Hammerpede + Deacon = Xenomorph

Worth mentioning is that the deacon was, essentially, left alone to wander a planet where the only other known living organism was a hammerpede or two, and 50 gallons of spilled Quakerstate, and it probably doesn't care that much about deacons lineage, just that it wants to snuggle up in his face. EDIT: The engineers appear to be 'wearing' suits that consist of nothing more than their own genetically manipulated flesh. This artificial 'trait' may very well be why the xenomorphs have a bio-mech physiology to begin with, and tend to be, to quote Ash "one tough sonofabitch". It's entirely possible that the engineer-suit genetic information was 'expressed', for whatever reason, later than the deacons generation...or at least that state of its lifecycle. This one possibility fascinates the hell out of me; artificially engineered traits with obvious artificial origins somehow finding their way into the natural physiology of an organism. I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't be disappointed if this weren't the case.

Your observations really make sense. But I think the xenomorph is older than the hammerpedes, the deacon and even the black liquid, unlike some theories that represent the xenomorph as a product of black liquid and another creature. My guess is that the xenomorph was the engineer's first weapon, since the derelict with xenomorph eggs seemed very old. The black liquid is a new weapon they're developing in their militar base in LV-223.

@Jigsaw (Xenomorph 54) I also believe that, while it may not necessarily be [i]the[/i] start, the, "xenomorph" is far closer to the start of a sequence of events than it is to the end of that sequence of events. @fu3lman On your final point: Exactly. The instant I saw that ugly spike-headed thing - where the impression was given that it was to be left alone, to wander at will and shove it's pointy face into business that doesn't concern it - the thought went through my head that, surely, the first or second thing it is going to do is wander into that temple and either, get its throat immediately stuffed, up to the teeth, with Hammerpede; or, ignorantly dip its claw into the rivers of goo flowing through the place and so get itself transmutated before it even knows what day of the week it is. Presumably, the transmutated version doomed to make exactly the same mistake at some point, and ad infinitum. Unless, of course, the ugly spike-headed thing somehow magically knows to avoid Hammerpedes and goo and every place where Hammerpedes and goo are likely to be, or some other little piece of plot is slapped on to save the day, ensuring that it somehow has a reason to stay away from the places where 'Pedes 'n' goo are likely to be - which, unfortunately, would seem to be the only other places in the area it is possible to visit, apart from bits of Human vehicle wreckage... Or, perhaps a reason will be given to make it immune to 'Pedes 'n' goo, when nothing else seems to be.

I originally thought that too Xeno54, but it actually makes more sense if you think about it this way... - The Engineers create the Black substance to seed life on primordial worlds - Purpose to add to their genome via their children (us-explains their visits) - Plan changes, they decide to take our DNA by force - LV-223, former temple converted into an outpost, Xenomorph DNA created, sourced from Engineer DNA (Black Liquid) combined with the "Seed", deployed using the urns. - Plan goes ahead and works beautifully. - Craft lands on LV-223 picks up urns heads off to target plan and deploys the urns. - Craft waits in orbit as the Xenomorphs use up all viable hosts and inevitably die. - Craft returns, picks up eggs and sets off to LV-223/Engineer home world/system. - An egg hatches, Facehugger loose and jumps the lone pilot - craft autopilots down onto LV-426 - Engineer wakes up, realizes whats inside him and starts the beacon - LV-223, next target Earth, Engineers prepare - Urns accidentally triggered, Engineer infected, LV-223 quarantined - Under quarantine 4 Engineers enter hyper-sleep, 3 die because of infection, 1 survives - Xmas day 2093, humans land on LV-223 If you haven't already check my thread on the [url=http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/7023]Black Liquid[/url].

OK, S-bottom, you lost me big time... However, getting back to 'Pede + Deacon = Xono: can't be true because there was a mural of a Xeno in the Goo Chamber -- so Xenos already existed.

I completely get all the different explanations, my only issue was reconciling a segmented, biomech, acidic xeno with -anything- that the deacon was/is in ways that tend to be too 'specific' for ambiguous explanations, the most common of which being 'That's just what the goo does'. I think the acidic blood tends to be my biggest point of contention, as there was no reason given to insinuate the deacon was acidic, and likewise, acid blood was only demonstrated as a characteristic of hammerpede (or indirectly, the worms; indigenous or not). It would then stand to reason that the two traits had to have crossed genetic paths at some point.

exactly - the hammerpede is just a xeno version of the worm that got infected, the deacon is A first generation xeno, just NOT the first xeno

@ fu3lman, check the thread I linked to earlier for an explanation of what you are questioning.

"However, getting back to 'Pede + Deacon = Xono: can't be true because there was a mural of a Xeno in the Goo Chamber -- so Xenos already existed." Thought about that too, and it's just as possible that what we're looking at on the mural is a deacon, and not a proper xeno. In my opinion, it favors a deacon a bit more than xeno, and would still lend credence to my hypothesis, but I honestly don't have a dog in this fight, I just like finding excuses to nerd-out.

Are you two saying that "all goo leads to xenos"? If so, then why does it have a "life-giving" effect on the suicidal Engineer?

@ red wolf - just read the [url=http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/7923]Black Liquid[/url] thread, I know theres a lot of text more it will give you some answers

OK, is the word "goo" even IN that thread!?

Click on the blue words in my previous post, they are a link to the thread

OK S-bottom, I clicked and then read 4 pages of Solar System lingo; but no mention of the Black Liquid...

whoops, my bad must have sent the wrong link, [url=http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/7023]HERES[/url] the right one, sorry about that.

&*(%^$%@#@!@!!! OK, back in a few, then...

*()&*(@#$!()*$ Like so many on this site, I too fell victim to being timed out after atetmpting to post a lengthy reply!!!!!! *(&@#$!$&*@#$!#!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OK, peanut version now: A. There is no proof that the goo in the glass vials is different from the goo that seems to surround the vials. After all, two "identical" hosts (the Seeding Engineer and Holloway; identical DNA, anyway) ostensibly ingested the same material and one "seeded" a planet within minutes while the other took hours and hours to begin a zombie-like transformation, like Fifield did. B. I believe it's too great a stretch to conclude that eggs for harvesting facehuggers would result from an ostensible bombarding of Earth circa 1 B.C. or A.D. Just one reason: there's no evidence xenos "die off" when there are no hosts available (e.g., eggs seemingly abandoned on LV-426 were still viable eons later). Also, what "good" are facehuggers to Engineers -- other than to produce Engineerian-ish Aliens?

okay glad you read it... Firstly A. you answer with your proof to that of which you claim there is no proof - in other words... if the substance inside the vials was the same as the rest, why have the vials in the first place. Also the substance inside the vials is more clumpy and broken, whereas the substance outside the vials is more drooly and slimy. But the point remains that we have two substances, for if there wasn't then there would be no need for the vials. Holloway was infected in the same as the Engineer, but not the same as Fifield. Holloway did not mutate, but slowly began to deteriorate like the Engineer (falling over, intense pain, black veins). this is because they both consumed the substance within the vials. Fifield on the other hand was infected by a combination of both substances, same as the hammerpede, which explains his mutation. Aliens propagate using hosts to incubate their young. They cannot add to their numbers without hosts. Therefore if they exhausted their supply of hosts they could not add to there numbers and would eventually, inevitably die, with only their eggs remaining to be gathered by an Engineer craft (a la the derelict craft on LV-426). As for why the Engineers want the eggs, it is hypothesized in the thread that they may extract the DNA (which the Aliens have extracted from their hosts and handed down genetically to the facehugger) to add to their own. While this is a theory, it does fit in with the themes of sex, reproduction, DNA and mutation present not only in Prometheus, but all the Alien movies.

For the deacon to have ever existed before Prometheus takes place, the engineers would have had to manufacture the cuddles creature. Given its size and the look on the engineers face when he meets him, i dont think hes ever seen a cuddles. Too many things have to happen(DNA) to recreate a deacon, i think it was by chance it was even made.

It will be interesting to see what kind of trouble that goofy little deacon gets into in the sequel, given that there's a distinct lack of amusement parks and/or haunted houses, and a surplus of weaponized fish-bait waiting to dry hump his second jaw. If the xeno isn't the result of deac-and-pede, I'm cool with that, and am anxious to see the results, but I'm callin' it right now, if for no other reason than the movie seems to be setting those rascals up for a collision by merit of having literally nothing else for them to do after the credits roll. EDIT: Anyone else notice the engineer ships 'arms' almost look like a deacon and hammerpede coming face-to-face?

To be clear, I am in no way dismissing or trying to belittle anyone elses opinions here, as it's readily apparent that many have done much more homework than I in regards to the subject. That being said, the biggest wink-and-nudge for me is the ambiguous circumstances given to the only two (known) lifeforms left on LV-226, or at least as far as we're led to believe. At some point, they -must- encounter each other, and given the events precipitating in their existence and circumstance, there's NO reason to believe that one of them will try to make sweet love to the other. One was the result of goo, and likes snuggling up in warm bodies. The other is the offspring of another creature born from 'gooey' circumstances (eww) that also loved snuggling up in some warm body. When the two find each other, they're probably gonna have the biggest snuggle-fest this side of a fabric-softener commercial.

Without the capacity of Deacon's reproductive abilities known, how would you suggest this happens? Hammerpedes grow like earthworms, and Lindelof has pretty much stated the Deacon will become an egg layer, although judging from his body of work almost anything he says could be a bold faced lie. How would these two creatures mix? The only possibility I see is if the adult deacon can lay eggs or just make facehuggers (the huggers are present on the "queen deacon" mural, so it seems implied, but then again I'm expecting Prometheus to make sense) and one of them impregnates a Hammerpede. I don't think a "Hammerpede-Deacon" is quite the recipe needed for a Xenomorph. :/

That's the thing; just too many unknowns. Am basing a lot of my suppositions on the apparent trajectory indirectly implied by the movies ambiguity. I have no clue how the deacon would reproduce on its own, however, the precedent established in the movie (and in all hominid life) is that one participant penetrates the other with something and 'seeds' it. Worked for Shaw. Worked for grumpy. Worked for Xenos. I could be dead wrong, but an alternative hasn't been established, as the goo in and of itself doesn't seem to generate life, unless you count the unexplained amoebae-like behavior of the fluid when they first enter the room with the vases. Thus far, we've seen the Pede' kill the host it occupies, but that doesn't rule out that the corpse was indeed (still) hosting an embryo, or that the worm that jumped out of his mouth wasn't a completely separate entity, the 'father' having vacated after the fact. "I don't think a "Hammerpede-Deacon" is quite the recipe needed for a Xenomorph. " A human sperm was infected with black goo and somehow 'zombified' a womans dead reproductive parts long enough to produce a squid-monster complete with eyes, teeth, and rapey parts. How far fetched does my idea sound? :D

"Without the capacity of Deacon's reproductive abilities known, how would you suggest this happens? Hammerpedes grow like earthworms, and Lindelof has pretty much stated the Deacon will become an egg layer," Good points. It might not be the deacons reproductive characteristics that matter here...but the worms. As far as I can tell, worms are, for the most part, egg-layers, and if the deacon is indeed impregnated by the hammerpede, this may very well be where the egg-laying lineage starts. It's important to note that one substantial 'unknown' in all of this is whether or not the hammerpede can reproduce parasitically, and it's never clearly dismissed or established, just sort of 'teased'.

where/when did lindelof suggest that the deacon would become an egg layer? link possibly? im really interested in trying to nail down the bio-chronology of the xenomorph. Based on the evidence presented in the films thus far, i feel strongly that the traditional xenomorph pre-dates the events of prometheus (possibly excluding the events of the opening scene etc.) and the existence of the deacon (i view the deacon as a sort of genetic bastard cousin to the traditional xeno). Although i feel like the evidence is supportive of what ive sketched out in my head, there are so many unanswered questions we cant really be certain. If you happen to have a link (@Mcprevious) that would be great. im certainly not trying to belittle your notions btw. Just curious.

Just noticed something interesting that could stand to support my theory here. THIS Image of the crashed Engineer ship. [img]http://www.prometheus-movie.com/gallery/view/img/472[/img] With the following text (translated from French): "I am so regale on prometheus, return to the world of science fiction was so pleasant, I started thinking about what I could do well on Prometheus 2" And on the opposite page is this little guy, curiously motioning himself toward it to whatever end: [img]http://www.prometheus-movie.com/gallery/view/img/473[/img]