Question to Mods about Posting Protocols: Existing vs. New

Honestly, I really don't see the point in locking new threads on old topics. So a newbie jumps in only to have his thread locked because he didn't spend hours researching before posting: whatever. The mods act like they're going to run out of space or something; but hey, it's their rules so let's play by 'em. But I agree; it doesn't encourage new people to join unless they have an encyclopedic knowledge of everything that has transpired concerning this movie over the past year or so.

@ Xenotron It is also my feeling in this vein: [quote=Xenotron][i]But I agree; it doesn't encourage new people to join unless they have an encyclopedic knowledge of everything that has transpired concerning this movie over the past year or so.[/i][/quote] that the STRUCTURAL barrier to entry is very high. It is discouraging (especially for people who are motivated to do "original research") in many ways. If the work MUST be relegated to "archived" topics, how will it encourage engagement; on the part of anyone?

Gentlemen, This is not the case (it isn't all that complicated). I have more than the average number of posts, but I have only ever started 3 threads and 2 I started today. That is because if I have something to say, I wait for the relevant post to appear/surface and I simply add a post (response). Starting threads is something, to be quite honest, new users do. Sometimes it is out of pure laziness/immaturity (not using the search feature) and sometimes it is for purposes of vanity (hey look at my thread and how many pages it is - I'm popular!). This site (and the internet in general) is a microcosm of how people act in society at large. Look at this forum site as a sandbox for practicing proper societal-etiquette (i.e. "training"). I commend the TC (Topic Creator) for bringing up this topic. The owner and staff(Mods) still have to obey the same site/forum rules. If nothing else, they must set the example. A month out from the movie's release and closing, this site is going to grow exponentially. We're going to need all the assistance we can get to keep this forum tidy and running efficiently. Everyone can pitch in and help. Avoiding the temptation of starting new threads is one of the biggest ways to assist. If you're just so excited to say something, post it in the most relevant thread that you see that day. As far as "post recognition" goes.....if you feel your post may have been buried, click on your name to access your profile, go to "recent posts", hopefully find the thread in which you posted and add another post adding more information (details, back-up, follow-up ideas). Try to avoid posting "bump" without adding something because self-bumped threads seldom get attention (it is also called thread spamming if you do it in excess). One last hint: Keep your posts short, sweet and to the point. Nobody likes to read long-winded lectures or walls-of-text. Hold a bit back for a retort (debate) like you would in a real conversation. -A

Actually Xenotron I'm probably the guilty one here of locking a lot of threads, because I'm finding that a search can be initiated and usually takes less time than posting a new topic does, and some of the older discussions had really good stuff going on in them. @sukkal, For the last day or so Search has been working for me (though that was rarely the case in the past). I did manage to find THIS TOPIC from over a month ago that is relevant to footage analysis that I've done much more recently than than. So, trying to follow the rules as I understand them, I posted there. My post of May-06-2012 12:54 PM is the one I'm referring to. I find it very unlikely that anyone will ever see this information that I posted because it is buried so far back. Is there any way for me to know (to proactively check) that people have read it and not found it worthy of any commentary (because my posting it has produced no new activity in that topic)? No that was the right thing to do, well done :-D and once you make a post it will be bumped [url=http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/]here[/url] as to weather or not someone else posts in the thread or not is up to the Force (or God for those of you that think I'm a nutjob :-P) So no, good work on searching before posting, I know it's not the best system we have, I'm going to ask for a thread sticky system so we can keep discussions that always get asked about at the top of the pile, and BugHunter is working on tweaking a few things in the coming weeks. Sorry if I've been putting people off, that's not at all my intention, but we have to try and keep open discussions going because some very good points, arguments and discussions have gone on in a lot of the older threads, most of them getting re-threaded not a day or two later......... Also, everything abordoli said :-P

It's not that people here hate double posts, it's that sometimes a person will post something that was talked about mere hours before instead of continuing on that thread and that is just pure laziness and disrespectful to the person who went to all the trouble of starting an original thread. Also, at one point the site was totally flooded with post after post of the same ideas, no one could get a word in edgewise. It was horrible! Me, I took my time and read the old posts for a good week. I don't expect everyone to do that but I felt it was a better way for me to enjoy the site and gather material/information. It made me very confident when i finally did want to post and start threads of my own (I have only started 2 so far) or discuss ideas and post links. I also make sure to use Google if I am looking to see if a subject has been talked about. I just type in whatever the subject I am curious about and finish with Prometheus.com. The search option here is not that great, sadly. (Sorry BugHunter but it's not. :D )

Generally speaking, if a new topic is posted but was discussed a month ago - I won't lock it. Cause a lot of new topics might be similar, but offer something new to discuss. However, topics about the same thing poste literally the same day should get locked and redirected to the original post. After inspection to ensure the locked topic does not contain any "new" content to discuss. I am working on a "Sticky Topic" feature in addition to other hundred features I'm working on. But until then, use the search and read what's new briefly before starting a new thread. The only time we have a lot of locked topics is generally when news is posted and 5 or so members (new or vetran) post a topic discussing the same thing. That's all really. We don't (and shouldn't!) Lock new threads which contain new conent OR content that was discussed over 2 months ago. But again, I stress that this should all improve this week. I've allocated a lot of time to further develop these much needed and helpful features. Hope this helped.

And the man himself speaks! Thanks BugHunter, keep up the fantastic job! AS he said, we do try to see if the same content is in new threads, and lock accordingly. I went on a rampage recently because of the points abordoli brought up, i.e laziness, see how popular I am, etc. etc, and was having people Private Message me saying they had seen the same thing not an hour ago (looks @ Svanya ;-P) But if you're having trouble with anything, give us a yell, we are only too happy to help out :-D

And the search feature is very bare bones right now. Should have filtering enabled for search results this week - allowing for more customized searches.

Just so we're all clear: I'm not sore about anything the mods have done, especially concerning locking threads. I don't blame you guys for anything. It's good to run a tight ship. I was simply empathizing with sukkal. I'm afraid the steep forum entry guidelines comes with the territory concerning a movie whose details are kept secret and which are steadily being revealed. And yes, I agree that's the best course of action concerning rehashed topics: bring something new to the table.

Also, whenever I see a new person post an old topic in the fashion of something like "I think the Space Jockeys are in the movie" I resist the urge to be a total dick and reply: NO? REALLY!? YOU'RE SO SMART! YOU MUST HAVE SEEN THE TRAILERS AND WATCHED THE FEATURES AND BEEN KEEPING UP WITH THE NEWS! I TOTALLY DIDN'T SEE THAT COMING!

I totally agree. And the staff we have do a fantastic job at actually investigating hordes of topics and reading each and every one before locking a thread. It's not like they just randomly click lock - they do their homework! More reading than I could ever do to be honest. I really only lock or delete if the topic violates the basic rules. (No offensive content or spam) As this week progresses you should notice some added features to further help in organizing these forums so that we don't have much of a double post problem. (But again it is a forum and it's bound to happen sometimes. First time forum users are not as aware of such things, so we need to be understanding in that regard.) And Cypher brings up a good point - if you feel a topic should or shouldn't be locked, PM us! We've got at least one staffer online at any time of the day, so message one of us and we'll be quick to help or clarify anything you need!

It is clarifying. Thank you. I still suggest (for your sake @BugHunter, not for mine) that you research how to organize the site's content into topical areas. I have never experienced the phenomenon before (that occurs here) that valuable content "antiquates" so quickly. I do think that that as of 01 June it could be utterly overwhelming (for all involved). I fully understand what @Svanya is saying about the value of going back and reading all of it. But, I feel it is unrealistic to EXPECT that of new members, and if you belittle them by calling them LAZY when they don't (as the mods do here), they will not stay here. The "bumping" technique that @abordoli suggests (the one even by which new content is added) is very frowned upon on other fora in my experience. But, that's probably because it is unnecessary due to the organizational designs there. I am also accustomed to being notified by e-mail of posts to 'dormant' topics in which I've shown interest in the past. It is easy to opt in to these types of notifications on a topic by topic basis. I will send you (@BugHunter) a PM with an example site I encourage you reference.

When it comes down to it, if you are on the site as much as I am and you see the same topic pop up within minutes of another thread discussing the same thing, I'm sorry but that seems pretty lazy to me. And the search isn't perfect but it does work if you change your keywords when you don't find it first try. We're just trying to keep discussions going instead of having to find the last thread we put our really awesome points in and link it to the new thread......

@Cypher, I appreciate the fact that it must be a nightmare to moderate the content here, but I see it (at a structural level) as a chicken and egg problem. As a general rule, MEMBERS (of this type of online community) will self segregate into topical areas (and sub-areas) that are of interest to them. They will become PROS in that domain and STAY there or branch out to other domains [u]once[/u] they have their "sea legs" in that area and the community overall. It is virtually impossible to do that here (structurally). All of the topics pour over the equivalent of Niagara Falls all day long every day. There is nowhere to stand. No little island to swim to, dry off on, and hang out on until you're sure you won't drown (at least for a newbie). The Search can [u]help[/u] find things that are 2 meters under water and 18 days downstream, but it can't guarantee that. It is LIKELY that it is one of the goals of this site to acquire as many members as possible and have the TOPICS and POSTING stats shoot through the roof as soon as possible after 01 June. The statistical trends that MAY happen between 01 and 14 June will likely only persist if new visitors find this site: a) EASY TO USE b) WELCOMING It is [u]generally[/u] welcoming and the warmth shown to some newcomers is staggering to the point of being worthy of international news. However, the usability causes me (and apparently other new members) quite a bit of confusion. This then leads to their being called LAZY (sometimes on the very first visit). There is [u]nothing[/u] welcoming about that. Nothing. The search feature and some of the aspects of the posting policy here feel like "workarounds" as opposed to true "features." I offer these comments as FREE USER FEEDBACK and NOT complaints.

No I understand you @sukkal, it's a good point. We're just making the best we can with what we have to work with, and it's getting better everyday. With suggestions and comments from people regarding features they would like to see, things can only go up from here :-P Free is my favorite word!! :-D

@sukkal, We appreciate the feedback and will be sure to address as many of the concerns you bring up as possible. As a long-time lurker and recent poster, I try to make sure new users are welcomed and not harassed (and also that new members are not coming in here with a negative attitude). All the staff do likewise, but this is a big place as you pointed out with your Niagara Falls analogy. I can barely keep up with all the new posts and I think we're only barely about to shift into the 2nd out of 5 gears (car transmission analogy). You sound like a very smart and well educated community member, sukkal. I am happy that you have joined our community. This community is also YOUR community. Thank you for your input and keep private messaging staff members if you have any questions or concerns. A lot, not all, of what you have brought up has been discussed and add'l coding is forthcoming to address these issues. -A P.S. You are correct that "double-posting" is frowned upon in most forums. I was trying to offer you the only temporary solution that I could think of that would work in THIS forum (until resolutions are implemented). And I know that things can be a bit confusing for it took me two weeks to find the "Add New Topic" button (when I did finally want to start something unique). Things like this (making the site more user-friendly) are being addressed.

[quote=BugHunter][i]And the search feature is very bare bones right now. Should have filtering enabled for search results this week - allowing for more customized searches.[/i][/quote] This will be VERY HELPFUL, I'm sure. But, the fundamental issue of needing to REQUIRE users (especially NEW users) to make use of Search before ENGAGING with the site, will not be fixed by your improving that feature. It will initially likely benefit only seasoned members (who already know their way around). I encourage you to think of it more like a LIBRARY that has a fundamental organization around very familiar, everyday ideas and "virtual spaces" in which to hang out. Children Fiction Non-fiction Periodical Reading room Multi-media Help desk You already a seminal model of that here: Prometheus Topics Alien Topics Community Topics (‹‹‹ You are here.) Media News But, I'm guessing that as of 01 June or so you're going to have another 7,000 folks (ALL NEW) show up and all go to the Prometheus floor. So, what I'm suggesting is that your get busy organizing the Prometheus floor into sections with nice signs posted so that wide-eyed (having pissed their pants) new visitors can go talk about what Prometheus meant to THEM. These are the areas I (personally) would hang out in on that floor: [b]Engineer Technology[/b] ››› Help Desk (Start here, please) ››› Genetic Engineering Skills ››› Tampering with Earth (and Humans) ››› Realization of the Xeno Series of Weapons [b]Engineeer Culture[/b] ››› Help Desk (Start here, please) ››› Language ››› Philosophy ››› Fall of the Civilization (???) ››› Homeworld [b]Filmmaking[/b] ››› Help Desk (Start here, please) ››› Script/Story ››› Earth Mythology in the Backstory ››› Holes ››› "Unicorns" (ref: to Blade Runner-style mysteries) ››› Art Direction and Sets ››› CGI (fame and fails) ››› Animatronics I'm sure you can see where this is going. The "cool kids" would be in some of these more than the "philosophers" and [i]vice versa[/i], but all would be WELCOME and NOT FEEL LOST in ANY of them. Ideally, you'd find 1 or 2 PRIMARY MODS for each area. That allows the mods to focus more on becoming MASTERS of that content (and if relevant the social dynamic of that sub-section (if it has a particular flavor that is important to that area)).

[quote=BugHunter][i]And the search feature is very bare bones right now. Should have filtering enabled for search results this week - allowing for more customized searches.[/i][/quote] This will be VERY HELPFUL, I'm sure. But, the fundamental issue of needing to REQUIRE users (especially NEW users) to make use of Search before ENGAGING with the site, will not be fixed by your improving that feature. It will initially likely benefit only seasoned members (who already know their way around). I encourage you to think of it more like a LIBRARY that has a fundamental organization around very familiar, everyday ideas and "virtual spaces" in which to hang out. Children Fiction Non-fiction Periodicals Reading room Multimedia Help desk You already have a seminal model of that here: Prometheus Topics Alien Topics Community Topics (‹‹‹ You are here.) Media News But, I'm guessing that as of 01 June or so you're going to have another 7,000 folks (ALL NEW) show up and all go to the Prometheus floor. So, what I'm suggesting is that you get busy organizing the Prometheus floor into sections with nice signs posted so that wide-eyed (having pissed their pants) new visitors can go talk about what Prometheus meant to THEM. These are the areas I (personally) would hang out in on that floor: [b]Engineer Technology[/b] ››› Help Desk (Start here, please) ››› Genetic Engineering Skills ››› Tampering with Earth (and Humans) ››› Realization of the Xeno Series of Weapons [b]Engineeer Culture[/b] ››› Help Desk (Start here, please) ››› Language ››› Philosophy ››› Fall of the Civilization (???) ››› Homeworld [b]Filmmaking[/b] ››› Help Desk (Start here, please) ››› Script/Story ›››››› Earth Mythology in the Backstory ›››››› Holes ›››››› "Unicorns" (ref: to Blade Runner-style mysteries) ››› Art Direction and Sets ››› CGI (fame and fails) ››› Animatronics I'm sure you can see where this is going. The "cool kids" would be in some of these more than the "philosophers" and [i]vice versa[/i], but all would be WELCOME and NOT FEEL LOST in ANY of them. Ideally, you'd find 1 or 2 PRIMARY MODS for each area. That allows the mods to focus more on becoming MASTERS of that content (and if relevant the social dynamic of that sub-section (if it has a particular flavor that is important to that area)).

Tell me more, please, about what threads you'd expect to see in the "››› Help Desk (Start here, please)" area of the each floor? Would the first post be a sticky explaining what each of the other areas are about and possibly a welcoming thread?

@abordoli Yes, essentially. And the important thing is that the mods or others who are particularly "personable" who like that area watch that closely and ANSWER QUESTIONS with the mindset of a client services organization. If you walk up to a librarian at a reference desk in a library and say, “I have to learn how Sumerian cuneiform and Egyptian hieroglyphs work(ed) in 2 days and I have no idea where to begin," (a task that a member of the art department on Prometheus easily could have had), the librarian will NOT say "Oh, there are tons of books on that here. You should just go search for something on one of the terminals." S/he will tell you after searching on his or her own workstation that there are these types of materials here on floor 3 and the ones from this area you'll have to read here in the library or make photocopies because they can't be checked out. And, I just saw a documentary on Egyptian hieroglyphs about 3 weeks ago. Let me see if that DVD is downstairs in multimedia... Oh here it is the call number is XYZ..." The Internet (primarily Google) is certainly changing us a human beings in terms of the way we process information. Most of us (now regardless of age) no longer read long, complex treatises on anything. We're very much inclined to search for an answer (just one) and then ACT. But, in an office environment, research shows that people ASK coworkers even before they search independently. I am involved in a very large community where different sub-boards have slightly different "rules of the road" that help set up expectations and get people off to a quick start. It is part of the culture there to go "learn" (educate oneself) as to what's expected in any particular area. One is a "language immersion" environment, so new learners are taught phrases in that area to help them ask questions when they're still very green beginners. (For example, What does _____ mean? = [i]Arát narimya ______?[/i], etc.) Another is an ongoing project that has committees and whatnot, so there is even a formal charter written up in a PDF. If you're not willing to read the PDF, then you're not likely to "have what it takes" to be on the committee. There are always going to be some rather "clueless" individuals who don't immediately follow the "rules," but that cluelessness does not necessarily equal laziness. It may just be a lack of orientation. All universities orient their new students to the new environment. The more this kind of community is like a small university, the more successful it will be (IMO).