Two Different Space Jockey Vessels…Or The Same One?

my take is that everything in prometheus looks more metal and less organic than in Alien ... urns-egg ...space jockey chair ... ship ... corridors,,,so i dont know if its only a stylsh choice or is part of the plot

They look like different models to me. :) Similar , but still different.

Yeah, similar but different. On purpose or artistic licence?

Simply using all the artwork and modeling which had been done previously for the "Alien" derelict/sets ( there are piles of it in the [i]public[/i] record ) would have been just as easy, if not easier, than making changes to the designs. Such changes wouldn't make sense, if the ship in this movie was intended to represent the same one we saw in "Alien."

similar for sure, but not the same (to me) the only real difference i can see on the latest ship, are those sharp thorn-looking protrusions on the sides and top of this latest vessel other than that, i'd say they are pretty close in comparison

I think the derelict from Alien is the same ship except its been weathered and has been sitting there for a long time with the changes in temp and the hostile environment, maybe the alien that burst out of the Sj has changed it to a small degree making it all moist and bloated

I think they are the same ship just a fresher look or what they consider an up to date look

Also note the back of the of the "Prometheus".. from the explosion shot you can see the back of the ship. Then look at this site and you will see that they are not the same.. http://ioannis.virtualcomposer2000.com/writing/Derelict.html

They look sort of the same, other than the new one is heavy metallic, less organic (as Frantz said) and has a longer...telescopic dong? Neurion you just scratched that spot in my brain I could not reach NOooo! they are different, so is the space jockey control room. I believe I am seeing an alternate Egyptianesque alien universe, DJ Spin in the house! Then silence as the clock strikes midnight! holy crap is it ever quiet....great time to meditate in the safety of our merkaba. Meditation Party in our Merkaba [img]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5IUAnm1te5k/SXsev2j2aWI/AAAAAAAAAMw/kKWva_wQLys/s400/Estrela+Tetraedrica.jpg[/img] I meditate on...if there is such a thing as too much trance. UHummmm especially if you fall asleep listening to it. I used to listen to "stop smoking hypnotism". I used love that stuff as a kid. Great for afternoon naps. Funny thing is I smoke but I don't smoke that often or that much and can go weeks and months with out it. UHUMmmmm ummm [img]http://everydayfunnyfunny.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/mentos-cigerrete.jpg[/img] Mentos for your Merkaba Why do they taste so good? You know if your meditation is working if your pupils are dilated!

Maybe this "new look" Derelict is how Giger or Scott originally intended it to look. Also take into account three things... 1. The average filmgoer (ie not one of us Alien geeks) will not see the "minor" differences, and few it as the same ship. 2. In both Alien and Aliens Special Edition what little we see of the derelict from the outside is obscured and grainy, nowhere near as clear as the image at the top of this thread. 3. Ridley said that he never liked the way it looked on camera, claimed it looked like a minature model. And Cameron had to work with a broken model of the original.

As said at the beginning of this thread, "Ridley’s eye is very discerning and scrutinizing". So I'm pretty sure the differences are not unintentional. But rather than there being 2 derelict crashed ships I suspect something happens to the derelict after the crash which transforms it into biomechanical.

I believe both are the same ship. I agree with Scot in that weathering should change it, adding a layer of dust and changing colors. What bothers me, on the other hand, is that the terrain doesn´t look the same. We don´t know at this moment how much time lapsed between the events in Prometheus and Alien (agreeing that Prometheus actually is a prequel), but I think unlikely that that amount of geological change would let the ship unaltered.

The geological change in the terrain, seems to me could explain how the derelict wound up more horizontal in Alien, whereas in Prometheus it's almost straight up. The ship could be a very strong construction which is why it remains pretty much intact after the explosion, crash, and any subsequent geological upheaval.

For all we know the derelict may let topple over in Prometheus.

Neurion, I am curious and I need someone to explain this to me because I just Do NOT get it. Look at the two pics you posted, Just LOOK AT THEM... I just do NOT get any of this...I do not understand how anyone can look at those two pics and say that's two different ships, I mean I understand how it is totally possible, but what I do not get is How anyone can look at those two pics and think and say to themselves, "yup, that's 2 different ships" I mean for crying out loud they LOOK LIKE THEY are EXACTLY THE SAME !!! EXACT SAME HAMMER ON THE SAME SIDE OF ONE OF THE ARMS EXACT SAME WHATEVER IT IS ON THE OTHER SIDE AND THE OTHER ARM THE TEXTURES IN BOTH PICS ARE EXACTLY THE SAME I MEAN IT IS FROM APPEARANCE THE EXACT SAME SHIP AND I FAIL TO SEE WHERE THIS ANY EVIDENCE WHAT SO EVER THAT THIS IS NOT THE CASE... GUESS I MUST BE DUMB OR SOMETHING 'CAUSE THIS ALL JUST MAKES ZERO SENSE TO ME ...IT IS EXACTLY THE SAME FRIKKING SHIP OR ELSE IT;S SO CLOSE THAT I CANNOT UNDERSTAND FOR THE LIFE OF ME HOW THERE IS EVEN ANY DEBATE ABOUT THIS!!!!

My feelings as well sparky. So what if there are a few small differences, all in all its the same ship. Nit-picking geek alert IMO, no offence. You know like comic book guy in the Simpsons.

@Spartacus, Look at the picture of the ship in the mid air explosion shot. Then look at this link. http://ioannis.virtualcomposer2000.com/writing/Derelict.html Notice the back of the ship... and you will see they are not the same.

@Spartacus You might be completely accurate. The two ships in the two photos may be intended by the filmmakers to be the exact same ship. It’s just that I, and apparently a few others, see differences in the new films design of the craft…and are curious about the possible explanation…if there is one. These are your words… “I mean for crying out loud they LOOK LIKE THEY are EXACTLY THE SAME !!!” “EXACT SAME HAMMER ON THE SAME SIDE OF ONE OF THE ARMS” “EXACT SAME WHATEVER IT IS ON THE OTHER SIDE AND THE OTHER ARM” “THE TEXTURES IN BOTH PICS ARE EXACTLY THE SAME” “I MEAN IT IS FROM APPEARANCE THE EXACT SAME SHIP AND I FAIL TO SEE WHERE THIS ANY EVIDENCE WHAT SO EVER THAT THIS IS NOT THE CASE...” End quote. Ya know…I’ve been watching, reading, and studying ALIEN movie “stuff”…for 32 years…ever since I was an obsessed little “Alieophile”…especially Giger’s work and related effects work. I’ve been an illustrator ever since I could hold a crayon…and similarly Ridley Scott…I too have a very discerning and scrutinizing eye. To me, the differences in the Derelict ship’s model work are fairly subtle, I agree…but there none the less. And if it is there, I thought it might be interesting to read other member’s opinions…including yours…as to what this could mean to the PROMETHEUS storyline. Especially in light of amount and attention to detail that is usually expressed by members of this website. So, sorry if this all seems a bit kooky…but I just can’t get past the fact…that the designs look different TO ME. AND, if Scott and company are intending to pass these two designs off…as the same spacecraft...without further explanation, this particular “Alieophile” will be disappointed. Peace, Neurion

It isn't so much the external appearance, but the "map-room" that seems to indicate it's not the same ship. The differences in that case, are farily obvious. Is it entirely [i]possible[/i] that they're one and the same...?...sure, but why make changes, when replicating the original set perfectly, would have been so simple?

I say why replicate something you've already done when you can improve upon it and do things you couldn't do the first time round.

@Snorklebottom Nit-picking geek alert IMO, no offence. You know like comic book guy in the Simpsons. ~Snorklebottom You’re kidding with this right? NEWS FLASH! This whole flippin’ website is a “NIT-PICKING GEEK ALERT” Duuuuude…are you gonna tell me that what we’re talkin’ about here is any more Geekish than the rest of the shit flyin’ around these forums? No offence, but Gee Whiz…talk about geek discrimination and splitting hairs… Thanks for the laugh Snork. Peace, Neurion

my point exactly... Yes the ship looks a little different that it did originally, so what, its a close enough aproximisation for me, and to the average viewer. Only the most anal of geeks will see it as a problem. Am I wrong.

Could it pass for anyone but obsessive geeks like....er[i].....us[/i]? Of course, but why confuse your most dedicated, obsessive fans with fairly obvious inconsistencies, when the original designs were already so "alien" and didn't really need to be "new and improved"? As I've said before: if the SJ ship in "Prometheus" [i]is[/i] the derelict from "Alien" then Scott has deliberately lied about this movie [i]not[/i] being a direct prequel. No ifs, ands or buts.

Guys, as far as the differences in the derelict's interior go between Prometheus and Alien, I'm really confidant that I can explain is, and I'm sure there are already other huge alien fans around here that know the following fact too:- First, forget for a moment how, when and where the 'xeno' (I'll call them for ease) came from. When a xeno 'infestation' (if you like) decides to 'move in' they go about creating their hive/habit. This is done using the body parts of other sacrificed xeno's together with their own secretions (the one in Alien was starting to do something similar like this with itself in the Narcissus whilest Ripley was hiding the cupboard and putting on her space suit). In some of the scenes in Alien you can see that some of the odd wall structure is made up rows and rows of large cigar-shaped items placed/'glued' next to each other (and some other bits look a little bones, etc) well those parts (I'm fairly certain!) are the top-most part of a xeno's head viewed from underneath (the top/outer surface of the head being the surface attached to the walls). So, the reason for internal differences must therefore simply be due to the fact the derelict simply has yet to be 'infested' and converted to a xeno's habitat and what we're seeing in Prometheus is how the not-yet-derelict (or a.n.other or similar or whatever you decide to go with to avoid argument lol) originally looked as the Space Jockey's shipyard intended lol.

LOL GUYS, I gotta tell you, half the time I read stuff here and think I am dumb or slow or something, I mean you guys are seeing and noticing things I never do. For me it is entirely possible that the Engineer's have a Fleet full of these ships, but the design and look of each one of them is probably going to tun out to be the exact same ting if that is the case. Given what we know about the film Alien, and this one, I would say the odds that the derelict depicted in the trailer is not the exact same one are about 50 "Ga-Billion" if that's even a word, to 1. I just am trying to grasp why so very many people seem to me to be looking for something wrong in the trailer or some hidden mistake they can find to discredit the work that was and continues to be done on this film. To me what is most amazing thing about that ship is how absolutely beautiful it is and how original it looks !!! The Fact that it is an inflatable prop sitting in one of the production crew guys' backyard in England also excites me to no end but no one ever talks about that either. For 33 years I have been asking myself why there hasn't been any talk of getting This franchise going again, and now that it is, I am heartbroken by all the hate and looking for problems people are doing. It turns me off to talking about the film. To me it's just so damned exciting that we've made it to this point at all, and all I can think of is How greatfull I am to Ridley Scott {and everyone else involved}for even agreeing and deciding to do this at all, and especially at his age. Last night I watched the Directors Cut Of Alien for what must be the hundredth some odd time since '79, and I noticed something I had not before and thought to myself I wonder how long it will be before someone else notices it as well and then makes a thread about saying how it discredits a film they haven't even seen yet, because from a technical point of view it's BIG DEAL but I ONLY noticed it because of the posts made here on this web site pointing out all the anomalies and I never would have even noticed it at all had it not been for the never ending discussions we have been having here about the guy beside the SJ chair. What I noticed is that In Alien, there are NO compartments on the top layer of the SJ's chair, no sleeping chambers, no secret chambers, no special switches or doors or windows. What there is however is a HOLE, just as there has always been, burnt into the HULL of the Derelict. This means tons of things but most of all it means that the Engineer's themselves did not put EGGS in the Derelict, and that a XENO Queen almost certainly layed them there. Now If I make some thread about this it's going to make some people go crazy, because they have been doing everything they can to discredit the idea that that ship is even the Derelict at all. My whole point is this... I am going to like or not like what I see in this film for itself, for what it is, in and of itself, and not how it all fits with what I saw in Alien the first time 33 years ago. If I worry anymore about continuity errors my head will explode, I mean there are so MANY on those already in Cameron's Aliens that had we held that film up to the same scrutiny everyone is holding Alien up to it would get a completely failing grade. I must have noticed 15 continuity errors in Aliens in the past week alone!!! lat nite for the first time ever, I noticed there were chair marks on the window in med lab before Ripley hits the window with the chair, and I only did because someone mentioned it a few days ago right here. IMO, and at this point, If we all dig deep enough we are going to ruin the entire experience for ourselves!!!

Thats just it, and this isn't the first time I've posted this... IMO Prometheus is a Space Jockey film, NOT an Alien (as in Xenomorph) film. Yes it is set in the same universe and yes, through the Space Jockeys the two franchises are linked, but that is all. Has it not been said that this is NOT an Alien film and that the only link to Alien will be seen in the final 8 minutes, which IMO is the crash of the Derelict. Also I seem to recall that Ridley was never happy with the Derelicts original design, which one could presume is why he might have changed it.

To add my own twist to Herks post... What if the ship is mechanical, but becomes bio-mechanical once a pilot has been fused into the chair. Upon doing so the pilot and ship become one, a symbiotic relationship. the pilot becomes overwhelmed by the ships vast knowledge and the ship extrapolates biological matter from the pilot, evolving the ship. Maybe that is why there is a difference...

Thanks Neurion, I wrote a detailed reply but again, the editor erased it and logged me out rather than posting it when I clicked for it to. Now I am upset again and do not feel like posting/ re typing the whole ting but the bottom line was this... The constant scrutiny that people here are putting this film under is going to destroy there own enjoyment of the film. Last night I watched the director's cut of both Alien & Aliens, for what must have been the Hundredth some odd time for each since '79-'86' ONLY because of THIS WEBSITE did I notice something in Both Films I had not in all the other times I watched both. First in Alien, for the first time ever, I noticed there are NO secret chambers at all on the SJ chairs platform, there are no windows, no doors, no compartment for housing eggs at all or anything else it is just a chair with gun site fused to it for practical use at war. What there IS, is what we have always known there to be, One Square Burn off the right side of it, period end of story. If not that BURN there are No Eggs, if not for a Queen, there are no eggs, there is/was NO COMPARTMENTAL door created in the Jockey platform on that ship to house them...there was NO cargo transported from far away other than XENOMORPHS, meaning there could have been only Ampules on that ship and nothing else other than Xeno's and the Jockey himself. #1- I never notice this if not for what's going on this web site, which is not a good thing. It could ruin this film for everyone who goes into it expecting impecable continuity! #2- If I make a new thread and post up about it it's gonna drive some people out of their minds. They are making a decision to hold this thing up to a kind of unprecedented scrutiny that no film i have seen in the past 50 years has even been put through, except maybe one of the biggest flops in movie history, "Ishtar" which was written and performed by Warren Beatty and Dustin Hoffman of all people. #3- The thing I noticed in Aliens was even more disturbing, I actually saw one of the animatronic rods behind the Queen when near the end of the film when Ripley confronts it, and had I noticed that when I saw it in the theaters I would have had a much less favorable opinion on that film...and sadly I noticed some other things as well, like the film not aging properly and some of the dialogue being completely unrealistic and even flat out just technically fraught with errors. In one scene I noticed Gorman tells the "Marines Not to fire" their weapons and instructs Apone to "collect Magazines from everyone", and the cameras switch to the marines themselves and Hicks pulls out a little shotty for "use in emergencies" he says, and it's like they aren't obeying them and using their own stowed away weapons anyways, and then they proceed directly to the Heat Exchangers and start firing on the Aliens, which means, technically, everybody died and Aliens Ends right there from the thermal nuclear explosion they where they were just supposedly severely warned not to cause, but the film ignores this point completely, and it is THE MOTHER OF ALL CONTINUITY ERRORS I HAVE EVER NOTICED IN ANY FILM. The character of Gorman is 100% unacceptable as a platoon leader, and completely oblivious to standard Marine protocol...and whats worse, how James Cameron and his biaaatch of an ex wife allowed that all to stay in the directors cut of that film is MInd Boggling!!! What are we discussing though? All the ways Ridley Scott must be crazy 'cause that's not matching the Derelict from Alien...I mean...seriously... What's wrong with this whole picture? cause something most certainly is!!! We are ruining this film experience for ourselves 5 1/2 months before we even have it.

@ Snorklebottom, I totally agree with you about Prometheus not being an Alien film, I think it will become its own franchise. I did do a very crude picture to explain this and posted it up on another thread.

dont you also think that the ship of the first image ( the smooth one ) would be a bit ridicolous while flyng ? While the prometheus one is less ..."scary" ...but look much better as a spaceship

Neurion, Thanks for the most patient and detailed reply, it is very appreciated. Yesterday I watched the Directors cut of Alien and the Theatrical release of Aliens and in both films noticed some pretty serious errors that I never would have had it not been for this web site. Sad. I actually noticed some things in Aliens like it not aging very well at all and some things had I noticed back in '86 In would have ruined that film for me and I would have hated it. And in one scene in Aliens there is such a massive error that the film should have ended the moment it occurs in the film, that's how bad an error it is!!! The one I noticed in Alien is just as bad and far more blatant, but it is only an error with consideration to Prometheus, but it has MASSIVE IMPLICATIONS. The SJ platform has NO COMPARTMENTS what so ever in Alien, no sleeping chambers, no secret windows or doors, no switches, no levers, nothing!!! PERIOD !!! Flat as pancake with no writing or anything else on that platform. What there is, The ONLY thing there is...is a BURN on the side of the ships Hull. Meaning there were NO EGGS on that ship in space! Period Yet Again. There were only Xenomorphs whether contained in the bio code of the Ampules on board before it crashed or by themselves hiding and/or scattered below the ship, but the ONLY entrance in there is via the BURN...meaning also that there was at least One Queen on the derelict when it crashed. No Eggs, they had to have been layed there by a Queen, and there is no even debating this, there are no secret chambers on the platform, just the Burn !!! It's the Only entrance way to the underbelly of that ship shown in the film Alien and furthermore the platforms of the supposedly new SJ and the supposedly OLD SJ do not match, AT ALL !!! So, If I make a new post and mention my finding it'll more than likely drive some people out of their minds. My point is, the scrutiny we are holding this film up to is REDICULOUS. AND IT WILL RUIN OUR ABILITY TO ENJOY THE MOVIE IN THE THEATER WHEN IT IS RELEASED!!! i AM COMPLETELY CONVINCED THAT IT IS THE EXACT SAME JOCKEY ROOM THEY ARE DEPICTING THERE SO AM I GOING TO LET IT RUIN THE FILM FOR ME IF THEY ALLOW THIS ERROR TO RUN IN PROMETHEUS...?... IT MIGHT, AND I ONLY NOTICED IT BECAUSE OF THE SCRUTINY EVERYONE IS HOLDING PROMETHEUS UP TO AND THE POSTS ABOUT ALL THE THINGS THAT PEOPLE SAY DO NOT MATCH OR FIT WITH ALIEN PROPERLY !!!

Sparky... From what I recall in Alien Dallas, Lambert and Kane only see 2-3 parts of the derelict, with Kane seeing the egg chamber in the bowels of the ship, a ship that completely dwarfed them in size. Therefore it is highly likely that the rest of the ship which they didn't explore had some sort of access to the egg chamber. Also on film it is never shown that the eggs were originally urns. I can see that you obviously like the idea, but it is not fact it is theory, and will remain so until proven otherwise. Lets try and use provable facts to ascertain what may or may not be in Prometheus. We all have theories, but until Prometheus comes out, that is all they are... just theories.

My whole point, what I am saying is that we cannot let all these little details take control of us like this, they are insignificant, we are going to see whatever Ridley wants us to. You conveniently left out the fact that the Platforms just plain do not match, and I still insist it is the exact same platform. It is NOT UP TO US to decide how things should or need to be. Should I absolutely HATE the film Aliens now because what happens underneath the Heat Exchangers makes ZERO sense and the entire complex should have exploded at the very moment Gorman did NOT tell Apone & The Marines WHY they had to shoulder their weapons? How many of Hick's Shotgun shells would have ruptured the tanks? How many of Hudson's Pulse rifle rounds would have blown up the entire facility...?...well...logic says...every single one of them...the whole scene makes zero sense now !!! What I am saying is almost exactly what you just said, unless anyone is 100% positive AND got it first hand from Ridley himself, it's a better than a great bet that it's all B.S.

Exactly... But regards the Aliens thing there's something called "suspension of disbelief", all that weapons fire should have caused the plant to go BOOM then an there, what Cameron asks as of us the audience is to suspend our disbelief that all that weapons fire did was slightly damage the reactors. After all are you not watching a film with people wearing rubber suits expecting you to believe they are acid for blood killing machines, suspension of disbelief.

plus i dont think someone know ( here and there ) how was the protection of the nuclear plant/tanks ...maybe was enough to sustain HE rounds ...and its more reasonable ... no one gone mad could destroy all the station with a few rounds . PS you could ruin yourself every movie watching details ... but i dont think we have to deal with movies in that way otherwise we fall into geekism aka "missing the whole thing in favour of some details"

Yup My point exactly! I agree completely with you! I have always embraced that concept, the one of suspension of disbelief, and a real good example of it in the Theater is Tarantino's films...to enjoy them, you have to suspend your disbelief completely or else you more than likely will not enjoy them. But the trade off for doing it is a Great Catharsis. Had I not been able to do this during "Inglorious Bastards" I never would have felt as good as I did, seeing Adolph Hitler & Paul Joseph Goebbels getting mowed down by Machine Guns in a Movie Theater within a movie theater!!!

I'm gonna be vewy vewy bwave, go waaay out on a wimb here, and say.........it's a diffewent ship. Frankly, if it[i] is[/i] the same ship, the bow will be a bit too neatly tied for me. I'd actually prefer for the [i]exact[/i] origins and purpose of the derelict to remain mysterious.

They probably will if its the same ship, all we'll see is it crashing. Thats not really destroying the mystery.

pjr, The facts are: a) we see the alien ship exploding in the air. b) in Alien, we saw that the ship was damaged by the xenomorph blood. c) in the director´s cut of Aliens, at least, the explorer family enters the alien ship by what seems to be a breach in the hull. IMHO, the derelict is not an all-powerfull piece of hardware. It must be vulnerable to many things, including weathering, volcanism, and other geological process that could change the place so thoroughly as we can see comparing the hipotetical derelict site in Alien and Prometheus...

Some thoughts concerning the urns vs eggs problem: I think that the urns were the very first containers of the very first facehuggers. Once those facehuggers started the process of hatching xenomorphs in other species bodies, the Queens developed, rendering the urns obsolet because they could lay eggs. In other words: the urns were created by the Engineers as the first generation of, well, of anything the Engineers wanted the xenomorphs to be, for example, weapons.