The Alien and Jockeys, Biomechanical…or just Biomechanical looking?

The Borg of STAR TREK...biomechanical, the Alien of Acheron...non-biomechanical. Unless of course, it receives an artificial heart transplant. ~N

@arbordoli I have some issues with both of the designs in the pics. I like the front end of the two on the bottom, and the back end of the top pic. So, I guess I like something in between the two. Cool pics though... ~N

I agree with you N. I look at the alien as a silicon based organic life-form with acid for blood (and for defense- sometimes offense when spat or when one sacrifices itself to solve a problem like escaping or releasing a queen). Yes, totally organic....and very beautiful in its design.

I totally agree about the original design with the smooth, jelly-filled, barely transluscent carapace........and thank the Gods they didn't go with a human skull stuck on the end of a banana look.

I have mixed feelings about it. Here is Giger's 1979 Alien which was recently remade in 2007 and auctioned off. http://www.gadgetmadness.com/2007/04/02/buy-the-1979-original-alien-suit-by-h-r-giger/ Now, do you remember ASH and Bishop when they were decapitated had tubes exposed that looked like they were ringed or ribbed (for her pleasure). You can see that the Alien has that look to it with it's extrusion on it's back and veins or arteries running through out it's body especially below the neck line. It's arms also have that look. We can also see the orginal Alien had exposed ribs much like the space jockey does. Perhaps is it 100% pure organic but I also think much of it resembles an androids internal components. To be more percise the Alien tubes look more like washing machine drainage hose [img]http://www.anderson-retail.co.uk/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=1159[/img]

Oh...the human skull is there...just behind that semi-transluscent fore-skull, watching...ever watching. Kane's son. N

[img]http://www.starstore.com/acatalog/Alien-bust-giger-1-01.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.starstore.com/acatalog/alien-bust-giger-e.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.starstore.com/acatalog/Alien-prop-replica-01.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.starstore.com/acatalog/alien-prop-1-e.jpg[/img] Which one looks better?

@BioShock Speaking of tubes, have you ever noticed the one that gets jerked loose from the Alien's head when it's struggling to get free of Ripley's steam blast in the shuttle, near the end of the original '79 ALIEN? Oops! Talk about a wardrobe malfunction! HA! N

Depends what you mean by organic? Metal is organic everything physical in the universe is organic if you mean its formed of elements and stuff. Metal isnt just a solid lump its an intricate design of so much more hence Liquid metal mercury (something that can be solid and liquid at the same time). Is it possible for fleshy cell like matter to be connected in unison with metalic technological matter. In human terms 2012 A.D no way but if your a superior race with 1 billion years of technology behind you Peace of cake. Its like going back 2000 years to guys giving sermons on mounts with clay tablets and saying to them you can show them how to give sermons on mounts with liquid crystal high res graphic ipads, they would look at you and go "how the hell did that get built" your answer "2000 years of research" Biotech, Nano tech is the ability to crack open a molecule and reprogram it so that instead of a cells producing a body that just fleshy it could produce a body with sulphuric blood, metallic parts ingrained in its flesh and so forth, its beyond our thinking today but in 2000 years will be a peace of cake.

Ah, my old "suit not 'suit' " friend.... Let's discuss please. Is the space-jockey all organic (i.e. not wearing a suit) -or- is he an organic creature wearing an inorganic suit? Support your answer. Go. Don't mean to hijack your thread, N, but I'd like to stretch your topic to include not just the Xeno, but their creators as well...if that's cool.

The above pics look like a cross between that thing pulled from Shaw and a human head @ Neurion I'll watch it again, never noticed the malfunction!

Well, from my point of view…non-organic means non-living. Ya know? No life in it! At least, not anymore. Most lumps of metal are not alive…most, though I know of a few that have a heartbeat.

Well of course the Engineers are Organic... If by Space Jockeys you mean the suit that goes over the engineers, it's most likely bio-mechanical. It somehow corresponds to it's function. Maybe it goes over the Engineer who has to occupy the chair, because the entire room becomes a vacuum, and there is no air? It breathes for them? More than likely it correlates to it's function. As for the Xenomorphs, organic. A Bio-Organic Weapon. However, after watching Alien, initially, i thought that there was some epic origin to the Xenomorphs. Natural origin. But that seems like wishful thinking. Oh well...

When I first watched Alien about 14 years ago I didn't think of the alien as being biomechanical. I sort of thought the mechanical look of the alien was a result of it's enviorenment. The Nostromo is a mechanical enviornment. The alien having an exo-skeleton shaped with tubes, hoses, and a metalic finish is the equivilent to an insect that lives in the trees and has wings shaped like a leaf. The scene that made me think of this is the one in the escape pod where the alien is hiding in the wall amongst the pipes. You didn't even know it was there until it moved. Now I know on earth it takes a millenia for this kind of evolution to take place but given the alien can grow to 8 feet in a matter of hours and is silicon based allready shows us that earth-rules don't apply.

Naw, it's alright...go right ahead an hijack away...or off. HA! Ya know what? Ridley's already started jerkin' around with my own personal imaginings of the SJs, so I just don't know anymore. guess I figure that the Jockey's are completely organic, and the suits are mechanical or some bio/mech hybrid. ~N

@ abordoli ...L-O-L @ my "suit" post.... You misunderstood. I meant...ok, ok...Im confused. When people say "Space Jockey" nowadays, are they referring to the thing on the seat from the first film that is also making an appearance in Prometheus? Or, the Engineers...? Damn it, all... Alright, alright...Anyway... Basically what i was trying to say was: The suit...eer...Space Jockey *facepalm* uuughh... (They really should have officially named these things a while ago) Is actually a suit that the Engineers go INTO, to operate that telescope/cannon/chair thing. It responds to whatever it's purpose is. I imagine it allows for breathing in a vacuum, and it's a bio-mech/organic suit that forms OVER the user once they sit in place. I always interpreted it that way when i saw the tube coming out of the mask area. I'm content on it being a suit. No way in hell you're gonna sit down, and be able to walk around with that thing after the fact. Not a chance. Clearly, from the footage in the trailer, you see it wrapping itself around the engineer that's under it.(let's just assume it's an engineer...My only logical guess, humans aren't worthy :) The chair is a main feature/function of the ship. Either directly relating to the ship, or one of it's features (bio-engineering going on aboard the ship). The room, also, if you'll notice, is HUGE. It's possible the entire room depressurizes, and goes into a complete vacuum state...For...Some reason...I have no freakin' idea. **ALSO: IMPORTANT** For all those of you who are not sure what passes for organic. People here are talking about Organic LIFE. AKA: What falls under the principles/rules of C H N O P S (pronounced Schnapps, like the drink, i refer to it as CHNOPS myself...Just easy that way. If you've watched Nova you'd understand) ...anyway... Carbon, Nitrogen, Oxygen, Phosphorus, Sulfur. The building blocks of Organic life, as we know it. The basis for organic life. It's what we, ourselves, are made of.

"I agree with you N. I look at the alien as a silicon based organic life-form with acid for blood (and for defense- sometimes offense when spat or when one sacrifices itself to solve a problem like escaping or releasing a queen). Yes, totally organic....and very beautiful in its design." How do you explain it's growth rate? I mean it must have incorporate inorganic materials to have had grown that size so quickly in the Nostromo, hinting to an either artificial construct eating away at the fuses of the ship (Parker talks to Ripley about fuses going out shortly after's Kane death) or a very good stomach.

Talking all hypothetically within this fictional universe of course: Well, we know that the Xeno grows like a crab, multing its exoskelton except we don't see large amounts of the multed shell (does it eat it like a crab does?). Now, if the Xeno is silicon based then I start to think of crystals and crystalline growth and having had Grow-Your-Own-Crystal kits, I have witnessed exponential growth rates with seemingly small amounts of reagents. I think this is the process by which the Xeno might grow at an accelerated rate. So what would a silicon-based lifeform need as food (reagents) to grow because we know it doesn't eat us carbon-based lifeforms (we're much too valuable as a raw-material for its reproductive process, facehugger or Dallas-eggsicle)? What has been in most of the environments that is silicon-based? Glass? Well that certainly works for Alien, Aliens, Alien3 and Alien R, but this isn't the case with AvP1/2, unless the Predators stored the necessary accelerants in AvP1. But in AvP 2, we've got Xeno's growing willy-nilly. We saw some in the sewers, some in the forest. Not really a good place for accelerants. So maybe, the Xeno's accelerants are not external, but internal already present and like that insulation foam in a spray can they have the means within themselves to self-inflate (while rapidly shedding). It's like the lycans that I saw in Underworld: Awakening. A couple were huge. From where did they obtain this extra mass. The hulk in the Avengers movie I saw. Where does he get his extra mass? Well with him it's got something to do with the gamma radiation stuff. So, if it works for lycans and the hulk, why can't we have the same suspension of disbelief with the Xenos? Seems only fair....

@Neurion: Totally with you. As Giger said..he felt as an artist and person exposed to external risks of life. He tried to implement this to his style of art. He said he figured thoses biomechanoids as sensitive creatures that have to protect themselves with an external skeleton, suit, armory...robot like externally. The fact that his design was picked for the 1979 movie, was due to its uniqueness. The book wouldn't really describe a biomechanoid being exactly I believe...To me it was what it was. Not biomechanical. On the other hand..we have the words of Sir Ridley Scott himself: there are a lot of biomechanoid creatures in Prometheues...some pretty new and groundbreaking too. Maybe he wanted to honour and hold true the cinematographic biomechanoid style of the alien of 1979? He would have too...

@Neurion: Totally with you. As Giger said..he felt as an artist and person exposed to external risks of life. He tried to implement this to his style of art. He said he figured thoses biomechanoids as sensitive creatures that have to protect themselves with an external skeleton, suit, armory...robot like externally. The fact that his design was picked for the 1979 movie, was due to its uniqueness. The book wouldn't really describe a biomechanoid being exactly I believe...To me it was what it was. Not biomechanical. On the other hand..we have the words of Sir Ridley Scott himself: there are a lot of biomechanoid creatures in Prometheues...some pretty new and groundbreaking too. Maybe he wanted to honour and hold true the cinematographic biomechanoid style of the alien of 1979? He would have too...

Lycans rule!!! The days are getting lesser. Cant wait to feast my eyes. Imo maybe we're all reading too much into every little detail. But seriously ya'll need to get over the fact that there are no xenos in this movie. 8)

I think we can all agree that the original SJ, fused in his chair, seemed to have been one entire flowing organic "mass". I don't believe that we were seeing anything skeletal in the sense that terran carbon-based life-form, especially mammals, have skeletons, but it appeared that what we were seeing was exo-skeletonish. Fossilized and fused mysteriously all complete with a chestburst exhibit. I never thought that a live SJ would be "fleshy", but instead would be quite similar to the Xeno, but the color of sand. Enter Prometheus: We see grey looking SJs. Still not "fleshy", but appearing to have a common ancestor of the Xeno due to some common characteristics. I wouldn't be surprised if the SJs were silicon-based and also had acid for blood. I am highly skeptical that we are going to see the real SJs being "fleshy" putting themselves into an exo-skeletal suit that then makes them look like the original SJ and SJs we have seen. Perhaps a lot of my bias emanates from the non-canonical comics that featured SJs. RS cab do what he wants for he has the license to fabricate anything while at the same time linking their look back to original SJ. I'm not hung up on this or anything. Simply bored and rambling on for the sake of entertaining discussion. Nothing more.... P.S. @vixen, I don't see any mention in this thread where anyone is discussing (let alone griping) that Xenos are not in Prometheus. I believe we're all happy they won't be. We're just talking about organic/non-organic properties of the SJs, FHs and Xenos.

@abordoli --- jip definetly not mentioned in this thread bt it seems to be genral feeling amungst some fans - not all- that they'd'wish to see the Xeno in there somewhere , afterall the alien is genius I don't think anything matches the design of Alien in sci-fi I was scared shitless the first time I saw the movie and I saw Aliens first and then Alien it was on cable and I was like 10 or 9. Yep left a big impact. So I am one of those wishful fans :)

@abordoli Grow-Your-Own-Crystal kits, i had them.... now i wonder if we should have done a wacky experiment and played Bio Engineer/Jockey... and thats if we could only fuse the Grow-Your-Own-Crystal kit with the Grow Your Own Sea Monkeys.... Then again potentially that could have created something that maybe goes wrong, like 7ft Sea Monkeys and wipe out Mankind... lol oh well its kind of what i think the Engineers did with the Xeno a experiment that went AWOL. As far as Bio Mechanical, well to me that means one thing... A Machine thats Living. But then we are already a living robot made from Organic Material. I think in context with the movie, the term Bio Mechanical would mean a Technology and indeed maybe every day objects that the Engineers use that are 1) Part Living, or all living to a degree, 2) a Technolgy the Engineers can actually bond and fuse themselves with. I look at it like this and i said in other threads. A Snake wears its Skin, and a Gorilla wears its Fur Coat as part of its own body, the skin/coat is as one it lives and is fused and part of the animal. When we buy a fur Coat or a Snakeskin Jacket or Shoes, they are not fused as part of our own Organism, they are dead peices of Skin that we wear. The Bio Engineers have created a suit that when worn would be like a Fur Coat that when worn actually becomes part of you, just as it is with a Gorilla and its Fur Coat. The Juggernaught ship again is like say a Woden Ark/Ship but its not where the Wood is dead after being cut from the Tree. Its as if the Woden Boat is still alive just as the Wood was when it was a Tree. As far as the Xeno, i do think that maybe the Xeno is a creation made years ago that involves manipulation and joining of the DNA that indeed is a part of the Cobra Worm and other Organanisms. But its also that DNA/Substance thats fused with a Bio Engineer. With Mankind the options are.... 1) We Evolved from Apes over Time (Darwin Evolution). 2) Created from nothing by Gods magic wand. (Bible Creation). 3) Created by a experiment/hybrid of Ape DNA and some Alien Race of Creators (Ancient Alien Creators). Now if we switch that to the Xeno. 1) Is a Evolution of Organism that is related on a Evolution scale to the Organisms in Prometheus, like how Dog could be to Cat. 2) Created from Organisms and DNA and what ever else by the Engineers, a experiment just as say Mankind invented the Wheel. 3) A combination of all above, a Experiment using the DNA/Fire of the Engineers/Gods, with some kind of Organism and then mixed with a Engineer. I go for option 3) Maybe it goes for the route that the Engineers created us by seeding their DNA with a Primative Primate. The Xeno is created by seeding their DNA with the Organism etc that is progenitor to all the forms of Alien DNA in those Urns. Thus Engineer+ Ape makes Humans, Engineer plus other related to creatures in this movie DNA makes the Xeno.

As far as the SJ and the Chair etc.... As i said i think their Tech is able to fuse with the Engineers. It would be like how say a Snail that can leave its Shell and thus become a Slug then go back and fuse back with its Shell, or a Tortoise that can leave its Shell and be like a Lizard/Reptile and then go back and fuse with its Shell. A Tortoise and Snail cant survive without its Shell it is actually fused to it, it would be like skinning a animal and i dont mean like shave a sheeps coat. But the Engineers can fuse and unfuse with their suits and the Chair etc. The purpose of the suits.... A combination of... [img]http://www.freelancecoursedirector.com/Portals/0/Website%20Pics/Tec%20Deep%20Diver.jpg[/img] And [img]http://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/lowres-picturecabinet.com/43/main/22/101150.jpg[/img] It helps them to breath in hostile places, i mean if they never needed it then why do they nee oxygen etc that the human crew can breath? And it also is a protective suit they maybe wear for when they contuct their genetic experiments with the Organic Materials in those Urns. The suit fuses to the Chair simply like a seat belt. Lets imagine that the Chair is a Cannon, their is a window at the top of the Juggernaught/Derelict lets say this opens up while in Space. The Blue Guy with no SJ Suit and if the Chair never fused him, would what, maybe die just like we would if we went into space with no space suit and also would be sucked into the vaccum of space.

The more and more i look at pics of the xeno, it looks like a human in a helmeted spacesuit, with a "mouthburster" inside of him, mutated all together with "Engineer" dna.

@BigDave Yeah, pretty much saying exactly what i said in regards to the chair, just elaborating a bit more. Really, it's the only logical way of looking at it. It doesn't look like it's mechanical... It clearly forms around the user. So i think we've got the SJ seat down, it's bio-mechanic, or bio-organic; controlled by their tech. Which... still pretty much makes it bio-mechanic. :) @abordoli You seem to be torn. You agree on the chair being organic, but you're skeptical about the function of the suit; forming over the user. Could you clarify? I just looked at it that way because it's their tech, they use it. There's no way in hell a human could use the SJ seat. I mean, seriously, now. If it doesn't form around the user, how the hell does it work? If it's an entity on it's own, then... That's pretty word. Only explaination: That's a SJ who's premanently fused in that position, who serves as, yet again, some function of the ship, or controls functions of the ship. The ship itself, or it's features (bio-engineering aboard the ship). Now that i think about it, that would be pretty neat, too. He would kinda be like the morbidly-obese vampire from the first Blade movie. Except, or course, with a much higher purpose :).

@BigDave & Prenihility, I stand corrected and I have now been convinced. Suit not "suit"....LOL. ; )