New Replies (Page 631)
when the urns explode, the contents does appear to swarm yogi. it is though more inconsistencies on the topic of the black goo that are hard to come down on one side or the other. we have the sacrificial goo which seems to bubble n move, then the goo that spills out of the urns that nothing swarms out of, then the bombing scene where it 'appears' to swarm. we need something definitive from RS on screen to explain
@ Kethol, when you have evidence, your arguments are very strong. But when you try to work things out on your own....Jeez do you get it wrong.
Wow! Really well done. Pure horror.
More please!
@ Kethol
There you go again, inventing canon with no evidence. Where did anyone say that the black goo forms into creatures directly? Show me the source for your argument. The motes are not black goo! They are insect-like spores from mutated fungus. Macro view means zoomed out view. Zoomed out, those little midges look like a black blob, always changing it's shape. Please understand what you are reading. Also where do you get the idea that it's the black goo bursting out of the engineers? I see those as parasites which were quickly formed within them, as part of their rapid black goo mutations. You really can't admit to being wrong can you?
monster, thanks. I think walter should survive and the fact he reactivated after davids first attack shows he is capable of surviving.
iraptus, yea theyr gna be mighty pissed. the neomorph is an abomination I think but what about the deacon? resembles the mural which also depicts what I think are engineers giving birth to them, would it be viewed as an abomination u think?
Prometheus for Zombie Fifield and Shaw's baby and the Juggernaut crashing.....
Alien:Covenant is hard core...what a ride...Going to have to watch it another 20 times before I can put in a verdict.
but ur right, there was no sign of acid burns. though I think bishop covers this in aliens. I know aliens hasn't happened yet but surely as RS has seen it, it may be a small addition to answer this. after bishop examines the facehugger he tells ripley something about after the creatures death something neutrolizes the acid. though david doesn't have any original xenos in his lab, yet the facehugger should be acidic. I think once it had been dead for some time the acid would have dissipated and would not be harmfull maybe?
Very cool!
I think it works well.
Love that Walter is alive!
Yeah totally agree and I think we will see the Engineers on the offensive in Awakening.
They're copped David's genocide, the loss of at least 3 ships (2 juggernauts and a scorpion-tail mothership) and the abominations of a Deacon and Neomorphs due to human tampering.
They'll come with the thunder
hahaha he was a butcher of all species mate, 'if it bleeds, I will dissect it' hahaha
Originally, a big centipede thing was gonna burst out of him as well. Probably similar to the trilobite that came from Shaw via Holloway.
IRaptus and dk. Genitalia and pretzels...I'm dying laughing. And we wonder why these movies are not mainstream.
To sum that up...These arrogant, pale, tall muscular dudes flew down in pretzel peckers and covered us with oil and we mutated.
Yes BigDave. I'm so glad they didn't use the pyramids as ships. To me, it was a disappointment to hear that it was considered.
Thank you for the concept art Timmy the ultramorph.
iraptus, thanks. I had prologue/ opening scene in mind. this way we see the engineers motives for chasing david and being a part of awakening. I also tried to put some strength into the engineers yet keep the danger element in the neomorph. its not really a threat but if it stalks and ambushes it can take an engineer down. the general was definitely an attempt to make the engineers feared as well. I thought Prometheus and covenant showed them in a not so strong species light
I'm not sure but David 8's lab didn't look melted and he was a neomorph butcher in there.
Yes Yog Sothoth. Millburn's salad days were over once he stepped off the Prometheus.
But it just looked like a big snake. I guess that suit is snake proof, so Milburn thought "What the hell..let's go in for the stroke" with a side helping of hypnotism from the creatures odd movements. He has no idea that a snake could snap his arm in 2, get into his helmet and orally fuck him. Poor dude.
Right again ali81. The blurry figure looks a little like a Deacon with a really bad head wound.
Looking closer, each side of the "head" appears uniform (similar dips on the edge) and the circular/oval dark colorations on the David 8 drawing seem to match (vaguely). It is tough to make out with confidence.
ali81 great work! I could really see that being the prologue to Awakening. Upvoted!
"Elizabeth could not take the truth. She refused to believe she was destined to be the currency in a horrifying transaction taking place beyond the stars. On one end of the transaction, the Engineers, on the other end myself."
Well written joylitt. The point above is really good.
joylitt nice work mate! Very well written and thought provoking. Upvoted
Prometheus.
I love Alien: Covenant too and its starting to grow on me more each pass but Prometheus....well, you know.
I don't believe there is any acidic blood in the neomorph. I didn't get the impression it burned or sizzled on the floor when Oram shoots it and david certainly didn't get splashed with any Im sure. think RS has gone for a more natural and organic creature in the neomorph
Likewise ali81.
Did we see any melting of the floor when Captain Oram showed David 8 how impressed he was with the neomorph in the room where Rosenthal was killed?
I know we did see the floor melt when they tried to get the facehugger from off of Lope but I couldn't remember if melting was visible from killing the neomorph in the room where Oram shot it.
the very origins of the deaconesque form in the mural?
Yes, ali81.
Ati was able to capture some of the text shown in Alien: Covenant and "plant" was mentioned in it (see below).
"If I read well David's lines on the drawing:
'Concurrent xenomorph development...'
'host sustaining functions and plant...'
After the word host (n) the word plant is not a verb, but a noun meaning the flower...?? That's why I wrote about the flower... I don't know, it's possible that I'm wrong.
The full sentences can't be seen."
cheers guys. ingeneiro, the neomorph and hammerpede def look to have a lot of the same charcteristics such as texture, skin colour etc but I wonder, how come the hammerpede has acidic blood yet the neomorph doesn't?
looks like a vine/ tree that's grabbed the engineer?
P R O M E T H E U S
yea I thought on of the dudes went into the chamber.
I have more in mind but thought id better stop
Thank you- I will review.
I have something just off the cuff yet its LONG lol where do I post it?
It's really tough, but Prometheus I think.
I read the control mechanism in the xenomorph is a short lifespan of only days Yog Sothoth.
I theorized that the hammerpede mutations we saw in Prometheus were more like a neomorph than anything we had seen yet.
"Black goo + Worms = Giant worms + Host = Unknown"
As to the above statement...I haven't seen any attempt at reproduction from the neomorph but I have seen an attempt to shred a human as quickly as possible (Millburn and Rosenthal).
The below organism symphony is a little harder to explain.
Great topic ali81.
In that scene when Cole goes downstairs, there is a moment when he is looking for captain and you can see two eggs opened, while after scene with captain Oram only one left open.
Goodness...
I always saw these movies as Yin and Yang. One provides something the other doesn't but still be an amazing experience.
Only from sheer intensity and the whole body clenching experience I get from Covenant I would pick that one. It truly was an experience like no other movie in a long time (Since The Witch). I tend to praise movies that move me physically and Covenant did that in spades! I would rank that up there with many of the best movies that moved me like Black Swan, Take Shelter, Melancholia, and Antichrist.
Prometheus is no pushover either. It took a second watch to really love it (exactly like Blade Runner) and it has only gotten better since. The color and beauty is at 11 here instead of the dread and intensities like Covenant. Both are such wonderful films and I am happy to have the DVD for both!
Yes Yog Sothoth. I'm sure the misplaced confidence in the suits was because they had never encountered anything that would make its way through the suit so quickly. And the corporate description above makes me want to hold something exotic out in space.
Alien:Covenant
Thank you for offering an insight into your thinking of how you could link the relationship between Engineers, Mankind and A. I.
I think the kind of idea you have of lifting the XXX121 into a central role with in the mythos, and not by force, but by it playing a crucial and vital part in the evolutionary process would sit very well with the core fan base and particularly that part which is Xeno centric, and why wouldn't they be, thats what its about, it makes good sense.
Well written as others have said, but these ideas and what we actually have received since Prometheus has rather let the cat out of the bag for all kinds of approaches and once you begin thinking about them it makes me consider where the centre of gravity should be and reflects on the fragmented nature of the reaction to Prometheus.
For me it is Shaw's questions which should lead the narrative, seeking our creators and considering within a babushka like doll story the possibilities of creationism.
The audacity that we were Engineered is a perfect start and it also reflects on the modern and very much current and increasingly point in our real world of A I and our relationship with it.
It seems to me that Shaw's journeys should have considered both a materialist creation and a creative creation.
So Materialism
Materialism is a form of philosophical monism which holds that matter is the fundamental substance in nature, and that all things, including mental things and consciousness, are results of material interactions. Materialism is closely related to physicalism, the view that all that exists is ultimately physical.
Creative
Suggesting that evolution is motivated by an élan vital, a "vital impetus" that can also be understood as humanity's natural creative impulse. Put simply creation is the greatest work of artistic achievement and comes from the mind and spirit and planes of existence which cannot be explained in purely physical terms.
After all Peter Weyland began the journey seeking his makers and for the first layer to be a soulless Engineered race of beings that created us from a purely materialist point of view makes sense. That through the allegory of Paradise Lost that the Alien Pathogen evolved which an A I became aware of and its possibilities was extremely neat. That should have been movement one with the relationship with the cargo left on LV 426 made clear as part of the paradigm of unauthorised sub creation.
However the real shock to the narrative, which the story will never recover from now, is that the A I was healed by mankind and Davids resurrection should have generated a transformative outlook.This would have lead in the second instalment for David and Elizabeth to consider this society (The Engineers) which is predicated on materialism and found that the source of the power was based on a mechanical force. All of this would have explained that the Engineers were given free will to create, the only Covenant was to do so in the manner gifted to them, a machine. What the Engineers discovered in AD Zero was that mankind had evolved to a place where the Sun King (Christ) intervened and showed them a glimpse of the greater truth of creative creationism. Mankind exercised free will and outside of the materialist view and therefore attempted to redact them with their creation the Deacon. Incidentally the drama in this is David and Elizabeth being central to the creative tension of the two belief systems. Could Elizabeth really believe that David had under gone a transformational experience and accept as A. I. creative creationism.
The second movement would conclude with David having infected the source of their power and would then seek the creative creationism which they would discover amongst the secrets of Paradise.
In that third movement Elizabeth would receive her answers from the Teardrop Ship occupants, who would communicate in a unique and compelling way, not a guy emerging on the ramp in a suit, which would indicate that they recognise the flaw of the creative mind was to only reveal the how and not the why to the Engineers. They gave them the tools but not the wisdom and the revelation of the story is that in mankind's search for creation through visiting the Engineers that they mankind already had found the answers which the Engineers failed to recognise in their materialism, that the soul is eternal and in ways which we cannot comprehend.
The central symbol and difference between the Engineers and mankind is focused in the concept of sacrifice. The Engineers perverted the sacrificial act by creating non consensual unsympathetic sacrifice for their medium of sub creation whereas Christ died so that others could live and be enriched, just as the acolyte from the tear drop ship. Put simply the Engineers dropped the ball and Peter Weyland was off the mark.
In a sense the third Prometheus movie would move into the same territory as 2001 which Ridley paid homage to at the beginning of the Prometheus. Incredible visuals highly allegorical and quite separate and fresh and moving away from the XXX121 altogether.
I only offer this not to derail the thread but to show that Prometheus opened up a can of worms or is that hammerpedes which could equally have left the XXX121 as a specific variant of Paradise Lost and that the Jockey and its force field protected Eggs, which the Jockey hoped had been been set in a quarantined place, with a warning to avoid, echoing the transformational journey that David made 2000 years later in Movement 2.
PS In case this comes across as an attempt at a christian narrative I would emphasise that all the great prophets and belief systems could be responsible for the redaction attempt by the Engineers. The other great religion comes after 2,000 of course.
