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The Secrets of the Black Liquid REVEALED

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Gavin

MemberTrilobiteJun 6, 201238658 Views318 Replies
To understand the Secrets of the the contents of the urns/ampules we first have to separate them into their component parts... [Edited 02-12-2012] [u]The Seed[/u] [img]http://www.prometheus-movie.com/media/prometheusE_screencap7.jpg[/img] A genetically engineered substance created by the Engineers, it is stored within the vials found within the urns/ampules. This thick, viscous black liquid which was consumed by the Sacrificial Engineer (the Seeding) and unwittingly by Holloway, has three underlining properties: 1. When ingested by an organism (Sacrficial Engineer/Hollway) the "Seed" combines with the cells of the organism, causing the host organism to break down at a cellular level - every cell of their body becoming a viral genetic mutagen, capable of being consumed by other organisms. 2. This viral genetic mutagen, when ingested by other organisms, adds/replaces genes of that organism with those of the host whom consumed the "Seed", imprinting the hosts DNA/Genome onto an indigenous ecosystem. This viral genetic mutagen also acts as an evolutionary accelerant, exponentially mutating organisms with the genetic template/traits from the host (LV-223 worms). 3. The evolutionary accelerant aspect of the mutagen also has the side effect of revitalizing dead/dying cells, seeming resulting in re-animation (Shaws womb/Fifield). [u]The Black Liquid[/u] [img]http://www.prometheus-movie.com/media/prometheus_screencap47.jpg[/img] The black slimy liquid stored within the urns/ampules is NOT the same substance that was stored within the vials, and contrary to my original theoryis NOT the genetic material of the Xenomorph. This substance is an inert transmission medium, that when combined with the Seed creates an oil like substance, making weaponized transmission of the Seed more effective. [u]The Urns/Ampules[/u] [img]http://www.prometheus-movie.com/media/prometheusK_screencap31.jpg[/img] The urns/ampules are medium for storing and deploying both the "Seed" and the transmission medium. When triggered/smashed the "Seed" (see above) and the transmission medium mix, creating an oil like substance, that is more viscous than the Seed, and a more effective means of transmission. [u]The Xenomorph[/u] [img]http://www.prometheus-movie.com/media/prometheus_screencap49.jpg[/img] As shown by this mural, the xenomorph is of some importance to the Engineers. Lets look at their known history regards the Xenomorph... - Thousands of years ago, an Engineer craft carrying a cargo of Xenomorph was forced to land on the moon/planetoid LV-426 when its lone pilot unwillingly became host to one of its cargo. It may be that this craft had previosly visited LV-223 and acquired a payload of the urns before deploying them onto a distant planet. Then after acquiring the eggs that would have remained after the infestation befell its fate upon its return either to LV-223 or the Engineers home world/system. - 2000 years ago, a team of Engineers stationed on LV-223 prepared to deploy a cargo of urns/ampules to Earth, when one of them inadvertantly unleashed the contents quarantining the base. As seen in the movie, the urns are the viral deployment method used to instigate a Xenomorph infestation. The urns were designed to ensure safe transport and efficient deployment of the Xenomorph. [u]The Dark Truth - Completely Rethought[/u] Taking what we have learnt about the urns/ampules, their contents and the Engineers established history with the xenomorph, and combining that with what we have seen in the Prometheus and Alien movies, leads us towards a dark, disturbing truth... [b]Phase 1 - The Seeding[/b] [img]http://www.prometheus-movie.com/media/sacrificial_engineer_prometheus2.jpg[/img] [b]The Engineers visit primordial planets supporting basic, simple life, whereupon a lone "Sacrificial Engineer" ingests the "Seed", sacrificed his life and seeding the planet with the seed and his DNA, resulting in an ecosystem entirely dominated by the Xenomorph (This is what we see at the start of the film).[/b] [b]Phase 2 - The Rebirth[/b] [b]An ecosystem dominated by the Xenomorph results in the exhausting of viable hosts. To combat this the Xenomorph at a genetic level introduced Y chromosome into its genome, giving rise to infertile males (smooth carapaced warriors), and then fertile males (Kings).[/b] [b]Upon consummating with Kings, Queens become capable of producing a second type of egg, incubating a sub-species of hosts, pale skinned humanoids - Engineers.[/b] [b]Phase 3 - The Harvest[/b] [img]http://www.prometheus-movie.com/media/david_earth.jpg[/img] [b]Systematically a percentage of these Engineers are drafted into Engineer society. Seeking a more efficient means of reproducing the Engineers weaponize the Seed, for deployment upon worlds inhabited by Engineer children, sired before the weaponization of the Seed (the method of this siring not yet seen).[/b] [b]The Xenomorph DNA, hidden with "human DNA" asserts itself and spreads across the sired planets, resulting in a Xenomorph dominated ecosystem. Once all viable hosts are exhausted, the King Xenomorph is sired and Engineers are born.[/b] [b]Phase 3 - Collection[/b] [img]http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac89/snorkelbottom/AlienInfestedWorld.jpg[/img] [b]The Engineers collect a percentage of Xenomorph (eggs) before transporting them to a location whereby they can be used to produce more Seed (also as yet unseen).[/b] [u]Why Create Only To Destroy[/u] [b]Here's a summary of what we know so far...[/b] [b][/b] [b]- A Sacrificial Engineer sacrifices his life, seeding life upon a primordial world, using his own genetic material. To date we the fans have assumed this action, through natural selection and engineering, resulted in billions of clones/children of the Engineer to evolve, in his image - us.[/b] [b]But The consumption of the Seed by Holloway results in the creation of a Xenomorph in the form of the Deacon, therefore we must assume our initial belief to be false - meaning that the Sacrificial Engineer was not siring a planet of life that would evolve into human form, but instead cultivating a world that would be dominated by the Xenomorph.[/b] [b]- The Urns show that the urns are a means to deploy the Xenomorph amongst human races also sired by Engineers, as shown by the DNA match in the movie.[/b] [b]- The Xenomorph extrapolates genetic material from its hosts, propagating its own kind.[/b] [b]- Once all hosts are exhausted, the Xenomorphs would need a means to continue their existence, otherwise they would die, and only their eggs would remain.[/b] [b]- The Engineers return to gather the eggs.[/b] [b][/b] [b]WHY? Why would the Engineers seed a planet to create millions/billions of clones/children in their image and using their own DNA only to later wipe them out using the Xenomorph? Well I believe I may have the answer...[/b] [b][/b] [b]The Xenomorph, as we know it, is capable of eradicating an entire ecosystem of its indigenous population by using said life forms as hosts to propagate its own species. When gestating inside a host, Xenomorph embryos extrapolate genetic material and traits from their host, to add to their own genome and to adapt to the environment and ecosystem which they have been deployed into. It is this trait of the Xenomorph I believe that holds the key...[/b] [u]Genetic Material[/u] [img]http://www.prometheus-movie.com/media/prometheusO_screencap14.jpg[/img] [b]We, the human race have evolved from and continue to evolve from the Engineers genetic material. Our genetic material, our genome is almost identical to that of the Engineers. This same genetic material is extrapolated by the Xenomorph, a deadly genetic and bio-mechanical creation held in some regard by the Engineers, themselves expertics in genetic and bio-mechanical engineering.[/b] [b][/b] [b][i]To the Engineers the human race are "Maize". Once we have grown to required amount in number and in the required way, we are harvested, and the Xenomorph is the "Harvester".[/i][/b] [b][/b] [b]Our genes/DNA/Genome/genetic material is the "Maize", that is what the Engineers want/need, and the Xenomorph is the means by which to harvest our genetic material. But why?[/b]

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CULT
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You see I think the urb needs to be smashed before the trigger is released, and the condensation is a 2000 +- unforeseen accident releasing the accelerant which results in the bio-mutation.. But in all honesty we may have the Schrödinger's Cat effect going inherently going on as well.. Is the goo seeded or unseeded? IMHO
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Gavin
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So if the urns need to be smashed to be triggered then please explain why they are triggered when the expedition team enter the chamber. Instead of condensation the effect that caused the urns to trigger would be a change in pressure as shown when David opened the door. Think of the urns as sensitive to certain effects, any of which will cause the contents of the vials to mix with the liquid causing the urns to leak the combined liquid, capable of spreading the Xenomorph in a viral fashion, which would be more effective than an egg.

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CULT
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But the intent is also control. The bio weapon is dropped like a bomb to be most effective. Otherwise it would be too unstable to keep around. The change in pressure releases the goo through condensation like you mentioned, releases the goo (in my mind unseeded and in yours seeded just as Schrödinger's cat suggests). The effeciency factor is only relivant to the factor of time. Eggs and facehuggers lay dormant for perhaps millions of years while a viral mutagin is more vulnerable to mutation once exposed for such durations. And it appears the Engineers would have to measure time and effect on such a scale...But all this is just conjecture. Right?! Right!? Right!
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Gavin
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Eggs incubated Facehuggers lasted for thousands, not millions of years because they protected in stasis by the layer of blue laser-mist that covered them. The urns stored in the right conditions would be stored indefinately, only some of them were inadvertantly triggered 2000 years ago resulting in deaths of all but one of the Engineers stationed on the moon. As a result the room was quaratined, and the remaining unopened urns kept in stasis (cold from lack of atmosphere) until David opened the door. And to be at its most effective the mixed substance is probably released in the atmosphere so that it can spread unchecked. Whereas the issue of degradation of the mixed substance is mute, because of the fact that we evolved to mirror the Engineers despite billions/millions of years of evolution. Remember the Engineers are experts at genetic and bio-mechanical engineering.

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Tha_Pig
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The urns could also been sealed by some kind of electromagnetic/password lock which David -being a robot and having knowledge of the alien language- could easily decode when he placed his hand on one.
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wajaja78
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Nice post and theory, I do think indeed that those military engineers (I believe there are at least two opposing factions) have the ultimate goal of collecting xenomorphs and their eggs. It would seem to fit. Here are my thoughts: 1- the "military" engineers worship the xenomorphs as can be seen from the mural in the urn room. The fact that there is a carving / representation of the alien life cycle does imply so sort of religious / admiration link that those engineers have for the xenomorph. The question is in this case why would they admire something that they are creating themselves by infecting / contaminating an existing environment? My thoughts are that the military engineers are told to worship the xenomorphs by other beings, who may well be their own creators, perhaps a superior / different faction of engineers (women?) The xenomorph may therefore serve a purpose that we do not know yet. From the current Alien films, the xenomorph do not seem to be a superior form of intelligence, merely a form of insect / bioweapon used for colonisation. In your post, you mention that the difference between the ships on LV-426 and LV-223 would be that the urn is a safest method of transporting the xenomorphs. I just think that the ship on LV-426 was on a return mission after collecting the eggs from a planet filled with xenomorphs, while the one on LV-223 was going to leave in order to create the xenomorphs somewhere. It does however seem strange that the pilot on LV 426 would be in the middle of where the eggs are, and that those eggs were not stocked in a separate cargo room. (although this may well be because back then in the 70's, they had no idea that the plot was going to evolve this far :) 2 - I do believe that the seeding engineers and the military engineers belong to different factions. The seeders create life and the military engineers follow their tracks to destroy life that has been created by using the xenomorph. Those factions may be opposite and be fighting throughout the universe, the military engineers may have been running from the seeding engineers when they tried to escape in the urn room. The piled bodies may have been slained by the seeding engineers. However this summarizes it as there being "good" and "bad" engineers, the creators and the destroyers, which may well be too simplistic. 3 - Those military engineers on the base may have been slained by a superior being (women?) in case seeding engineers and military engineers belong to the same faction as you are suggesting. This however would not explain the fact as to why the military base has not been completely destroyed by whatever attacked / piled up the bodies of the military engineers. It would seem strange that an enemy would leave its rival wounded without annihilating them completely, unless that rival faction was banned / afraid from entering the urn / xenomorph room for religious purposes. If they were not running from an intelligent being, maybe they were running from xenomorphs as the piled bodies seem to suggest, but that would mean that all traces from those unleashed xenomorphs have been removed in the 2,000 years that followed since they are not seen in the film. It still does not explain why the urn room and the base has been left intact if the xenomorphs have been picked up / retrieved by another faction. 4 - As to why the engineers would need our human DNA, I do believe it is because they are themselves unable to reproduce anymore, and want to be able to modify themselves with our DNA in order to achieve that again. It may well be because the superior being / opposite faction has denied them that right. Maybe after all, it is about women withholding sex, that usually pisses a lot of people off :) However, I would think that if women engineer were superior, the surviving engineer would have been intrigued by Shaw being a woman (although she has short hair). The fact he has not been intrigued may say that they are used to women. It seems however that the only reproduction cycle and life creation cycle of the engineers is through contamination and destruction, that they would have no possibility of creating life "naturally".
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Gavin
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@wajaja78... I'm currently collating all the evidence we have about the Engineers and will be posting a new thread in the near future about them and my findings. I will of course link to that thread and possible edit the OP of this thread. Keep your eyes peeled.

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neo_star
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This thread is getting interesting with convincing theories. I personally think that earth is a perti dish for the Engineers to experiment with the genetic material.
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ParkerN
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I find this to be partially right. But there's to many gaps with it, there's more to the engineers goals then to just harvest earth, there's a bigger meaning to it then just that. What about the elder engineers? Or the emissary engineer that ridley scott mentioned, I would agree on all the parts of the ampoules, and what there capable of, but there is a bigger meaning to why they created us and why they wanted to destroy us..
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Gavin
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I partially agree, although my conclusion does make sense it does feel somewhat "Meh", like its missing something more important, bigger reaching and I suspect the clues lie with the Engineers themselves, of which I am currently collating all the info we have on them. Once I have solved the puzzle I will post a new thread, and link to it in this thread, most likely editing some of this thread with the new info.

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TKfanboy421
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[quote][/quote]"Because of what we know about the Engineers it may be that they are unable to reproduce/are sterile (possibly through meddling with their own genome), and have resorted to cloning themselves to continue as a species. But cloning does not add to their gene pool, and thus would halt their evolution." --(I made a similar post several months ago, in regards to engineers being unable to reproduce due to engineering the female reproductive system out of thier own genome and needing it from us. Too funny.)
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StayPuft
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Something UNEXPECTED is revealed by the urn that David takes back to the ship. Let me set the stage with some definitions. [u]Deconstructor[/u] - The mutagen used in the opening scene is not the same. It was destructive. I'll call this the deconstructor. [img]http://www.prometheus-movie.com/media/engineer_sacrificing.jpg[/img] [u]Mutagen[/u] - The other liquid merely changes the host into something else. It doesn't disintegrate the host's biological material. It does the opposite of kill you. It changes you into a different life form. [img]http://www.prometheus-movie.com/media/prometheusK_screencap41.jpg[/img] [u]Exploder[/u] - A third type kills you and makes your head or some other body part explode. This is what the pile of Engineers, including the helmeted skull, were infected with. [img]http://www.prometheus-movie.com/media/concept036.jpg[/img] David's urn didn't ooze because David didn't have the required biological makeup necessary to trigger it. Nor did the urns spill when the Engineers disturbed the atmosphere. [b]Conclusion[/b]: Only them there humans could make the jars of black stuff open, because the stuff was made especially for them. And what is the black stuff in the jars? It changes you. It doesn't disintegrate you and it doesn't make your head explode. It's the [u]mutagen[/u] made for mankind. The other types of biogen have a purpose too, but I'll get to that in a second. I have a question for you. Does the mutagen change humans into this? [img]http://www.prometheus-movie.com/media/concept006.jpg[/img] [b]or this?[/b] [img]http://www.prometheus-movie.com/media/concept001.jpg[/img] One of these things is not like the other... One is grand and ornate, held in high esteem with outsretched arms like a being that's large and in-charge. The other is hobbled and withered while being dominated by the hand of an Engineer. So which one do you think humans change into?
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Gavin
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Nice theory stay puft, but unfortunately there are some issues there... [b]Deconstructor[/b] Yes this substance did cause the Sacrificial Engineer to be deconstructed, but his DNA was then reconstructed into a mutagen that shaped and sped up the evolution of life on the planet in his image. - [i]In order to create, one must first destroy[/i] - [b]Mutagen[/b] The substance affecting Holloway is the same substance ingested by the Sacrificial Engineer, just in a smaller quantity, therefore the effects although the same take longer to appear with Holloway. And it is this process that is reproduced within the Urns, mixing the "Seed" with the genetic material (Black Liquid) to infect exposed organisms and create the Xenomorph. people are not turned into a Xenomorph, the Xenomorph mutagen (Seed + Xenomorph Genetic Material) causes the creature to be developed by infection and sexual transmission - like a disease. Also the Engineers DID trigger the urns... 2000 years ago (as evidenced by the Engineer decapitated by the door to the urn chamber). The result of which caused a Xenomorph infestation that killed all but one Engineer.

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shambs
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@Snorkelbottom, Quote: Also the Engineers DID trigger the urns...2000 years ago (as evidenced by the Engineer decapitated by the door to the urn chamber). The result of Which Caused a Xenomorph infestation That Killed All but one Engineer. But if the mechanism of the biological weapon is something like a sexual disease then how could generate an Xenomorph infestation 2000 years ago? I agree with with the point of the virus, but I'm not sure that the engineers were killed by Xenomorphs. @StayPuft for me this picture [img]http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh517/starparadise86/concept001.jpg[/img] can be: - A second variant of the weapon product of the mutation, as Fifield (or what he may become) but not the pure Xenomorph, just an hybrid. [img]http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh517/starparadise86/Image15.jpg[/img] [img]http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh517/starparadise86/ac_02.jpg[/img] - A representation of a primitive Xenomorph or the first prototype (million years ago maybe) and the painting is just a tribute to the arcade beginning of this old project. - Only symbolizes that the Xenomorphs are the supreme and favorite tool /weapon of the Engineers and they were designed specifically for use in humans.
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LV420
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What would happen if David had spiked Shaw's drink with the black liquid?
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StayPuft
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@Shambhala, I love it! Look at the similarities between the mural and your first pic. You are definitely on to something. [list] - The arms are long and slender in both. - In your pic the head is starting to elongate like the mural. - The legs are also longer and slender. [/list] Do you have any pics that show the claws? @SB, Your theory means Fifield ingested the perfect dose to keep him from disintegrating but enough to make him start mutating into the completely different creature in Shambhala's pic. Looks like about 122.5cc's I'd say. But if you only sip 20cc's, you completely disintegrate in just a few short minutes. Doesn't it make sense that the Engineers would have many different kinds of recipes that they use to make genetic changes to humans throughout history. We already know from the notes that the Engineers leave urns and other artifacts. Why bring the same stuff every time? I'm also having a hard time envisioning a pile of diseased bodies as a xenomorph infestation when history shows different clues.
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shambs
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[img]http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh517/starparadise86/mutantfifield.png[/img] [img]http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh517/starparadise86/855e9c04_C0Plt.gif[/img]
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StayPuft
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@Shambhala, That is fantastic. Look at that monster claw. Really, really nice job.
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N'hoj
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I believe it's all much simpler, as simple as natural selection and evolution. The engineers kick started human's yes, they have a history with the Xenomorph, obvious DNA matching possibly the Engineers are evolved from a xenomorph 'ancestor'. The engineers reaction to Shaw, just wasn't interested in a sub lifeform trying to communicate with him. Who's higher on the food chain is what I think, simple evolution with earth being an experiment that the engineers are concered over for whatever reason. Then amongst all, the Xenomorph is thrown into the danger mix just to hat things up.
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shambs
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If we are to take all the Alien movies as canon then the Xenos were mutating and adapting to the environment with the passage of time... But what is the canon after all? I ask this because many fans have different notions about the canon. On the other hand we must not discard the possibility that the urns are the updated version of the Eggs.
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Liam_Kolt
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a couple things to consider...logic demands we take into account other evidence...short and sweet fasion... -we may be the engineers...the engineers may be our doing - think of stonehenge, pyramids, etc. *or, they (we) were in colusion. (do we really know "our" own history...we believ because we read in books??? Cave paintings could have been "rebels" seeking to leave traces of the "truth. -"our" dinosuars could have been "variations" of the so called xenomorph. -Engineers could be "drones"...or slaves...given the technology and forced to do the dirty work. Liam
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Liam_Kolt
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I thought about the "engineer's" interest in Shaw, and thought it was because she was a woman - not having seen one, but he palm striked the other woman square...so???
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Gavin
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@ Staypuft - what Fifield fell into would not have disintegrated him - he fell into the two substances combined. let me break it down... Seed + Engineer = Viral Genetic Mutagen 1 that imprints Engineer DNA onto infected organisms. Seed + Xeno DNA = Viral genetic Mutagen 2 that imprints Xenomorph DNA onto infected organisms. The engineers used the substance the used to seed life and turned it into a weapon, By adding Xenomorph genetic material - once triggered/smashed the two substances combine, as in the chamber turning the worms into Xenoworms and Fifield into XenoFifield.

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kablitzer
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Dose anyone think Crucible would be a good name for ampules/urns???
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brego
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Well put together Snorkel Bottom. I however have another theory. I don’t think the vials/goo or anything else are bio weapons. I think this DNA mutating substance has extremely unpredictable effects when used or taken incorrectly. We have seen aspects of its randomness in the various Alien and dare I say AVP films. I believe there is a separate species, who use the Engineers as a conduit to seed life around the Galaxy. The Engineers are either an enslaved species or indeed just worship the higher beings and give themselves up for sacrifice to seed life on baron planets for these beings/Gods. I reckon the ship we see in the prologue of Prometheus belongs to these beings. Somehow, perhaps 2000 years ago there was some kind of revolution and the Engineers rebelled, we see this on the image playback in Prometheus. They are punished and ultimately destroyed by their angry Gods. However one of the Engineers escapes and crash lands on LV426 and having been infected himself, bursts forth a Xeno which makes its way down into the hold of the ship, grows into an egg layer, lays eggs and either disappears or dies. The rest we know from Alien. I see no evidence that the Engineers intend to harm humanity. We have no idea why the Engineer acted the way he did when awoken from hyposleep. I think if a human were to be awoken unexpectedly by an Alien race they would act as rashly, perhaps even more so. The surviving engineer would of course have known that the humans and David had been medalling with things that are beyond humanity and perhaps wanted to ensure that the technology would not be allowed off planet. This would seem the prudent thing to do, for he may infact have been trying to save the Earth, knowing that its destruction would be a certainty should this powererful organism make it back. I suspect that it was David who programmed the auto pilot on the Engineers ship to fly to Earth, he, I believe was meddling all the way, just as Ashh and possibly Bishop did, many years later. Just my thought on things to come.
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Aramaki
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Could it be that the urns do not represent a new way for the engineers to transport the huggers but that it is how they always meant to do it? They drop the urns on a planet, xenomorphs propagate, then they come in and collect all the eggs they lay, transporting them to another location. The ship we saw on LV426 was a ship transporting these eggs from one already infested planet (had urns dropped on it) to another planet?
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Gavin
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@ Aramaki, A very good, valid and logical point that has been playing on my mind somewhat... It could be that LV-223 is one of the installations that was a temple to welcome children races (explains the pictograms, frequent visits to Earth, breathable air in the temple and the Sacrificial Engineers "Big Head" icon), were the Seed was originally stored. But at some undisclosed point of time the Engineers altered their plans (non-compliance from a children race, maybe) and used installations such as LV-223 to develop, produce and deploy the Xenomorph using "Juggernauts", which would visit the worlds inhabited by the children races and deploy the urns. Once the "Harvesting" was complete the "Juggernaut" returned, gathering the eggs to extrapolate the genetic material stored with embryo's. Therefore, the derelict craft on LV-426 could be one of those aforementioned "Juggernaut's" that was on a benign mission (as Ridley has always stated) to return said extrapolated human genetic material (from another seeded world of course) back to the Engineers home world/system. This could also explain the signal picked up by the Nostromo - a warning to other races and a beacon for the Engineers. furthermore this would fit the new statement claiming the Deacon to be the birth, the first stage of the xenomorph - it being the first generation of the creature, while at the same time NOT being the first ever Xenomorph. Thank you Aramaki, I will clarify this and eventually add it to the OP.

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Alienfan101
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Great post by the OP. I have always been a huge fan of the alien movies and really like how this movie really had little to do with xenos other than it was an element to the story. I agree with Snorkel on his theory. I think the black goo reacts with whatever dna or biological material it is introduced too. The room with the xeno mural had black goo with xeno material, hence the worms with acid blood etc. Likewise at the first it is used with the engineer to use his DNA to plant humans on earth. It also seems the goo causes rapid evolution and/or growth, atleast at first, with whatever it interacts with. I dont think the answer about the Engineer's actions, or why they possibly wanted to destroy us humans on earth can be answered from this movie, there is too much not explained. However, here is my go at it: It seems as if Scott took the epic of Gilgamesh, and the story of Prometheus and somewhat combined them. Gilgamesh seeks the gods so that he might obtain immortality, but was not granted it, and of course you have Prometheus, which could be the engineer who deposits his DNA on earth, thus giving us our proverbial "fire" making us equal to the gods, thus their desire to also destroy us. FWIW Gilgamesh is discussed quite a bit by Stitchen in his books regarding ancient alien contact as well. Anyway, I think it is clear, atleast to me, that Scott intended to show that the Engineers, or gods, are just like us, and further that they intended to destroy us. That we are sort of like their science project, or maybe they have a religious cult thing with xenos being they are such a prime example of perfect evolution etc... and thus is a circle of life, type religious thing, or hell, maybe they have a game show "Killing Xenos for dollars" and need them for entertainment.. who knows, but I think the point being that their intention was to plant DNA on earth, they helped us flourish, hence the cave paintings, and then intended to use xenos on earth. Why show us where their installation is? IF we are cave people, we are no danger, nothing wrong with telling us. Besides, they plan on wiping us out long before we could ever leave our planet. Here is why I say that: 1. David asks Holloway why humans created them, he replies in a not nice way, because we can. David then says how said Holloway would be if that were the answer his makers gave him. 2. David also states at one point to create life you must first destroy life (or something like that). 3. Weyland even seems to love pointing out that David has no soul, as if another cruel statement from his creator about him, also implying he is less valuable than a human because humans created him. 4. I think David also knew this about the xenos and engineers, he even tells Vickers I think, when taking Weyland to meet the enginner that he is going to die (I think, only saw the movie once). 5. Holloway comments at one point that this place isn't what they thought it would be. 6. The room with the urns had a mural of a xeno, AND an alter. Also, the xeno has his arms outstretched sort of like a religious mural. looks like the xenos were a pretty big deal to the engineers. 7. Besides, the engineers were obviously big into bio-engineering. Ever meet the guy that loves their job, obsesses about it. Well that is the engineers, so of course they are all gaga over these xenos.. Which leads me to the bigger sort of irony, we meet our makers, and are terribly disappointed to realize we have no value to them, they will destroy us because they can, and could care less. Thus, Shaw is wanting to ask the question why. Scott even teases us with it when they wake up the Engineer. Shaw begs to get the answer and instead David asks for immortality. The engineer, waking up... seeing humans talking to him in possibly his own language, and staring at him, and obviously on this other planet... has to think we really f***** up.. time to plant the xenos and do it yesterday... hence his hurry to get to Earth. Sort of like, not only were we supposed to do it a long time ago, but now things have really gotten out of hand with this human thing. I suspect when Shaw reaches the homeworld of wherever she is going that it will already be destroyed... abandoned etc... I could be wrong.. Sorry that was long... it was just my 2 cents.. If others have posted a similar thing sorry for the repeat. I am sure the next movie will have rebels, a death star... or something else to really blow my theory out of the water...
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Goober
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Will someone tell me why a master race like we are led to believe the engineers are, can easily be best by their on creation? Makes no sense...
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...this is a massive thread Snorkelbottom congrats, and for such a engaging topic too. We thought out, and organized too. This is a placeholder until I can fully reply to this thread.
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Mopar McNeer
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A two things to chew on: 1. RS refers to the Engineers as Dark Angels, not gods. This leads me to think that the Engineers are doing the bidding of someone else. Much like angels, they have a specific mission or objective to accomplish or a purpose. Being they are called dark angels, I also think that "destroy to create" is very fitting for what their purpose is. 2. Just because the Engineers have a Xeno mural, why does everyone seem to think that they worship them? It could just be a warning picture or just art for that matter. I figured that the Xeno is a weapon, a curiosity, or just another possible creation "because they could" - but the idea that they are used as a weapon to wipe out a planet/civilization makes the most sense to me as they too are a creature with a specific purpose. I have a few more thoughts, but am a bit short on time. I'll have to chime back in later.
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Mopar McNeer
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One other thought. So in the greek mythology, Prometheus was the creater of mankind and had taught his creations many skills that made them powerful, and the god Zeus was not happy with Prometheus for this. During a dispute, Prometheus tricked Zeus, and later Zeus with held fire from men because of this. Prometheus snuck up to mt Olympus and stole some fire and gave it to mankind. Zeus then tried to have Prometheus' brother marry Pandora, to which he refused. Zeus mad that his plan didn't work had Prometheus chained to a pillar where his liver was eaten over and over. In an effort to save his Prometheus, his brother did marry Pandora. Pandora then proceeded to open up the box that Prometheus had sealed that contained all the evils that might affect mankind. See this link for a quick summary: http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/faculty/giftfire/prometheus.html The way I look at it, maybe the Engineers on LV-223 had at some point given mankind something that they should not have, so their society or their gods cast them out (to LV-223), which may be why they were all hiding/stuck on LV-223. Then one among them (Pandora) unleashes the goo and it destroys them. Or maybe the humans analogious to Pandora, and we unleashed the "evil". I haven't had a lot of time to flesh out the corrolations between the Greek Myth and the Movie, but I'm sure there is more too it, otherwise why would they call the movie Prometheus, right? Maybe some else can chime in on this and build a better hypothosis from the myth to the movie.
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StayPuft
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I could be wrong but I think most Alien fans have noticed that the monster you're impregnated with takes on some of your DNA. For instance, the alien that burst out of the Rottweiler trotted around on all fours. Obviously the mutagen is going to do the same thing. Every black goo in movie history was evil. Black goo in Prometheus is evil. So, everything that black goo creates in Prometheus is evil too?
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MimeFromHell
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Long-time lurker, first-time post. Slightly OT, but perhaps relevant nonetheless...on the Weyland Industries site under 'Investor Information' module 1.7 gives an [i]Earth Resource Breakdown[/i]. The resource with the least amount of reserve is 'Eitr'. It's not a real element but per Wikipedia a mythical one (quote): "[i]This liquid substance is the origin of all living things, the first giant Ymir was conceived from eitr. The substance is supposed to be very poisonous and is also produced by Jörmungandr (the Midgard serpent) and other serpents.[/i]" For what the quick read is worth, the link is [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eitr]here[/url]. Something else kind of coincidental; the abbreviation of 'Eitr' is noted 'Et' like...'extraterrestrial'.
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Aramaki
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@Snorkelbottom Thx for the feedback. The thought of the urns being a new transportation system, I don't think is ever brought up in the movie. I would guess this theory was put forward by fans. Interesting thought about how the eggs are collected for the purpose of having their genetic material extracted. My first thought was using them to attach another planet. But the former might make more sense. Why have two delivery systems? The eggs being used in labs as medical science, not as a weapon, could be logical. And would play into the clone/sterile theory. I think it's entirely possible that the engineers are themselves worker-bees for a yet unseen alien species. (Given that they all look the same. And are all 'male'). Unfortunately we won't know till Scott makes another film. Which will be a ways off. *sad face*
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Xenomorph5000
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Heres my take on the subject. In history whenever a culture has created something possibly dangerous they have always created a cure/antidote to it simultaneously. This is true for both lab experiments and weapons. This is to protect the creators from accidents and the possible use of the creation against them. So it would seem logical that a intelligent race creating life on other worlds would also take the same precautions. If you are going to seed a planet with life you should take the necessary steps to make sure you can eradicate that life should it get out of hand. In our case we escaped the confines of our petri dish and jumped into space. The engineers probably would have thought of this leap as extremely dangerous to their universe and deserving of a quick fix. Hence the astonishment at our arrival and the immediate attempt to depart for earth with such devastating cargo. The different types of xenomporphs in each movie would be examples of cures for multiple experiments. One could presume that in Prometheus, each of the buildings lined up along the planet's surface contained different cures for different experiments. The ship on LV-426 could have been en route to a planet whose experiment had already run its course. Maybe they had even cured our planet of the dinosaurs before they created us. As for the predetermined course of the ship who says it was being sent to eradicate us? According to the Mayans they have checked up on us several times in history without the intent to destroy us.
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ginahamlett
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good stuff.
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Gabous
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Too many posts, very interesting, but i haven´t found yet another approach, which do not intend to disregard any of the very informed replies about Prometheus mythology, technology and a very possible sequel. I would like to share some thoughts with you guys: [size=200]PROMETHEUS IS (ALSO) A LOVE STOR[/size][b][/b] Please dont´think i am a fool romantic, but if we observe closely we are testifyng the relation between David and Elizabeth Shaw. The film show us a very sutile, refined, evolution of David, a robot which is very curious into knowing human feelings, not only data or languages per se. David "spies" Elizabeth dreams. He begins to "feel" something about her. DAVID IS THE CHOSEN ONE[/b][size=200][/size] David in hebrew means God´s chosen one. David, the king, was poetic, wise, and musically talented. I see David as the new and future leader of a new human kind, and Elizabeth as his pair. David knew how to operate the ships, maybe not only by intuison, but because he had the data. Somebody downloaded them to him. David works with patience and finess to erase Holloway which is a very rude human being and we can almost see how David "feels jealous" about that relation. [b]Elizabeth a great heroi[/b][size=200][/size]n The Elizabeth character shows us how powerful she is. She used very skillfully her triune brain (reptilian, the old mammarian brain and the neocortex brain) She survives, she "wants", she anticipates. Elizabeth can not fullfill her quest without David. David maybe was created to guide Elizabeth, like an angel, like a father, the father she lost, the father she is so obsessed to recover. That´s why she is so into finding answers about our origins. Elizabeth is a new EVE. David a new ADAn. Elizabeth has evolve much further than Vickers, for example, who is very masculine and basic. Dr. Shaw is sensitive but analytical, is scientific but has faith. As Einstein believed a scientist should be. David, admires Peter O Toole as Lawrence of Arabia because Lawrence was also cast from his origins as a british man and condemened to be only Arab. Lawrence, the explorer, the learner. David is learning to become human: but a better human being. David is learnign to feel. The "monster" is the very basic being, almost retrograd, and very near to the human beings we know nowadays. Ironic. Everything comes from thoughts: the head is the symbol of thoughts and ideas. From which the monster came out, from where human beings communicate and, yes, feel. The big head, totem, Mayan/Egyptian/ , the decapitated head they found, David´s head left alone. David will never die, so his love for Elizabeth, and he will follow her, literally, til the end of the universe.
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Methodair111
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I believe there is some truth to the concept of the engineers having multiple diferent types of "goo" or recipes if you will. If we are to believe the Engineers are masters of genetic manipulation and engineering then I doubt earth/humans were all they would have created. Perhaps they've created many different worlds and species in their experimentation. Like Holloway told David "we created you because we could"; if you had the power to create life why wouldn't you experiment with your craft and test your limits"? I believe the engineers not only created humans but all living beings on earth, and the first scene is the creation of the "primordial ooze" from which evolution emerged. The concoction the sacrificial engineer drank was not only a poison of sorts that destroyed him but contained the means with which to start life on earth. Going along this vein, the engineers would have different "black goo" recipes for each species and world they create, including the xenomorphs. It makes sense when you see the creatures in the urn room start off as tiny maggot like worms before developing into the snake creatures and eventually into the gigantic face hugger. I guess the evolution of the xenomorphs takes a fraction of the time it takes humans. I think the xenomorphs are indeed a bio weapon created by the engineers the same way they created any other species. We must realize though that the xenomorphs created by the engineers are different from the aliens we know. It's not until the xenomorph was born of a human woman before impregnating the engineer that it starts to resemble the aliens from the later movies. The xenomorphs are the means with which the engineers will destroy other planets/species. There could be a few reasons the engineers are sending them to earth. Perhaps humans have failed in our intended development or purpose and the engineers would simply like to wipe earths slate clean. Another reason could be that they somehow perceive humans as a threat to themselves and are attempting a preemptive strike before we could cause any real problems. Another angle could be that the xenomorphs are too powerful and the possibility of them overrunning the engineers is too great for them to be kept around and the engineers want to ship them off to a remote planet like earth to remove the threat. It could also be a combination of these in the sense that the engineers are trying to get rid of earth/humans whilst quarantining the xenomorphs to an expendable planet. So to bring it back to the original post, I think the black liquid in the urns is the same TYPE of material the sacrificial engineer drank, just not the same recipe.
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Indy John
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David knew how to operate the ships, maybe not only by intuison, but because he had the data. Somebody downloaded them to him. Yes this is an interesting plot point because David seems very adept handling various aspects of the Engineers life and ship's controls...so advanced knowledge must have been supplied..So who is controlling David now: Shaw?..I doubt it.. My vote is for the Engineers' handlers.(unseen as yet)..
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