New Replies (Page 529)

Blooper rhymes with pooper. I just wanted to point out the obvious. ;)

The alien movies have been around for many years so it would be strange if there wouldn't have been some mistakes made while they were filming them. I like to watch bloopers no matter if it is from movies or TV-shows, it is just fun to see what might happen. Bloopers make me see that not everyone take everything too damn serious every time. We got to have a laugh now and then.

It wouldn't surprise me if they laughed a lot when they made Star Wars as well. Who can keep a straight face every time thinking of a huge monkey walking around?

I am a bit worried that the next movie will be complete shit and totally focused on AI.

"It maybe my age but I need a film where I care about the characters and they offer a coherent emotional journey."

Egg-sack-tly this (Xeno, queen, egg-sack, got it?).
I mean why do Star Wars work? Because we care about the main characters and what they go through. Just think about Luke's development from episode 4-6. When I think about the movies that I like I find that this is common for all of them. GI Jane is a movie that I like (I might get shit for this) but it is the same thing: I cared about the main character and what she went through. Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon is another movie that works for the same reason, and also Batman (1989) and Batman Returns (1992). Even the Penguin in Batman Returns had an interesting back-story in the movie, that is what made him interesting. 28 Days later is a movie that works for me for the same reason (I like zombie movies). Kill Bill 1&2 are movies about the Bride's (Uma Thuman) development and her journey for revenge were we meet some interesting characters aside from the main character. Even Bill in Kill Bill was interesting although not very likable, but he was interesting. Also the Bride's trainer was an interesting character and the way they had built him up. The Shining is good for the same reason, how the main character develops a journey into madness, also the side characters are well-written.

Anyways my point is that all these movies work because we care about the main characters, at least I do. If they would have had bad characters they would have been garbage. Alien Covenant failed big time with this and therefore the movie doesn't become that interesting to me. Keep in mind that these movies are about human characters and therefore they get interesting.

Alien 3 and one are still the best movies in the franchise IMO. The simple reason is that the characters are interesting and that they make me wonder how I would react in a situation like that. This is what good movies do IMO, they make us think about them because they have good content and interesting characters. Unfortunately AC failed with this. For some reason it makes me wonder how it would have been if Fox wouldn't have messed with the production of the movie. I am glad that they kept the AI in the background although Bishop is a sympathetic character.

"Its a interesting Curve-ball, but again i think the David = Xeno Creator and Space Jockey = Giant Humanoids are things that i feel half the fan base are not interested in."

To me it just seems boring, maybe they could get the Engineers right but they messed up David so I am not really interested in that character the way he is portrayed now. David was better in Prometheus because he wasn't totally evil. Unfortunately they didn't even get the main-character (David) right although he wasn't a total disappointment.

joylitt

I am delighted you enjoyed it to. I knew nothing about the film before I sat down and I was completely suspended through out. However my intellectual rather than instinctive reaction made several mental notes.

1) A follow through quest story.

2) Only two people engaged at anyone time in a real narrative sense, but for the episode in front of the dam.

3) A revelation through a connected replication similar to a dream sequence.

4) A fallen broken world.

5) Sacrifice and Salvation.     

A subtext which did not challenge the creation myth but more what is being, what is soul and the revelation of connected minds through Engineering rather than materialism.

Then I got to thinking about the speculations I laid out for Prometheus 2 where the straight line was Elizabeths question within the context of a search for our origins and I suddenly realised that they are the same movie, even the movements within each act, except one is looking for the beginning and the other is trying to explain the end.

I am sure you can imagine seeing the other non Xeno broader story where A. I. is challenged and enigmatic following the same beats and narrative focus I would have gone for, made my quietly pleased and very contented. One doesn't have to imagine real continuity a distracting group who die and a troped cooked beast absent its there for all to see. Two people could have arrived at a fallen world with hidden surprises some interventions and finished with a revelation, sacrifice and redemption... and just enough uncertainty.   

“. . . it has outright flopped in Japan with a current, estimated audience attendance of 570,000.” (G.H. (Gman) )

If you make a movie that has the word alien in it you expect a certain format. It has usually been about the humans but now it became a AI show. This is disappointing and I think that Scott somehow deserves it. Hopefully Scott and those at Fox learn a lesson from this. Less artificial intelligence and more about well written and interesting human characters, thank you very much.

As far as how many that have watched it yes it is a disappointment. I looked up some statistics about Japan and there seems to be about 125 millions that live there so an attendance of 570 000 isn't that great.

“I think RS will be backed up, it could appear that FOX may now give RS free reign to Tell the kind of Story he wants to do, but the problem is the U-Turn to have David Create the Xenomorph could be a touchy subject.”

In other words we will get a shitty movie totally dedicated to AI and David being the creator of the Xeno. Sorry but I have no trust in Scott handling this. They should get a new director that doesn't F up the story. Honestly I got to be blunt about this but are Fox really that stupid?

I am sorry but from I have read this far it seems that it will make AR look like a master piece. Alien Resurrection is in part better than AC because at least it tries to do something with the human characters, I am not sure if they tried in AC. Really disappointed about this.

“I think if RS is allowed more freedom this time and the Next Movie fails to Deliver, then i do think for any future Movies Ridley Scotts Reign will be at a END.”

I honestly believe that he deserves it (the next movie to fail if we get another movie centered around AI) because he made this the AI show so if this is what he got then I am glad to see it crash and burn. Unless he gives us a better movie then I don't see any reason to have him involved. Give it to (I don't know) Cameron or maybe better Fincher. Alien 3 is really great and maybe he is better known now so Fox won't mess with him this time. Give Fincher a chance because it probably won't be worse than Covenant or the next Scott movie if that is what he plans to do.

“Yes chli. Do not discount Ridley Scott in pulling together a masterpiece with Prometheus and Alien: Covenant laying the groundwork in concepts.” (Ingeniero)

If these are the foundation then we're f---ed because they are not very good movies. They both lack a big enough amount of good human characters. Sorry but I don't trust Scott at all to make a good end to this. My approach to the next movie is that it will probably be crap so I will maybe (a big emphasis on maybe) watch it and if I do I will be surprised at the good bits keeping in mind that it is a movie that will probably suck. Yes it doesn't have to be bad but I don't keep my hopes up since the AI will be the main focus, or so it seems.

Corpora- F no! F no! F you!

(Perez doesn't realize the CPL is yelling at the Alien behind him and not Perez)

Interesting, Tiwaz. So, it seems that Bishop was made to be a proper synthetic, but turned out better. I suppose his actions that day followed rule #2 of the three laws of robotics. So, yes a good synthetic person indeed! Of course all that got him was nearly being scrapped!

According to A:BH Bishop was different since his activation, a flaw in the production line and got spared from scrapping.

Before he joined the Sulaco crew he was part of another Marine/Security team (don't remember exactly) and ignored/bend an direct order to abandom hostages. Instead he went and saved them. Right after he joined Apone's team. 

*Ripley escapes from her cell*

*Elsewhere, Pereze is trying to maintain order.*

Perez - Muster a squad to search for survivors!

Well, I think Ash is a drone sent in by the company, so yeah his lack of servitude to humans is on purpose. That is at a least what I gather from Alien. 

Interesting question with Bishop! I mean, from the movie, I believe that Bishop was meant to be a, "proper," synthetic. Aliens" Colonial Marines (as far as I remember) made it clear that some company people were responsible for the egg on board and how all that went done. So, I think Bishop was honestly built and programmed to be a nice, good synthetic. 

daliens,
Comparing other countries' straight numbers with each other is a bit erroneous since every country has different numbers, a different size film industry, different ticket prices, different populations, etc. For example, making $80 million in Japan would be like making $300 million in the U.S. Both are incredible.

To say Germany is worse than Japan is to discount what that number actually means for Germany. For all we know $6M could be pretty good for that country. I don't follow European box office numbers very closely so I really couldn't say either way. The point is making straight up comparisons between countries' numbers doesn't work. One country's $2M could potentially be a great deal better than another country's $10M.

For example, it did a lot better in Thailand than it did in Japan. Thailand loved the movie. It was number 1 at the box office for two weeks in a row. Just because Thailand is a smaller market than Japan, and didn't accrue as much money, does not mean it flopped there.

I noticed this a couple of times now. In BR, as far as I'm aware, Replicants are in vitro bred, genetically modified humans. Who try to break free of their slavery and are therefor hunted.

IMO, although given a conditioning and fake memories, they hardly qualify as AIs. 

daliens

Well, on the amazon.de it has 2.9 (with over 600 votes) and according to them it stars Foxbender and Rapace (wtf? she is not even in the movie). On the amazon.co.uk it has 3.2 (with over 1000 votes more than the us site) and also stars Rapace. I guess the US and China loved the movie the most... 

Even Japan is not bad compared to other countries. Look at Germany.

View: BY COUNTRY | BY WEEKEND

red0guy yes, however these possibilities cannot have a big influence on the box office. I have to accept it that Japanese are not so much into the Alien universe. Perhaps a Japanese made version would sell better, all the more an animated one.

In Prometheus Shaw has a dialogue with her father, witnessing a funeral and her father mentions the afterlife, heaven, paradise, "some place beautiful".

And there is Peter Weyland's question sherris quoted in a post.

Other than that, when we die a little chestburster might pop up, that's about all I saw about afterlife in these films.

Weyland said "Where do we come from, what is our purpose, what happens to us when we die?"

Perhaps nothing happens when we die in Alienverse and that is papered over. or i maybe mis quote 

daliens

But there is a possibility that they buy a copy and don't like it and stay away from the cinema. I know it is unlikely, but still it is a possibility.

The heads carved on the mountains we see in Covenant seem to indicate that indeed planet 4, not Earth, was the one seeded in the opening scene from Prometheus. 

It means planet 4 is not their initial home world but, at best, their current home world. Could it be that LV223 was their original world they abandoned after some mishaps with the black goo?

red0guy@gmail.com I believe the ones buying the hard / digital copy before the movie official release would go to see the movie in theaters as well. It's a fan thing. 

Looking at the figures posted by G. H. (Gman) Alien Covenant is much less than a flop in Japan but strangely this makes me love this film even more.

When they say 'their' home world, they aren't specifying whether it's all of the Engineers or just the ones we've seen. Also 'home world' does not mean that it's the only world.

Planet 4, or Paradise, was NOT the Engineers home world. The closest term viable to what Planet 4 was to/for the Engineers is a 'colony'.

red0guy@gmail.com,
Nostalgia doesn't seem to play too big of a part in Japan's audience. Everyone assumed Pacific Rim would do well in Japan merely because it's a giant monster movie, but it tanked with 1.03 million in attendance--Admittedly due to lack of advertising. Everyone also thought Power Rangers would fare well since it's based on Zyuranger, but it flopped really hard as well with an estimated 230,000 in attendance. Ghost in a Shell also did badly with only 720,000, even though the Japanese apparently didn't mind it was heavily whitewashed. And even the 2014 Godzilla only did moderate business. It had an attendance of around 2.23 million--Similar to movies from the prior Toho era, often considered a weaker box office decade for the Godzilla series. Their own Shin Godzilla, on the other hand, knocked it out with 5.7 million. Generally, they just prefer domestic films.

I wouldn't bet on Blade Runner making any big waves in Japan, but the fun thing about the Japanese box office is that it's one of the more unpredictable territories. There's always a chance, as they say. But if it's a live action Hollywood film, the odds aren't very good. Animated movies usually do better.

G. H. (Gman)

I would be rather curious how do you think Blade Runner 2049 will fare judging by the fact that the first one inspired so many mangas and animes.

IRaptus

Thank-you for the mention!! :)

Another thing I noticed long ago and is shown at 1:24 -They are wearing simple face masks but there is no oxygen tubing hooked to them. In my line of work it drives me nuts!

Cerulean Blue I am fairly confident most viewers were distracted by Ripley to notice the axes ;)

Thank-you for posting this Chris!! I'll be making full use of it and putting my works up on the sites you mentioned!

Still, THIS site will always get the new works FIRST. :D

red0guy@gmail.com is correct on all fronts. DVDs are locked out and North American Blu-rays do not include Japanese subtitles, so that's not very helpful to consumers. The crackdown on piracy is much, much harder in Japan than it is in other countries, so it can't be blamed on that either.

The fact is audiences just didn't take to it. Longevity is more important than opening weekends in Japan, and word-of-mouth just wasn't very good. Keep in mind I've yet to see the movie, so I have no horse in this race and am not bias either way. I'm simply reporting translations of how analysts and audiences in Japan view the movie and the fact is it's a flop.

The comparison to Prometheus's 1.24 million attendance also needs to be put in context. Prometheus's attendance number is better than Covenant's and "okay" for Hollywood movies in Japan, but overall "poor" for movies released in the country. It did not reach a blockbuster status. To do considerably well is to hit 3.0 million in attendance. Maybe 2.5 million, but that's being generous. The movies that are usually the top selling of the year have an attendance of 4-5 million. And although only a few movies hit 7+ million in attendance every year, it needs to be understood that such numbers are still anomalous. In short:

Japanese attendance number status:

5 million+ - Top 100 Best Selling Movies in Japanese Box Office History
4 million - The Most Successful Movies of the Year
3 million - Blockbuster Status
2 million - Okay
1 million - Poor
Under-1 million - Flop

SenseOfDoubt

Thank-you for saying!! :)

Glad you consider it a 'holiday book', people can be very picky about such, so that classification means a lot to me!

As does you're mentioning that I beat out an established and quite well-known novelist in your choice of selection!!!
You can imagine what that means to me in hearing that!!

Also, of course, I'm very glad you're enjoying it!! Thank-you again for taking the time to let me know! :D

Michelle Johnston  I agree. I am glad I went in without knowing much. The revelations start early in the film and they are neatly weaved into the narrative. There is considerable imagination involved, both in how the ideas and themes are explored, and in the world building. I found very strong christian parallels the second time I watched it. There are just a few plot devices that seem a little bit too convenient, but as a whole this is a very strong follow up to an unmatched, one of a kind classic.

“Who knows, maybe everyone has the homeworld thing backwards.”

The more I think on this, the more intriguing I find it. What if Planet 4 is the origin of mankind? One of the big questions asked in AC is where did the wheat come from. What if it came from Planet 4 and was part of its naturally occurring plant life. We see lots of architectural references to what is seen on Earth, but what if those influences did not come from earthly visitations, but were in fact influences originating from Engineer civilisation. By flipping things on their head, one question that stood out was could the idea of an afterlife originated from the Engineers. If the Engineers were considered gods by ancient humans, then would’nt it makes sense that individuals seeded from engineers could be chosen as a ruling class, such as roman emperors, or kings. In some traditions when a king dies they were expected ascend to the heavens and go to the gods, and so go on to an afterlife.

Tonight I saw a wonderful extra ordinary film heavily involving Ridley Scott. It begins with the opening of an eye and breath taking visuals.

A follow up movie which cleverly builds and gives new meaning to its predecessor. Heavily focused on the notion of sub creation and what kind of life that represents in particular artificial life and within that construct living by proxy through multiple characters. It was a quest story for a truth which held to the values of its original but steered its own course.    

It focused on one lead accompanied and prodded by a co lead through out to a climax which gave the lead meaning and salvation.

I am talking about Bladerunner 2049 which took more than one idea from Prometheus 11 and delivered in spades and knocked Covenant into the next galaxy. It knew what it was, it was riveting and unexpected and you were rooting with the main lead until the last page though it was no cute or troped ending. Not a millennial in site in the cinema and everyone groaned at the god awful trailers for yet more marvel films.

Congratulations to all involved eschewing set piece action endings which I was terrified would spoil the film but never came, it developed slowly and thoughtfully and enigmatically through its 163 minutes.

If ever a movie can show us how things can be done this one is it and to think that Ridley is going to stray more into the same themes now looks riskier than ever.     

Yup. I've long said this.

Advanced civilizations wouldn't live on the surface....too dangerous(radiation/asteroids/weather/spys/etc.....).

Earthling's are broadcasting their strengths/weaknesses across the universe....any aliens can easily spot a weak backwards society as they stand naked before the galaxy...just ripe for the picking.

Who knows, maybe everyone has the homeworld thing backwards.  Maybe Planet 4 is where the original beings stayed, and all of the other Engineer types we've seen or thought up were evolved from Planet 4 and left to be more technologically advanced and what not.

daliens I agree with your rationale. David shouldn't be in cahoots with Weyland-Yutani, as that would undermine David's agenda of being hostile to humanity. Plus, David doesn't imply positive thoughts with respect to Peter Weyland, so that too goes against David being linked to Weyland-Yutani

'Was it confirmed that Planet 4 was the engineers homeworld?'

Yes, it was. It was confirmed by the official Alien Universe website:

'David’s Lab: Engineers

Humanity’s predecessors, the Engineers, understood the dangers of a weapon mankind was never meant to possess. But David is not a man. With a stolen ship and a broken mind, he takes the legacy of the Engineers, and their home world, and uses their knowledge to put his dark plans into motion.'

https://www.alienuniverse.com/post/engineers

Kenny Powers!!

https://youtu.be/bKsij5MogIA

@dk - I can honestly say I never noticed those axes in the escape pod beside Ripley, while she was in her undies!!  I have seen that scene 50+ times, too!!  HAHA!!

I don't recall any references to an afterlife in this franchise.  If anything, it would be that there is no afterlife.  I've only seen hints of extending life and creating life, but not even immortality, as even the Engineers are mortal.

Well, I found myself gripping my mouse a little tightly reading that story, good job! That would've been awesome if they had something like that in the crossing video.