Alien: Earth and Alien: Romulus sequel news

My reasonings linking the two timelines and attempting my own explanation.

DoogieTalons

MemberOvomorphJune 06, 20121049 Views18 Replies
OK so here is how I think the two films could link in the "Alien Universe" Let's sort the idiots out first. This film is not set on LV 426 and the Derelict in Alien is not the one you see crashing in Prometheus. OK Imagine this story I think it could hold water. Regarding the Space Jockey in the Film Alien. Hundreds of thousands of years ago a hapless bunch of space jockeys or a single space jockey find the Alien eggs on LV 426 as written in the Alan Dean Foster Novelisation of Alien... one gets infected and managed to send a distress signal before he violently dies in his seat... but basically the derelict didn't crash it was just there investigating as space travellers would. So MAYBE that happened or maybe they already had the egg etc and some queen erupted from the Sj and seeded the eggs under the ship which ever canon works for you but the important point is this is ANCIENT history even for the Sj. This explains why the Nostromo Crew found it fossilised and out grown in its seat and the Xenomorph Alien life form was perhaps closer to it's Original form than we encounter in Prometheus. So then a bunch of Other Sj come across this derelict, as they perfectly understand the warning and perhaps go to find out WTF happened. They then kill the queen which Layed all the eggs so this explains that they have encountered the Xenomorph and as such explains why it's explicitly depicted in the Mural in the future during the Prometheus mission. They seem to understand the powerful and "usefull" nature of the Xenomorph DNA maybe even admire it and it's genetic strength. With that in mind we assume they go on to explore the possibilities of the DNA within the Alien Xenomorph. Why they left the rest eggs etc who knows? but again this is ancient history. They took the queen, or an egg or eggs for research and left. This for now explain and ends the original derelict Sj Canon till the Nostromo Crew encounter it. So the Sj have this genetic material and distil it to create "Eu De Alien" otherwise known as black goo... They do this because they worked out the Alien Xenomorph's DNA could combine with it's host to create the best assumed combination of itself and host for the environment it finds itself in. That's how they seed earth, by consuming the "Eu De Alien" rather than being impregnated by an ofspring of it... the dna itself seemed alive in the water and created something new from the Sj Kamikazee Engineer.... it created humans as we know and love them. This would also fit with why the worms turned into alien worm... they were alive already a basic life form then mutated by the goo from swimming in it and they follow worm like parasitic tendancies, they just create more alien worms not alien human worms... as they are already an evolved form of worm they live to be like themselves unlike the pure "Eu De Alien" which lives to fuse or change what it contacts. This would also fit with why Fifield changes, you see he wasn't directly attacked he fell face down in a bath of "Eu De Alien" with a broken helmet... So if you encounter the "Eu De Alien" GOO you change, maybe into a more violent version of your species. The worms change to Cobra Alien freaks and Fifield goes nuts and tries to kill every one. This all fits quite well with the percieved properties of the black goo. Charlie only has a tiny bit of black goo with his champers so takes longer to change, and before full change impregnates Shaw, making a proto-face hugger "Eu De Alien - Human" hybrid which results in the tentacled body hugger step in the erratic lifecycle of alien, this then goes on to hug a Sj and creates something similar to it's "Original Xenomorph Form" depected in the Mural. But this xenomorph version is not the version we see in Alien this one is a form based more on human embryo based body hugger impregnating a space jockey. To recap. The Xenomorph in Alien lifecycle is... GENESIS UNKNOWN - Bust from SJ, lay eggs, Face hug human, chest bust = ALIEN The Xenomorph in Prometheus is... Goo slowly infects human, makes other human pregnant, body hugs a Sj, Chest busts fully grown from Sj. Fifield Gos feral and nuts cos he encountered a lot of the goo. The worms become cobra aliens because the encounted a lot of the goo. Charlie changes slowly cos he encountered a bit of the goo. The seeder Sj on earth erupts into raw dna in the water because his goo was "just right" and no doubt an intended consequence. So the derelict is still ancient history, the Sj have been messing about with "Eu De Alien" for years since and seeded earth ect.. then simply have an accident by creating something unexpected or unplanned such is the established survival nature of the xenomorph or xenomorph dna. So the Prometheus story line and all associated creatures from the cobra to the body hugger all make a kind of sense in that the Xenomorph DNA and accociated creatures are all hardy, violent and adaptable... "it's adaptability matched only by it's hostility" I think Ash said in Alien. Something the Sj liked about it perhaps.. and why they made the goo in the first place. The Alien storyline it it's own story line and has it's origins in the ancient history of the Sj rather than the later history where they have learned to utilise Alien DNA to make the Goo... The real "Prometheus" is the SJ Race, they got the Xeno DNA they did good with it like created humans ect but eventually it bit them on the ass... or raped their faces... you choose.
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Gavin
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Ridley Scott has already stated that the derelict Engineer craft was akin to a bomber and was transporting the eggs, when the pilot fell foul to its deadly cargo and crashed/landed on LV-426 thousands of years ago. Furthermore, as stated in Aliens, LV-426 has no indigenous life.

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Hadley's Hope
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That has more holes than the film I just watched. And fewer holes than the derelict on LV 426 which has a huge gaping hole on the side, suggesting unplanned high speed impact with the planet. (notably more damage than dropping from a few miles as happened in prometheus by the way).
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DoogieTalons
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@ Snorkel Bottom As with all things there are different canon in the background from the concepts and original screen play to the movie Ridley himself and the Novelisation by Alan Dean foster. I like the idea that the ancient SJ simply transported the eggs as you said Ridley said and came a cropper for it. That's a good storyline in itself. I also like the idea they found the eggs on a once inhabited lv-426 maybe even the last remnants of the xenomorph homeworld bunkered down on a dieing world in hibenation waiting to be found. Either way I think basically the SJ encountered the XENO ages ago, perhaps used them as weapons "as is" as you said but later on decided to create the Goo from the eggs to use as a substance to seed worlds as it was so adaptable, maybe they discovered how adaptable it was after witnessing it ravage entire worlds and disparate species. Akin to how we first used Nuclear energy to kill then to use as energy... They enjoyed killing with the xeno but found a "better" use for it... again we found a better use for Nuclear but still have meltdowns :) However knowing it came from a violent adaptable bastard of a species they created this stuff far from their home planet on LV-233 and again... came a cropper for it. Seems we have stumbled upon thier past mistakes at LV-426 and their future mistakes at LV-223. @Hadleys Hope... Ok so you see holes, what about the general concept that the SJ encountered the xeno before and have since "modified" it as both a weapon and seeder ? It's a fairly good explanation really that links the timelines and the stories. I don't think the film has many holes when taken in context that this is not Alien but is distinctly related but not intrinsically. Doogie
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DoogieTalons
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Where's the huge hole on the derelict ? is the same regular/designed holes we see on the same style of ship in Prometheus ? The derelict on LV-426 may not be crashed.. we have already seen it has VTOL ! Just sayin you see in the original story the eggs are not on the ship they are in a pyramid with pictograms representing the life cycle of the xenomorph.
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Gavin
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As I keep stating the new Xenomorph seen at the end of Prometheus is exactly that, a new, redesigned version of the creature, follow the logic and its plain as day... LV-426, an Engineer craft transporting Xenomorph eggs is forced to land after its lone pilot becomes host to one of its cargo. To ensure this is not repeated the engineers redesign the creature, transporting the source material for the Xenomorph, the Black Liquid, in metallic urns and eliminating the need for a chestburster phase of the creature (as seen at the end of Prometheus). But something went wrong on LV-223 where this project occurred - Hence the vast amounts of urns and all the dead Engineers.

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Gavin
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@ doogietalons - I refer you to my first post in this thread, the eggs were on board the derelict craft, Ridleys words not mine.

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DoogieTalons
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Yes Snorkel I agree with you, Ridleys words. Ridley didn't write the mythology though. In the movie the eggs were on the ship due to the cost of creating the pyramid as told in the concept screenplay etc.. Regardless... I think the reason my concept and explanation holds water is this... The eggs would be useless for seeding planets. I think that the SJ didn't create the Xenomorph they found it, maybe according to the original story they found it on LV-426 or according to Ridley they were simply transporting them and crashed on LV-426 either way they had them before and were using them as weapons... but later thousands of years later... They used alien DNA to create the goo to seed planets as ridley said in an interview relating to the opening scenes. "Movies.com That is our planet, right?" Ridley Scott: No, it doesn’t have to be. That could be anywhere. That could be a planet anywhere. All he’s doing is acting as a gardener in space. And the plant life, in fact, is the disintegration of himself. " This means that the eggs perhaps were the source material of their later discovery that they can uses Xeno dna (Black Goo) as a seed due to it's adaptable behaviour.
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SoftKitty
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@ Snorkelbotton The eggs would indeed be useless for seeding planets, but not for destroying them...... And they didn't find the eggs on LV426 - the ship that crashed there was already carrying the eggs
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Gavin
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In summary you are saying that... Engineers seeded life using Xenomorph DNA. the problem with that theory is that it does not fit what is on screen. How can a black liquid which contains the genetic material of the Xenomorph cause an Engineer, upon consuming it, to disintegrate causing his DNA to seed life on a barren/near barren planet. Nothing about the Xenomorph suggests that would be possible. The black liquid is an evolutionary accelerant/elixir that when consumed by a complex lifeform (Engineer, Human) causes the body to disintegrate and seed, but when consumed by a simple lifeform (LV-223 worms) it advances them in a relatively short period of time. Furthermore these life seeding properties of this liquid have the ability to "re-animate" dead cells (Shaws womb, Fifield). Combine all three properties (seed, accelerant, re-animator) of this substance... Seeding Holloways evolutionary accelrated sperm interacting with Shaws re-animated womb. ...and you have the result a Xenomorph. But because its appearance and birth, and the storage of the material, you have a redesigned, altered version of the creature that already exists and has been left to rot thousands of years ago on LV-426.

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DoogieTalons
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OK so we use just the films and Ridleys ideas as canon, we forget the original idea from the screenplay and novelisation that there were pyramids on LV-426 depicting the lifecycle of the xenomorph and full of eggs. Just going on Ridley's ideas, the eggs were in the ship already. All this shows is the SJ had already/created or encountered xeno in the ancient history of the Sj depicted on LV-223 and were using them as weapons. Prometheus movie tells us this. The Sj species were aware of the xeno form and yet still used the dna-goo as a seed material. My explanation is in good faith reconciling the people that thought that the two films would be linked perhaps much closer than they are. I would stand by my explanation that the Sj species used Xeno dna to create the goo as both weapon and seed, this also fits with Ridley's statements about the Sj being galactic gardeners. As I said I think the two stories are linked but not entwinded. I do not think that the events on LV-223 have anything at all to do causation wise with the both past and subsequent events on LV-426.
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Gavin
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@ softkitty - you did read my first post?!?

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DoogieTalons
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Firstly Snorkel I am enjoying this conversation :) To reconcile your points with mine... [i]"In summary you are saying that... Engineers seeded life using Xenomorph DNA. the problem with that theory is that it does not fit what is on screen. How can a black liquid which contains the genetic material of the Xenomorph cause an Engineer, upon consuming it, to disintegrate causing his DNA to seed life on a barren/near barren planet. Nothing about the Xenomorph suggests that would be possible."[/i] Indeed how can it ? I see where you are coming from but... the xenomorph in the canon of the movies shows it is extraordinarily adaptable in its recombinant qualities with other species, it stands to reason that if a creature is in and of itself adaptable then it's dna must be so. The SJ are scientifically advanced, perhaps the amount the Sj takes to create a seed of himself is "just right" whereas falling flat on your face in the stuff or being impregnated by one of it's creations is not so, and leads to more dire consequences. Just as botulism toxin can kill... but also just paralyse a few muscles in those seeking less wrinkles. [i]"The black liquid is an evolutionary accelerant/elixir that when consumed by a complex lifeform (Engineer, Human) causes the body to disintegrate and seed, but when consumed by a simple lifeform (LV-223 worms) it advances them in a relatively short period of time. Furthermore these life seeding properties of this liquid have the ability to "re-animate" dead cells (Shaws womb, Fifield). Combine all three properties (seed, accelerant, re-animator) of this substance... Seeding Holloways evolutionary accelrated sperm interacting with Shaws re-animated womb. ...and you have the result a Xenomorph. But because its appearance and birth, and the storage of the material, you have a redesigned, altered version of the creature that already exists and has been left to rot thousands of years ago on LV-426."[/i] Can't argue with that sounds sound plausable and very thoughtful, but maybe as I said the genesis of the black liquid is the xeno itself... and it's raison d'etre despite the best efforts of the Sj is to re assert itself. This fits with the Prometheus myth of stealing fire from the gods, it's useful but it's very nature is to destroy. Doogie.
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Gavin
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The Xenomorphs DNA, or genome, is not as adaptable as many presume... The Xenomorph born from what ever host is always a Xenomorph, all that happens is that during gestation within its host a Xenomorph embryo extrapolates genetic traits from the host so that it can survive in its new environment (Alien) while adding to its genome with useful genetic traits (Alien 3). However, when repeatedly exposed to genetic material through subsequent generations the Xenomorph loses elements of its own genome, inheriting those of its host - this explains the less bio-mechanical and more fleshy appearance of the Xenomorphs in Alien 3, Resurrection and AVP. The Xenomorph is a parasite, designed to eradicate an ecosystem, the creature propagating its species at the cost of a planets indigenous lifeforms.

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DoogieTalons
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So do you think the Sj created the Xenomorph, or encountered it and used it. I think the story reflects an encounter and subsequent use/misuse. But equally they could have just too their own genetic engineering so far resulting in the xenomorph. I am left wondering why they depicted a fully formed xenomorph mother/christ style figure in the murals. Doogie.
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Gavin
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The way the Xenomorph propagates, as stated in my previous post, suggests that it was created. Add to this the derelict Engineer craft transporting the eggs and LV-223 showing depictions in murals and the ultimate birth of the Xenomorph mark 2 from the Engineer further suggests that it was the Engineers themselves that created the Xenomorph. The purpose could be either as a tool or as a weapon, but the Engineers are shown in Prometheus of having a long history in genetic manipulation and tampering. Remember that the Xenomorph is considered the "perfect organism", and thus it stands to reason that it is considered by the Engineers as their ultimate creation - perfect in its simplicity. For an analogy, that might help explain it better look up the lore of the video game franchise Starcraft... Xel'naga = Engineers Protoss = Humans Zerg = Xenomorphs

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Hadley's Hope
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Doogie, I'll have to rewatch that, I may be confusing their point of entry with Newt's dad going into the derelict. Still the idea that other Space Jockey's find the derelict, kill the queen (and either remove the body, or leave it somewhere where the Nostromo party wouldn't pass it, and possibly not Newt's Dad either? One could assume he would have been more cautious if he'd seen a giant nasty alien dead on his way to the egg chamber, surely?) And why would they leave the eggs? It seems far more logical that it was a transporter for bioweapons that crashed. Some of the systems still worked, the blue light just above the eggs, may well have been some form of safety control or alarm. Otherwise we have to ask, on an otherwise barren tiny rock, like LV-426, what host gave rise to the Queen who laid the eggs?
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DoogieTalons
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Well in the deleted scenes of Alien the initial idea was that the Alien could form it's vicitms into eggs maybe it secretes something like the black goo.. a genetic catalyst with a specific job to do. This scene was removed as it would negate the need for the Queen as a nemesis to Ripley in the subsequent movies. But this would explain why Ash called it the perfect organism as it requires only victims to propogate. My point was however the Sjs encountered the Xenomorph, be it discovered or created they defiantly had them thousands of years before the events portrayed by Prometheus. I can see the argument from the book that the derelict landed on the planet and encountered the eggs and the argument from Ridley that the Aliens were transporting the eggs as wmd. Indeed if in my hasty thoughts other space jockeys harvested the initial material from the folly of the chap that landed/crashed on lv-426 why would they leave the ship behind etc. I accept there's many holes in my theory but also some sense tying it all together. Doogie :)
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dsjohnson84
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Why is everyone assuming that only ONE ship was sent 2000 years ago to Earth? It's possible that another ship left, with eggs, heading for Earth and then things went crazy on that ship too which forced an emergency landing. We already know that the SJ's have issues containing their own creations, humans + aliens alike... This would explain why the SJ ruins on LV-426 seem "fossilized"

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