Debate about the alien at the end of the movie.

What REALLY annoys me about it is that in the original, the Alien was just so damn Alien, we had no idea of that sort of creature when the Nostromo found that ship. To reduce it to having a human connection to it's inception is just a slap in the face to all Alien fans I believe. Yes, I thought it was tacky, cheap and not needed. If Scott wanted to put something like that in there, it needed to be more a part of the story, because we aren't guaranteed of seeing anything else happening with it. So it may well end up being one of those "Why the f*#k was that in there in the first place?" moments. And Jesper is right, Scott repeatedly said there was going to be NEW Alien creatures in this. Not big pale HUMAN looking things, or a retarded squid that was so un-inspired I wanted to hurl my popcorn at the screen, a spiky headed Alien at the end and a finger-less facehugger (Hammerpede) I really hoped for new creepy creatures. Nuh.

Personally i felt that promethues was a generally bad film, but i loved it... here's a critic i posted on another site awhile back [quote] i thought the movie was the worst of the alien/predator/ scott ripley movies. it had/has such great potential and if they follow up on the cliffhanger it could become the prequel to the best sci-fi film of this generation.. but i had a few major issues with it; 1. she didnt seem at all bothered she pulled a squid out of her gut.. 2. nobody thought as she was running through the halls half nekkid dressed in what seemed to be a diaper.. and a bra made out of bandage's.. that she had an 11 inch cut across her abdomen stapled together.. 3. the geologist who used the mapmaking gizmos's. you'd think if any of them would get lost down there.. it wouldnt be him. i mean.. if anyone had direct access to it, it'd be him afterall. 4. the facehugger rip-off "lizards", more adequately described as snakes create zombies :|. 5. they were on the ground as soon as they opened the door which cut of the aliens head. yet the only life form picked up was the engin, and only briefly. 6. what happened to the other 3 aliens who ran into that same room? their corpse's and exoskeleton suits evaporated? yet the decapitated one's head remained in pristine condition? the body was left on the floor, and the room was enclosed, no other way out. i doubt they'd have just left him there. 7.. wasnt in the slightest bit scary in comparison to any other ripley scott film. if i hadnt of watched an alien film before this, or i didnt know it was a ripley scott creation i'd probubly think it was a 7/10 film. not enough action for my tastes but enough "tense plot" to keep me watching but in comparison to aliens one this film doesnt meet the mark let alone it's sequels. and contradicts everything put forward by the AVP series, which clearly states that the predator's created the aliens as a perfect "hunt" fingers crossed this film has a sequel, and hopefully they do a better job. sci-fi's been let down in 2012 with iron sky which would've been as great as star wars in the 70's? whenever it was released if they'd have taken it seriously. and now this :|.[/quote] i now realize the snakehuggers didnt make the zombie guy, the goo did. but most of my points are valid.. i did LOVE the film, i am eagerly awaiting the sequel, but it could've been so much better.. and i stand by my opinion. as it is just that, MY opinion.

sorry i went completely off the point and forgot WHY i was posting. if there's a queen?... there must also be a king. maybe thats what this "new" alien is. i have a hunch that ripleys pulling the same trick out of a different hat. the new alien will be on-board the ship with shaw. a side theses, it would explain why Ripley from the origional franchise was able to mix dna with the aliens, if their genetics came from ours, they would be able to intertwine further. which was the biggest question from the last alien film. i also thought the squid was un-origional, but heck, there's not much more out there to be invented in terms of aliens. i just dont know what i expect "paradise" to be like. will it be an action? or another sci-fi drama?

My guess is as follows: The alien we see at the end of the film is something like a ascendant of the Xenomorph of the Alien franchise. Meaning that, the Xenomorph is a series of generations after the one seen at the end of Prometheus. I drew this hypothesis from the way it has the secondary jaw which protrudes from the primary jaw, something very similar to the Xenomorph's "double jaw". Also, if you were to re-watch Prometheus, during the scene were the crew first enters the primary vase chamber, Shaw finds a mural of some type on the back wall, which depicts what is, in my opinion, a representation of the alien we see in the final scene of the movie. This of course raises several questions, such as my personal favourite "Why is a "Vase-Head" depicted on the wall when for one to be created, a human would have to me impregnated by another infected human, who's "haggoth" would have to then impregnate an "engineer", which would result in the "Vase-Head" creature?". I like this question because it raises the question of whether or not the engineers have made contact with humans on Earth before, for such a creation to have been made previously. I know my response/question is lengthy, but I would truly like to hear all of your thoughts on the matter.

I am an avid alien fan and i must show everyone that xenomorphs did exist before the events of prometheus. As people who watch the AvP series will know these films are based in the early 21st century. The first AvP for instance is set in 2004 and yet xenomorphs are alive there and there was a queen frozen there for thousands of years. This proves that aliens existed before the events of prometheus but i do beleive that the deacon alien is a variation to the xeno species. This is my view on this :)

The Scene was made and necessary as to show the connection with the Xeno and the Urns. We see the Urns carry some traits of the Xeno and more so with the original Fifield Concept. But the process that leads to Shaw having a Baby Squid that basically acts like a Face Hugger that then ends up producing a Xeno Deacon from the Engineer it Face Hugs leads to the conclusion that the stuff in the Urns is connected to the Xeno some how. 1) Be that the stuff is what also produces the Xeno/Eggs. 2) Be that stuff that produces something that then produces the Xeno/Eggs. 3) Or that the stuff is produce from the Xeno/Eggs. My Bet is number 3!

[i][b]"sure it was needed. we would be pissed if we saw the huggoth (im so using that now) stick a tube in the engineer and then that was it. what else was supposed to happen to the engineer?"[/b][/i] Well this would have led to more Ambiguity and maybe could have been done, as then people would think.... ummm i wonder if he gets back up and then gets to another Juggernaut and takes off only to then get Chest Busted in Alien.... Yes the LV 426 Derelict had been there for thousands of years but by not showing the Deacon Chest Buster would have given some real Ambiguity as to what comes out and then what happens. There are many posts on LV 426 check my recent reply to a post but in a nutshell... About 1800-2200 years ago the Derelict was heading away from LV 223 to a undisclosed location carrying a Cargo of Bio Weapons, after only a short flight one of the Cargo had got lose and it got to the Pilot the Pilot was Face Hugged and knowing this he headed for the closest Baron Moon where he could Quarantine the Cargo and he set a course for LV 426 and set off the Warning Beacon, he crash landed the ship on LV 426 while in the process of being Chest Busted. [b][i]universally hated[/i][/b] I dont see a vast difference in Xeno we see in Aliens or AVP and the Alien one, only really the Head was different but in the movie we do not get to see the full head as much as in Alien the premise was to have the Xeno not shown that much and be something that attacks from the dark. I also dont think the behavior is greatly different, the main difference is that the Xeno in Alien could change the Humans it captured (not killed) into Eggs. [b][i]I think Ridley Scott has put A LOT of thought and time into the story, and I find it hard to imagine that he would half-ass anything,[/i][/b] Yes but dont forget Lindelof came on board with his Lost style of ambiguity. Ridley and Lindelof have then made comments that contradict Alien and Prometheus as far as the Xenos go... They made comments like the movie is [b]"where mommy, meets daddy"[/b] and [b]"this movie is about the Progenitor"[/b] and finally [b]"the Alien has human DNA"[/b] But they could be dropping hints in these to make us think they are talking about the Xeno in Alien/Aliens etc... when they are talking about the Deacon. Mommy meets Daddy is Shaw and Holloway or even Cuddles (Shaws baby) and Bob (Last Engineer). Human DNA in the Alien, well that could mean the Alien in this movie as the Deacon does have Human DNA in its ancestral genes. But the Progenitor which is what the movie is about, well this leaves a lot to lead to the Xeno in Alien does it not? NOPE! The movie was mainly about..... How these Engineers seeded life and eventually leads to the creation of us Mankind, the movie is more about the Engineers than the Xeno. The Engineers are the Progenitor to the Human Race and thus yes the movie is about the Progenitor. Just they have teased it in a way that would lead some to then assume that the events directly lead to Alien or that Prometheus 2 would have to lead to the Derelict on LV 426. If they wanted to tease us more in that way and play tricks then they could have added to that FIRE by not showing the Deacon Chest Buster.... Thus some would assume the Engineer gets back up like Kane did and then manages to Pilot a Juggernaut just not very far.

@Ryan-2012 The AVP movies are being considered as non canon and that means they are a story that is in a alternative universe. Best way to explain it is Batman 90's movies and the Dark Knight series, if you have seen the Dark Knight and Batman 1990 you will notice that the two Jokers are different and they came to be by different means, the 1990 Batman does not come after Batman Begins or prior to Dark Knight Rises. They are two Batman stories within the same universe just alternative. AVP as well as not being as well done as it could be, but then again every movie after Aliens was not done well, and Prometheus has flaws and fails to touch Alien. The AVP movie leaves a [b] PLOT HOLE[/b] that is that mankind would have came into contact with the Xeno and mainly AVP2 is the biggest culprit as far as this plot hole as how to they cover up knowledge of that outbreak of Xenos..... This would lead to 120 years odd latter and in Alien that mankind was not quite aware of the Xeno, not as far as the fact there was a major occurrence on Earth 120 odd years prior. But then as the movie is not considered canon this PLOT HOLE does not matter. But then again Prometheus opens up such Plot Holes as far as leading to Alien and in particular Aliens. But we can debate about that on another thread if not all ready done so. [b][i]This of course raises several questions, such as my personal favourite "Why is a "Vase-Head" depicted on the wall when for one to be created, a human would have to me impregnated by another infected human[/i][/b] Well that is a good point as it does look more Deacon than Xeno again maybe got to thank Ridley and Lindelof for this in the quest of Ambiguity and confusion rather than straight clues. Thus could the Mural be a Prophecy of things to come? But then we see Face Huggers infected bald humanoids in the Mural so does this mean that the Mural Xeno eventually gives birth to the Face Hugger/Eggs or does it mean that the Deacon traces its routes to the Face Hugger/original Xeno. Then again who is to say that it shows the Deacon, it could show a Xeno it could show a Organism that both the Deacon and Xeno evolved from.

@cmutt Pretty much spot on with everything you said. I have covered what i think the connection to the Xeno and Deacon and the process was. I have covered it a lot and one day will do a A-Z of what i think is going on but then again it would be a EPIC Essay and cover a lot thats all ready been covered. In a nutshell the Urns contain a substance that passes on Xeno Traits and DNA to the Organisms it comes into contact with, these Organisms are mutated and they Evolve and Carry Xeno Genes. Holloways infects Shaw via intercourse and thus maybe his Sperm was carrying cells of the Urn Black Goo infective substance. This infected sperm managed to revive what ever was defected about Shaws Reproductive System and Fertilize one of her Eggs. The Black Substance rewrites the Genomes and DNA of what ever it comes into contact with, now a Embryo that comes from a Egg is a early stage of a Organism that carries less of the parents genes and traits (the Embryo of nearly every creature at Stage 1 is near identical) [img]http://home.honolulu.hawaii.edu/~pine/book1qts/embryo-compare.jpg[/img] Thus this leaves less Genes/DNA of the Organism to be re-written and thus the process of mutation and evolution has less Human DNA to mutate and thus the end product contains more Xeno DNA and thus the end product is more closer to the Face Hugger and anything from the Xeno Cycle compared to all other infections we see via the Goo. It would be safe to Assume had Shaw been already say 3 months pregnant then got infected so that only the baby was infected then the end product would not be the Squid but maybe something like this. [img]http://thesuperslice.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/11-Fifield-Ivan-Manzella.jpg[/img] One of the Fifield concepts.

As I was figuring out how to type a question I noticed talking about prometheus 2... I just watched prometheus, and my first observation is that the thing that developed in shaw reminded me a lot of the movie Aliens vs Predators, In that during that movie the humans were Inpregnated through their mouths as in Prometheus the alien human was. And In AVP the oraly impregnated seed was brought out through the stomach same as prometheus. Seems copied a little from AVP especially since the thing that came from the humanoid alien in Prometheus looked almost exactly like the alien from AVP. Copying stuff from other movies is bleh. Side note shae Is awesome. My last thing to comment on is since shaw left why was the I believe you call it xenomorph born. (I'm not familiar with the term) If she left and that xeno is a different breed altogether then it has no significance it can't pilot an aircraft so thus it is stranded and will eventually die...

"..had Shaw been already say 3 months pregnant then got infected ." THis is a pivotal plot point and one that I don't think has been mentioned. Assuming that Shaw Holloway have had relations prior to the start of this journey she could have been already with child so to speak. It is hard to believe she somehow became pregnant during the trip , in statis, and when the infected Holloway had his way with Shaw(Did anybody else think thyat Holloway sort of forced himself on a very emotional vulnerable Shaw at this point of the story) . Of course she did have 'morning sickness' when David wakes her up.