Comments (Page 351)

The Giger painting looks cool. It looks like someone that is lying in a bath that they try to inject enhancing liquids into. Correct me if I am mistaken but I think that is how they made Wolverine into that person. A little more of Giger would be nice in the next movie but not too much because we have already have that it the movies before the prequels so something new would be nice.

Xenotaris: Take it easy, I am just joking, kind of. I still think that AC is underwhelming

This is a scenario where they do honestly need to go the reboot route. 

I often see dreams about Aliens. About how they infested the Earth. Sometimes Aliens almost mixed with The Thing and strange mind (Devil or Lovecraftian creature), and get control of the planet. All people or infested by facehuggers, or not those who they are.

I think - it something like crossover between Alien, The Thing, Lovecraft and Gyo.

Very inspiring dreams.

Kathy I won't shed a tear.

Michelle Johnston

That site might be representative of how one group thinks, but not how that big that group is. And even here and there usually only about 20 people contribute regularly. Can anyone draw any coherent conclusion in this situation? Probably not.

But what do I know.

I had a dream where Darth Vader recruited the Super Predators to take over the universe in a 1950's style documentary reel 

I recommend Aliens versus Predator 2 and its expansion Primal Hunt, you can either buy it on Amazon or Ebay. Its probably the only AVP related media that has true relevance to Alien series.

@Big Dave

Well Hadley's Hope had a Praetorian but it then it grew up in to the Queen that Ripley encounters. Since the first concepts of the Preatorians came from AVP2 (2001), they were described as young queens who molted from the warrior caste. 

So if we combined the Egg Morphing ability with the Queen, lets say that Lambert and Dallas were used for host, while Brett and Parker were turned into eggs. I think Big Chap/Kane's Son being the older xenomorph would molt first into a warrior, then into a preatorian, then molt into a Queen.

ignorantGuy  $22 per 15 minutes of play. And only at malls?

If that is the case, the project seems doomed. 

@ ignorantGuy

You missed my point entirely. I indicated that the fan base, of which AVPGalaxy is a very prominent and well respected component, is segmented. There is an element of echo chamber feedback where particular sites will produce particular outcomes but the overall mosaic when put together is highly fragmented. 

This conversation has mentioned AVP/AC Com and general movies goers who can be bothered to contribute to movie feedback sites. The overall outcome is indecisive except in one regard Prometheus made more money. 

What all the feedback I have read agrees on is Ridley misread the criticisms of Prometheus. People wanted more clarity as to how what they found on LV 223 related to the Xenomorph not more Xenomorph. That was one of the questions that should have been answered before moving on to much more fertile territory. 

This makes me look at things as a mistake on the Engineers' part- not the most original idea. Looks like they created something that got out of control as suggested from Prometheus. 

the structure would degrade growing with the organism and everything becomes alive "Biomechanical".

That is the million dollar question imo. I hope it is not entirely answered though so that something is left for people to ponder. That's sort of what sci fi is about after all.

I apologize if in the first draft of the theme I was too straightforward and unclear, I have covered everything by adjusting the theme and re-propose it again.

"Au Revoir Shoshanna"

Here is one that is more of an homage to the Giger vibe. I imagine Nin would dig this. Lyrics are there and fit nicely as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QI6Fkt-HRAM

Nice find! That Alien 3 game had some great tunes!

Not too easy to find music like this. Here is a metal cover from the NES Alien 3 16 bit days.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nr2ZoRunPI8

Thanks dk! There is definitely some talented people out there!

Thanks for sharing. This is pretty good. Almost everything is better when seasoned with Metal. There are tons of really good metal versions of video game themes out there as well- Zelda and Mario for instance.

 The whole prequels are about who the Giants are (which are Engineers).  Plus, Ridley wants to explore the ORIGINS of the Xeno.  These are a great base for some great stories of a great franchise.  Still, with those points in mind and with the idea that these are PREQUELS, I think these prequel movies don't have to actually SHOW a Xenomorph.

well said moongirl.

@Michelle Johnston

Well that poll on avpgalaxy was taken from a little more than 3000 votes, with a maybe 30 more Covenant answers. That's absolutely not relavant. On the same site there is another poll which says that more people would like to see Alien 5 than Covenant 2, with 7000 votes. Both irrelevant because of the small numbers. With sites with many users like IMDB, RottenTomatoes or Metacritic Covenant is worse by about 0.5-0.6 points out of 10.  There is a downward trend in the audiences as a whole.

And even the Predator has some pretty loud voice who are worried.

I could not have said it any BETTER ;)

Indeed Michelle RS was trying to explore something Greater, to OPEN up the Franchise beyond just the Xenomorph...  but giving in to the Fanbase that would rather had a Blomkamp ALIEN 5 has only just SHRUNK the Franchise even Smaller than maybe ALIEN because that Scope behind the Mystery and Prequels has now been Shoe-horned into a Corner...

RS holding on to his Guns with his Philosophy by persuading the Change to David being the Creator.... which has upset mainly the Fanbase who contributed to Prometheus 2 becoming the Alien Flick that Alien Covenant was...

The problem with David is a lot of fans view him as a Robot....

Ridley Scott covered what is a AI and he said that Baty and Racheal were AI and so Replicants are AI.... AI basically meaning something Artificially Created that is Intelligent and so CLONES could be AI... the LV-223 Engineers could be AI

We need to look at David being a Synthetic Intelligent being, a Robot YES but a Robot who has Emotions, Emotions that start to Develop more Human than the Company maybe intended...  David also started to gain Free-Will and so he would now see himself as a Intelligent Sentient Being who while Synthetic, is more Advanced than Humans in Every-way... he is even more Immortal than a Human.  The ONLY thing he cant do is CREATE Life as a Human Can...

The Basis for Prometheus which began with Alien Engineers was that at some point the ENGINEERS lost their Ability to CREATE Life Naturally too. This was changed a bit for Prometheus, well Ridley Scott commented that they can Create Life in other Ways but the Sacrificial Scene was how they chose to do it.  And so David Can Create Life via using the Engineers Black Goo and Experiment with it but it would be a Artificial Creation like David... however a Creation that can Pro-create which David Can-not do.

If the Engineers lost the ability to Procreate, or the LV-223 Engineers are to the Planet 4 Engineers as Replicants are to Humans.. and so the LV-223 Engineers CAN-NOT Procreate via Giving Birth (prior to AC we could ponder if All Engineers had lost this ability).

Then this would give us a GOOD Reason why those Engineers Worshiped the Mural in Prometheus, IF something related to the Xenomorph or the Black Goo allowed THESE Engineers to Give Birth/Create Life via something Growing inside of them... they could indeed be Facinated by the Xenomorph (and related) Organisms LIFE-CYCLE.

IF we get back to Davids Xenomorph and connect to ALIEN.. we could introduce the Engineers or a Race above them who SEE Davids Creation and see it as interesting and Perfect or a Improvement over what the LV-223 Engineers had been doing..

THUS.... having these beings Take David's Creation and EVOLVE/ENGINEER it would mean that the Xenomorph in ALIEN is a Product where David only plays the Middle Man... and the Engineers or Related are responsible for the Knowledge/Tools for David to USE to Engineer his Creation and these beings then TAKE Davids Creation and EVOLVE it into the Classic Bio-Mechanical Xenomorph.

THIS^^^ Kind of Twist would fit with the Philosophy of Prometheus and make the Xenomorph in Alien something that David only played a Part in its Creation.

the biggest issue facing RS where Prometheus especially is concerned is we know where it supposed to go. that's the trouble with prequels. we know the ending and so the alien fans were just waiting to see the film and then after it say 'awe so that's what happened' and 'so that's why this'. they didn't get that but in their pursuit of shooting Prometheus down they forgot the basics of the first film in a trilogy. u r not meant to get any of the answers. its supposed to raise questions. THERES 2 MORE FILM TO COME DUMBASSES. what exactly did people expect to get out it?? everything revealed so theres no point in any other films? for me, as a first in a trilogy that WAS supposed to be a stand alone series that 'came in through the back door' to alien and delve into the only remaining true mystery of the franchise, Prometheus was a great start imo. went in a different direction and if allowed to proceed on its intended path the whole franchise could have been blown wide open for countless other films in so many different directions. but, sadly nope. we get a follow up film that's 20% what was intended and 80% heres ur f*****g monsters u moaning faced degenerates. ah well. awakening will be what it will be.

@I Moon Girl

You certainly DONT need a Spoon Fed whole Space Jockey Explanation, and Prometheus gave us the clues but they was WAY to vague and ambiguous....   Ridley Scott explained the Space Jockey Event  a few times the last time he did (prior to Alien Covenant) he added about a EVOLVING Cargo.  Here is a break down of what he said.

*The Derelict/Juggernaught are related but are separated by a maybe few hundred years.

*The Space Jockey/Engineers are Brothers, they are related.

*The Juggernaught/Derelict are Biological Warfare carrying Cargo Ships and Bombers to a degree.

*The Space Jockey event is related to LV-223.

*The Space Jockey event happened within a few-hundred years of the LV-223 Outbreak (2000 years ago) give or take.  Few Hundred years prior or after is the Question?

*The Derelict did-not crash as per say.. it had intended to land on LV-426

The exact Space Jockey Event is described as Follows.

*The Derelict was heading to a undisclosed Location.

*It did not get Far before/because the Pilot was infected.

*He was infected by his Cargo, something had Evolved in the Cargo and it got to the Pilot.

*The Pilot knowing this laid down a course to the Baron LV-426 and set of a Warning to his Brothers that his Cargo was Compromised.

*The Space Jockey attempted to Land the Derelict and become Chest Busted during the Final Stages of Landing.

So THIS was the explanation... and we did not need to see these step by step.... a few clues would have been enough, and so EVEN with the Change of Direction THEY do not have to show us the complete event STEP-BY-STEP

I think the Plan was TWO movies for this... but IF they did ONE movie than they would certainly be better off showing us a few clues and NOT the whole Event on Screen..

IF they are Clever.... they could have the Final Prequel in the closing Scene show a Giant Engineer 12ft get into the Pilot Chair, take off and show us the Egg Chamber and reveal a Face Hugger is loose... or even have David Regurgitate up a Embryo after he gets KILLED (beheaded)  by the Engineer Again...  we see this Tiny Face Hugger uncoil and start to Grow and Scurry Off...

THIS leaves the Ending OPEN... so IT could be what happened to the Space Jockey but IT could also be NOT what happened...

Prometheus and Bladerunner (and 2049) deal with audacious questions. Who created us and indeed what is creation. Both P.L. and BR2049 covered similar issues. The Engineers .. engineered and the Tyrell Corporation.... engineered and both found their creations grew beyond their visions.  

In to that comes ambiguity Shaw, K, David, Deckard and Stelline with Shaw and Stelline the sandwich on the outside of three ambiguous creative outcomes.

Thats what my generation wanted from Prometheus and Bladerunner sequels. That AVP Galaxy think that Covenant is better than Prometheus and enthuse about the Predator shows the audience is deeply segmented. Thats what you get when you play around with a franchises aesthetics. Ridley wanted to explore the mystery of his first film and create more mystery that was achieved with BR2049 on the back of BR with Prometheus he left himself vulnerable which is ironic because every movie in the A L I E N franchise since A L I E N S has suffered the same problem. If he had nailed Prometheus (narrative momentum, bullet proof risk behaviour, linkage some obvious answers and some great questions) he could have gone on.

I never got as far as them in the first AVP or AVP2 Primal Hunt... i also do-not read the comics etc.... not much anyway...

But looking at the Praetorian it could be something to be incorporated, but this basically means a ELITE Xenomorph that Guards the Queen..  And we would assume that there would be more than ONE of these but certainly not many of them...

It makes for a interesting idea i guess, where we can assume these stay close to the incapacitated Egg Laying Queen...  Guarding the Queen and tending to the Queen....  But we DO-NOT see any in Aliens... maybe the HIVE was Young and so NO  Praetorian's have been Created/Evolved yet.... Maybe THIS is what awaited Newt?

This kind of Hierarchy would be interesting, but what when the Queen Dies, or Leaves the Hive and is no longer around?  Do the say 2-4 Praetorian's Fight it Out and the Winner becomes the Queen but what kind of Process after this Fight Evolves the Winner?  If they obtain something from the Queen... how does this work if a Queen is Captured instead?

While interesting i think this fits more with the Popcorn Comics and Games.

I would still like to think back to the plans for ALIEN and that would be to Question what Purpose is the Egg Morph.... if it was to Create another Xenomorph.... then surely the Drone would have been better either...   using Lambert and Parker too so we have TWO Eggs and TWO Hosts which leads to another TWO Xenomorphs giving us THREE!

Or again using Lambert and Parker and  and if Dallas was being Turned into a Egg and not just Held in place as a HOST then we could have FOUR Xenomorph Eggs...

The only Logical Sense to only needing TWO Bodies for what looked like a EGG and a Host for the EGG would be IF the result is a EGG Laying Xenomorph.

This would also explain the Aesthetic Differences between the Warriors and the Alien Drone...  it would also explain why the Alien 3 Runner was more like the Alien Drone as far as the Head Aesthetic was concerned.   And so a SET-UP Hive and/or Birth of a Queen once at Egg Laying Stage releases Pheromones or similar to Prevent Drones.

Unless the Face Hugger Impregnates the Host a CERTAIN Distance away from the HIVE...  as for the QUEEN maybe she does not want a Rival Queen? This would also EXPLAIN why the Xenomorphs Carried the Hosts to be Cocooned near/in the Hive itself.

I can see why the direction change happened.... as Technology is Knowledge and Evolving Knowledge and Technology can down the line lead to a Hubris.

The Change of Direction to brush Dr Shaw and Engineers under the Carpet was a bit of a disappointment but we have to ASK how else would this have ENDED? 

And so these are Questions needed to be solved in a Prometheus Sequel (prior to Alien Covenant Changes).

*We can assume Dr Shaw puts David back together to be able to leave LV-223 and go to Paradise.... HOWEVER.. Once David is back together then Dr Shaw is at the Whim of David and he can basically do what he wants and so its a Question of Does David KEEP to his side of any Covenant they made... and the Big Question is WHY.... whats in it for David?

*Does David take the Juggernaught to the Engineers Homeworld PARADISE? He could take a Detour first... or go some other place and basically give Dr Shaw what ever Reason or Excuse, he could even suggest any other place they GO is Paradise or that Paradise is NO more.

*IF David takes Dr Shaw to Paradise, or where ever else related to the Engineers.... Would this place have any BEINGS remaining, and if so we have to ask... 

a) Are these beings aware of who Mankind Are?

b) Are these beings aware of LV-223 and/or the plans to Eradicate Mankind?

c) How would these beings Receive Dr Shaw and David? If they are as hostile towards us as the LV-223 Engineers this does not Bold Well for them.

*What is the outcome of discovering the Engineers or other beings on Paradise or where ever David would take the Juggernaught.  There has to be a way to explain WHY the Engineers play no part in the Alien Franchise from 1979-1997.   If they discover these beings who have bad intentions for Mankind, or did but chose to abandon us, they surely would be concerned now THEY KNOW we can Find them.

*What is in it for DAVID what is his Agenda... i think now he is FREE he would not want to Serve, and its likely he would be interested to find out more about the Engineers/Their Creation and gain more of their Knowledge and Power... Provided it is of NO Risk to David. It is likely David would want to be the KING now and Play GOD.

So that was basically the Set-Up as far as David and Shaw and what they DO NEXT and Ridley Scott gave us a insight to this...

He mentioned along the lines of.... THEY (David and Shaw) are off to the Engineers Home World, where THEY do find these BEINGS.  But these beings are NOT Gods... not in the TRADITIONAL sense and they are FAR from BENEVOLENT... However David is bringing HELL with him and what happens if the Black Goo INFECTS a God or a Machine?

This certainly answers some of those Bullet Points i made earlier, so they are indeed off to where the Engineers came from, the beings they discover are not Benevolent.. not as far as Humanity and our Purpose is...  But David has the Black Goo.... does he Destroy them? Or does the Black Goo become a Bargaining Chip for David something that will make those beings Re-consider how they react to David and Shaw.

The Source i had from February 2015 based of Drafts from October 2014 (they claim) had painted a picture of what Prometheus 2 would have been...  And indeed it paints the picture that Dr Shaw ends up finding out her Answers at First Hand by revealing the Truth was Sinister, and that David wishes to play GOD and he basically uses Dr Shaw to CREATE his OWN  Xenomorph/Deacon well he Re-Creates it.

And ALAS... 6 Months latter when we get the Announcement about Alien Covenant and 14 Months prior to Shooting... many parts of what the Source Claimed ACTUALLY are passed on to Alien Covenant... with some Changes off course...

A lot of Evolution has happened in Ridley Scotts Alien Movies, from the beginnings with Starbeast to its Evolution to Alien the franchise has continues to Evolve and Change with Each movie certain things are added or omitted.    It would be interesting to see what route Ridley Scott would have taken with  the Franchise had he been able to had continued with HIS plans after ALIEN. 

At various points in time way prior to the Prequels it appeared RS had 2-3 different ideas of what he would have done NEXT.

But even as far as the last time RS may have pondered where to take the Franchise as in a Prequel before FOX Decided to go for a Aliens vs Predator instead...  Between this time and the actual Prequel that got the GO AHEAD the ideas have Evolved and Changed while keeping some CORE ideas, from Alien Engineers ==> Paradise ==> to what then became the Final Idea for Prometheus.  We see things got changed around a little.... a number of these appear to be down to Executives at FOX wishing to Change/Remove Certain things....  At First it was to make the Prequel (Alien: Engineers) Less Alieny and Remove nearly all Xenomorph connections and Clues.

Then with Prometheus (also during shooting of a few last scenes) in the Edit Room, changes of Directions are changed yet again with Scenes Edited, Removed and New Scenes that Change what could have been a certain Direction.....

Then we had the set up for Prometheus 2, that has been through many changes but at SOME POINT... FOX again decided a U-Turn and to now tone Down/Remove maybe the majority idea/concept of some of the earlier Prometheus sequel ideas and INTRODUCE the Xenomorph and Change the Path to a More Direct set of Prequels to link to ALIEN

It always appeared the Plan was to make ideally TWO Sequels to Alien Covenant...  But Ridley Scott Felt they could make another 5-6 movies but i think these would have been a series of Prequels that Branch off from the Alien Covenant Sequels and so WOULD-NOT Directly connect to the Derelict Event.  This Event would like be touched on by the Conclusion to the Prequels as in Sequels to Alien Covenant... where these would then OPEN-UP other connected movies to Expand the Franchise.

So it looked likely we would have had the Sequel to Alien Covenant.... and then potentially this branch off to a movie that Directly Connected to ALIEN.... but then leaving the Door open for RS to have the series branch out for yet another Trilogy.  His War of the Worlds so to speak

Sorry Xenotaris you beat me to it :) 

I agree, I like this hierarchy too, though BigDave's idea seems more eerie and alien

BigDave 

The Drone Xenomorph i had the inclination that this is what Gestates from a Xenomorph Embryo when the Embryo is  away from the HIVE/Cargo of Eggs.   

Love it! Brilliant and chilling purpose for the drone!

In some of the expanded universe novels, comics and games there is also the Praetorian strain. A sort of heir-in-waiting juvenile Queen whom acts as an honour guard to the sitting Queen. When the Queen dies or is slain the Praetorian ascends as the Queen. 

http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Praetorian

Above the Queen is the Queen's Mother and Empress Queen (The Ancient Queens) and they are succeeded by the Palatine strain.

Praetorian 

@BigDave 

I've always liked the Sierra/Monolith's Xenomorph hierarchy structure from Aliens versus Predator 2/Primal Hunt.

If warriors are more matured drones as Cameron stated:

Drone > Warrior > Praetorian > Queen > Empress

I believe if the only queen is absent from the hive, then perhaps the most oldest warrior would molt into a praetorian than into a proper Queen. Although we didn't see any Praetorians in the Alien films unfortunately. Perhaps Hadley's Hope didn't have a big enough hive to need praetorians? Yet again, I mean after all praetorians were basically young queens that haven't developed neither a resin throne nor an ovipositor (egg sac)

I completely agree.  I think RS's original idea of investigating the motives of the Engineers was the driver for everything else.  But the train jump the tracks and we're left with a psychotic robot.  I loved the Engineers but we got to see so little of them.  Unfortunately, we may not get to see much more.  I think to count on one movie to tie this back to Alien and for it to be successful is a lot to hope for considering the convoluted trail it took to get here (note all the re-writes and scope changes that have occurred in Prometheus and AC).  It would take someone with a lot of ability to fix the boat at this point.  Just my opinion.  

Id agree that most aren't too into the whole thing being about David. the company fitted in nicely to the original films as a side plot, a sinister conspiracy plot behind the main movie focus but the beast was still the main focal point. theyv put far to much onto David and totally sacrificed the engineers for no real reason. the SJ in the derelict has become nothing more than a bitch species

ali81

Yes it is, and I would rather see that then another technology is 95% evil or how robots are immortal despite being decapitated in the previous movie. But the reversal of roles would be interesting.

"if u go back to alien, nothing happens for over 45 mins but was any of it boring?"

Certainly agree.... i think this is why Alien Covenant had its similar slow burn start....   and Alien Covenant was actually NOT that bad.. until David arrived and took them to the Cathedral Dome, it was at this point a lot of the Plot Revolved around David and Walter and the Human Characters just become Plot Devices.....

From when David had taken Oram into the Egg Room and until the END of the movie, all the Scenes/Plot points from this point were Rushed because there was so much to cover in such a Short Space of Time.  Hence the Necessity for the Quicker Xenomorph Gestation Time.

From when David and Oram enter Davids Work-Shop is where the movie needed a extra 45 minutes to do every Scene/Plot after this JUSTICE.... so its shame for such a short time to cram so little in.

I think this would be a bit Popcorn/Comics take on the Franchise...  maybe we cant rule out seeing the Xenomorph Evolved to be able to use such Technology but i think it takes away the HORROR/ALIEN Element of the Organism.

I certainly would be up for introducing a Species that are similar to the Xenomorphs as in a Bio-Mechanical/HR Giger Aesthetic that have more Advanced Technology and even maybe suggest our Engineers had Stolen/Re-Engineered from this Species.

But i think you point was in Aliens as in a Alien Species and so indeed if this is the case, its something i think that could be introduced and you have to WONDER did RS have this in mind when he came the Whole WAR OF THE WORLDS comment... and how he Felt the Alien Franchise could take some hints from the Star Wars Franchise... so maybe MULTIPLE Alien Species?

I think RS with his Prequels and the Engineers linked to Genetic Space Gardeners... was something more than him just seeing the Franchise limited to Humans, Engineers, and Synthetics and various Xenomorph/Black Goo Bio-Weapons/Organisms.

IG, is that not alien meets congo then? lol

if u go back to alien, nothing happens for over 45 mins but was any of it boring? hell no. I do agree the script was poorly written but I feel there are a mixture of things affecting AC from bad writing to horrendous casting but the under lying truth is we the fans have to shoulder a large proportion of the blame here. for me there is no sci-fi issues that affect AC, its the worst film in the franchise by a long way due to the studio playing it safe due to the Prometheus backlash (which I don't actually get but I loved Prometheus so im bias) and the hope of pleasing the unhappy. I think Prometheus and RS are getting some of the recognition it deserves now for where it was trying to go but how sad is it that the sequel had to be ruined for that to happen.

I would still say there is no QUEEN/KING as per-say in the Franchise.

By that i think its ideal to look at the Organism as having NO Sex.

So by this then indeed the KING as far as its Aesthetics could be something that could be introduced but for it to only been seen as more of a Advanced Queen or maybe a Evolution of the Xenomorph that By-Passes the Queen Stage.... and so a Organism that Impregnates a Host Directly.... and so it Functions as a Face Hugger, so that there is NO NEED for the Egg/Face Hugger Stage.

But then we have seen this before with the Pred-Alien in AVPR

IF.... we explore the KING as in the Sideshow Model and introduce this to the Franchise, i dont think it would fit a purpose of MATING with Xenomorph Queens as we are shown this is NOT needed.

But instead having this KING as a Evolution of the Species and a Organism that has Hosts Brought to it where it can Impregnate them directly with a  Xenomorph Embryo.. would be something maybe that could be explored....   Certainly FITTING to HR Gigers twisted/surreal mind.

Where Hosts are brought to the KING to in effect be Raped by the Beast!