Is Ridley Scott trying to rewrite history with Prometheus?

you have just hit upon something i have been incessantly grappling with. I think the above post is the MOST important discussion we could be having right now (as fans and analyzers of prometheus/the franchise in general). Im on board with Prometheus in pretty much every way. I both enjoy and am UNconfused about the vast majority of the film. However, the topic of this discussion is a real puzzler. I actually spent a fair amount of time constructing a VERY similar post, but realized you beat me to the punch. Instead of re-typing something, im just going to copy and paste my initial post (@ youre buying...i dont want you to think im stepping on your toes; you created a terrific topic). It covers some of the same issues that 'youre buying' covered and is somewhat lengthy, but is VERY relevant to this discussion and im simply not re-typing the damn thing. Lets dig into this one! This topic needs a serious discussion. Ideas? Here is my contribution (what i was going to originally post): First off, I very much enjoyed Prometheus. I feel like it has blown open a door of possibilities for this franchise. However, there is something that I really want to have a serious discussion about. I know Scott has said that any sequel to Prometheus would spin even further away from the traditional “alien film”. Great! I hope so! I love the engineers and everything that comes with the human/engineer dynamic. BUT, the biological timeline of the traditional xenomorph and how the deacon/ampules fit into that MUST be explained in future films. Make no mistake, IT HAS NOT BEEN EXPLAINED. I suggest that the deacon is not a proto-xenomorph. In fact, all of the on-screen evidence flies in the face of the notion that the deacon is a progenitor to the traditional xenomorph. For example, the ampule room contains portraits that depict the following: 1) either a deacon or traditional xeno (said entity seems to bear more of a resemblance to the traditional xeno than to the deacon, but im not sure). 2) facehuggers (physiologically very similar to the traditional facehuggers) that are being placed before human hosts. 3) what appears to be a traditional xeno’s hand holding up a traditional xeno egg. Now…this seems to suggest that the eggs pre-date the ampules, not the other way around. We all know what happens when a human host is infected by what is inside one of those eggs…a traditional xeno! Judging by what the filmmakers themselves gave us on the screen, humans have already been exposed to traditional eggs. The aforementioned has happened not only before the events of Prometheus, but prior to 2000+ years ago (clearly the installation was built before the engineers decided to wipe us out; probably way earlier). Point being, the results of human exposure to eggs/facehuggers have occurred prior to the birth of the deacon in Prometheus. Also, the juggernaut that went down on LV-426 is supposed to pre-date the engineers’ decision to wipeout humanity (aforesaid decision being made at least 2000+ years before the events of Prometheus). Is it not? Well, the bio-weapons cargo inside the juggernaut on LV-426 was different from the bio weapons cargo in the juggernaut shown in Prometheus (eggs vs. ampules). Why? Did the engineers initially use the eggs as a bio weapon, but later switch to a more stable method of delivery (ampules)? The engineers clearly engineered the contents of the ampules, but did they engineer/grow the eggs that were present in the LV 426 juggernaut or did they find them 'as is' and decide to use them as a weapon way back when? Ultimately, we are still left with: where in the hell did the traditional xenomorph come from and how does the black goo and its effects (as well as the presence of the deacon in the film) fit in with the bio-chronology of the traditional xeno?!?!

My take on it: Sir Ridley is doing what most artists do, but very few movie makers are given the chance to do: Re-invent his own creation.

Scott is an habitual revisionist, so maybe get ready: and you can bet the goo will be at the root of it all, as that goo seems to be able to do everything and anything the story needs it to do.

I think many people want to talk about origins. Some end up getting heat and some end up in more successful light. RS tried and well... you know where it ends up.

No…we don’t know how it ends. In fact, we have no idea how the bio-chronology of the traditional xeno, the eggs, facehuggers, ampules, and the deacon fits together. There are plenty of ways the aforementioned “biological chronology” could be worked out successfully (in future films). However, as of right now, everything is up in the air. For example, many people call the deacon the proto-xeno. Judging by what the filmmakers decided to show us, there is no possible way the deacon (at least the one seen in the film) is the progenitor to the traditional xenomorph (‘why not’ has been discussed at great length in the first two posts). This needs cinematic clarification. I love Prometheus. The only thing about the movie that doesn’t really make sense to me is the bio-chronology I’ve been discussing. There are certain things that should remain ambiguous, but the xenomorph’s life-cycle and their chronological relationship to the engineers and humans is not one of those things. I’ve given some suggestions (second post of the discussion) as to how I think the bio-chronology might work. What ideas do other folks have?

I sincerely hope he's not content to allow this inconsistency to stand as it is and continue on like some kind of 15 year old fanfic writer who struck the lottery. That would be most disappointing. I honestly think one decently plausible explanation is that human beings were originally seeded as a casual experiment, one variant in a veritable intergalactic garden of genetic creations. At some point in their endeavours to create the xenomorph they started harvesting human candidates throughout history. As the mural on the boneship would indicate, have been using humans as a component in genetically creating the xenomorph alien as we know it currently. That is to say, they've been taking human beings for experimentation for a very long, long time. And incidentally, the seemingly random string of events in prometheus simply foreshadows what will be later revealed. I would be okay in accepting this, however I think my interest in the entire series would drop off a cliff if they simply attempted to ignore what happened in Alien altogether.

Good topic all around. My inclination is that man was seeded on earth to be used as host for the xenos. If the engineers created a living biological weapon that required a human(oid) host to reproduce then it seems the next step would be to maufacture host so not to destroy youre own species. It would be ironic if the answer to the question 'why was man created', was created to make weapons. A disappointing answer indeed.

^^^ Yes but that does dovetail nicely with the theme of purpose and creation perpetuated throughout the story. All this time, human beings creating artificial life, and rubbing it in the faces of those they've created, only to have their aspiration of a greater purpose dashed when it becomes apparent that they were nothing but genetic material to create something more important in the eyes of their creators.

Ive never liked the idea of the deacon being a protoxeno. The deacon is purely to show the lifecycle and the importance of human dna to make a xeno type creature. Pure coincidence those series of events that created the deacon happened.

@ kingme: i agree with you completely. Im just hoping we are on the same page as the filmmakers (otherwise the logistics of things get kinda sloppy). I guess a little faith in Ridley and company is warranted. For the most part, i think prometheus is quite impressive. I hope some very exciting revelations are in store for us concerning the overarching mythology!

Perhaps the Deacon aien IS the traditional alien in the mythology of the franchise and for some reason yet to be devised and committed to film the Xeno's we all think of as 'traditional' are perhaps the basterdization from the Deacon Xeno. Also. maybe the Deacon is really cleaver as the aliens that emerge from their prospective host retain to a degree elements of that hosts species intelligence. So you could infer that the Deacon is now 'gifted' with the natural instincts of it's primeval nature and yet also has instinctive knowledge from that of a super advanced alien host species as well. The Deacon could have followed Shaw and snuck aboard the second Juggernaught ship before she flew away with David-Head. Or, the Deacon could be setting up shop upon the LV 223 and will we lying there in wait for when the potential rescue party comes there to accertain what may have happend to the Prometheus mision; if the Prometheus mission was even known about by anyone or just a select few individuals. Those select few may want to send a second expedition out to LV 223 to find out what happend to the two senior C.E.O's of the Weyland Corperation.

I think it is just another living creature who's DNA will form part of what it is and what we saw it develop into in Alien! For me, Unless & until Scott makes the mistake of NOT doing this I am going to support this entire project, but should it become evident he is NOT doing that, I will have a Heck of a lot to say about that...to me, there would have been NO POINT what so ever, to doing any of this, if he was not going to do that. It is the ONLY thing that matters THAT much, the origin of the Xenomorph, NOT THE DERELICT, NOT THE ENGINEER's...The Xenomorph... and it MATTERS to me at least, a Heck of a lot !!!

What it may imply is that the Xeno's have existed for thousands of years in the galaxy somewhere, or longer for that matter. Maybe the Engineers got over run with them and as was the case in I Am Legend, they took over the entire planet as a kind of zombie-threatspin-off of themselves gone mad. So they (the Enginneers) headed off to the LV 223 world to reason out a vaccine or a cure in a similar vein as Dr. Robert Neville did in that film but there are many more engineers invoolved in this idea. Some began writing the murial designs and hierogliph's on the temple walls. The Engineers still went into decline and had to place themselves in stasis for what ever reason then 2000 + we find them in cryo-genic sleep inside the Juggernaught ship.

I still say we need to see it because SCOTT himself now has opened up this whole DNA debate...in order for what he HAS done to make any sense to me now, in context of the film it preceeds...And the one we just saw...we Need at some point to see how all of what we just saw in Prometheus is related DNA wise... to the XENO we see 30-50 years form now... in Alien. Otherwise he has does us all a dis service imho...but until we see that he did not I am going to be in full support of his efforts, I just do NOT see how this Can NOT be going there, the Xeno's did NOT exist already we know this for a Fact he said so, The AVP's films do NOT count in his universe according to him himself. And That's 100% clearly a Deacon, not a Xenomorph in the Mural !

you see the real reason for this is continuity within the universe, what people are missing is this....They are on LV-233 for a Reason, and NO we don't just randomly have a LV-233 without a relation to a LV-426 at this point! This was a Massive Military Operation the SJ/ENG's were undertaking that went wrong, a residual effect of that was the spill over of the creature onto the Nostromo period and I really, lol, would like to ask people sometimes if IQ's have just dropped sharply while I was away...?...because this is all Franchise 101 stuff here I am talking... They were coming to destroy earth and the Xenos were part of that I am sure and/or want to know how they fit in if I am wrong... IMHO we have to see the connection to these DNA beginnings which lead to the Xeno in Alien coming to be there as well...is THIS the XENO's Homeword...?...either way this is something else I think needs to be addressed because suddenly this system has two types of similar looking creatures but not quite if this is all true that Xenos existed already right...?... see what I mean...my logic is inescapable, common sense says he has to, he is NOT a common sense guy, I agree, and listening to all of you he "prolly" will not but IMO if he wants people to be happy, he HAD BETTER GET THERE AND SOON !!! other wise even I will start thinking he did this all for the money, whats the point...seriously...aren't all of you a bit bitter...?...I mean since ALIEN we have never been given a really proper continuation or enhancement of the XENOMORPH's story and that creature was the Damn STAR of the film if you ask me!!! It is also so damned much FUN why wouldn't any normal personal in film that helped create that thing WANT TO? This all has to be going through Scott's mind right now...No...? come on people after the WAY HE ENDED THIS FILM...?....seriously....I love Alien so much but have NEVER once been happy with what they did after the first film, in the 2nd one she kills it the same way, stupid, in the 3rd one Newt and Hicks are already dead and they through 2 different confusing mixed up endings at us and a directors cut that while stunning and fantastic, finally, only confuses us even more 'cause it disputes 3/4's of what was shown in the theaters, and then the Creature at the end of Resurrection...Come On, I think the Reason everyone got so excited to begin with when this was all first announced was and still is the possibility of seeing that Xenomorph again...PROPERLY ! Had that Deacon been born a Xenomorph at the end I think 3/4's of the complaints we all endured would never had been lodged.

the best Part is the "Xenomorph Like" snapping of that things Teeth which officially closes the Film along with it's RASPY XENO sounding Wail !!!

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v234/LT.HIGHTIMES/1a1prometheusalien2.jpg[/img]

IMO the only reason the deacon was different from the xeno was because it wasnt a traditional facehugger that implanted it. @sparty: do u think Fifield is turning into the creature n the mural or is he just mutating freakishly.

Tweak it i'd say

@KingMe, great question think you or someone may have asked me that before and I still am not sure, but now, as I think about It I think I sure would have loved to have seen whatever that might have been...

Sparty, the behind the scenes photos show Fifield with prostetics making his head large and i swear he looks exactly like the mural beast. Those scenes must have been cut

Yep, this is a issue that I've done a lot of thinking about myself too. So here goes my 2 cents: As for the mural on the ceiling in Prometheus, IMO it does not specifically indicate the alien/xeno life cycle in terms of a "human" host. To me, it simply shows the alien/xeno life cycle... in terms of a "humanoid" type of host. So this could very well be signifying humans, engineers, or any other type of humanoid life form. The point being, it's not definitive, so there's room for speculation. And given this room for speculation, it could simply be that the mural represents that the engineers simply know the stages, and the end result of a union between a humanoid and an alien egg. And perhaps this mural was their way of documenting it. Okay, as for the the SJ and the ship from Alien... my theory is that the engineers had originally come across the xeno eggs at some time in the past, and maybe in some other part of the galaxy. In time, they had seen and experienced what the xeno life form was all about, and what it was capable of. With this firsthand knowledge and experience, they realized what a dangerous and potentially useful organism the xeno was, and therefore they decided to harvest them for their own uses. Now how long the engineers been harvesting, studying, and using the xeno's... who knows. But my guess is that in time, they learned that the xeno eggs were perhaps too unstable and dangerous to be controlled and used effectively. So they started tinkering with the xeno DNA and they eventually came up with the urns, which we see in Prometheus, which are much more safe and stable for them to use. But in order to produce the urns, they had to continue to study and continuously modify the xeno eggs, which required them to keep harvesting them. Now perhaps this is where the original SJ from Alien fits in. Maybe the SJ was simply traveling with new xeno eggs cargo, or perhaps just transporting the eggs to another location. Either way, it doesn't really matter, because the outcome was that at some point in time, and in some way or another... at least one of the eggs, either from his cargo or from wherever he came from, had become active and a facehugger had impregnated him. Then, either the SJ could sense and knew he was doomed, so he landed on the nearest isolated planet, or it was critical and he had to make an emergency crash landing on the nearest planet. Whether the SJ purposely crashed or settled down on LV-426 is a whole other matter. And whether his warning beacon was meant for his own race or any other race, is another matter as well. I think it's safe to say that if the other engineers learned of the infection and crash, and knowing how dangerous xeno's and eggs are... they could have easily decided to just leave the crashed ship and cargo there. The warning was to stay away, and they know the danger, so why risk anything more. They lost one member and one ship... so be it... back to work. That's my theory about the original SJ and the xeno/eggs in Alien. It's just my best guess on how to tie things together, and it seems to make sense to me. And I'm sure there are some holes in my theory that I haven't thought of. There are still many questions in my mind about other things, but perhaps some of the details are better left ambiguous. It's more fun and entertaining that way. Peace

I agree with the last little bit of your statement there Spartacus, however that would also perhaps seem overly simplified. Although I have to disagree with you about Aliens, I loved that movie just as much as the first, simply for the greater exposition into the universe created for that series. I would maintain though, that the proto-xeno really just shows us what happens under generally uncontrolled circumstances when you combine some of the basic "ingredients" necessary for a true xenomorph. The mural depicting a fully developed xenomorph on that wall gives a clue that the Engineers have long since worked out those kinks and have created the xenomorph we know already. I would say the occam's razor approach to this is basically that humans were bred for genetic stock, as many other potential groups were as well. And if you add everything up, this movie was nothing more than an example to give us a few clues regarding the bigger picture. Human beings have been a genetic component of the xenomorph and have unwillingly participated in experiments for a long time, I really find what Ridley Scott said in that interview alluding to Jesus Christ being an emissary of the Engineers to be quite inconsistent with what we know about them. They don't give two shits about human beings, we're livestock to them, they don't want to "punish" us, and as David said toward the end of the movie when Shaw asked why they were sending the ship to earth. Something to the effect of: "Sometimes you have to destroy in order to create". That ship was intended to expedite the production or research process. Just imagine how disappointed a more primitive society would be to realize we're just as violent and petty as they are, only we're more technologically advanced.

Post edit: add on A few other thoughts: - We don't know that the engineers are all gone, or that the one that was woken up was the last of their race. We don't even know whether they had different races or species of engineers. After all, the one we see at the beginning of Prometheus looks very different from the one at the end of the film. So they could still be operating in many other places and on many other planets, even after the Prometheus events. - The alien/xeno mystique is very much alive a well, because we don't know anything about it's origins. It's not stated for fact that they were created specifically by the engineers, at least not yet. They could have come from anywhere, and anytime. For that matter, we don't know that much about the engineers either. There's still plenty of mystery within the Prometheus/Alien world. Maybe the sequels will tell us more... maybe not.