New Replies (Page 632)

where do we post them? have to forgive the ignorance but at times im not computer literate. im not sure how to create a link, I have a rough idea though

didn't one of the marines go into the egg chamber?

Someone said in another poste here that Muther says the air is clear when the crew is suiting up to leave the ship, so maybe it was just changed from David to Muther checking the atmosphere.

I love how Shaw was used to become...

..Something, Can you enlighten me?

Something else from the script I forgot to mention that goes with a something discussed here about that Alan Dean Foster interview. Faris sends Walter outside to analyze the air first before the crew exits the lander in the script. So that was not just something Alan Dean Foster added to the novelization all on his own.

It's not in the deleted scenes, so it most have been cut in a later draft, or maybe never filmed?

so 'get back to the effing topic ali81'? lol

sorry was only responding to comments. on the topic, my 2 cents worth. I don't see the point of it being anywhere other than earth. yes ridley says he gets annoyed everyone automatically puts it on earth and true, it could be anywhere and just showing us the process. but then why not earth if, if the plot of Prometheus is humans, created on earth, are searching for our makers? to me the intention of the opening scene is to show the viewer 'this is what happened hundreds of thousands of years ago on earth, and we are the result'.

Here are additional shots of the Covenant screens in search of where the Paradise planet/system is and to the topic (where did the Engineer sacrifice himself).

Thank you for the great discussion on black goo forms ali81.

I created "Millburn's Folly" to explain characteristics seen in the form of black goo in Prometheus carrying on to the neomorph seen in Alien: Covenant.

Kethol created the topic "Various forms of the Black Pathogen" and goes to great length explaining this subject. 

ah, I did say on that thread that I am only on while at work and my company have blocked sites that come up under 'gaming' which for aome reason the AVPG site falls under, I don't know why. but I am unable to read it from that link. do u know of another link that I can read it from? im not sure how much of this though has been keep in the actual film thus canon. it may be another piece of concept which has not made it into the film. just because its in an early draft doesn't make it so.

on the idea of having these satellites in orbit is something id def like to have included and would have been good to have seen or at least have mentioned in the film. there is not concrete evidence in the film that suggests them though, from what I gathered from the film, it is just a storm. and we don't know the ecosystem or weather patterns of planet 4 before david arrives so it could be a case of the effects of the pathogen david deploys, which many have stated could start to change/ terraform a planet.

I believe it was kethol who staed in sherris' thread 'david and the burst a 10yr plan', that there were satellites in orbit around the poles that create the giant storms and are part of shield defence (not sure his source on this though I have asked him). regardless of the origins of the storm, the storm makes it almost impossible for david to be in contact with the company while he is on planet 4. also, the olive branch message, sent after the events of covenant, suggest this is the first time he has contacted the company, offering them a piece of his works so to say.

The John Logan script that I mentioned above. It was posted over on the AVP forum and here several days ago.

You are correct ali81.

In the olive branch message he does mention his (David 8) work and then show Daniels while explaining he now has his queen...meaning that the message was sent after the crew arrived.

Please chalk up inconsistencies in my logic above to brainstorming while commenting while hyperventilating in regards to Origae-6 mentioned in the video.

It could also be a stretch that David 8 would have the capability for the sub-space communication inside him. He may if the Chinese had anything to do with it, see here.

David 8's Message to Weyland-Yutani Corporation

This leads me to conclude that David 8 may have taken the Covenant ship down to the surface of Paradise and then sent the message in regards to his lab, colonists, and his queen. This may explain the image above with the Covenant ship on the surface of somewhere.

Thombach and BigDave...yes, looks like a goof at Fox (bummer).

Outside that...the "Experimental Trials" (included in updated video) is too hard to pass over.

2000 colonists, housed in the best technology humanity has to offer, sent strait to David 8 sounds like the ingredients for an "Experimental Trial"....at least under Weyland Corporate ethics.

Origae-6 may be mind chum (a fairy tale) told to the crew to get them on board for the Experimental Trial of black goo experimentation with corporate in-the-know in regards to the real story on what is going to happen to the Covenant crew.

The crew may have been lied to as to what their mission objective was.

dk, id say even those who have only seen the film would still be asking 'which one was branson?' lol im not sure but does the crew actually mention him by name in the film?

would actually be intriguing to see how people think the film would differ if he had not be a completely wasted character just to show Oram wasn't accustomed to giving the orders and had the position thrust upon him and survived

Prometheus, It expanded the Alien universe :)

I kind of want to say let the franchise rest for a bit after this prequel trilogy, but if I had to choose 1, it would be carry on, simply because even if the rest of the series has been mediocre to bad, the first 2 films are so good I don't want to see them get rid of them.

Now if we wanted to reboot everything besides those 2 I might be on board.

Keep Scott and Carry on

Covenant

whats ur source? I haven't got the blu ray so haven't seen any of the extras so if there is something there I genuinely am not aware but if there is material that states it is indeed a shield then makes things even more interesting about the planet

that's the reason I think the same, there is more than one form of it

Because those were two different forms of the pathogen. The type that infected the temple worms and Fifield was the mutation version.

We never see Milburn get infected by the black pathogen, so to speak. It appears the hammerpede just killed him. His dead tissue looks pretty messed up though.

In the script the Engineers had a planetary shield set up to prevent things entering or leaving their planet, run by two satellites orbiting the poles. Sort of a quarantine barrier. The Covenant crew think it is just an extremely strong ionosphere, but when they fly through it it kills the ships power temporarily and they find it messes up communication to and from the planet. It may also be what hid the planet from the Weyland Yutani when they were searching for a habitable planet to colonize.

It also drains the power to the Covenant, causing the orbit to decay. When activated, once you get to the planet, you can never leave, which is why David was trapped there and needed to lure a passing ship for help. Presumably it was activated when the Engineers were bombed by David.

They had to destroy a satellite to take out the shield and restore communication and power to the Covenant. If you watch the movie, there are still little bits of this plot line left in there, but all the shield and satellite stuff was removed to make the whole storm and communication blackout cause vague.

Carry on! Haha so far, this is very clear cut (again)! IRaptus pretty much hit the nail on the head!

Ripley had her story told nicely through three films (and the fourth sort of spinoff added to it without ruining it... If you look at it in an optimistic way) 

David has his trilogy (possible quadrilogy. David may even perish in a third film and the fourth would be similiar to Resurrection in it's continuation, but distance) and then after a few years and once there is a plan in place (continuity and decision making can't jump all over the place) Fox can set out to make a new trilogy or a connected universe type of deal. 

kethol, what shield?

Prometheus! I have grown to love what Covenant is, but I can't not watch Prometheus!

I really enjoyed reading this, very well written.

The quote "A prey that gives birth to its predator" really struck me.  I've never seen the host/xeno relationship referred to in this manner, but it almost has a morbid sense of beaty to it.  If the quote wasn't borrowed, I'd say you nailed it perfectly.

I know that wasn't what you were looking for an opinion on, but wanted to share.

ingeniero, if u mean the olive branch message that I believe is after the events of covenant. in the message is his visual catalogue of experiments which includes daniels and the sleeping colonists when he states something like 'I now have plenty of subjects' or something to that effect.

although prometheous is slightly better, alien covenant is more entertaining so covenant. love them both though. prometheous would probably get an 8.5/10 and alien covenant would get an 8/10.

cheers, great reviews by the way everyone

Prometheus every day and twice on sunday. I have prometheus on blu ray, wont be buying covenant

we also don't see any motes or insect like organisms flying out of the goo when the goo spills out of the urns in Prometheus. it looks just like a liquid goo. more inconsistancies as if there were, why didn't they go for milburn and fifield? plus looking at how quickly they envelope the sacrificial engineer and the engineers on planet 4, the whole crew who entered the room would have been infected. so why wernt they? 

David always wanted to create, so they Engineers gave him a whole planet to experiment. The inhabitants of Paradise were of no use for them anymore, and as such expendable. A good source of dna samples though.

Thombach, this is how John Logan described the mote-insects in the leaked Alien: Covenant script.

"And we focus on one of the INSECTS hovering near him...
MACRO VIEW: It’s watchful, careful. It settles near Ledward’s ear, and then enters the ear canal... the soft pink flesh... quickly
attaches itself -- a feeding tube plunging into his flesh--"

"She gently bats at a cloud of INSECTS in front of her face. A haze of little mote-like MIDGES in the dappled sunlight. And we see one of the insects--
MACRO VIEW: Ever-changing in its form -- lurching and stabbing into new shapes -- oily black but beautiful ... It hovers, has intelligence."

Saying "ever changing in it's form" and into new shapes sounds like the original idea may have been to have individual particles of the black liquid form into a flying shape to make itself mobile in air. Another part of the script indicates the actual insect version came later, after the bombing.

The black fluid forms into hooked and curved spike-like tendril shapes when it erupts out the the Engineers in the bombing sequence, so I suppose they kept some of that shape-change aspect in the movie.

I think that putting together Prometheus and Covenant , we have all the elements to go this route. The idea is David is working for the Engineers (the real ones), because unlike humans, the engineers promised to reward him making him their equal.

(My theory)The engineers have always had this symbiotic relationship with the xenomorph. They are so connected with each other that their DNA is intertwined and cannot be edited. The black goo is basically the product  of the many recombinations of their dna with that of many other species, which they have developed in the hopes to find the perfect host for the xenomorph race. Trial and error. They have enough scientific evidence indicating that it is possible for them to break free from their dependence on the xenomorph by attaching it to another species. They believe, based on their science/religion, that another older race (probably the bird like creature in the murals)have achieved this before. Their "horrific agenda" is actually just their passport for the next stage of their evolution. David quotes HP Lovecraft “That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die”, hinting at this horrific agenda that you mention. But it is very tricky because the xenomorph really has to be part of the collective psyche of the species it's gonna latch onto. They need to be a voluntary, accepting victim, otherwise it won't work. So they also have to visit their children, prepare them.

All this can perfectly connect with the first Alien and go beyond with a war between Engineers and the Human race.

Got it. Thanks.

I hate Covenant, so Prometheus for me.

Ahhh, so someone at Fox goofed up and the had to pull the video to fix it! Funny.

@Kethol

Thanks. I knew it was in the commentary. So the goo can mutate humans and animals into larger and more dangerous versions, or infect them with an embryo that grows into an insect or neo-xeno thing. But it can also infect and form shapes on its own, as you shows in the screen caps of the bombing?

There is some revealing information in John Logan's Alien: Covenant script. Another bit of info giving credence to the "many forms" of the pathogen theory.

"They were as ingenious with their pathogens as they were with everything else. It was designed to infect every living being. Either kill them outright, or mutate into a different lethal form" - David

Plural, not singular. 'Kill outright' or 'mutate' are two forms, but he also says there were 'many forms that were extremely mutable' in the movie. In the script he says "The pathogen took so many forms, and was extremely mutable."

Also, this interesting but about the insect motes.

"The original black liquid turned to lethal particles when exposed to air. Later stages produced parasites and invasive insects. From their eggs came, well... this enviable bestiary."

So the insect variety came later.

Thank you for your answer. Even I think so, but I wanted to add David's death, he will not die by the hand of his creation but because of the Engineers' creation. The human project.                                 

"Au Revoir Shoshanna"

Great video & great analysis!!