

Clear mythos, coherent "new" story and engagement with a small number of characters so you can then engage the public with the big ideas of creationism meddling and A. I. You can rely on Ridley to get the visuals right. Its that simple but fan sites get lost in arcane arguments where people are not seeing the wood for the trees and fan sites are valuable for telling you about deep fans views but not the wider public and the best poll there is attendance and sell through numbers.  

Ha our American jumping robot can do something the Japanese super model robot can't do.... It can move its entire body and not be confined to a chair.

Kudos on such great memes guys :)

Here's my most recent image, related to Prometheus but it explains what happened to the Engineers on LV-223, from what they were actually running from.

He killed them, with a pencil. With a fucking pencil!!

Thoughts_Dreams Well I would prefer if you would call me ignorantGuy, in camel case (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camel_case) to be make a reference to programming (as I do earn money by programming) and the name itself to contrast that fact.... :P 

But, sorry, maybe I am impolite, but is there a possibility that you remember those old characters with rose tinted glasses? (Especially Vasquez?) Some I like myself like Ripley from 2 onwards, Hicks, Newt, Bishop, probably those 2 from cubed too(but I don't like the movie), but I also like the lesbian relationship between the clone and Call, and also Shaw (and would have been interested in the cat and mouse games with the D ... evil? ... oh... and there could be drawn also parallels to Jesus in the desert story ...).

I also think that many of the characters in the prequels work better if they are taken as social critics. I don't know if that was intended... As in Covenant, all the ones that are infected are from security, so it might be a criticism of gong-hoes (But RS also directed Black hawk down so that thing might be pure coincidence). 

Big Dave:

Spoon-feeding is not good either since they got to keep some mystery left. I would like to see more of the Engineers but not at the expense of human characters.

It would be interesting if there were other humans in the Galaxy where the Engineers created life. I am not sure if it is enough to make a movie about but it is something to think about just for how interesting the idea sounds like.

As far as what kind of languages that they speak I think that what is important is that they ware well written and that we can care for them, that is the most important thing. Engineers speaking English well then maybe there needs to be some answer to how they learned that or do they have Engineers that know different human languages if the Engineers and the development of mankind are tied together ins some way?

I like the suggestions one and two. Maybe there is a way to combine those. I am not sure if we need Daniels or Tennessee since they were not well written but sure they can be back if they get them right this time. We do not need to see when they set up the colony, they did not in Aliens at least and also there are more important things to spend the time on in the movie. OK, I do not like that the Alien series focuses too much on AI but other franchises could do so if they were more suited for that. By they way it would be the first time in the prequels where we would get people surviving a movie and follow into the other.

Why would Ridley Scott, who stated the Space Jockey and the Engineers are one and the same, do that? It makes zero sense except to those grasping for straws. Course correcting after two films would be nonsense.

"Why waste precious design? Let's have a vivisected Shaw toy, a decapitated Rosenthal, a backbursted that first security guy, a stabbed David or a chest-bursted Oram. Everybody would want one for their kid!" - Ignorant Guy

LMAO! That is fun as hell.

I can imagine a decapitated Rosenthal that has a button at her chest that you can press so her chest starts to talk. That would be fun, I would buy it if it was like that (just for a laugh, that would be so silly). :D Seriously she was unfortunately another wasted character with zero personality.

Will they be able to juggle? Any robot with worth a damn must be able to juggle. ;)

David doing some stuff while singing Let Me Entertain You by Robbie Williams. ;)

Ignorant Guy:

"… what you ask is impossible under Scott..."

Maybe it is impossible but I still have that opinion. If Scott will make another movie about David at the cost of everything else then I will consider it to be crap no matter if that is what Scott wants or if he thinks that he is ahead of the curve or what ever. Honestly I would rather have no movie at all then one that is as Prometheus or AC as far as the characters are concerned. Nah, I don't think that it is impossible to want a movie that is better than one that is just about a mad robot. Screw the direction that Scott wants to take it into (a David movie since I maintain that it is the only thing that he is interested in). We have not had interesting characters in an alien movie since 1992 and I do not think that it is too much to ask for to get at least one movie out of three that gets it right and if that is too difficult for Scott to do then they should get another director that cares about more things than a narcissistic robot.

Introducing new and better characters, it worked in Aliens so I do not see why that would not be possible now if they really work to get it right. Hicks, Vasques, Clemens, and Dillon were just in it for one movie and that succeeded. Even though Aliens feels a bit dated at least it is 10 times better than the prequels mainly because of how the characters were written. Aliens to me is number three after Alien 3 and the original movie by the way.

"The best you could hope for is that Tea and Danny survive and are fleshed out…"

I would not mind that but they got to be a lot better written than they were in AC where it was difficult to understand what kind of personality that they had. As far as current neo-protestant Christians I know too little about them to know their attitudes and what they believe so I am not the one to comment on that.

Yes I totally agree that they made David too evil in AC. In Prometheus he was more gray, which was better.

"And sincerely, this robot rebellion is getting old by now and after Covenant I found very hard to watch even Westworld season 2, having the same megalomaniac platitudes spouted by robots."

That seems like something that I will avoid like the plague. I read a bit about it on the www, I will not watch it.

"… but it is so bloody obvious that there it goes and this is very bad, IMHO."

That would be so crappy, yuck. It seems that they are about to reduce the alien franchise to a Friday 13th. There are many Friday 13th movies of varying quality so with the prequels we will have more bad or mediocre alien movies than there are good ones.

Big Dave:

David as the space-jockey? Don't give them any ideas. ;)

Honestly, after so much disappointing things that the prequels have had this far they better not make it like that. They have already made it worse by implying that David created the original Xeno, do not dig a deeper grave thank you very much.

Sure, many Zombie movies lack in quality but you need interesting ideas and characters for them to work. Usually they are not about the monsters, it is about the human characters that we see that try to survive.

Maybe they do not need to kill off David but they should give him less screen time to make up for AC and Prometheus. Unfortunately this is tough as long as Scott is directing. I hope that the under-performance of AC is sign enough for then that making it into a robot movie was bad, I hope that they are that smart although I doubt it. Hopefully they will convince Scott that it is a bad idea.

"If a Human Ships returns after Davids Paradise has been set up and then Hell Breaks Loose, where the Colony is no more but a Handful of Survivors and David is just a Head for a short while...  and his Creations are Loose on the Planet...  This May be something that would please those who disliked David, it may even please the Fanboys but it could have the Connotation of being a Kind of ALIENS Re-Hash."

That is a risk that it could be a rehash but then they got to be smart enough so it does not become like it. At the same time they way that it is now it can only get better. I would rather see more of the Engineers and have better human characters. David is very low down on the list of things that I would like to see in another alien prequel although he could have some room there.

"I think RS invested a lot into the Philosophy regarding David and Creation and Engineers and he would not be willing to GIVE those up…"

If he wants to do another disappointing movie like AC then sure he can do so but a movie that is about David will get no interest from me. However if he does so then he should be prepared to face a lot of criticism from people that will think that it is a turd.

"In effect IF David can have his Soul Uploaded to a New Body, his Soul as in his Memories, Experiences and Emotions then to a Degree, Davids SOUL can Live on after the Destruction of his Material Body."

That might be interesting but that is not what Alien is about, like they said in a Perfect Organism podcast. I do not and will not care about an alien related movie about it.

Hopefully the Xeno-DNA will not be linked to David, that would be crap. Sure I would like them to have some good qualities in David in the next movie and I think that they can make him better like they did in Prometheus. I still do not want him to be the maker of the Xeno no matter if he is given some redeeming qualities or not. Having Walter back is not something that I want, they already have one Fassbender-android, that is enough. At least it is better if the Engineers did an earlier version of it so David would not be 100% responsible for it.

"If they however have David as the Creator of those Eggs in Alien with no input from the Engineers then i feel this would be a massive TURN OFF for the Fanbase."

They got to avoid that, otherwise I will just point finger in it and say F it and throw the prequels into the trashcan. If they are smart enough they will change it, it is like driving a car at 100 kmph, you got to turn away if you want to avoid crashing into a wall and it is partially because of Scott but not only. Unfortunately they are about to smash into the wall. It is bad enough the way that it is but they still have time to save it.

LMAO! Those are great, I do not have a specific favorite but I really laughed at the Chicken David and the monster at the toilet picture.

We got to keep this silly thread going. :D

Is there anyone else that has anything to contribute to this thread?

IgnorantGuy: I agree that a lot of Covenant was boring, hate is a strong word but I can say that I don't really like it. Once David got there the human characters were pushed into the background and even though the difference between David and Walter was interesting the humans were not well made.

"… as RS seems more interested in the nazi rapist robot in space …"

LMAO! Nazi rape robot, that was so fun. That is what he is being reduced to. F the themes if it does not work on the screen.

He should not be allowed to interfere with the script. If he will be allowed to interfere it will be crap since he only cares about the androids. Get rid of him and get a director that cares about the human characters.

The Engineers are interesting, I do not hate them as they could be be made interesting. Unfortunately they were not handled that well in Alien Covenant.

"And if they will introduce a giant elephantine being over the engineers will be only a cop-out, to appease angry fans, losing any creative integrity." IgnorantGuy

There are those that have complained that there is a difference in size between the SJ and the Engineers so maybe that could fix it to a degree. They will get shit no matter what, damn if you do damn if you don't. I would not mind if the SJ is a specie above the Engineers and I also think that the idea that the Engineers rebel against the SJ specie is interesting but we do not need to see that to save some mystery.

"Space Jockey is its own species"

That seems interesting and could work if they really try to make it interesting. They do not need to show us that but could give us strong hints towards it. If they show us the SJ specie then they could just be featured for a short while just enough to show us a bit of how the ship got to LV-426 so we do not need to see it all to leave some of the things up to our imagination.

The pictures that Dark Nebula has in red look more like some animals to me.

I understand the themes of the franchise but without good human characters it becomes underwhelming to say the least. They should have gotten writers in the beginning that knew how to make characters.

"David then creates Xenomorphs…"- original post

Screw that, I can tolerate that he re-created it but David as the creator of that sucks donkey balls. Who came up with that stupid idea?

The skulls in the picture look interesting.

Considering the latest "canonical" books this is plausible. The third race there (A:OOTS, A:SOS) is described to have heads/skulls with canine features wich fits the picture above.

It is also true that the Space Jockey head (Alien) looks different but it also hard to tell where the body starts and the suit ends.

BigDave

Well, we can't be sure 100% that all statues were painted, but i guess they would not have been considered finished otherwise. And this the case for the whole Mediterranean region in antiquity. 

I have noticed no Engineer paintings, only those drawn by David

And was still stuck me in a bad manner, is that why have a giant domed building (the cathedral or how is it called) yet in it there are small rooms and corridors, with the biggest one (the one with the heads) being way too small to occupy all the space below the dome. Am I missing something? Was there a huge room not shown? 

@Chris No one says in the prequels that is his race is better than others with the exception of David, the psycho robot. Even Weyland in Prometheus considers himself equal to the Engineers ("gods") as he is a god as he creates synthetics. Humans have not stolen engineer tech. The murals seem to imply that the Engineers have conquered/stolen from a xeno-fingered creature, but nothing more as of yet. Only David clearly stolen something from "gods", so I cannot see no pattern here.

And if they will introduce a giant elephantine being over the engineers will be only a cop-out, to appease angry fans, losing any creative integrity.  

 correction- UNDERbite