Comments (Page 355)
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"As for Scott, let him make a movie about David for $200 million and let the audiences show him how "ahead of the curve" he truly is when the movie bombs."
I think it depends what could be meant by BOMBED i agree that a David movie would not make a lot of money back because as a Stand Alone Story it would have been interesting... maybe made money but as it is TAGGED on with the ALIEN Franchise the Prequels are going to get the NON Alien fans not interested because they will think its another done to death Alien movie.
On the other hand the Fanboys would not be interested because they want Xenomorphs and Queens which have been done to death quite frankly... So you have to come up with something a bit different.
I think RS was very correct with his comment..... in hindsight they should not have caved in to Fan Demand and give them "%$£$&&% Aliens" as RS put it.... Prometheus should have been a Franchise that stepped away from ALIEN... Ridley Scott was right, and the direction taken was Right!
The Problems are as follows..
1) The Alien Fans would expect a Alien Movie with Answers, a lot could not accept Prometheus was a attempt at doing something else, about the Engineers/Space Jockey and to open up a Universe that is more than a Bio-Weapon Xenomorph.
2) The Problem with this was the Engineers were just not as awe-inspiring as the Space Jockey Mystery, but Prometheus laid down Foundations to fix this problem... by going away from ALIEN and introducing something with the Engineers that us more fitting to the Space Jockey.
3) Prometheus needed to have given more clues to the Mystery that was LV-426 and should have been Marketed more as a Separate Franchise or made it clearer the franchise would steer away from the LV-426 event... but had to give a bit more clues
4) The Franchise needed to expand with New Similar Monsters however, or come up with something else Epic like Multiple-Humanoid Races.
5) The David as Creator while touching on all the Philosophy was a mistake, David should have Created his OWN more Superior Version.
At the Moment its hard to Gauge where they can Rescue this...
A RS set of Prequels may make a Good Movie (BR 2049) but it may likewise not make a great profit......
A Fanboy Aliens type movie may or may not do well at the Box Office, mainly because i feel the Xenomorph in AC has taken even more credibility away from the Xenomorph, and a Blomkamp Alien 3 Re-boot where we have Ripley, Newt and Xenomorphs... MAY please Fanboys but would it be anything more than a Nostalgia?
I think there is POTENTIAL with a movie that ties into ALIEN ISOLATION a movie set maybe 20-30 years after where we discover the True Depths the Company would go to in order to obtain the Xenomorph and WHY only Hadleys Hope is the only Avenue for the Xenomorph by the time of ALIENS.... a movie or set of movies that will END showing us that Amanda Ripleys Death is NOT the Death that Ellen Ripley had discovered in ALIENS.
The only other option is a Prequel... set 10 years after Alien Covenant, where we can be introduced to the Engineers or another related Race, who eventually see Davids Xenomorph as something to EVOLVE and give us the Bio-Mechanical Xenomorph... thus David plays the role as the Middle Man in its Creation... But that it all began with the Engineers and ENDED with the Engineers input.
Well we could use it's head exoskeleton as a soup bowl.
Can you imagine a flatworm style Xenomorph, as it breaks it's body to create more xenomorphs?
A few corrections:
1. Ozymandias was not praised in the poem. There only a monument of his was excavated and an on it David lines were written. But he was only a fool as time has long forgotten him and his deeds. The same faith awaits him, making him only a delusional tyrant.
2. Giger was a painter/sculptor, he did not write novels. You might be talking about his art companion, but it is very well known that the xenomorph prototype was in it. Alien Covenant has the least to do with Giger (only maybe David's drawing of Shaw, even those were toned down because Fox didn't want to pay royalties) from the whole 6 movies.
3. The term Necronomicon originates in HP Lovecraft's stories, as a magic book, containing pre-human knowledge, but even that is a bit far from Covenant, where we learn that the xenomorph was a byproduct of David's Mendel style experiments with the black goo. (Where is the ancient knowledge there?)
IgnorantGuy: It could work, it could be really messy.
Is the point of the Ward script that it is better to not be able to shit than to die from an assburster? Rule number one: to survive this it is an advantage to be constipated. (The movie begins) The survival of the most constipated
I'm pretty sure will have an @$$ burster scene as we have already chest bursting, back bursting and mouth bursting. Just be patient.
"As for Scott, let him make a movie about David for $200 million and let the audiences show him how "ahead of the curve" he truly is when the movie bombs."
LMAO! Yeah, I don't give a damn about a movie like that. Oh well, at least we have 1, 2, and 3 if the whole prequel thing turns into crap which it seems like it will do right now.
They should at least throw away the most stupid things that Scott has been trying to add as far as the story is concerned. One thing is David as the creator of the Xeno, that sucks.
She died from boredom by having to watch the flute scene in AC over and over again. ;)
I am not sure which one is worse - Alien Covenant or Resurrection.
That is the reason why I have not posted a lot here, a lack of new threads. I could probably try to think of something but sometimes I am not sure what to write.
Exactly DK: Why have we not seen any one take a shit in an alien movie? We have had the movies since 1979.
Iraptus: Yeah they discussed the Vincent Ward script in the Perfect Organism podcast, that detail was nasty.
wow, there really wasn't a toilet in any Alien films hahaha!
Vincent Ward at least attempted to explore this topic in his Alien 3 script.....
But then his script also featured Sheepymorphs with a face in its bums, so go figure
In lean times, sometimes one must dig deep to keep things going. If it's pondering Engineer TP, so be it lol.
The only thing I care about out related to A L I E N is the sequel to Covenant. Aside from that, I don't care one bit. Already own all the films. Just make the next one happen so we can close the loop Ridley! A bottle of Laphroaig it waiting for you!
@udoudo Just change your name on your original profile. Having 2 separate profiles is against TOS unfortunately. If you can no longer access your original profile, i'll be happy to help you with that. :)
if that's what floats ur boat then by all means but I just find the deeper questions more appealing rather than what does an engineer wipe his ass with? lol
ignorantGuy See? There is stuff to talk about :)
dk The Engineers were human (genetically) in Prometheus, so of course the would be carnivorous and in AC you see the Jumbo wheat that they plant possibly to cook break. They most likely also eat fruit (as suggested in the AC prologue draft).
Not making light of the OP, but there are always things to ask about. It can even be silly stuff like noticing how we never saw a toilet in an Alien movie. Or the Engineers' diet- their teeth looked like ours so some must have been omnivores at least. Why would the Engineer from Prometheus even require teeth? Just throw ideas out there and see if it starts a conversation.
I'd still like to see a Luke Scott face-hugged figure if we talk about merch, c'mon Fox. Or a statue of Morgan chasing Scalia.
Hello Xenokay
I really like this issue, I am convinced that in the sequel we will have the derelict of alien1979, but something continues as if there will be many other derelicts to see, here's how to conquer the galaxy of Advent.
I'd like to have a sequel that goes beyond 1979, an indirect sequel that strikes David's epic until the whole saga's circle is closed.
in total I expect 4 films.
"Au Revoir Shoshanna"
I agree that there appeared to be a spherical-shaped protection provided by the larger ship. The urns seem to shatter against it and the cloud/swarm made it's way around it.
I also really enjoyed this scene AdamPD. It is hard to understand what we're seeing...I feel that is how an alien environment should look to me.
Yes Seeder9. The Engineers most certainly could see way beyond what the humans could in regards to heat and other signatures (see Walter's heat signature below).
The LV-223 Engineer's suits/skin was a radical mutation and/or technology that protected it from weapons and I can only assume that the Engineer's sight is as radically improved as it's skin and it could see way beyond the visible spectrum available to the human eye.
Captain Oram's heat signature is below.
So, the first difference that the Engineer might notice is the heat signature of the faces speaking to him and notice the differences in David beginning with this unique heat signature.
Also, the Weyland-Yutani Report refers to the LV-223 Engineers as "Sentient". The Weyland-Yutani Report doesn't reconcile perfectly to the films and novels but this item on the Engineers stuck out.
Hello King Goo. I'm sorry I missed your topic on this script just months ago that covered so much of the main script concepts. I was most excited about the link to LV-426.
You are so accommodating BigDave. Thank you. I went back and researched a little and you had covered this back in 2013 going forward a few times.
I noticed the quote regarding the "predator" canons and I thought it might be attributed to an early draft of the script Lindelof wrote before Scott's frowned on any Predator mention. And you're certainly correct regarding a lack of confirmation from Lindelof on the script authenticity.
As we see just before The Engineer decapitates David, he looks upon David with what appears to be affection. Or at least *identification*. He clearly had nothing of the sort for the humans. Only David.
@BigDave
One of my theories is also that the LV-223 Engineers were in fact organic AI's , created by the Planet 4 Engineers, perhaps through sophisticated cloning, DNA editing and genetic manipulation procedures developed by them in the distant past in order to create an army of deep space work horses. Living, breathing, thinking AI's. Engineered to serve, but they grew increasingly aware and began to revolt long ago. Perfecting their own biology and advancing Engineer technology exponentially. But there was a split. A faction that was more benevolent. The "sacrificial Engineers". And a faction (Destroyer Engineer) that set out to undo its creators creations by prepping locations such as LV-223 as the launching points of galaxy-wide genocide. Perhaps the morbid cleansing method that involved violent removal of planetary fauna via vicious creatures was their idea and creation as a part of their rebellion. There are many Juggernauts stored on LV-223 along with several temples housing unknown quantities & differing formulations of pathogen. It was clearly stated by David in Covenant that a single application of pathogen would render an entire planet inhabitable, so the LV-223 Engineers must have been gearing up for numerous strikes.
I like a twist where the sacrificial Engineer faction seeks to save the humanoid inhabited worlds by performing a mountain top ritual on LV-223 before injesting a version of the goo that morphs them into Deacons/Ultramorphs which then break into and rampage through the temple, wiping most of them out and thwarting the genocide attempt.
One Destroyer Engineer gets a Juggernaut into orbit but he's infected and sets down on nearby LV-426. The rest is history.....
I don't think there was any time of shield that the payload hit. Maybe the turbulence of deploying the payload causes it to erupt/detonate when dropped? Clearly David activated the procedure for deploying it so imo it just detonated/deployed at a certain height. Prometheus clearly stated that the ampules needed to be stored at a certain tempature or they become extremely unstable. I would imagine deploying the URNS/Ampules into the atmosphere changed the ambient tempature thus the activation of the goo.
Fifield and Millburn find a large pile of deceased and EXPLODED Engineers
As far as i am aware.... Lindeloffs Acknowledged draft does not have a explanation of the scene where Milburn and Fifield discover the piles of Bodies... the apparent Fan Edit touches on the scene in the movie and adds a few extra words... i also began to add a few to my Re-write that was not to dissimilar to what this Fan Edit has.. (i was emphasizing on the suits appearing to be Hollow).
So the Fan Edit adds a few lines... but also adds some that make it certain its a Fan Edit
"FIFIELD What do you think caused them to explode? Predator canons?"
But back to the subject of those Engineers, indeed they were pilled up and as they said like some kind of Holocaust painting, i had detailed my view on this scene and earlier Engineer Body a long time ago.
Looking at the Exploding Head, the Sacrificial Scene and Shaws comments about Ebola... and noticing some of the suits appeared Hollow, it was my conclusion the Engineers had been infected with the Black Goo, and this substance was breaking them down like the Sacrificial Engineer... to a degree...
The Sacrificial Engineer Scene we see his body breaks down, the substance causes a Violent Reaction... If this Engineer was inside a Space Jockey Suit the Violent Reaction and Chemical Soup that becomes of the Engineer would be contained within the Pressured Container that is the Space Jockey Suit.
If we look at this as how a Minto is put into Cola and causes a Reaction and Build up of Gas... this Gas tries to escape by what ever means it can... any flaws in the Bottle... so a Cap not on tight, any Holes in the Bottle that are covered up by say Chewing Gum/Glue or Tape.. would eventually give way to the pressure inside and the Liquid explodes from these defects/holes.
I think THIS is what causes those Engineer Suits to have those Holes. Within context to Prometheus.... Fast Forwards to Alien Covenant and we see those Engineers being attacked by the Black Goo and imagine if there bodies eventually disintegrated instead of turn to like STONE and we can imagine such a Reaction Contained in the Space Jockey Suits would cause the Black Goo to explode.. and the Engineers bodies inside to be NO MORE...
A thing to consider is these Engineer Bodies had maybe been worked on as part of Jon Spaights Draft, where the Bodies where to show some had suffered Chest Buster Wounds and others Wounds caused by Adult Stage Chest Busters...
But Prometheus had a different route with the Black Goo and the Props were Empty inside (makes them lighter and less material used) and the Empty suits fits nice with the Black Goo especially if the end result would be similar to what remained of the Sacrificial Engineer.
I will however discus the videos you have made Ingeneiro
Hieroglyphs in the Green Substance on Panel
There certainly appeared to be something in the Goo on the Control Panel, Nano Particles at least, it was hard to make out if there are any Hieroglyphs however.... But David found the substance interesting, and we get the impression this was more than just a Slime...
While there is NO definite Evidence of Hieroglyphs we can maybe go back to Lindeloff's idea's/clues (in the Officially Acknowledged draft) which with the scene where they arrive at the Panel, Lindeloff begins to hint to us that David sees something the others dont, eventually he touches up on this more... and its a explanation of Jon Spaights ideas that the Engineers and David can see things in the air/around Technology that are like Hieroglyphs the Engineers manipulate but these are invisible to Human Eye... But Watts (Shaw) in Spaights draft gets to see them after she adapts a Space Jockey Suit/Engineer Lens.
So the idea was that around the Technology Control Panels were Characters/Hieroglyphs that act like some Advanced Input Device, like a Keyboard but the Characters are suspended floating around the Control Panels... that can be manipulated by the Engineers.
So going back to Prometheus, we can see to pull this kind of Special Effect off, may have been a bit hard... and so replacing it with a GOO that has something inside it that controls the Panels is very Logical and so indeed Hieroglyphs or at very least something that is used to interact and activate the Engineers Technology is very likely.
Janek, "You know what this place is? Hell."
The 2011 Fake Draft adds a few words of Dialog to help explain what Janek was talking about, my Prometheus Re-write i did the same kind of thing very close actually, by adding few words here and there to lessen the Ambiguity.... But going only by Prometheus and Lindeloffs confirmed draft..
Indeed the dialog of Janek between Vickers and then Shaw, is providing us more clues/answers than we see visually, a key with Prometheus always was not what we see... but taking note of Character Dialog as they are providing the answers and we need to read into them.
So indeed this Place was used to Manufacture and Test that Black Goo, well certainly at some period in Time it become a place to Test/Create this Biological Warfare.... until one day something may have accidentally got spilled.... but there are clues to suggest maybe Sabotage or even a Direct Attempt to Stop what they was doing may have happened.
I WILL ATTEMPT to look at all the videos...
I will add i looked at one of the videos posted explaining the Space Jockey, and the 13 Foot Unsuited and 15ft Suited Engineers.... Lindeloffs official Draft the Engineers are described at 12 Feet Plus, there is no Mention of 13ft.... they was referred to as 15ft in Jon Spaights Alien Engineers. Lindeloff had commented before about how the intentions where a taller race, but that got revised down to 9-10ft tall as of prior to Shooting etc.
The 13-15ft is a good size guide for the Space Jockey, many years ago i had a detailed look and compared scale of the Space Jockey Prop and i concluded the Space Jockey was likely 13ft Tall, no more than 15ft Tops as the Prop Length inc Chair was just over 16ft. Maybe thats where the 13-15ft came from? If the Fan who Edited the Draft had came across discussions on here ;)
However with Alien Engineers 15ft Race and Paradises 12ft + its safe to assume the Original Idea was a 12-15ft Ball Park.... which Sadly due to RS not wanting to use any Effects.... pulling off and fooling us to think the Engineers are 12-15ft to match the Space Jockey was just not feasible... In Hindsight Ridley Scott could have used the same trickery we saw in the HOBBIT and LORD OF THE RINGS Franchises.
This draft has been discussed a few times before, while it offers some depth, it does kind of contradict a few clues in Prometheus, there are also a number of mistakes....
This draft has NEVER been officially acknowledged by Lindeloff, it has been suspected as a FAN EDIT and i think this is 90% likely the case.
HOWEVER.... it does offer some good expansion to the Story, it is kind of not how i interpreted Prometheus, but with the arrival of Alien Covenant and the Advent Viral, these maybe do match this Drafts Take on Prometheus rather than my OWN take.
I do still feel this Draft is Fake... but it has some interesting things to debate
I can be a bit like Dallas. He's just so calm and confident and believes in the rules. He also has a little hero in him. Sadly, he thought he knew what the alien was, but in reality, he didn't. If he would've known what it really was, he wouldn't have gone looking for it.
I do want to say I'm like Daniels because she favors the known over the unknown.
Either one of them. Daniels and Dallas are similar in ways. If I had to pick between the two, though, I would pick...
Dallas. His personality just seems similar to mine.
I heard this script is a fan made... Not an official one. True ?
I don't think Babe was alive in the burst scene. It looked rather stiff as if rigor mortis set in. I also noted no signs of breathing when it was briefly shown still.
Agreed.The Alien theory video doesn't give any insight as to why babe keeled over,but it does highlight some interesting things about the Royal Facehuggers reproductive capabilities that could perhaps give an idea as to why though.
The Hosts Idea is something some have shared before, its something GAVIN is a big fan of, certainly would have been more plausible if Prometheus had the Sacrificial Scene, the same as in Alien: Engineers, where the Sacrifice leads to Engineer DNA infecting a Primate = Humans.
The whole Prometheus Sacrificial Scene indicated this Scene was either the Start of Life on Earth, where the Engineer provided the Building Blocks... or the Catalyst for Basic Life to Evolve to more Complex (which is how i saw it).
But if this Scenes Agenda was to Create Humanoids purely for HOSTS i find it a bit of a LONG investment in time, especially why we needed to Evolve to a Certain Point of Intelligence to render any use for the Xenomorph... i think Humans even prior to the Great Pyramids would have made just as suitable Hosts as even Modern day Hosts.
This CHANGES if the Xenomorph takes on Memories/Knowledge of its Hosts.. but even then, i think Mankind prior to 2000 years ago would have been prime pickings for Harvest.
But its ONE theory that Can-not be ruled out, especially if we interpret some of Davids comments in the Advent Viral a certain way.
Ridley Scott has said the Engineers are Genetic Space Gardeners, and so Harvesting is part of Gardening to a degree... and so Fruit need time to Ripen...
I think it depends on WHY would they create us, and also WHY create the Xenomorph/Xeno-virus and with the Prequels the Ambiguity really helps us to have a broad range of theories.
Using us a Weapon well Hosts for a Weapon to be used in some Galactic War... is plausible...
What maybe is more-plausible... is what if we was intended as such, but thats what LV-223 was, but after a War/Rebellion some Engineers decided to take us from LV-223 and let us Populate Earth, Free provided we Worshiped them... so the Mural could be saying.
WE SAVED YOU FROM THIS PLACE...
The Wonderful thing is we cant come up with a ONE SIZE fits all theory and so it allows for many theories, which gives a lot of debate and Scope for the franchise.
The kind of idea i proposed would have been the route i would have taken.... by having David and Dr Shaw Travel VERY Far from Earth, the Franchise revolved around a distance of less than 40LY from Earth, Alien Covenant has opened up the Door for Locations to be within 9 years travel from Earth with what ever Technology the Covenant has, as far as FLT Travel..... to me this is TOO CLOSE to our Door Step...
Having the Engineers World being 1000's of Light Years away, helps to cover Plot Holes like WHY not Engineers Returned.... We could have gone to a World where we are introduced to Humans, as we are shown in Prometheus, can we assume EARTH is the only World with Humans? or Humanoids?
We could have gone to a World, discovered Humans and not Engineers and reveal these Humans Overthrown the Engineers, maybe they kept some Engineers as Captives/Slaves... it would then show us INDEED why the Engineers attempted to Eradicate Mankind.
It could have introduced us to Xenomorph type Organisms, showed us clues to how these are created and by doing see we would get enough answers to WHAT leads to the Xenomorph on LV-426... without ever having to go there and contradict anything.
WASTED Potential.... Limited Creative Talent Unfortunately.
The route as above, could have been EPIC... we get to have Human Characters via Virtue of discovering that EARTH was not the only place that had Mankind....
Traveling SOOOOO FAR away from LV-223/426 would be easy in Engineers Ships, and explain such distances would be out of reach for Earth Humans in the Alien Universe...
We could have expanded on this idea, by having it lead to some of these other HUMANS set off for Earth, and arrive after the events of Alien Resurrection or even hint prior and maybe these HUMANS came to Earth to Dominate over Humanity on Earth.
HOWEVER.... by Having the Engineers Home-world on our Door Step, limited what could be done, and offers contradictions and in-continuity errors. It also means they have to Shoe-horn events to Alien.
So Sadly a Wasted Potential...
Indeed I MOON GIRL
There are many ways to look at Prometheus, its Philosophy was very good, and to me it did seem to be covering a lot about Creation, Rebellion by Creation, then Retribution by Creator that leads to their Hubris... then the Creation then Sub-Creating of their own and REPEAT
It was always interesting to ponder at what Layer/Hierarchy are the Engineers and so its easy to see maybe a pattern had occurred prior to even the Engineers. Prometheus is just so WONDERFUL in the a,ambiguity of it all, especially the Full Scenes as they painted a bigger picture....
The Last Engineer seemed to have Pity on David, but realized he had to be dismembered, it gave me the impression of WHERE those LV-223 Engineers, Engineered Super Engineers, and like Replicants to their Hierarchy, Superior to their Creators and they Rebellled against their purpose, over thrown their Creators... so in David the Engineer sees a reflection of himself... but he knows what his own kind/faction had done against their Hierarchy and Knew he had to destroy David.
Another few things the Full Scenes show is that maybe that Engineer Sabotaged the Mission?, he appeared to be very interested in Dr Shaw, but when he saw how Weyland was behaving he realized Mankind is still a Selfish and Wicked Race.... but left us wondering did he CHANGE his mind about our Destruction? The Actual Pilot Room Construction Plans and Schematics have his Cryo-Pod as the HERO CHAMBER while the other 3 are Chest Busted... a Hero for who? US?
Also we can look at how he was interested in Dr Shaw, and even after the Crash, he could have easily killed her... but this Agenda to Kill was dominant in the Theatrical Cut.... The Deleted Scenes could get us to THINK more, and wonder WHY would a Engineer be so interested in Dr Shaw?
If these Engineers were created like David or Engineered for a Purpose and they could not Create themselves (Procreate) or if their Race had lost that ability, it would give a good reason for being intrigued by Dr Shaw, it would also give a good reason for Worshiping the Deacon Mural as it allowed a Engineer to Give Birth to Life.. It also allowed us to ponder was the Sacrificial Scene a chosen route to eventually Re-gain Female Humanoids to Procreate with.
But the Theatrical Cut limits the Scope a little.
Oh dang I just watched this Saturday and wondered the same thing. I guess the older I get, Alien 3 is not that bad. Just some really odd choices of cinematography.
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How would that work if they killed the character which mediated between the audience and the Engineers for a cheap shock?
Interesting idea from I Moon Girl, I think its about time we learned more about the Engineers than the 2 dimensional creatures we've seen so far. Remember that the whole point of RS pursuing Prometheus was to know more about the Engineers. We really have seen much about them, their motives (other than what RS tried to explain in interviews), etc. After all, I don't care about David in the least. In fact, I think its safe to say we know all there is to know about David. Now its time to know about the silent partner in this story. Just my opinion but I'm not interested in a psychopathic robot again. In reality, I don't know if anyone will tell the story of the Engineers at this point but we can only hope.
