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Disregarding All non-Ridley Scott elements

cmutt

MemberOvomorphJuly 14, 20121212 Views16 Replies
I posted this in another thread, but I really feel like this is something that should apply to the entire community. -------------------------------------------------------------- When Ripley overrides the command to get MOTHER to access Special order 937... "Special order 937: Nostromo rerouted to new coordinates. Investigate life form, gather specimen. Priority one, insure return of organism for analysis. All other considerations secondary. Crew expendible." The "Alien Omnibus" book goes into a few more specifics and details when it comes to these things, but I've come to think that I don't really want to explore them now, because I don't think we should use or extrapolate any information that comes from outside of the actual Ridley Scott films. (ex: the other films, books, etc.) IMO, even the long accepted plot elements from James Cameron's "Aliens" movie should not be taken into consideration either, because Ridley Scott has stated before that although he likes "Aliens", it wasn't necessarily the same direction he would have taken, and it probably doesn't quite fit in with his vision of the overall story. So many people seem to include and rely on all of the information, facts, occurrences, and plot lines from the other (non Ridley) sources, primarily from the other "Alien" films. I read so many post from people talking and debating about all of the various things from the other movies, and the point I'm making is that Ridley Scott may or may not choose to use ANY of the plot lines or facts from the other films, books, etc.... of which many have become somewhat canon to the ALIEN franchise and lore. So for example, the whole idea and story of the queen alien from "Aliens"... that may not have any connection at all with Ridley's idea's, or his concepts. So he may go in a completely different direction and disregard that whole concept. I don't know that he will or won't, but the point is that we have to kind of disconnect ourselves from ALL of the other various influences, and go strictly with what Ridley Scott himself has given us, which is "Prometheus" and "Alien". At least, IMHO, that is what we should all be limiting ourselves to and sticking to. Because continuing to explore and debate on all of those other elements and facts may be pointless, and useless. Anyhow, given all of that... there's what we know about Special order 937, straight from the film. Here's what it tells us: - The company did know SOMETHING. They knew. or suspected, that there was an organism or a life form there on LV-426. - The company knew that the beacon was a warning, and not a distress signal. - They decided to send the Nostromo and it's crew to the site, and they replaced the regular science officer with Ash... two days before they departed. - The special order was for "science officer eyes only", so we know they intended for Ash to do ANYTHING and EVERYTHING necessary in order to follow the special orders. - We know the company wants the "organism or life form" very badly, enough to go through the trouble of sending the Nostromo and Ash, planning and creating special order 937, reprogramming MOTHER, and risking whatever consequences may befall the outcome. Here's what it doesn't tell us: - It doesn't confirm exactly what the company knew, how much they knew, or for how long they've known whatever it is that they DO know. - It doesn't tell us whether they've done anything else prior to this action, or not. So again, we don't know what they know. - It doesn't tell us whether they know there's a ship there, or the space jockey. They only indicate "an organism, or life form". - It doesn't tell us specifically "what" the company wanted it for, the special order only states, "return organism for analysis". We can only speculate on the underlying reasons. And again, this is my entire point of all of this... we can only speculate on most of the story lines and details, because ultimately... it's only Ridley Scott who will be filling in all of these blanks. Therefore, it may be best for us to keep our analysis and discussions within the boundaries of Ridley's films. That's just my thought, and I look forward to more discussions. Peace
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djrees56
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I can remember seeing a documentary on Aliens.James Cameron asked and received a ton of sketches and ideas that Riddley Scott and his Alien movie camp came up with but never used.Alot of things in Aliens were already thought up by Riddley.The cocooning idea came from the Alien movie production but was never really utilized...also the idea of using a Delorean as a time machine...wait...sorry,wrong film.Here's a nice pic of Dallas in an Alien cocoon drawn by H.R Giger for Riddley brainstorming the creatures behavior :) [IMG]http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z292/djrees_2007/dallascocoon.jpg[/IMG]
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alxn
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hm, personally i agree with you. discounting all the other alien movies you're just left with a very open-ended and big canvas for Ridley to paint the rest of his picture.
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aircraftfixer
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A very, very good piece of advise!!! However; when I viewed Prometheus, I was actually considering that it was a prequel (in some way, but non necessarily a DIRECT chronological, "next scene is Kane getting a facehug" prequel). As in- BEFORE the original Alien- Not having anything to do with whatever else happened AFTER the original Alien... But sadly, I found that this film didn't have enough **in it's presented story** to answer much of anything that I'd come to expect. Instead, it is full of question after question- Unexplained event history leading to too many possible scenarios. It might be entertaining for other viewers to imagine, speculate, guess, extrapolate, etc... solutions, but not for me. I enjoy the time I spend at this forum discussing opinions, actual observations and **presented in the story** material- both Alien & Prometheus films.
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deftones1986
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Totally agree, I was going to work on doing a post similar to this, but gladly, now I don't have to! :) :)
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tankgirl
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lets hope this is just the beginning of the answers.... maybe Prometheus is setting the scene towards our journey to the answers and there is more to come its the searching thats the fun
\"My God, its full of stars\" David Bowman
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Jelbright
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Ridley himself acknowledges Cameron's "Aliens" by sticking with the d in Weyland as he spelled it without in the original. He also includes a picture of a "loader" on the Weyland Industries website. Some have even said David's bball shot is an homage to AR as Ripley does the same, although that one is thin at best.
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Custodian
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there was NO NEED for an Alien Queen in Alien, when a facehugger egg goes for Dallas, or did I dream that? Or is Dallas turning into an egg? Alien Queen was Cameron's way of a MASSIVE second finale, for Loader-fight purposes. Scott should have said, "ALIENS BROKE THE ALIEN CANON," no pun intended towards our friendly neighbourhood/giant/elephantine Space Jockey.
2013 sci-fi horror novels 'Custodian' and 'Tandem' available from Amazon, B&N, iTunes etc...
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Indy John
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"...its the searching thats the fun.." ..and our searching nhas generated over 106,000 posts!! Not being technically minded,,I enjoy the notes analyizing the scientic aspects.. . To my mind what really generates site interest is the charactor (this is not the right word .. I wanted to say 'human'..but that also didn't seem right)element how and why the Humans/Engineer/android/alien forms acted the way the way we do. I sort of look at it as a 'brain exercise'.. Yes there may be more important things for me to be doing .than posting here...but I'm not doing them right now!( to sort of paraphrase a charactor from the movie 'The Untouchables'..)
Be choicelessly aware as you move through life
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Engineering
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While I agree with you and would like to only regard Scott's Alien Lore as "canon" most seem to regard all the films before AvP as "canon". To my knowledge Scott hasn't even said what's "canon" in redgards to Prometheus and what isn't. So, while it's against my wishes I will continue to regard everything since Alien and before AvP-film wise-as "canon" and therefore future events in the world of Prometheus.
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David 1
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I totally agree with the OP. And I'll even dare to say that Sir Ridley's original view is the one to stick with. James Aliens was an interesting action venture, but that's it. Originality goes to the original creator and it is his rules, plots, sub-plots and laws. Sir Ridley wins.
[b]Ask nothing from no one. Demand nothing from no one. Expect nothing from no one.[/b]
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deftones1986
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I just think everybody should take this with a grain of salt. Just put it this way, we can't figure Prometheus out yet, so let just start with the clues left in Prometheus and Alien. Put all those facts, details, clues, quotes,etc..............INFORMATION together FIRST. And then we can move on to the other "canon" movies. Sometimes we just need to simplify things, understand them first, and then look at the more complicated aspect. Don't forget: "Big things have small beginnings."
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David 1
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deftones1986: Also agree. 1 - Does Prometheus have some nods to AlienS? - yes it does 2 - Is Prometheus a reinventing of an idea? - yes it is 3 - Is it a good idea? - depends on the viewer 4 - Should there be a franchise about it? - not really, but if it gets done by Ridley it's ok. 5 - Does it mess with "canon" lovers? - In a sense, yes it does 6 - Is that a good idea? - Sir Ridley couldn't care less, why should I? 7 - Will fan boys/girls be outraged because there is no "xeno" nor "pulse riffles"? - Probabily, but does it matter? Can't a viosionaiy man have his work redone by himself for his own pleasure? 8 - Is Prometheus badly written? - yes it is 9 - Could it be improved? - yes it could 10 - Would you write it better? - I have no idea 11 - Are you a hater? - No, I'm not 12 - Are you a troll? - No, I'm not 13 - What's you beef with the movie? - No beef at all, read my [url=http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/7904]review[/url]
[b]Ask nothing from no one. Demand nothing from no one. Expect nothing from no one.[/b]
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BigDave
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I dont think Ridley has a problem with the Xeno lifecycle as it evolved from Alien to Aliens. Yes maybe had Ridley made Alien 2 then maybe the Queen concept may not have been used who knows, but i dont think Ridley is going to try to discredit or piss all over the Xeno ideas since Alien. Indeed i feel Ridley will not explore in depth the Xeno or even the Deacon in following Movies i think Ridley will steer away from the Xeno and other likewise lifeforms. This would include the Deacon. I think he would be visiting the Engineers and who created them and what their purpose was and also what else they may have created aside from Mankind and Xenos etc.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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David 1
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BigDave: If Sir Ridley put his hands on Aliens, there would be no Alien Queen. That's his beef with the James Cameron thing: James turn the Alien into an overgrown bug with "drones" and "queens" and whatnot. And you are quite right, he would do something with the Engineers back then
[b]Ask nothing from no one. Demand nothing from no one. Expect nothing from no one.[/b]
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synthetic_69
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[u]cmutt[/u]: I appreciate the spirit of your OP. Its similar to a lot of what [u]deftones[/u] has been posting as of late. [u]David 1[/u]: I love how in your single post you were basically able to condense and distill every debate/argument that I've seen take place on this board about 'Prometheus". Well done. BTW, I laghed out loud when I read: "8 - Is Prometheus badly written? - yes it is"
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Indy John
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*"Special order 937: (What were all the other special orders..all related to seatrch for lifeforms? *Nostromo rerouted to new coordinates. (Prometheus re routed ..maybe.. David would know.) *Investigate life form, gather specimen.(Same this movie) *Priority one,insure return of organismfor analysis. (This has been altered with the discovery of 'Goo') *All other considerations secondary. *Crew expendible." (..This bodes bad news for Shaw..) Sounds like a 'special order' for the Promethues That is a Ridley Connection to the two movies.. The question is why is there a continuing search of other lifeforms if the Prometheeus mission is successful? It must have not been as the Alien storyline continues the P1 search..
Be choicelessly aware as you move through life

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