Comments (Page 469)

@Leto

Indeed there was that information and also the company was aware of the LV-426 System i think in the year 2038 as far as the Weyland Industries Viral Website, but FOX have replaced this site since AC came about and it appears with AC, they are RE-WRITING some Canon, and so the Blu-ray extras i am afraid are no longer Canon. The same applies with a lot of David 8 Marketing for Prometheus as well.

Prometheus gave a lot of clues to the Space Jockey Fate, its just they was very vague... prior to Prometheus and i mean quite a lot of time prior RS had confirmed what happened to the Space Jockey, but with Prometheus RS had made some comments that further backed this up and added a few key points to it... giving us a Time-Frame and some hints to more details... 

But it appears with AC they have decided to U-Turn the Space Jockey Ancient Event into something much much more recent.

@Critters5

There are reports the Mural is just a Easter Egg and no more... but to me it looked more like the Deacon than the Xenomorph and my Interpretation is the Engineers Encountered a Organism/Paradise or some event/experiments that lead to something that is the Ancestor to the Xenomorph, this was either the Mural Deacon, or the Mural Deacon was further Experiments on this ANCESTOR

Alien Covenant has evolved it so as that now the Xenomorph is a Evolutionary Path via the Black Goo and Davids Experiments upon this.  Thus if the Engineers Worshiped and saw Held the Deacon in the Mural in High Regard.... if they see DAVIDS Xenomorph, they may see this as a more Perfected Evolution of the Mural Deacon and take a interest in it.

@cuponator3000

Indeed i also think there is a chance that Synthetic Material will come into play for how we get from Davids Xenomorph to the Alien Xenomorph, it just appears to be the most easy and logical route now.

I think this is one of the very interesting concepts... the portrayal of the Engineers, and again a lot has evolved over the years regarding direction and plans for the Franchise, from the inception of ideas that lead to Jon Spaights Alien Engineers... to what we have now, who knows what has been changed over and over.

Does RS and Co even know what they are doing?  With all the changes of direction, or is there a actual plan?

I think a lot depends on how people interpret Prometheus and the Clues since and Ridley Scotts comments, and then its a case of have they (RS and FOX) changed the route/plan and ideas from Prometheus?

I had mentioned a number of times in the Run up to Alien Covenant, we need to consider what is Paradise?

Paradise has a number of different interpretations depending upon which Religion/Mythos you look at.

During the run up to Alien Covenant, Ridley Scott had more times than most referred to the Engineers as Fallen Angels and mentioned the Paradise Lost Poem a number of times... THEREFORE if we look at Paradise as in context to the Paradise Lost and Biblical Sense then here are a few things to CONSIDER

PARADISE: Is not where GOD comes from.

PARADISE: Is not where the ANGELS come from.

PARADISE: Is the Cradle of Civilization (Mankind's Ancestry).

PARADISE: Is watched over/guarded by the Cherubim Angels.

If we look at it in this context i think maybe things could start to make more sense.... 

There is a difference between the LV-223/Sacrificial Engineers and those on Planet 4, the Question is this difference on purpose?  or just another RS Oversight much like the Engineers Size?

Those beings on Planet 4 seemed to live a life much like Ancient Mankind, they posses Technology but they seem to only use it for a limited number of things and SHUN the Technology much like Buddhist Monks do. The Cathedral Dome seemed to be a place of Great Importance and a MASSIVE building. The Top of it appeared to have some kind of TECHNOLOGY.  This place seemed to offer a Sanctuary to the Engineers and a large number of them were trying to Enter this Place before it SEALED itself off.  We can assume a number of Engineers remained inside and survived for some time.

Inside we have the Hall of Heads, and what appears to be a Sacrificial Table....  RS had mentioned to those who visited the Set, that the heads represented the Wise Men, Apostles and Superior Beings (Superior to Mankind or the Engineers?) and another member of Production called them the HIERARCHY

The Engineers on Planet 4, also seemed to be amazing in hundreds of thousands to welcome back a Engineer Ship and appeared oblivious to the threat it posed.. (there are maybe 3 possible reasons for this, but thats for another Topic).   The Juggernaught was approaching the Hanger and it was opening up and this HANGER had Statues around it at 12/3/6/9 o'clock and these Statues are Pretty much the same as Buddhist Offering Statues.

The Deleted Scenes, which we maybe cant take as Canon, did show us that the Hanger already had Engineer Ships and so the Purpose of those Ships in Context to WHY and HOW often they arrive at Planet 4 and what relation they have with LV-223 is the BIG QUESTION.

So i think it would be interesting to explore this more, and RS has said Engineers will return back to Planet 4 to find the Destruction left behind, because THEY return every now and again... so a BIG Question has to be WHY and WHERE do they go or come from.

Its all very ambiguous still and could be explored in a number of ways, but indeed The Burning Question would be WHERE does the Advanced Engineer Technology come from and WHY is it only used so sparingly on Planet 4

If PARADISE is like the Biblical One, and Planet 4 is Paradise, then this place is NOT the Home world of the Engineers well certainly not the HIERARCHY above them.

They(Fox) don't have/own the rights to Giger's library and style. Gonna co$t big bucks to make any world 'Gigeresque'.

Kickstart a fund to buy the rights?

Agreed on the Engineer homeworld being beautifully Gigeresque!

Ati shared some great artwork that could be totally used as concept art for said homeworld, such as this beauty!

http://www.alien-covenant.com/topic/47051

An easier way to get screen time dedicated to making the more bio-mechanical Xenomorph is to have David construct a synthetic. Whether it is just like him or more of a construct (such as Elden [was not a fan of that] or even Replicants), that is the easy way to plant the seeds and build to the bio-mechanical Xenomorph in the finale. They can weave the ideas in a nice cinematic fashion. 

Bigdave great points, but how could they come to admire David's work when you already have a xenomorph in the mural (which may be nothing more than a props to Giger?)

Bigdave, makes sense :) 

One of the pilots said that Orgae 6 is less hospitable than Planet 4 while the captain was deciding whether or not to go to Planet 4. 

same here. the idea I loved most was post Prometheus that the engineers we saw in the bio-mechanical suits were more a militant faction. maybe their society was similar to ours in that the normal inhabitants are just day to day working family raising joe's but they have a military might that happens to be capable of space travel. I still the fact the engineers r tens if not hundreds of thousands of years ahead of us, the fact they got smoked so easily just makes them look like pussies.

Agreed. The Engineers on Planet 4 were very different from the, "aggressive f***ers" Scott described at one point. We will probably see the return of that kind of Engineer in the next film, if they do indeed factor into the plot (gotta take Scott's words with a grain of salt)

I wouldn't go as far to say it has killed it but it definitely hasn't done it any favours. its closed the doors opened by Prometheus and the director isn't going to help if he focuses solely on David. we will always have the original masterpiece and the excellent sequel so the franchise will always live on. I live in the hope that someone comes along and does something in a similar manner to what their thinking of doing with Blomkamp's film, and give us an alternative sequel to Prometheus. god I hate AC so much. sorry

I just think the fact its their home world and with all their tech it wasn't better defended makes them look weak. Ridley has described the engineers as a higher aggressive race and yet they last 2 mins. id like to think there are more worlds out there that have been colonised by the engineers. if they haven't then its a pretty stupid decision on their part and again they don't come off well after being portrayed originally as gods

It's unclear. I think that it probably was the homeworld, or what they CHOSE as their mainworld so it could be referred to the homeworld (out on a branch here haha.) I stick to that because Ridley Scott has been very consistent and rather adament about it begin their homeworld. I do agree that the decision to make the desgin more ancient human style (just on a huge, epic scale). They have explained it well, (behind the scenes and the commentary by Scott) but it doesn't make me want a nathmare-ish Gigeresque world any less. 

Although with the fact that the Engineers are supposed to factor back in and find out what David did on Planet 4, I think that we can maybe still get a glimpse of another world that is what we were told to expect when concepts for Prometheus 2 were being discussed

I look at the trailer as well but also who is in it and who directs it is big for me and I look at the genre. chick flicks and romance doesn't interest me in the slightest regardless who is in it or directing tbh. I think it helps with a big name but the most important thing is that the actor gets the ark of their character and can handle it regardless of how big or small a star they are. sorry to do this but just for reference. take Daniels and Ripley. Waterstone, a decent actress in previous movies and pretty well known. didn't do much for Daniels and was just one of the crew imo. Weaver. stage actress who wasn't known really on the scene. the rest is history. tbh with hind sight, id have rather seen Theron as Daniels. I think Daniels would have been a more meaningful character but I digress. if I see a 'ridley scott' movie for instance, I don't care whos in it. if the genre is right, im watching it. but then the trailers can get me. I didn't know the director for pacific rim but man was I watching that. so in closing, I don't think any 1 thing matters. its a combination of things that suits the individuals personal pallet

I hate the thought that it was their home world. with their technology and being portrayed in Prometheus as gods, they just come out as weak in covenant. I can handle them being mortal but I was expecting much much more out of the engineers. theyv been badly used so far imo

i don't see covenant being either an alien film or a Prometheus sequel. it feels to me just what it is. RS changing his mind on direction to focus on david and forcing the xeno and neo in just to justify the alien brand. the monsters, though looking great, were pointless. there was no horror. by that I mean compare what the xeno does in alien. it stalks its prey. its hard to kill and the director shocks us by making us use our imaginations. I cant say covenant did any of this. the monsters got killed off easily. one by a giant claw. what did that do fo the beast? nothing.

the reason I like Prometheus so much is it was fresh. it was different. what makes the dark horse comics so good is that they explore the explanded universe and delves into the mystery behind the scenes. Prometheus is the first film in the franchise that opened the doors for directors to go and explore these things on screen. the possibilities were endless after Prometheus and AC should have grabbed the ball and ran with it. it should have been an epic. AND IT SUCKED. crap characters and average acting. well designed beasts wasted on screen by being killed too easily and one just disappearing altogether. and then theres the engineers. shown as gods in the first film n stepped on in minutes in the second. another missed opportunity. the problem for me is that with AC and Ridleys comments, it seems apparent to all he doesn't care much for the beast anymore or doesn't know what to do with it so hes changed focus to the synthetic. the easy option. its lazy and isn't what alien is about. its about the beast and now thanks to Prometheus, an expanded universe. yet wer getting Blade runner spin offs.

there IS a happy medium. a compromise there where we can have the beast, the engineers and how David fits into it all but RS, imo, doesn't know how to do it or fox arnt willing to back him. I hate AC for 2 reasons. I was soooooo pumped to see it. the advertising was perfect. those trailers and all the spots they released were done so well I don't see them doing as well with the run up to awakening and that's just a testament to how good a job the did. and we got a mash up, rushed film that took a huge dump on the expanded universe. imo we got 2 decent performances in Fassbender and McBride. the rest were average for me. I feel so let down by RS in the perceived path hes taking but still holding out hope he can turn it around. as I said there is still room for all elements in the franchise. its just a matter of ridley focusing on the right element and blending everything else around it

The embryos don't go down easy, that's what all the white goo is for.

Fair point Thoughts Dreams.I'm part of a couple Alien fan groups on Facebook and a majority of the fans there do indeed dislike both films.Tough love kinda,they often give anyone a hard time that likes Covenant and Prometheus.Even going as far it's common sense to dislike these movies.

Ali81 go for it.I've had a bad week and can use a good laugh lol 

I would like to see more disgusting creatures as well in the next movie - not just this beautiful Eldena. :D

Dark Nebula

That Canyon image is very scary. Is that a real photo?

Nice images. :)

Timmy the ultramorph

Thx! That's true - but those satan-legged robots would look awesome in David's personal droid army as well.

And we shouldn't forget that now we are far away from confirmed facts.

I'm sure 'Awakening' won't be the title of the Covenant sequel.

And they can change anything... anytime...

Plus I'm sure nothing about Cov 2 will be announced in 2017. Star Wars 8 is coming...

Wow... Two weeks and Star Wars 8 arrives...

Nobody mentions this beautiful pet. :D

IRaptus

'Force them to survive with someone they dislike.'

Exciting situation!

Ingeniero - Thx for mentioning my topic.

What about the fact that the Blu-Ray Prometheus contains additional materials (letters). One letter contains a record that says that WY knows about Delerict on LV-426 before the events of Prometheus. And, as we know, xeno on Derelict was a biomechanical.

So, I think, that David will not create a biomechanical xeno. And he will not fly to LV-426. Moreover - in this case, Alien Awakening even doesn't need to adjust to the timeline of the first Alien. in other words - I want to say that the RS trilogy is not a prequel to Alien. But a separate story in the same universe.

Or this letter is just doesn't matter and RS will trying to create a xeno/LV-426/Derelict/timeline in AW. Will see.

P.S. In Alien79, in the movie itself show/mention/talking about a time when Nostromo meet Alien?

firstimage is absolutly perfect for engineer homeworld

cool images. this one seems very blomcamp/district 9 style. perfect for an alien five type thing.

Kait Kybar:

@Timmy

I think for sure, the Xenomorph Hive could Evolve to have such things, but i think if they are going the route of the Xenomorph Procreation being Perfect... Then i would assume the Queen can Produce Eggs via Asexual Reproduction (Parthenogenesis) i think Prometheus attempted this with the Hammerpedes, as Worms can Reproduce Asexually. 

I will study the OT Video and come back to this...

I can ponder from RS comments regarding the Planet 4 Engineers being the Original Ones, and then looking at the context of Biblical connections... and it gets me to ponder if RS claims those Engineers in Prometheus are the Fallen Angels..   And he did not want to meet GOD in the first movie (removal of the Elders Scene) and then on the set of AC he claimed the Hall of Heads (which looked like the Elders) are the Wise Men, Apostles, Superior Beings and the Hierarchy.

When we then look at Davids Story being similar to that of Lucifer, we can maybe make a connection between David and the Engineers on LV-223....   WHAT IF... the Original Engineers Created a Race in their own image, these were the LV-223 Engineers these rebelled and was replaced by Mankind.

So the LV-223 Engineers hatred towards us, is the same as the Bible paints Fallen Angels dislike for Mankind.  The Engineers then created the Black Goo, or experimented with it to Create something intended to use against Mankind.

We now come to David who appears to have similar Motivations.

@ Big Dave. I find it all too easy to agree with what you are saying, and that’s what bothers me. What you have pointed makes a lot of sense and appears to be a very logical progression for the general storyline. Maybe it is a little too predictable for me and that’s where I have a problem. Has Ridley really become that predictable in his story telling, or would he look for a different way to tell the story?

“…..you can be sure they would do so NOW..”  When exactly is now?

When the Prometheus did not return, was anything done about it soon after? The reason for asking this question is that if a mission went to explore what had happened to the Prometheus, surely it would have happened before the Covenant went missing. This is where I feel there is room for introducing another aspect to the overall storyline. I think it might be a big enough window of opportunity to introduce something different

@Critters5

Maybe... i think and its only my interpretation, that we need to look at the Biblical Context and ask WHO are the Fallen Angles, they are a group of Angels who followed Lucifer in Rebellion against GOD... Lucifer was GOD's favored Creation at this point.... but he was made so Perfect and had been given Free-will that he saw no reason why he should be seen as lesser than his Creator.

GOD then created Adam, who GOD created Perfect, and so Adam was Gods newest and favored creation, and Lucifer/Satan would not worship Man as he saw Man as in superior to himself and the Angels.   And so he corrupted Mankind to fall from disfavor with GOD.

So what we have here is the Pursuit of Perfection and the consequences of this and we see this with the Engineers, Mankind and also David....  we have to then look at the Deacon Mural which seems to show those Engineers Worshiped the Deacon maybe as a sign of Perfection.

But messing about with this pursuit, Ultimately cost them dearly...

So maybe those above the Engineers or the Engineers themselves could come across Davids Creation and Witness the Evolution he has made with their Black Goo and come to Worship and see this as Perfect and then attempt to Experiment/Evolve it themselves which i think could lead to the Space Jockey Incident.

I think a lot has to do with how things have evolved...  Ridley Scott had prior to Prometheus explained what happened to the Derelict, and the Prequels were supposed to show us this, which would be that the Engineers had been experimenting with a Bio-Weapon (in various forms) to use on Mankind, but it got out of hand. Prometheus was toned down a little but the principle was the same.

RS and Lindeloff felt Prometheus had sufficient answers to those Questions and wanted to explore the Engineers and WHY they would create life and destroy life and WHO is at the top of the Chain... while also evolving Davids Arc.

Fans seemed to protest to parts of Prometheus and Alien 5 gained interest and so RS had to bring back the Beast to Appease Fans, which meant a U-Turn to a degree.  Looking at the Book it could be it followed a similar path to what a Source i had in early 2015, and that David would be RE-CREATING it..

It appears that at some point after some of the drafts that ADF would have read, that RS had decided it would be much more interesting if David Actually CREATED the Xenomorph....  The Themes are not so much about AI but about Creation, and what happens when you create something Intelligent that can evolve and think for itself and no longer sees its Creator as its Creator intended.

So RS feels the Ultimate Hubris of the Engineers is Creating Mankind and not destroying us, which leads to us developing the way we have, and then we also Sub-Create and our Hubris is again Sub-Creating.  And that our Sub-Creation DAVID will eventually lead to ours and the Engineers undoing.

HOWEVER... The Black Goo is the Blue-Print for the Deacon, Neomorphs and Xenomorphs.. and this BLUE-PRINT is not a creation of David.  I think RS was trying to explore the history of this Blue-print and Hubris from the use of it.... but Fans wanted Xenomorphs so maybe RS decided ok.... he can Shoe-horn the Xenomorph in as a Creation of this Black Goo and make it by David.... so that Fans upset with this could find some Comfort in the other Horrors the Engineers had been up to prior to the LV-223 Outbreak.

I do get what ur saying and I agree toning back the xeno a bit would probably be in its best interests but it is the alien franchise. he could have made AC with just the neomorph. tone back on the xeno but give us something fresh and show us that david is progressing with his experiments. plus shitting on the engineers wasn't a great move in opinion.

Indeed it all goes to show how they have written themselves into a corner with AC.

When David sends the messages in the Advent Prologue, if the company had not followed up what happened to Prometheus you can be sure they would do so NOW.. They would surely send one mission to Origae-6 and find out what David was on about, and then send another to where the Prometheus went missing.

In order to try and work out where we are going next we need to look at what Alien Covenant had shown us, and then Ridley Scotts comments....

*Does it appear David is responsible for the Xenomorph?  YES

*Does it appear these sequels will link to Alien? YES

So at some point Davids Creations in their Thousands have to end up on LV-426, and in a Engineer Ship, so we have to logically ask the following.

*How does Davids TWO Face Huggers lead to Thousands of Eggs?

*How do they end up on a Engineer Ship?

*Why is a Engineer Ship in the LV-223/426 System when its far from Origae-6

These Events that Eventually will Yield us the Answers to the Derelict, and right now it appears David is off to Origae-6, with Thousands of Colonist... However he may not plan to initially turn them all into Eggs. This is because RS is pondering what kind of a World would David Create?  But this could mean he will set up Shop on Origae-6 and create THOUSANDS of Eggs from the Colonist... but this would make it a very ALIEN movie. And RS said the Xenomorph wont feature as much as AI

The Advent Prologue has set up that the Company would be in the know... we dont know how long before they receive the information, but i will assume they do so before David arrives at Origae-6, will the company send in innocents to fall foul to Davids Creations?  This makes little sense unless AI is pulling the strings.

So the company will be arriving at Oriagae-6, but also the Engineers and i feel THIS is where the Derelict will surely come from, its interesting to suggest they go to LV-223 first, but i think they would again like i said with the WY company.. Logically the Engineers would send ONE ship to Origae-6 and another to LV-223

My basic overview from what we have seen recently of the franchise is this, Humans discover a facility that was planning to destroy Earth. One human and an AI go and find the planet where they think the Engineers come from and destroy it by using Engineer technology.  The AI we know as David has then hijacked a colony ship and headed off to Origae 6, or maybe not.

What I think stands out here is that there is a chance the Engineers could be left with the impression that humans are more advanced than they think and are quite capable of destroying them. I think there is a case that the Engineers could over estimate human capability and might not want to seek a direct confrontation with humans.

I personally think that AC is a giant plot device and something of a filler that can be used to place David somewhere in the universe to carry out his fiendish experiments and reappear at some point with his results.

When Ridley said the beast was cooked, and looking at the role of the xeno in AC, I’m left thinking that maybe he felt that for his purposes of telling the story he wants to tell, inclusion of the xeno would not really add anything to the story apart from satisfy those that wanted to see it.

I don’t really see the next movie putting all of its spotlight onto David’s adventures on Origae 6, but I do think it will appear to some extent. My guess is that WY will send out some exploratory exploration/investigation unit to establish what happened on LV223. Something like this could imo come off as a mash up of Event Horizon and Predator. A rescue mission done as a futuristic black op for WY. Something like that could open the door to create action scenes, whilst being able to explore more about the Engineers and ending up with David’s experiments appearing on the horizon just in time to present an opportunity for the next movie down the line.

I don’t really think that the franchise has been written into a corner. I think there is still plenty of scope to recover things and keep most people happy. I just don’t expect to see many xeno’s, but more of something different.

by less hospitable u mean after david arrives or its naturally inhospitable?

don't see how going to lv223 would lead them to figure out david is headed to origae 6. only walter would be able to mention origae 6 or maybe the engineers have tech sats in orbit that captures the covenant leaving the planet.

I now pronounce you husband and wife, you may kiss the bride!