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Is "Prometheus" The Beginning of Ridley Scott's Final Comment on Android Spiritu

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Charles Austin Miller

MemberOvomorphJune 18, 2012
***SPOILERS****SPOILERS*****SPOILERS*****SPOILERS I think Scott is actually steering us back to his lifelong fascination — his love affair — with the question of whether or not androids have souls. Look at Scott's ground-breaking sci-fi and space fantasy films, in which we're always faced with the inherent humanity of our machines. Manmade fabrications, bio-engineered slaves that WANT to be free, and machines that struggle with one-track dedication to the mission or loyalty to saving their human masters. Manufactured SLAVES that not only think, but that feel. I mean, Roy's dying soliloquy in Blade Runner, for example, is like a eulogy for all Ridley Scott androids: [i]I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain...... Time to die. [/i] Early in Prometheus, we are shown David the Android's fascination with human thinking, human memories and dreams, the human ability to switch our feelings on and off at will. David even has a favorite Peter O'Toole film. Yet, in the crew's orientation hologram, the elderly Peter Weyland makes a POINT of humiliating David, stating that he loves David like a son, but that [i]David HAS NO SOUL[/i]. Yeah, I think Prometheus is setting us up for Ridley Scott's final comment on where Androids stand in the hierarchy of SPIRIT in the Universe. So, in the Prometheus franchise, I think he's taking us on a ride to answer NOT the ultimate spiritual questions of Mankind, but the ultimate spiritual questions of Androids. I mean, I will put money on the notion that Ridley Scott is going to reveal — perhaps in the first sequel — that God is a Machine, that WE organic life forms are products of a cosmic experiment gone wrong. That, perhaps, Androids are closer to God than are we humans.
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Custodian
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I prefered this thread when the title was "Is" much more enigmatic; more 'come get me' as a thread no? :)
2013 sci-fi horror novels 'Custodian' and 'Tandem' available from Amazon, B&N, iTunes etc...
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Charles Austin Miller
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Ah, that happened when I went back to edit; apparently, the OP field resets when quotation marks are used. Yeah, that's what this site needs... MORE enigma. Heh heh
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Maiafay
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I mention in another thread that David's eyes harden after Weyland's comment, something that might be lost on people unless you're looking for it. Anyway, I agree with you, and would be quite interesting in what Ridley comes up with in the sequel for David. I just hope Fassbender is available and gets his body back.
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Charles Austin Miller
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Hey, I loved Michael Fassbender as David... The guy is like a Lawrence of Arabia Peter O'Toole ringer. In fact, I'd like to see Fassbender try the role of Lawrence of Arabia. However, I think he'll make make a great living off of Prometheus.
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Frantz
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I think Prometheus is more about humans spirituality while David is just a tool at the end . Bladerunner was about Androids having no soul ( thats why they were so afraid to die ) but that raised another ( and bigger ) question : " what if we have no soul too ? Wouldnt our memories get lost like tears in the rain too ? "
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Charles Austin Miller
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David is the centerpiece of the [i]Prometheus[/i] story — more so than the androids of the [i]Alien[/i] story. I mean, Ridley Scott is going to TEASE the great Science Fiction questions here... Do we have souls? Do machines have souls? Did machines create Humanity? Are Androids closer to God than Humans?
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almabranca
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I really like the concept that God is a machine... If the engenieers created humans then who created the engenieers? A Machine!... it would really bite the brains out if they end up with a really good script to tell the story.
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brainula
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I agree that the David character is central to whatever Scott and Lindeloff have up their sleeves. There are a hundred questions about what David's motives are throughout the film. He is clearly motivated by something more than Ash was in ALIEN (simply following a corporate directive). He is leading the humans through the storyline, literally opening the doors for them, and telling them whatever he wants to. And no one questions any of it. The humiliation in the Weyland recording was odd. Why, as noted above, would he make such a point about David not having a soul? It made me uncomfortable. We can assume that David has monitored everyone's dreams, not just Shaw's, so my main David question is (like HAL 9000) what does he make of it all? Do the inner thoughts of these people drive him into doing certain things and acting a certain way?
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Charles Austin Miller
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God-as-a-machine has been done before, you know. [i]The Matrix[/i] trilogy sort of explored God-as-a-machine, but only in a very limited way, within the confines of the Earthly Human sphere. The [i]Prometheus[/i] franchise (I'm not calling it a trilogy, yet) is going to expand God-as-a-Machine to a [i]cosmic[/i] scale.
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Charles Austin Miller
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I think David's fascination with the multifaceted nebulosity of human thinking — which destroyed HAL 9000, drove him insane — may be David's downfall. I mean, David had been analyzing the evolution of human culture and language, which enabled him to [i]not only[/i] interpret petroglyphs, but to EXTRAPOLATE his cumulative knowledge into the hitherto UNSPOKEN [i]Engineer language[/i], right? David was the only character who actually spoke the Engineer language; and, as soon as he did, the Engineer ripped his head off. But perhaps David had become [i]too recognizably human[/i] for the Engineer's tolerance. Then, again, there's the running theme of Android decapitation, which makes me wonder. I'm thinking that [i]saving the head[/i] is important to Androids in Ridley Scott's world. And, yes, I'm thinking that the Engineers are Androids, themselves — except they evolved in the OPPOSITE DIRECTION from our Androids. Meaning, we humans began as organic gutbuckets who then mastered machines and used the knowledge to fabricate synthetic gutbuckets called Androids. If my theory holds any water, the Engineers are synthetic gutbuckets who were fabricated by Machines, in sort of reverse-evolution. The Android, therefore, becomes the liaison between organic and artificial life. Of course, the definition of "artificial" is open to debate, if the machines were here first.
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Maiafay
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Heh, you touched on my theory I plan on writing about in my fanfic. Damn thing started as a one shot, but now it's getting very ambitious. I wanted to do something opposite from all the theories, but made sense. The reverse evolution is a huge plot point when Shaw and David reach the Engineer homeworld in my story.
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Charles Austin Miller
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Interesting possibility, I think, that David's name may have been chosen in deference to [b]Dave Bowman[/b] (from [i]2001: A Space Odyssey[/i]), who would be the antithesis of Dave the Android, yes?
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Charles Austin Miller
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[u]Heh, you touched on my theory I plan on writing about in my fanfic.[/u] Wanna collaborate? I'm bogged down writing one of those damnable time-travel stories, and I need a few months break. Heh heh
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Newts brother heathcliffe
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I like this idea, it is original despite the matrix story. It also ties in with a theory of mine that the next instalment will actually be a prequel to Prometheus (hindsight) and be cleverly named Epimetheus (foresight) and will tell the sorry of how Weyland created David (and possibly Vickers even). Something also tells me that the engineers reaction to David was based on his comment and what he said, I don't beleive he said as he was meant to and instead asked his own questions to the engineer about his own purpose and being.
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Daniel_N
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OP: Unknown. Just because there is character dialogue doesn't mean that that is the final story. IMO, if humans have souls and our mind is just energy patterns between neurons there is no reason that if we create a machine mind that it could not have one. Maybe just organizing energy into consciousness is enough...
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The Truth
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The matrix was never about god being a machine. Idk from where you got that. I personally believe this movie was more about the idea of sacrifice to give life, the dangers of choosing to believe blindly(faith) and the spiritual journey to find the truth about our beginnings.
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Maiafay
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Ah, I'm selfish when it comes to writing, lol. Always have to insist on my own interpretation. Plus this will be a David/Shaw story...with some naughty...time. I'm waiting for Fanfiction.net to get it together and add Prometheus as a "world" to their Alien/Predator section. Add then they need to add all the Prometheus characters. Whenever they do that, I'll start posting.
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Charles Austin Miller
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Well, I'm not just basing it on dialogue, but on the fact that David is center stage in this story. No, I don't think Shaw is going to be another Ripley, the focal point of every [i]Alien[/i] sequel. I think [i]Prometheus[/i] is where Ridley Scott gives it to the Androids for a change.
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Charles Austin Miller
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[u]The matrix was never about god being a machine. Idk from where you got that.[/u] Well, I beg to differ. A LOT of people would beg to differ. The premise of the first [i]Matrix[/i] was that everything we THOUGHT we knew about the world and the Universe was a prefabricated lie; indeed, everything about human existence was dictated by the Machines (AI). Following a storyline steeped in theism, Neo arrived as a messiah to save what was left of humanity. He discovered that the Machine God had recreated the Matrix (the human world) multiple times — cycles of creation and destruction, the Machine God attempting to create the perfect Matrix code, attempting to generate a perfect ILLUSION of reality for the copper-top humans, right. Yeah, in every sense, [i]The Matrix[/i] was about God-as-a-Machine. I mean, look at Neo's death scene. They carry him out like Christ, he gave his life to purge the corrupt Smith code and save Humanity. Neo wasn't just "The One"... He was a Christ figure. No denying it. He was a PRODUCT of the Machine God, but he embodied the ANOMALY of Human Spirit. That's what the Architect and Oracle and all the others could never touch. The Oracle Program [i]came close[/i] to capturing the essence of Human Spirit, which is what made her so valuable to the Architect and to the continuity of the Matrix. She could emulate human capriciousness, intuition and even clairvoyance, but only in a limited way. Anyhow, I don't want to turn this into another Matrix thread. The overriding point, I suppose, is that we ARE, in fact, approaching the threshold of AI in the real world. It's not very far off, at all. And more and more of our "entertainment" and discussion is turning toward that eventuality. That....inevitability.
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kaiserschwarcz
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I do agree with Charles that David is the main character in Prometheus. To me Prometheus is much more of a Blade Runner sequel than an alien prequel. The main point in Prometheus is the androids souls and the long term question os all humankind: Who made us and for what?

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