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A way out of the 'time connundrum' for SJ in the pursuit of immortality which go

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super-massive black hole

MemberOvomorphMay 19, 20122467 Views38 Replies
A way out of the 'time connundrum' for SJ in the pursuit of immortality which goes horribly wrong... Could the Juggernaiught in fact be existing out side the Space, Time Continuum? Firewalled from time? Maybe the single occupant, if that is all there is, exists as one with the ship and is protected from the ravages of time by some exotic technology that allows this to be achieved. He/She/They co-exist as one with the Juggernaught ship, the lifeforce that coarces through their "veins" - blue or otherwise - coarce THROUGHOUT the entire arteries of the Juggernaught as a whole. A fusion of mind, body and soul as on par and equal to the notion of "space" "time" and "continuum". Three levels of the universe..... In their eyes maybe....? Makes you think at least!. So when the creature that presumably chestburts from within him/her/they? - in some ways breaks or severs the link (the firewall against time) and in effect plunges the ship back into the current reality and events that are playing out upon the world involving the Prometheus crew and whatever it is they discover - in this single stroke, perhaps a million + years of evolution and avoidance to its ravages, time and other causality effects, catch up and indeed accelorate the Space Jockeys biological metabolism to be in tandem with that of the current space, time continuum around him/her/ them. In effect, the ship (Juggernaught) "dies" as the "single pilot" dies (if that is all there is) and this may also have a bearing upon why the ship crash lands or force lands on the planet it is found on in its "Derilict" form in the future. What future though, 33 + years type of future or 33 million + years!!?? Makes you think! This then negates having to have the tried and tested time travel as the central running device to explain the condition the SJ is found in. Instead of the entire ship and that of its contents going through time, they in effect "stand still" relatively speaking and thus time is brought to them or UPON them/the single occupant (SJ) when He/She/They are re-exposed to the effects of time they have been so carful up to now to try and avoid in the pursuit of immortality... ( Think of Indianna Jones and the Last Crusade with Donnavan who "drinketh from the wrong Cup of Christ" and he gets aged prematurely and Forever Young with Mel Gibson. 40 years of the aging process catches up with him in a relatively short time span that makes him old for the new time he now finds himself in and incidentaly, cryogenics is again featured as a crittical theme device to justify it. Alien crew members in hypersleep! Prometheus crew in hypersleep! Could the Space Jockey in getting into that mechanical chair be getting into his/her/their version of a cryochamber but for what by their standards would be a relatively short trip duration to remain in that position if they were intended to jet off to Earth? Could it be a Bio-Chair of some kind that allows its single occupant to "feel" the ship and thus "feel" his way around the ship with his mind and his impulses? It could all be interwoven with bionic sensory perception (future space travel even), cryogenics of the advanced kind and exotic forms of propulsion and space, time manueverability!) Not all merely existing as disparate, seperated forms of thought - each one as isolated as one is from the other but coagulated into one unified theory of "being" almost like Einsteins "Theory of Everything". Yet here, each disciplin serves to compliment the other. The mind/internal systems of the alien ship - its arteries, the body/the physical structure of the ship and its hulls overall constitution, and soul/propulsional properties and the the ships fluid dynamics inter-dimensional, space-time travel - the blood and life force of the living, breathing vessel to it soul occupant as a woman's womb is to a child within it.

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Replies to A way out of the 'time connundrum' for SJ in the pursuit of immortality which go

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allinamberclad
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What, "time conundrum" is it that you're referring to? What, "pursuit of immortality"?
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craigamore
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SUPER-MASSIVE BLACK HOLE...why are you so obsessed with idea time being so tied to this? where do you draw that from?
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super-massive black hole
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I just got through explaining that above! Read what I typed about Donnavan from The Last Crusade and Mel Gibson in Forever Young. My thinking is that maybe the SJ was in some way existing out-side the space time continum and maybe that of his race and had done so for a long time in their pursuit of bio-engineering is their version of immorttality. Unfortunately the alien xeno breatches his bio-suit and thus severs the link he (SJ) and the Juggernaught shared thus causing the raveges of millions of years of time avoidance to all of a sudden catch up with him and shrivelling him to a fossilized corpse. Thats what I am driving at. It may not happen, just thinking thats all. And why shouldn't I? Why are you reluctant to in fact get on board with it instead?
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craigamore
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Because there's no evidence to suggest it at all, in any way, shape or form....there's never been one thing said or brought up or written to give the idea credence.....Please, don't think I meant any offense, I was just curious....
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super-massive black hole
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And likewise there is no evidence to counter-suggest it either! Maybe that is the twist! Maybe, who knows. Just because it may appear unpopular to you and others here or elsewhere does not mean that it may not nessecarily happen or be used. It is worth considering at least. Yes of course no offense from me either.
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Mungo
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OK l'll bite... Time=change. Without time you can't have change. If you are outside of TIME and space (read: our or any other universe) then you can't decide to come back in because that would require a change which requires time which you don't have.
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super-massive black hole
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Providing you enter another parallel universe during the intrim and do not in any way affect this one once you attempt to return to it the concequences of time in an instant begin to catch up with you and therefore, that of the tampering with time in the first place! The Heiseburg Uncertainty Principle: "What ever you intend to affect and interfere with you also change". Jeff Goldbloom - (Ian Malcolm) The Lost World: Jurassic Park . This could also be applied to ones self (i.e.) the Space Jockey.
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Mungo
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So not actually 'firewalled from time' then, but enjoying the space and time of another universe for a bit.
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super-massive black hole
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As long as you exist in another dimension you can see this one even be able to co exist in one or more at the same time even multiples upon the first. As long as you do not violate certain causalities that were intended for the particular destiy upon that particular universe in question (i.e.) ours, you can go back in time and affect change to the past but the price you pay is you are NOW and have always BEEN part of that universes past. The Terminator - (Kyle Reece) The Space Jockey could even happen upon the Derilict which is his destiny to be, the "younger Space Jockey" somehow gets infected by discovering the aged, fossilised version of himself, he gets into his current version of the Derilict flies off, somehow succumbed to the effects of the chestbursting alien and then crashes but maybe has crashed in the past. Theres parodoxes here for my idea in places too I know and it would need to be fleshed out pressumably.
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Mungo
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That sounds like time travel to me dude. Btw have you read the Hyperion novels by Dan Simmons? If not I think you would love them. He has a very creative approach to time, space, and all that bobbins. Ciao
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allinamberclad
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Personally, I just don't know what you expect people to say. You're talking about, "time-conundrums", that [i]you[/i] have created because you are arbitrarily concluding that, "existing outside of Spacetime", is the SJ's means of pursuing bio-engineering a route to immortality? You're entitled to think as you please but, if you then want people to validiate your way out of your own, "time conundrum", you first have to allow that they accept that your conclusion that the SJ's are existing outside of Spacetime as a means to pursue a bio-engineered route to immortality is a solid premise, in the first place - based on what they understand of the themes of the Story. Based on what I understand of the themes of the Story, I don't accept that your premise is solid, in the first place - because I struggle to see how existing "outside of the spacetime continuum" would allow you to pursue any objectives - be they bio-engineering or walking the dogs, that are dependent on issues of Cause and Effect, within the spacetime continuum you've just existed yourself out of? It's ridiculous. Furthermore, personally, I struggle to see how you can reside in Spacetime, [the Universe], while being outside of that Universe - to me, it seems a nonsense: you are either in that "spacetime continuum" and subject to the rules of that Universe, or you are not - but these are side issues: my objection is really that your conclusions would puts this whole story firmly in the camp of Science Fantasy when Ridley Scott has consistently said he is making Science Fiction: I think what you're suggesting would push this into Star Trek territory. Now, you're misinterpreting the uncertainty principle and jumping to invalid conclusions on the back of it, then talking nonsense riddles based on the works of Kyle Reese from the Terminator. Would you please just stop it.
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super-massive black hole
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Time Travel, Dimensional Disposition, Parallel jumping it has no choice but to have time travel interwoven along with it the ship could be from another time as our current position in the universe is in tandem to it yet both are dictated by time. Even the characters within Alien and inded now Prometheus are subjects to the laws of time and relativity as they have to go into hypersleep to get from place to place during travel. How do you think they go about doing that... by hyperspace near the speed of light travel and what effects are they trying to minnimise as much as possible? That of time. Otherwise, why bother with the hypersleep vault? If not to limit the effects of time? Because they are travellling thrugh space are they not? Are they not trying to be immortal in a sense? So, by that level of reasoning, why can it not be true in an advanced state of affairs for that of the Space Jockies?
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Spartacus
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@SUPER-MASSIVE BLACK HOLE...can I have your acid dealers name and number?...LOL...Kidding bro kidding...but you may be going a bit too deep into all of this...just chillax...I luv your spirit and attempt at finding something meaningful and creative...but why not just let it happen for you at this point and just accept whatever Ridley did do for us all. he can be deep and meaningful and creative too and after all this is his puppy, and as for the rules of space time...it seems to me that has very little part of any to play in all of this as most of the meaningful events we have seen have taken place in a setting far removed from having been influenced by this idea in any way.
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super-massive black hole
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I will say whatever I please Allinamberclad! No one forced you to come and comment upon here! You did so on your own volition. And you can also leave by your own volition if you so choose.
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Spartacus
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Super... man chillax it's cool... [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v234/LT.HIGHTIMES/netbroFist.jpg[/img]
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allinamberclad
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@SUPER-MASSIVE BLACK HOLE I beg your pardon?! No-one has argued that hypersleep is not intended to mitigate against Time? That is stating the obvious. But mitigating against Time, is not to suggest that they [i]leave[/i] Spacetime? They slow their own physiological functions, while remaining very much in Space and Time, thanks very much. That has nothing[i] at all[/i] to do with what you suggested which is some riddle about exiting the spacetime continuum and yet still being able to have an Effect upon it?..... I mean:...?... [I beg you to cease, for [i]your[/i] benefit, not mine. Have it your way].
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super-massive black hole
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I seem to remeber a Star Trek Voyager two parter where Chackotay ends up on a vessel that exists outside the space time continuum and a man named Annorax if I remeber correctly he keeps trying to restore the local effects of space and time to that sector of space and Brannon "Temporal Displacement" Bragga wrote it a such. It appears as though some may fear that Ridley Scott and his co writer may actually go partially down this route and perhaps it scares the hell out of you in being dissapointed because you have seen time travel used before. I understand if that is your concerns and would get both sides, the aurguments for and against it being used as maybe a subplot device more than anything.
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super-massive black hole
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lol Spartacus lol!
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super-massive black hole
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I will continue to discuss here Allinamberclad, and you can go type elsewhere if you like. O.k. You cam have it your way also.
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allinamberclad
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Lol.
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super-massive black hole
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Not quite sure what exactly you are laughing at Allinamberclad but never mind! These examples have been seen in Contact where Ellie goes through the wormhole to the outer Vega transiting stysem, monoliths do it in Arthur.C.Clarkes books of the "2001: A Space Odyssey" and onwards, existing in multiple dimensions at the same time and yet you can both touch it yet not touch it. 4, 5, 11 dimensions even hundreds of millions! Who knows! There are many other books and stories that tackle these subject matters as well, too numerous to name at this point in...er, well... time! lol!
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Spartacus
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Alienamberclad has a right too...just sayin'
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super-massive black hole
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Yes o.k. Perhaps. But its behavior which is not what we, certainly I, are here for - perticularly when it seems as though a vindictive thread is what is really at play here. I want to talk to people and in doing so flesh out the possible cans and cannots without the original piont of the discussion, as it was originally intended to be a discussion, being drowned out by silly behavior that has no bearing upon two or more individuals having a fair and amicable discussion. Thats all too!
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Paul426
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Would anybody like a cookie?
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BigDave
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I would not have thought so.... But with Lindelof on board any thing is possible...

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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super-massive black hole
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It is wide open for debateble tangents, granted. Yes, that is an accepted truism that we have all come to expect and even secretively, in the back of our own minds welcome!
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HyperNova
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hmm.. You got the name that I wanted! I wanted to use Super Massive Black Hole! You beat me to it! lol! O well, i'm using HyperNova!
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Juxtapose
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OMG....people are getting so articulate on this thread.!!....this was torture to read thrue....I have no clue what it's even about....i must have dosed of at some point....i got lost after i read 'time connundrum'......I'll say this...."Super massive Black Hole" is a very cool song from Muse !..;)
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Hephaesta
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(blank stare)
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Sundar
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I'm lost also, I wanted to reply but I fell into a wormhole... get it ? Is this thing on...?
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super-massive black hole
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Never mind HyperNova. Fununily enough, I thought about calling myself Hypernova!! How about that for being ironic! What do you think HyperNova? lol!
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Sundar
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@ Super-Massive Black Hole, I actually thought your theory was a band-aid solution to a number of imponderables. Take care.
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Ngranek
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SMBH wrote: What does a ship (Juggernaught - Derilict - Nostromo - Sulaco, etc.) do BUT travel through space and thus time! It is a pre-requisite to the laws of nature, it is a MUST and like it or not you have to obey, there is no way to avoid it due to our current understanding of the principles that is. Sir, a review of your logic indicates that is it indeed without equal, and is itself the foundation of our understanding of that branch of physics, known collectively as mechanics. The Cartesian coordinate system provides for the three well-known dimensions, along with a fourth, time. Considering x,y,z, and t, and realizing that velocity is another way of relating distance over time, we reach the conclusion, in agreement with your indubitable treatise above, that all things move with time. Progressing along, similar to String theory, which may posit that it is possible to travel from one end of the universe to another faster than light, the lesser known Rail theory posits that indeed all things move through the Cartesian coordinates (time included) - on "rails" (Platonic-ally speaking of course). Now, as we know that everything move forward in time, and on rails, the question then becomes, "why cannot one travel back in time?". The reasonable solution to this vexing problem of course, is to reverse the movement, by turning the coordinate system upside down, and going backwards. A problem comes up, in that the rails are in fact old. Some of them, when traversed in the reverse direction become disconnected, and the reverse momentum is led astray. Dr. Osbourne was cognizant of this, in his ode to the problem "tren loco" when he describes the act of diverging from the rails, as if to say he was on an unstable train. Put simply, when traveling back in time, one essentially goes "off the rails", which results in arriving at a destination which is different that which was initially started from, and in fact, in a different universe. In one of the foundational works on the subject, Mr. Zelazny, in his "Chronicles of Amber" describes how this occurs, and the dire consequences, which may ensue. In summary, please refrain from traveling backwards on the "tren loco", as it may result in "deleterious consequences". I hope this helps to clarify why time travel, at least backwards, may not be a desirable plot device in this highly anticipated feature.
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takka_takka_takka
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[img]http://www.skullcandy.com/images/uploads/wordpress/2293.jpg[/img]
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Myrddin365
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lol Takka

Safe? Of course he isn't safe, but he's good!

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Ngranek
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Indeed Takka - your image sums it up best. LOL!
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super-massive black hole
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You sound as if your being a SMART-ASS Ngranek!
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Ngranek
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@SMBH: I agree; though I prefer the term to DUMB-ASS. Its sounds like you have the basics down; things move through space -with (and forward through) time. FTL travel does have implications regarding time, but in general, those are related to forward time, not traveling back through time. While I am certainly no registered physicist having detailed knowledge of all of the exotic theories relating to time travel, my own, albeit very limited, understanding of these things is such that travel backwards in time is not possible (not that real forward time travel is either). I think others have stated far more eloquently than I can, that backwards time travel, can often seem, to those who frequently enjoy sci-fi, to be an easy way out-for the plot writers. Not that it is always bad, but it can seem gimmicky. My comments above did take some creative license, in the spirit of good humor, and I feel bad if you took it as an insult. In the end, as, others have said, we all will not know what will happen in the movie until we see it. For all anyone knows, your ideas & suggestions may just as well happen as anything else. We'll have to wait and see. BTW: Did you see the eclipse? I just saw if from my house-very awesome. I can see why the ancients would have felt them as omens from the gods. Spectacular!

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