Derelict ship in Alien. . .

In Alien Kane says he's in a cavern below ground level so it's not inside the derelict. I think there has been suggestions that the derelict docks with the cavern to pick up the eggs as cargo. Not sure how it would work if the derelict has crashed and is lying on it's side though ......

Yeah good point about the docking with the cavern. On the sides of the cavern, it looks like massive arch type parts on the walls. That looks similar to Xenomorph nesting sites but also SJ technology, I wonder which it is. . .

I think a picture will put things into perspective - and what a beautiful scene this is... [img]http://galeon.com/traditionalfx2/alien/alienmatte.jpg[/img] You can see that the cavern meanders far into the distance and around a few corners.

@Starbeast - See, I definitly see SJ tech mixed with Xenomorph nesting stuff on the walls of the cavern. These two species are definitly linked somehow. . .

LyleP, yes you could definitely argue that both the Derelict and the eggs bay is built by one and the same beings. But here's some more images to argue that the eggs bay is definitely not inside the derelict itself: In this image you get a hint at how the Derelict curves... [img]http://galeon.com/traditionalfx2/alien/alienpainting07.jpg[/img] And here's some humans to give a feel for size... [img]http://cdn.screenrant.com/wp-content/uploads/Official-synopsis-for-Prometheus.jpg[/img] So notice the shape, the size, and also the fact that they enter from the lowest point on the Derelict, and after doing so, are only seen to move on that plane or dive deeper underground. EDIT: Correction, they actually climb up a level to get to the space jockey cockpit/bridge/telescope/cannon - but it's still like 1 level up and 10 storeys down into the egg bay/chamber/hen house. Together with what LyleP and BellaisaAlien has said, I think this is conclusive proof we are dealing with two different structures. Get out of that one, Ridley!

I firmly believe that the derelict is supposed to be in the horizontal position as found in Alien, otherwise the SJ would literarily have to climb the walls to access the telescope chair thing (is there an official name for this?). I've read in other threads that maybe the derelict *is* supposed to be vertical and spins to create some sort of time vortex... Um... No, but I do think that it is the SJ's ship that has FTL travel and not Prometheus (unless, of course Prometheus is the large round ship we see above the waterfall - looks like it can go pretty fast). Too tired right now, will just have to wait until June.

Hello... I'm new to the forum here! I don't know if anybody else has read this about the derelict seen in Alien, but this is worth checking out: http://ioannis.virtualcomposer2000.c.../Derelict.html Out of interest, towards the bottom under Notes, it speculates that the ship could be time travel capable. Wasn't this speculated by other people here and elsewhere?

Everybody has very interesting theories, but according to Sir Ridley, the derelict does have a sort of cargo hold and Ridley has said that the eggs are bio-weapons. And he's stated that the derelict was some sort of bomber type space craft. If we are to examine the dimensions of the derelict it is possible that Kane was lowered into the cargo hold of the derelict... Here are some measurements on the derelict taken from pieces of complied information - - The dimensions in a lot of cases are taken from photos and notes from the ‘Alien Photonovel’, ‘The Book of Alien’... - Most of the measurements are approximate... - INTERIOR EGG ‘CAVE’ – 39.6 m (130’) high SPACE JOCKEY CHAMBER – 12.2 m (40’) high - EXTERIOR PORT PRONG (hammerhead) – 161.6 m (530’) long STARBOARD PRONG – 174.3 m (571.7’) long INGRESS/ EGRESS HOLES – 5.5 m (18’) high x 3.1 m (10.2’) wide HEIGHT AT ‘BRIDGE’ AREA – 33.5 m (180’) high LENGTH OF ‘BRIDGE’ AREA – 43 m (141’) long WIDTH (AFT) – 116.6 m (382.6’) wide WIDTH (AFT BETWEEN PRONGS) – 61 m (200’) wide Quoted from "[i]The ALIEN Universe Timeline[/i]" - From evidence in Alien, we're lead to believe (from the way it was filmed) that the trio went in and then turned left to get to the Space Jockey. However when you look at Giger's drawings it's probably more likely that a tunnel goes straight from the ingress holes to the Space Jockey room, seeing that from the exterior designs the aft end of the ship has a large circular shape. [IMG]http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n484/ThunderOdin25/derelict.jpg[/IMG] So if this information is to be taken into consideration the interior of the Derelict is much more massive than the few scenes shown in ALIEN. Looking at the photo and watching the footage from ALIEN it appears that the bottom portion of the Derelict is concealed by the earth that's grown around it. Just another theory to consider, but we won't know for sure until we see Prometheus!

I think the Prometheus trailer has already indicated that what you see is what you get. Another explanation could be that the Derelict can attach a separate body - like a sidecar to a bike, or a trailer to a car, etc. And in Alien, this extra body has been buried - deliberately or otherwise. But I still think that the layout of the egg bay does not lend itself very well to being transported: surely for transportation, you would pack 'em, rack 'em and stack 'em - not lay them out on a flat plane for as far as the eye can see. Just my strong belief. I know what Ridley said, and it's counter-intuitive, so he's given himself a lot of explaining to do.

Cool, pictures. Isn't that meant to be Ridley's kids in the space suits to make the model of the derelict look bigger........

The phenomenal thing about Prometheus is that according to Ridley Scott and Noomie Rapace. They only used I believe 2 green screens the entire shoot of the film. Glad Ridley Scott came in with his "no bullshit" approach and built the sets.

I know the kids were used in the space jockey set, but it makes sense for it to be them in that shot too.

I've taken the picture of the ship in Prometheus, and horizontally/vertically altered its view in regards to the derilect: [url=http://www.freeimagehosting.net/j5hpd][img]http://www.freeimagehosting.net/t/j5hpd.jpg[/img][/url] It has crashed in a 45 degree position. I support what Kronik and GigerFace has to say, some great points to raise... Also, it looks like the starbound prong might be the engine exhaust port?

Problem with removing the egg cavity is you end up with a ship with no (currently) known purpose. It becomes a space-yacht for one pilot and his four elephant-noids. Then you have to entertain two other theories, if the cave was there before the ship crashed, does the whole planet become the jockey's storage bin? If not, you'd have to believe the ship magically crashed in the right area or retreat to yet another theory; Did something on the ship build the cave after it crashed?

@Starbeast, I think we have to ixnay any human logic when referring to the Space Jockeys/Engineers reasons for things. And the otherworldly art style of Giger is the main reason why Ridley wanted him to design the all things xeno related. If the Derelict is to be a bomber space craft of some sort, how would the eggs get from the Derelict to the population that's up destruction?! Is the layout of the Egg camber essential to the development of the Facehugger?! There are lots of questions and hopefully Sir Ridley has came up with some ingenious ways to explain all or maybe his intent is to leave us with even more compelling questions!

We know the ship is HUGE, and we don't see the path the Nostromo crew take to get into the SJ cockpit once they enter the ship. Is it possible that the ship is almost exclusively egg chamber? They enter the portal and climb a steep ramp to the level of the cockpit. The egg chamber is located under the upper level where the cockpit/dome is located and continues around each horn. I'm not sure I buy the whole docking or underground chamber thing. I think this was a case where they wanted an impressive visual and didn't analyze size, location, and perspective.

I'm thinking pick up point from the cavern myself. I can't see how the derelict could have that much space underneath. It's well out proportion...

The more I think about it, from where they lowered Kane down into the egg chamber (the Space Jockey room which would be right at the top of the ship) maybe there is enough room from top to bottom to allow for that kind of space.

Except that I checked in the orignal film and that bottom part stretches out towards the back for miles and miles.

@Ramskull666, I have to disagree with you. Especially after the trailer potentially shows the Derelict crushing on LV-426, albeit a primeval LV-426. The average human is 2 meters tall, the opening that Dallas, Lambert and Kane go through is 5.5 meters tall itself so already we're dealing with big things. If the novelization information on ALIEN is to be taken as accurate then the Egg Chamber is 39.6 meters tall! That's 130 feet compared to Kane's 6 feet or less. When he's being lowered into the Egg Chamber he looks to be about the right size for a room that's 130 feet tall from floor to ceiling. Also using the Space Jockey room as further comparison, the SJ Chamber is 12.2 meters tall/ 40 feet high from floor to ceiling and again Dallas and the others look in proportion. Now after the Prometheus trailer we can see the SJ/Engineer figure or whoever he is, and he appears to be the right size to fit in the chair, making him around 15 feet tall himself. I think the proportions of everything related to the Derelict fit with what we've seen.

But just because I disagree with @Starbeast and @Ramshull666 doesn't mean that they aren't right and I am. In fact here's another theory to consider. If the Egg Chamber isn't on the Derelict and in fact the Egg Chamber is located underground on LV-426, then maybe we are all taking the crashing of the Derelict, in the Prometheus trailer, out of context. What if the Derelict has already taken off from the planet after loading up eggs from the Egg Chamber and the Prometheus crashes into the Derelict which makes it fall out of the sky back down to the planet?!

So the main consensus is that the cavern below ISN'T part of the Derelict ship itself then?? As when you look at the ship from outside, it's clear that that cavern is way too big especially when you can see it curving around in the distance. . . But then the question is, the walls make it look "man"-made, which begs the question of why the Derelict is in that specific position. . .

Well if the cave is not part of the Derelict, which for proportions sake it couldn't be, then the crash in the trailer could NOT be LV426. As the ship come to a stop on solid unplanned ground. So I reckon we're definitely at least dealing with 2 planets.

Here's the question: Did the thing that burst out of the space-jockey make the eggs? Or were the eggs already there, being transported as bio-chem weapons? What came first, the alien or the egg? When RS says the derilict is filled with weapons, I 'think' he wants us to believe the eggs are the weapons...but who is to say ? I think the ampules contain the original bio-weapon and something goes very, very, wrong... with some almost human help....Androids are bio-mech... imagine that combination... Love this Forum!

Doubt the ships are the same. They really look different when looking at the one in Alien and the one in the trailer. Unless there is damage that we do not see in the trailer they may very well be different scenes. One crashes, one is picking up eggs from their underground environmentally protected storage. This one perhaps lands but the SJ dies due to the critter inside of it and never gets off the ground. Picking them up to deliver to earth?

I'm kinda surprised no one has mentioned this before. I noticed when watching Alien that the Derelict....its front prongs of the ship are about 50 to 75 meters from the ground. In the Prometheus trailer one of those prongs can be seen crashing/sinking into the ground.

If the ship has maximum 2 - 3 decks, it could work. A diagram here shows a conjectural placement of the Cockpit and Egg Chamber: [url=http://www.freeimagehosting.net/l53pp][img]http://www.freeimagehosting.net/t/l53pp.jpg[/img][/url]

I'm still open to the option its a cavern, but perhaps the perspective between the sets and the original concept art for the ship are out a little...

I guess the chamber could be in the ship but the perspective is difficult to see. The curve is similar, the design elements are the same but it sure looks bigger than the ship in the trailer. There really must only be a "bridge" and engines. The rest would have to be storage (at least down one section that we see in the original Alien).

Yes Bazinga, my thoughts exactly...

The hole that leads to the egg chamber from the SJ room is irregular and does not fit in with the design of the rest of that room. It looks like it was [b]acid burned[/b] when it started. This is a foreboding of the face-hugger acid we will later see burning through the decks of the Nostromo. [img]http://i1150.photobucket.com/albums/o612/Nephilim-LV426/Prometheus/Alien-Entrance_Hole_to_Egg_Chamber.jpg[/img] As to the depth of the egg chamber, I think we are supposed to believe it is still within the rounded top area of the derelict. (Nicely diagrammed Ramskull666). Also, notice how the blue protective light covering the eggs is just one section of a massive rounded area that has multiple sections...for what purpose...?

Ramskull, There is an issue with that. The 3 entered the derelict through the vaginal openings in the front middle of the ship. If the egg chamber is where you are saying it is in your diagram then they came in through the egg chamber. In order for the cavern to curve to the right and then back to the left the SJ chair would have to be positioned on the left side of the hammer head. Another issue that is posed here is that the cavern is heated meaning there is still a viable power supply on the derelict. Where is the power core at and how come the Nostromo couldn't pick up on a power source? I also don't think the novelisation dimensions are accurate stating the cave is 130ft high. If you look at Kane going down into the cavern that thing is at least 300ft deep if you figure Kane is around 6ft and he looks like an ant in the picture. Regards, Rick

So I think its an underground cavern that the derelict opened up and the structural work on the cave walls could have been built by the SJ Spawn under the ship.

@Rick - I like your "vaginal" opening name LOL! But yeah, I think the cavern must be a seperate space to what's within the Derelict ship as it curves massively into the distance. . . But this begs the question, why does the cave have similar architecure to the SJ ship??

have been reading this thread. To be honest you are all reading way way too much into this. Its just a continuity error. The egg chamber IS on the derelict. The fact that it is out of proportion is just a filming mistake. Nothing more to it than that. Deal with it. Move on.

You're missing the point High Priest, speculation and reading into things is the point many of these threads. We're doing it for enjoyment and not so we can hold anyone to account on revelation of the plot. Try it - it's pointless fun

Agreed Enderwiggin - However that is my speculation and reading into this thread. Valid, I'm sure you would agree.

Valid - indeed. However I suspect you're right and the egg chamber is actually on the ship, I doubt Giger and Scott had the ruler out when the Derelict was conceived.

Indeed, it is pointless fun! But i agree, Giger and Scott didn't have a ruler at hand when putting things together, and its definitely a filming mistake. And yes Rick, your point is entirely valid. Once again, we will have to wait and see what Prometheus has to offer on this subject...

I wonder if it is a filming mistake at all...I mean...Scott would have changed something there for the special edition they did afterwards if that were the case...No way he himself would have missed that let alone Giger...I think there may be an answer forthcoming during the last "8 minutes" of Prometheus.