Two Different Space Jockey Vessels…Or The Same One?

my take is that everything in prometheus looks more metal and less organic than in Alien ... urns-egg ...space jockey chair ... ship ... corridors,,,so i dont know if its only a stylsh choice or is part of the plot

They look like different models to me. :) Similar , but still different.

Yeah, similar but different. On purpose or artistic licence?

Simply using all the artwork and modeling which had been done previously for the "Alien" derelict/sets ( there are piles of it in the [i]public[/i] record ) would have been just as easy, if not easier, than making changes to the designs. Such changes wouldn't make sense, if the ship in this movie was intended to represent the same one we saw in "Alien."

similar for sure, but not the same (to me) the only real difference i can see on the latest ship, are those sharp thorn-looking protrusions on the sides and top of this latest vessel other than that, i'd say they are pretty close in comparison

I think the derelict from Alien is the same ship except its been weathered and has been sitting there for a long time with the changes in temp and the hostile environment, maybe the alien that burst out of the Sj has changed it to a small degree making it all moist and bloated

I think they are the same ship just a fresher look or what they consider an up to date look

Also note the back of the of the "Prometheus".. from the explosion shot you can see the back of the ship. Then look at this site and you will see that they are not the same.. http://ioannis.virtualcomposer2000.com/writing/Derelict.html

They look sort of the same, other than the new one is heavy metallic, less organic (as Frantz said) and has a longer...telescopic dong? Neurion you just scratched that spot in my brain I could not reach NOooo! they are different, so is the space jockey control room. I believe I am seeing an alternate Egyptianesque alien universe, DJ Spin in the house! Then silence as the clock strikes midnight! holy crap is it ever quiet....great time to meditate in the safety of our merkaba. Meditation Party in our Merkaba [img]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5IUAnm1te5k/SXsev2j2aWI/AAAAAAAAAMw/kKWva_wQLys/s400/Estrela+Tetraedrica.jpg[/img] I meditate on...if there is such a thing as too much trance. UHummmm especially if you fall asleep listening to it. I used to listen to "stop smoking hypnotism". I used love that stuff as a kid. Great for afternoon naps. Funny thing is I smoke but I don't smoke that often or that much and can go weeks and months with out it. UHUMmmmm ummm [img]http://everydayfunnyfunny.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/mentos-cigerrete.jpg[/img] Mentos for your Merkaba Why do they taste so good? You know if your meditation is working if your pupils are dilated!

Maybe this "new look" Derelict is how Giger or Scott originally intended it to look. Also take into account three things... 1. The average filmgoer (ie not one of us Alien geeks) will not see the "minor" differences, and few it as the same ship. 2. In both Alien and Aliens Special Edition what little we see of the derelict from the outside is obscured and grainy, nowhere near as clear as the image at the top of this thread. 3. Ridley said that he never liked the way it looked on camera, claimed it looked like a minature model. And Cameron had to work with a broken model of the original.

As said at the beginning of this thread, "Ridley’s eye is very discerning and scrutinizing". So I'm pretty sure the differences are not unintentional. But rather than there being 2 derelict crashed ships I suspect something happens to the derelict after the crash which transforms it into biomechanical.

I believe both are the same ship. I agree with Scot in that weathering should change it, adding a layer of dust and changing colors. What bothers me, on the other hand, is that the terrain doesn´t look the same. We don´t know at this moment how much time lapsed between the events in Prometheus and Alien (agreeing that Prometheus actually is a prequel), but I think unlikely that that amount of geological change would let the ship unaltered.

The geological change in the terrain, seems to me could explain how the derelict wound up more horizontal in Alien, whereas in Prometheus it's almost straight up. The ship could be a very strong construction which is why it remains pretty much intact after the explosion, crash, and any subsequent geological upheaval.

For all we know the derelict may let topple over in Prometheus.

Neurion, I am curious and I need someone to explain this to me because I just Do NOT get it. Look at the two pics you posted, Just LOOK AT THEM... I just do NOT get any of this...I do not understand how anyone can look at those two pics and say that's two different ships, I mean I understand how it is totally possible, but what I do not get is How anyone can look at those two pics and think and say to themselves, "yup, that's 2 different ships" I mean for crying out loud they LOOK LIKE THEY are EXACTLY THE SAME !!! EXACT SAME HAMMER ON THE SAME SIDE OF ONE OF THE ARMS EXACT SAME WHATEVER IT IS ON THE OTHER SIDE AND THE OTHER ARM THE TEXTURES IN BOTH PICS ARE EXACTLY THE SAME I MEAN IT IS FROM APPEARANCE THE EXACT SAME SHIP AND I FAIL TO SEE WHERE THIS ANY EVIDENCE WHAT SO EVER THAT THIS IS NOT THE CASE... GUESS I MUST BE DUMB OR SOMETHING 'CAUSE THIS ALL JUST MAKES ZERO SENSE TO ME ...IT IS EXACTLY THE SAME FRIKKING SHIP OR ELSE IT;S SO CLOSE THAT I CANNOT UNDERSTAND FOR THE LIFE OF ME HOW THERE IS EVEN ANY DEBATE ABOUT THIS!!!!

My feelings as well sparky. So what if there are a few small differences, all in all its the same ship. Nit-picking geek alert IMO, no offence. You know like comic book guy in the Simpsons.

@Spartacus, Look at the picture of the ship in the mid air explosion shot. Then look at this link. http://ioannis.virtualcomposer2000.com/writing/Derelict.html Notice the back of the ship... and you will see they are not the same.

@Spartacus You might be completely accurate. The two ships in the two photos may be intended by the filmmakers to be the exact same ship. It’s just that I, and apparently a few others, see differences in the new films design of the craft…and are curious about the possible explanation…if there is one. These are your words… “I mean for crying out loud they LOOK LIKE THEY are EXACTLY THE SAME !!!” “EXACT SAME HAMMER ON THE SAME SIDE OF ONE OF THE ARMS” “EXACT SAME WHATEVER IT IS ON THE OTHER SIDE AND THE OTHER ARM” “THE TEXTURES IN BOTH PICS ARE EXACTLY THE SAME” “I MEAN IT IS FROM APPEARANCE THE EXACT SAME SHIP AND I FAIL TO SEE WHERE THIS ANY EVIDENCE WHAT SO EVER THAT THIS IS NOT THE CASE...” End quote. Ya know…I’ve been watching, reading, and studying ALIEN movie “stuff”…for 32 years…ever since I was an obsessed little “Alieophile”…especially Giger’s work and related effects work. I’ve been an illustrator ever since I could hold a crayon…and similarly Ridley Scott…I too have a very discerning and scrutinizing eye. To me, the differences in the Derelict ship’s model work are fairly subtle, I agree…but there none the less. And if it is there, I thought it might be interesting to read other member’s opinions…including yours…as to what this could mean to the PROMETHEUS storyline. Especially in light of amount and attention to detail that is usually expressed by members of this website. So, sorry if this all seems a bit kooky…but I just can’t get past the fact…that the designs look different TO ME. AND, if Scott and company are intending to pass these two designs off…as the same spacecraft...without further explanation, this particular “Alieophile” will be disappointed. Peace, Neurion

It isn't so much the external appearance, but the "map-room" that seems to indicate it's not the same ship. The differences in that case, are farily obvious. Is it entirely [i]possible[/i] that they're one and the same...?...sure, but why make changes, when replicating the original set perfectly, would have been so simple?

I say why replicate something you've already done when you can improve upon it and do things you couldn't do the first time round.

@Snorklebottom Nit-picking geek alert IMO, no offence. You know like comic book guy in the Simpsons. ~Snorklebottom You’re kidding with this right? NEWS FLASH! This whole flippin’ website is a “NIT-PICKING GEEK ALERT” Duuuuude…are you gonna tell me that what we’re talkin’ about here is any more Geekish than the rest of the shit flyin’ around these forums? No offence, but Gee Whiz…talk about geek discrimination and splitting hairs… Thanks for the laugh Snork. Peace, Neurion

my point exactly... Yes the ship looks a little different that it did originally, so what, its a close enough aproximisation for me, and to the average viewer. Only the most anal of geeks will see it as a problem. Am I wrong.

Could it pass for anyone but obsessive geeks like....er[i].....us[/i]? Of course, but why confuse your most dedicated, obsessive fans with fairly obvious inconsistencies, when the original designs were already so "alien" and didn't really need to be "new and improved"? As I've said before: if the SJ ship in "Prometheus" [i]is[/i] the derelict from "Alien" then Scott has deliberately lied about this movie [i]not[/i] being a direct prequel. No ifs, ands or buts.

Guys, as far as the differences in the derelict's interior go between Prometheus and Alien, I'm really confidant that I can explain is, and I'm sure there are already other huge alien fans around here that know the following fact too:- First, forget for a moment how, when and where the 'xeno' (I'll call them for ease) came from. When a xeno 'infestation' (if you like) decides to 'move in' they go about creating their hive/habit. This is done using the body parts of other sacrificed xeno's together with their own secretions (the one in Alien was starting to do something similar like this with itself in the Narcissus whilest Ripley was hiding the cupboard and putting on her space suit). In some of the scenes in Alien you can see that some of the odd wall structure is made up rows and rows of large cigar-shaped items placed/'glued' next to each other (and some other bits look a little bones, etc) well those parts (I'm fairly certain!) are the top-most part of a xeno's head viewed from underneath (the top/outer surface of the head being the surface attached to the walls). So, the reason for internal differences must therefore simply be due to the fact the derelict simply has yet to be 'infested' and converted to a xeno's habitat and what we're seeing in Prometheus is how the not-yet-derelict (or a.n.other or similar or whatever you decide to go with to avoid argument lol) originally looked as the Space Jockey's shipyard intended lol.

Thats just it, and this isn't the first time I've posted this... IMO Prometheus is a Space Jockey film, NOT an Alien (as in Xenomorph) film. Yes it is set in the same universe and yes, through the Space Jockeys the two franchises are linked, but that is all. Has it not been said that this is NOT an Alien film and that the only link to Alien will be seen in the final 8 minutes, which IMO is the crash of the Derelict. Also I seem to recall that Ridley was never happy with the Derelicts original design, which one could presume is why he might have changed it.

To add my own twist to Herks post... What if the ship is mechanical, but becomes bio-mechanical once a pilot has been fused into the chair. Upon doing so the pilot and ship become one, a symbiotic relationship. the pilot becomes overwhelmed by the ships vast knowledge and the ship extrapolates biological matter from the pilot, evolving the ship. Maybe that is why there is a difference...

@ Snorklebottom, I totally agree with you about Prometheus not being an Alien film, I think it will become its own franchise. I did do a very crude picture to explain this and posted it up on another thread.

dont you also think that the ship of the first image ( the smooth one ) would be a bit ridicolous while flyng ? While the prometheus one is less ..."scary" ...but look much better as a spaceship

Neurion, Thanks for the most patient and detailed reply, it is very appreciated. Yesterday I watched the Directors cut of Alien and the Theatrical release of Aliens and in both films noticed some pretty serious errors that I never would have had it not been for this web site. Sad. I actually noticed some things in Aliens like it not aging very well at all and some things had I noticed back in '86 In would have ruined that film for me and I would have hated it. And in one scene in Aliens there is such a massive error that the film should have ended the moment it occurs in the film, that's how bad an error it is!!! The one I noticed in Alien is just as bad and far more blatant, but it is only an error with consideration to Prometheus, but it has MASSIVE IMPLICATIONS. The SJ platform has NO COMPARTMENTS what so ever in Alien, no sleeping chambers, no secret windows or doors, no switches, no levers, nothing!!! PERIOD !!! Flat as pancake with no writing or anything else on that platform. What there is, The ONLY thing there is...is a BURN on the side of the ships Hull. Meaning there were NO EGGS on that ship in space! Period Yet Again. There were only Xenomorphs whether contained in the bio code of the Ampules on board before it crashed or by themselves hiding and/or scattered below the ship, but the ONLY entrance in there is via the BURN...meaning also that there was at least One Queen on the derelict when it crashed. No Eggs, they had to have been layed there by a Queen, and there is no even debating this, there are no secret chambers on the platform, just the Burn !!! It's the Only entrance way to the underbelly of that ship shown in the film Alien and furthermore the platforms of the supposedly new SJ and the supposedly OLD SJ do not match, AT ALL !!! So, If I make a new post and mention my finding it'll more than likely drive some people out of their minds. My point is, the scrutiny we are holding this film up to is REDICULOUS. AND IT WILL RUIN OUR ABILITY TO ENJOY THE MOVIE IN THE THEATER WHEN IT IS RELEASED!!! i AM COMPLETELY CONVINCED THAT IT IS THE EXACT SAME JOCKEY ROOM THEY ARE DEPICTING THERE SO AM I GOING TO LET IT RUIN THE FILM FOR ME IF THEY ALLOW THIS ERROR TO RUN IN PROMETHEUS...?... IT MIGHT, AND I ONLY NOTICED IT BECAUSE OF THE SCRUTINY EVERYONE IS HOLDING PROMETHEUS UP TO AND THE POSTS ABOUT ALL THE THINGS THAT PEOPLE SAY DO NOT MATCH OR FIT WITH ALIEN PROPERLY !!!

Sparky... From what I recall in Alien Dallas, Lambert and Kane only see 2-3 parts of the derelict, with Kane seeing the egg chamber in the bowels of the ship, a ship that completely dwarfed them in size. Therefore it is highly likely that the rest of the ship which they didn't explore had some sort of access to the egg chamber. Also on film it is never shown that the eggs were originally urns. I can see that you obviously like the idea, but it is not fact it is theory, and will remain so until proven otherwise. Lets try and use provable facts to ascertain what may or may not be in Prometheus. We all have theories, but until Prometheus comes out, that is all they are... just theories.