New Replies (Page 569)
joylitt can you detail on what do you mean by this?
The bad dialogue is all over the place, ranging from flat to pretentious to cringe worthy.
I think Covenant had by far the best dialogue of all the Alien movies.
Prometheus was a far lesser movie as dialogue, characters, but it had the Engineers and great visuals, had a happy ending, it was in many way an easier film to digest for the larger audience.
Covenant was very dark, almost unbearable sometimes and the ending left no door open for hope, David in control of so many helpless good souls, Daniels going into cryosleep with the thought that David is going to do to her what he did to Shaw... Can you feel that desperation?
In my opinion Covenant is a better movie than Prometheus.
The World of KJ has finally translated the weekend actuals from Kogyotsushin. While the actuals show it made more money, I was sadly way, way off in terms of attendance.
Alien: Covenant opened to #2 with $3.1M. It fell to Dunkirk, which is in its second weekend. Alien: Covenant had an attendance of 138,297 across 694 screens. That places it under Wonder Woman, Ghost in a Shell and Guardians of the Galaxy 2, but above Logan's opening.
Alien: Covenant is expected to finish its Japanese run with about $10M. That would estimate and attendance around 440,000. (Give or take, depending on the discount days.) To put that in perspective, anything lower than an attendance of 2-2.5 million is usually considered a flop.
"editing is off there too."
But how? Saying it's "off" doesn't tell me anything.
"Regarding the reviews, probably you just read the excerpts posted by Rotten Tomatoes"
That's exactly one of the issues though. If most people just read the essential fast-food version of a review, then film criticism takes a hit. It's no longer about in-depth analysis. It's about getting a strong zinger in with a score next to it.
You're right some critics do a very good job of going in depth with a film. But they are few and far between, because that's no longer the objective for many. Most publications have forced a low word count on film critics and mandated dry, sterile reviews that mimic others. (Some are even bought off by studios. It's one of the reasons I stopped writing for certain film magazines and websites.) Even though you may not "know" why a film is the way it is, that shouldn't stop more thought provoking exploration in to it. Especially if it's a film or franchise you're passionate about.
IRaptus said, "lets hope this give us some answers in a week's time!!! :-)"
Oh yea! I got mine on pre-order! Should we have another website countdown like we did with the movie Alien: Covenant? THAT IS how excited I am to get some more.
lets hope this give us some answers in a week's time!!! :-)
G. H. (Gman) Well I was not making a review but the bad editing negative effect on the movie is obvious: that third act is totally anti climatic. And the problems start pretty early in the film, most precisely with the sleep pod accident; editing is off there too. The bad dialogue is all over the place, ranging from flat to pretentious to cringe worthy. Regarding the reviews, probably you just read the excerpts posted by Rotten Tomatoes, but you can choose to hit the "full review" link. Some critics do a very good job actually, and they conduct in depth analyses of the film. I don't think you know why a film is the way it is. It Took Ridley Scott 5 years to admit that maybe he made a mistake with Prometheus. Maybe in another 5 years he will admit that making David the center of the story was a mistake or that the damn flute scene was a mistake. Anything is possible.
For me to accept this, I do wonder, then, what meaning does the transmission David sent to WY saying, "I have your ship," and so on in the Advent video. I interpreted that whole transmission as David showing WY what he has been working on and that he now has the Covenant ship. I didn't interpret that as anything less David notifying WY for the first time.
I do think David did some hacking and altered the course of the Covenant to pass near enough to Planet 4 so they would pick up the Shaw transmission. If that's not the case, than I do think it only makes sense that the Covenant was led to pass by Planet 4 on purpose.
I don't understand how anybody sees that WY sent the ship to David?
I guess I should ask some questions....
Where is that transmission scene or heard in the film or is it in one of those internet videos released by Fox? I'd like to experience that transmission again and give it more thought.
On another note, I can't find the Advent internet video...I guess it's in that video?
joylitt,
Okay, but whether or not RT was forgiving is not the point I'm making. The point I'm making is that RT is too busy quantifying reviews that say nothing different (good or bad) from one another and have issues justifying themselves beyond a score sheet.
Your post alone is guilty of the same stuff. Why is the editing bad? Why does it affect the film? What about the dialogue makes it bad? Is it possible it was intended to be written a specific way? And if so why? Does the weak CG ruin the film, etc. Or better yet, instead of listing the pros and cons (which way too many reviews do) what about the central themes either ruined or made the movie? What bigger concepts does the movie walk away with?
Anyone can list good or bad attributes about a film--The audience doesn't need to be told what good or bad CG or acting is. Most can tell--So diving in to those topics usually makes for mundane reads. I don't blame many reviewers sidestepping those issues to talk about something else. What audiences usually don't understand is why a film is the way it is--That makes for a more interesting read.
Ripley- But only God can make a tree.
I was never picky about directors as long as the movie was good. If I disliked a movie, I might look at who directed it but that is about it.
It didn't suck. I thought it was pretty good. But it, like most theatrical cuts, would have been better without time limits. In the future, maybe they can show everything while cutting down on the end credits- just scrunch them down in the corner while the movie plays. any TV shows do this these days. Who really cares who the fourth key grip was anyway?
G. H. (Gman) Rotten Tomatoes was too forgiving with Alien Covenant. Critics for most part scrapped all type of criticism about the bad editing, bad dialogue, half baked cgi, etc.
broomanicus You have a point. Apologists come with the fairy tale that there was a planned arc for this, but that is not true. Prometheus ended with a promise and that promise was broken. It was a coward move to eliminate a character just because maybe it was not as strong as Sigourney Weaver. It was just a marketing bet that turned sour.
Very true, David being an unnatural being seems to possess unnatural emotional capacities. He can love and adore and despise and hate all at the same time. David is basically rapant emotions without a grounded attachment to reality or other beings of his caliber. For lack of a better word, he's purely insane.
In some sense I share daliens' frustration, but for different reasons.
In terms of criticism/reviews the existence of Rotten Tomatoes depresses me as it shows just how far American film criticism has sunk. Everyone assumes critics are here to tell us if a movie is good or bad, but the real reason they came around was to make audiences think. Just because they framed that objective with an opinion doesn't mean they didn't have a duty to open audience eyes to greater details. (Why was it made like it was? What does it mean? What's the context? If the reviewer thinks it's bad, why and what can be learned from it? If the reviewer thinks it's good, why and what can be learned from?)
I don't mind bad reviews of movies I like as long as the review is framed in a fresh way that makes me think about things I hadn't thought of before. But it's understandable most turn their nose up at critics telling them what's good/bad, because the majority of modern critics think that's the extent of their job as well--The quantifying on Rotten Tomatoes has made that an expectation. I love the reviews that don't give a final score, forcing Rotten Tomatoes to make up a score for them--Something they've received flack for. But to be fair, final scores don't really mean anything. To paraphrase Roger Ebert, "they shouldn't be looking at our scores, they should be reading our words." And their right. It's why I often don't rate or rank movies myself.
But part of it is also because some professional critics think that they're in direct competition with social media. 140 character reviews from your best friend can sometimes be seen as more trustworthy than an overview from a guy you don't know. American film criticism is in need of a great change, but with the death of people like Roger Ebert we're left with no one to lead the charge to change how we look at film. Thus, because professional critics are becoming more and more thoughtless we get more and more thoughtless user/fan reviews.
By all means, write a bad review of Alien: Covenant or Shin Godzilla, but give me more to chew on than a bash-fest. The same can be said for good reviews--I'm glad if you liked it, but why? And to what end?
Food for thought: Maybe sometimes movies aren't good or bad. Maybe they just need a little more attention. Not always, but more often than we think.
Visit the embedded mural link as well. Very interesting:
Im a fan of alien 1 and 2. I thought Prometheus was good and set up a follow up well. Covenant however did not deliver. I liked the actors and effects as expected. The story was not what was promised by Prometheus. When you break a contact with your audience you lose your reputation.
It such a shame Covenant reminds me of Alien 3 the way Cpl. Dwayne Hicks was already dead. Before the film started Yes alien series survived that.
For me Covenant like Alien 3, it an act of betrayal with your audience. It just saddens me beyond words.
That's intriguing and insightful :D I knew he loved Shaw but he's a soul less robot. His development for love was never gonna be healthy.
Lawrence of Arabia - :D - Look at the face of the facehugger. A facehugger can be cute, too. :)
I love the little bits insights we get into the Engineer culture. The sacrifice could be both the way they create life on planetoids and their ceremony to conceive a Deacon as Steven Messing describes it.
IRaptus - I hope your last line describes the future of the Alien Universe making every fan happy. :)
fascinating! The pieces are slowing revealing themselves keeping us on our toes!!
Awakening is looking like it will be an epic showdown
ScorpioStar - You will like this movie: Headhunters (2011) Original title: Hodejegerne.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1614989/
The actor who plays the main character in it, Aksel Hennie, appears in Scott's The Martian as well.
ScorpioStar - I wasn't so excited :D, but it should be admitted that in Prometheus... she is pretty.
Have you seen the whole Lisbeth trilogy? My favourite is the second movie, The Girl Who Played with Fire, awesome film.
The lessons are learnt by them, we hope. :)
@Ati,
And when I heard she'd be working with Sir Ridley in "PROMETHEUS", I was like, "Yesssssssssss!" :)
ScorpioStar - Yes, in the first adaptation of the novel Noomi Rapace is the girl. :) Swedish story in Sweden with Swedish actors. :)
But I like the Fincher movie much better.
@IRaptus,
Mad Max 4EVER :)
@Ati,
Amazing that you mentioned Fincher's The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo. I saw it some time after I saw the original piece by Niels Arden Oplev - and Lisbeth Salander was... Noomi Rapace!
Amazing insights, thanks, guys! :)
Well, to start off I agree hardcore with iRaptus in that Covenant will be looked at in a better light when Ridley finishes what he started.
What do I think an Alien movie should be? It should be a... Movie! Not exactly sure how to put this other than: Franchises, sagas, series, etc., are all doomed to fan expectations, staleness, and a profit-making mentality. We always want more from this franchise because we love it! We all probably have a different (some more similar to others than not, of course) vision/desire for any Alien movie. Ridley Scott certainly had (and has) a different vision for the franchise.
While I don't know if the Beast will ever truly be cooked (even if it does happen, it just needs time to air out such as any film saga), I think that Prometheus may have been exactly where the franchise should have gone. At least the idea was right. Something truly DIFFERENT tham what has come before (in that saga.) Now, it was very reminiscent of Alien in many aspects, but it doesn't feel very Alien and that's actually good, I think.
There may be nothing I enjoy more than the atmosphere and design of Alien. Literally. STILL, if the franchise is always doomed to chasing that feeling, then it will never provide us with a truly new movie. A3, Ressurection, and Covenant have suffered from chasing that Alien feel. Ressurection less so, but still. I have at least a slight love for all of the films, but if we want something that is going to be truly great, it has to be different. Between Alien and Star Wars, both are struggling to find the balance between old and new, bold and safe, and both have recently fallen towards safe.
I think that the Alien saga needs to break it's mold. Have a TV show (Netflix being the ideal platform) about Wey-Yu, have a movie that is full on horror (like the ghost and demon movies that scare the daylights out of us. Pure terror), take another shot at hardcore scifi (Prometheus went that route), make an action/adventure film, go for a phsycological thriller, have a god damn comedy in there. The only thing to do here would be to make sure a top-notch continuity/story developing team is in place to make sure the franchise doesn't just feel like a bunch of random shit.
I think franchises, especially my favorite one in Alien, need to keep taking chances. To be fair though, I don't/will try not to crap on anyone who doesn't want something like that. Whether you like the idea of a movie that feels JUST like Alien (or very similar), want no more movies, want Alien 5, want more Prometheus, or WHATEVER line of thought there could be, there is room for us all to exist. The unfortunate thing is that no matter what Alien movie comes out in our lifetimes, it will piss off a large number of us.
I just want a movie that I enjoy. I have gotten that with all of them so far though..
Ingeniero - I'm glad you find the thread info exciting. :)
- 'And the string of image analysis and collections from Ati.'
I'm happy you find them useful.
Ati if they could do an Alien film similar to Sunshine, that would perfection for me lol :-)
bloody hell how could I forget The Man and The Legend....
Joss Whedon!
IRaptus - I love Fincher's The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo (2011) with Rooney Mara. Brilliant movie!
Ah, Sunshine is good, yes.
ScorpioStar - 'I ask, and I mean it: why was that?'
That is the question. :D
