Comments (Page 616)

Good point as far as indeed Humans could also be part of a Hidden and Malicious company Agenda.

A Robot would be more trustworthy depending on the Programing, if their Priority Programing has sinister intentions then their is no Bargaining with them.

They neither can be Evil/Good only do what their Programing does, and so its the Programmers who impact what Evil/Good these Androids have.

Unless they have signs of being Sentient and Rebellious which indeed we see we David and Call and so in this case i guess its a case of treating them with the same way you would a Human.

As maybe how they are influenced could change their Demeanour   towards you.  And so you could maybe try and play on any potential Moral Compass.

The same could be said when dealing with Humans with a Hidden Agenda, as some will only put their own needs and Agenda first...

The Interesting thing with Synthetics who have some kind of Sentient Personality, is not only the Moral Compass but then the Arrogance, Pride or even straight up knowledge that they are the more Superior Being.

And then its if they look onto us as just what Apes, Guinea Pigs or Ants.   And so i think the whole Theme and Questions about AI is quite large... and no wonder its something RS seems keen to explore.

So i guess the Answer is to always be cautious of a Synthetic, always be on your toes... But this will be hard when you are talking about a Superior Beings who do not need to sleep.

I thought it was established that Bishop could not have brought an egg on board and that the egg was solely a plot device/excuse to make A3. Watch Aliens again. Bishop was at a remote site away from the hive getting a ship ready. That said, Bishop was good people!

@dk

Lol, yes I know!

One of my favorite childhood memories is binge-watching Twighlight Zone marathons with my sister until we were both so scared out of our minds that neither of us could sleep.

We'd start laughing our heads off, making fun of all the scariest parts to try to make them seem less scary.

@Lawrence of Arabia

I feel confident that Bishop definitely did not bring the eggs on board the Sulaco. -_-; ...Where would he even hide them? It's not like they were easily concealed like the embryos David played his creepy mamma bird trick with.

Anyhow, would the sort of artificial person who would do that volunteer to crawl through that scary pipe? And refuse to carry a gun?

I mean...sure, he did risk stabbing Hudson through the hand...but who wouldn't?

I do see how Call could be a safe bet though, depending on the mission. Like, if it's a humanitarian mission of some sort, she'd be ideal.

The other way to see it could also be indeed these are celebrating the return of a Military Force from Battle.

But then we have to ask why does Planet 4 seem to lack much Technology and Defense Mechanisms, why does the Juggernaught ships lack Offensive/Defensive Capabilities 

I think we can look at Earth for some inspiration, if a World Power sends Ships off to a Conflict and some of these Ships have Tactical Nukes on them and then these Ships return to Port.. the welcoming citizens of that returning Military Ship would never suspect a returning ship would return to unleash its Nuclear Arsenal upon its own people.

And so we can maybe also consider that kind of Scenario too.

But i still by the idea that there are a Hierarchy of Engineers or other beings above them, who use the Engineers for a Purpose and they keep these Engineers Technologically at a certain Level like Mankind was thousands of years ago.

Only a Selected few are allowed to use the Technology and have the Knowledge and these are chosen and governed by the Hierarchy, but some of these beings abused this Technology. (LV-223)

I would assume the ships are not Militarily capable apart from dropping the Seeding Urns, because this RACE are Advanced and they Visit and maintain Worlds they have seeded to check on them and teach them stuff but never ever as far as the Advanced Technologies

And so in their Arrogance.... the Engineers would think that without interactions and teaching to Mankind, we would have been no more than Cave-Men Savages and so when we are abandoned thousands of years ago, without the Engineers Offering is Knowledge we could never ever had evolved Technologically past the point we was thousands of years ago.

So the Planet 4 Engineers see those Engineer Ships as just Sacrificial Seeding Ships which is a great honor to them, and they also see no Aggressive Intentions towards or against the WHOLE Engineer Culture and Rituals and so could never Fathom that these ships would be used by anything but the Chosen Engineers and the use would ever be for anything more than their whole Sacrificial Ritualistic Culture for the greater Good.

VivisectedEngineer Those Twilight Zone shows are stocked to the brim with the creepy!

To reiterate, I choose Walter- the cook, the intellect, the friend, and the master of hydroponics/botany.

dk

Yes! Good point dk !

Just like on the "Red Meat" thread you had to chose between Prometheus and Covenant, and on the "Off Meat" thread you had to choose between 3 and Resurrection,

here on the "Soy Meat" thread you have to pick an artificial person.

BigDave It should be remembered that a synth is a requirement for a WY mission. Ya gotta choose!

So indeed Pretty much what Kethol had put is also what could be close to the Truth.

Maybe the LV-223 Engineers are Genetically Altered Super-Engineers, a Evolutionary Path... maybe thus they are similar to why we created David?  

Or maybe the LV-223 Engineers Predate the Paradise ones?

There are so many ways we can look at the connections, and there is no real ONE way to figure out what this connection could be... the LV-223 Engineers could have Engineered themselves to a Advanced Level, against the Will of the Hierarchy of their Race and Corrupted their Pure State.

The LV-223 Engineers could have been the Original Race who had Evolved themselves so far, that they lost the Ability to Procreate (as Spaights Alien Engineers ponders) and so the Sacrificial Scene was a way to attempt to kick-start their Evolution in the hope this would bring back Females?

There is so many ways this could be explored.. as far as the whole connections... and it think this was the Hope some had for a Prometheus Sequel..

BigDave Nice eye! Yes, with company synthetics you may never truly know. Look at Ash!  Maybe Bishop did bring the ovomorph on the Sulaco (I don't think so lol)! Even though Call can be a bit of a renegade at least her 'heart' is in the right place :D

They way to explore this Topic can be quite detailed depending how we look at it, and also pondering if RS/FOX are still keeping to Themes Prometheus had set up and even considering ideas that Evolved from as far as Alien: Engineers.

So i am not 100% sure where to start with this as it depends what clues we try to use and what to ignore.

Ridley Scott had said the Engineers come back to this place from time to time, this place seems to have a very important significance to the Engineers.

RS had also called these the Original Engineers (or it was someone else on Production).

RS had mentioned the Hall of Heads where the Wise Men, the Apostles and Superior Beings and now this depends if this is directed towards the rest of those Engineers, does the Superior beings thus mean the Hall of Heads beings are Superior to those on Planet 4?

Or is it to show in General the whole Engineer Race are Superior beings compared to Mankind?

Another member of Production called the Hall of Heads, the Hierarchy and RS had said the Cathedral Place is where these beings store their History and Knowledge.

I really can go into a lot of detail if required on the connections, and reasons for this place.. but in a Nut-Shell.

It would appear that indeed this Place is where a Engineer Civilization lives in, and the Engineers whole Culture revolves around Sacrifice where such a Ritual is held in high Esteem for those beings.

I would therefor assume that the Engineer Ships arrive here every so often to collect Sacrifices to use their Genetic Material to Seed/Evolve Worlds... and for the Chosen this is a very great Honor.

And for their Sacrifice they will be Remembered, Celebrated and Immortalized with Statues dedicated to them in the Plaza and then Monuments Build in their image on the Worlds that their Body/Soul has seeded.

I would therefor assume the Juggernauts are Seeding ships, where they had evolved a means to Sacrifice Engineers with the Sacrificial Goo and the resulting Broken Down Material is Stored within Urns to better Seed Worlds.

And so the Urns do not contain Black Goo we saw in Prometheus, not as the intention for it.. but at some point a Faction of Engineers had come into contact with a Xeno-related Organism and Produced a Xeno-Like Off Spring and these Engineer Experimented on this until they had achieved the Deacon Mural, then they Sacrifices its Body to create the Strain of DNA with the Urns on LV-223 as these Engineers saw the Deacon DNA as more Perfect than Engineers DNA.

This will explain why those Engineers was not fearful of that Ship.

They did not think it would be Carrying Such Death like the Black Goo, but the Ship would return to take Sacrifices.

This is what the Franchise had draw me towards, even prior to Alien Covenant and my in work Prometheus 2 draft that i abandoned nearly 3 years ago... did touch upon this purpose.

I had a opening Scene showing a Juggernaught leaving Earth and within Cryo-Pods on that Ship was Primates, the whole idea being these are taken to LV-223 and experimented/evolved and then the results then seeded back to Earth.

Well this appears to be from Dantes Inferno as far as the Images, and it will be interesting to see the OT expand upon how they are using this interesting piece of work for the influence on their Topic.

Good point BigDave. ...But, when you think about it, in this scenario, we'd all be employed by the company and any of us could have secret orders.

You can't really trust Weyland-Yutani human employees either -they're a mixed bag, just like synths. You could wind up with a Ripley or you could wind up with a Burke.

Also, BigDave, where do you stand on non-Weyland-Yutani owned Autons? Would you want Call on your team, then?

I would have to say this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jR7RYKPJBdo

A World Dominated by Synthetics... until Generically Cloned Jones get on the loose, with more than 9 lives this Felines are IMMORTAL... But they have to Feed... like Vampires..

But they only Feed of Androids Blood...

@dk

Lol, creepy!

Haha, or worse yet, we keep the same Walter and the one I broke just gets a replacement body/gets repaired.

Eheheheh...awkward.

Like the Poster... but nearly had me worried for a moment lol

While Walter and Bishop seem like Safe Bets... the thing is they are Company Robots and while they may seem to be willing to Serve and not Harm a Human... we really cant rule out what they would be like should they have a Secret Order given to them from the Company.

I would therefor say No Androids can really be Trusted...

But on a serious note, unless its done with no thought or reason and so just a Easter Egg or would this not look Cool..

Then it has to bare some importance and significance, and i am sure there are a few heads carved into the Mountains.

It could have been the Sacrificial Engineer, but then it could be the Elders... i would say its a Celebration/Worship of some Ancient Humanoid being that is of great importance to the Engineers History.

If there are more than One of these Heads which i think there are, then they are in effect similar to how the USA has Mount Rushmore Sculptures.

And so in that context i would say the ones in Alien Covenant are to celebrate the first set of either Leaders/Hierarchy of the Engineers on that Planet or they are celebrated as being the Forerunners to those beings on that Planet.

VivisectedEngineer Do not cross a synth. Imagine replacement Walter doing this:   it's only 10 seconds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNTR46MSjA0

Well it seems this Engineer is....

I saw old Trent after he toured with David Bowie dk. It was something to see NIN in a club. Great recommendation.

Wow- lots of good stuff here. I would say just about any NIN songs could fit in with some part of the movie.

Great recommendations Dark Nebula, especially: 

Prometheus - God Is An Astronaut - Suicide By Star

Wonderful topic VivisectedEngineer.

If I could choose...it would be a music video about Dr. Shaw and David 8 to Erasure's Magic Moments. For sure.

VivisectedEngineer There is bound to be a lot of "borrowing" with Sci Fi movies. After all, it seems to be about the human condition and a sense of wonder. There was Metropolis, but if we really want to nit pick, it is arguable we owe it all to the first known sci fi movie, "Le Voyage dans la Lune". I actually watched it and ultimately liked it for its ideas (not the limited production of its time. You have to work with what is available).

@dk

._. Gosh. Dammit.

@dk

You're right, "inspiration" is certainly kinder terminology than "ripoff".

After all, Passengers didn't make me like Prometheus or Covenant any less, and I enjoyed the similarities.

It's nice we Sci-Fis pass ideas back and fourth and expand on them. That's really how art should be.

Absolutely great point sherris. I answered your question here.

Husband- "That's ok, I paid for the full life time no questions asked warranty".

Thank you so much for that VivisectedEngineer. Yes, many wish for that happy ending for Newt and the gang but in the Alien universe you can't get to upset about a character dying off because they usually kill most everyone. And shred the androids to varying degree.

David 8. My most beloved character is David 8.

When he dumbed down his drawing ability (see above) to act like he was growing a crush on Dr. Shaw, that was great. David 8 had the ability to draw the below drawing when he was "born". David 8 did not have to learn how to play the piano so why would he have to learn to draw?

I just love him because he is so devious. We have such great potential with that synthetic.

Covenant is a masterpiece, no self respecting Alien franchise fan would say otherwise.

@dk

Lol, well, not only am I in delicate condition but I'm also a Hindu Vaishnava, so indulging in intoxicants isn't really an option for me anyway...

Is violence against androids though...? I guess I'd have to consult a Vedic Pandit on the matter but surely a non-fatal decapitation would be a minor offense at best?

"I'm not sure what happened to the Walter, dearest! I was just chopping cabbage and its neck got a bit in the way. ...And its body got partly stuffed down the garbage disposal, somehow. <_< Cheap Weyland-Yutani technology... Anyhow, the cabbage poriyal's ready! ^-^"

I have Passengers based on a member's recommendation but haven't watched yet.

Speaking of rip offs, I wonder if calling it inspired or influenced might be a better word. For instance, I saw obvious nods from older sci fi movies in What Happened to Monday done in a good way. Tough call sometimes.

I think he did know but, as a competitor, saw it as a challenge to reign his child in and tame him into subservience. Ego lol

Serve in heaven or reign in hell? That is David through and through!

Peter should have known what he created at the intro of AC. When David out reasoned him, you could see possibly regret or "oh shit" in Peter's eyes and all he could retort with was a command to pour tea. 

@dk

That gif of David touching everything is hilarious.

Also, speaking of Alien ripoffs, did anyone see Passengers? I saw it for the first time last night, and so many concepts seemed straight from Prometheus, like the hypersleep pods and the medi-pod.

Plus, the colony ship full of sleeping colonists was quite like Covenant, but I guess Passengers came first, so it'd be a question of who ripped off whom.

VivisectedEngineer 

She was a bit hypocritical but when you're dealing with a human/Xeno hybrid who knows what's gonna happen lol 

She doesn't have the best track record so I get your point lol

VivisectedEngineer "if my husband winds up liking Walter's cooking better than mine, I'll develop a jealousy complex" Walter's got you covered. He grows plants that would make you not care!

IRaptus I really like Call too, but as you stated, she exercised poor judgment thinking she could effectively drink with boxing gloves. 

@IRaptus

LOL!

@Lawrence of Arabia

I do admire Call's compassion (though... she was a wee bit  hypocritical in her disdain for Ripley 8...) 

I think Call would be fun to have among my group of friends, but I wouldn't want her as part of my crew for any type of important space missions. Too independent and cunning, and likely to subvert the mission.

@Lawrence of Arabia

"I'd choose David. I'd be his best friend and maybe he wouldn't go madman lol That or we can rule this galaxy together :)"

Haha, I have a feeling that's exactly what David was thinking, right before awakening the genocidal Engineer who ripped his head off!

@dk

"On second thought- maybe Walter since he excels at cooking..."

You make a compelling argument but, I think if my husband winds up liking Walter's cooking better than mine, I'll develop a jealousy complex and the Walter will meet with an unfortunate accident somehow... <_<

@Cosmonaut-Copper

Just out of curiosity, would you describe yourself as the sort of person who's likely to marry a serial killer you've met through a prison-pen-pal program?

@cuponator3000

"Bishop was a great synthetic (assuming he did not put those eggs on the Sulaco...),"

O_O Is that an actual theory!? Ok, I can see it... secret Weyland-Yutani orders... But, I refuse to believe it! T_T

Plus, I don't actually see when he would have had the opportunity.

Great theories and explanations BigDave