what the engineers should have been.
KingMember
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[img width=351 height=150]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ML_kFkjpdzE/SK6uPUT8iKI/AAAAAAAAGm4/tzk1lye2eZE/s400/vlcsnap-94269.jpg[/img] "Frostmourne Hungers"
53 Replies
KingJuly 30, 2012
[img]http://deadlymovies.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/space_jockey_004.jpg[/img]
[img width=351 height=150]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ML_kFkjpdzE/SK6uPUT8iKI/AAAAAAAAGm4/tzk1lye2eZE/s400/vlcsnap-94269.jpg[/img] "Frostmourne Hungers"
genjitsu17July 30, 2012
I actually dug them too. Human looking yet obviously alien.
I may work for the company, but im really an OK guy.
David 1July 30, 2012
I like the way Sir Ridley made them.
[b]Ask nothing from no one. Demand nothing from no one. Expect nothing from no one.[/b]
CustodianJuly 30, 2012
King 1,
[url=http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/9059]http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/9059[/url]
[url=http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/6686]http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/6686[/url]
[url=http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/8312]http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/8312[/url]
2013 sci-fi horror novels 'Custodian' and 'Tandem' available from Amazon, B&N, iTunes etc...
KingJuly 30, 2012
Ah i see you've opened up 3 posts about this subject, i do agree with u FreePlanet they look much less scarier as someone once said "an abnormally tall Uncle Fester" or "did you like Vin deisel in the movie?" . the original looks creepy its horrifying, i remember almost 2 day or a day before prometheus was released i saw the pic of the sacrificial engineer for the first time, i literally though it was a joke and almost laughed untill i saw the comments which proved me wrong : /
[img width=351 height=150]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ML_kFkjpdzE/SK6uPUT8iKI/AAAAAAAAGm4/tzk1lye2eZE/s400/vlcsnap-94269.jpg[/img] "Frostmourne Hungers"
CrabfartJuly 30, 2012
Yer preferred the old SJ but the new engineers are well made and act in a very godly way - I liked that...
CostaguanaJuly 30, 2012
The original space jockey told us all that we were on unfamiliar ground, that extraterrestrial life might not be what we anticipate, and that whatever killed this huge, strong-looking being must be terrifying. That was the strength of Giger's designs - they truly suggested life forms which we could not understand and about which we could make no assumptions.
The Engineers just kind of look like aliens invented by Tom of Finland. Except bald.
CustodianJuly 30, 2012
Costaguana,
O.M.G. yeah, if this wasn't Such A Kid's Show, it would have been right and proper to have attached some [url=https://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=tom+of+finland&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=ZrMWUN6JJoOe0QW61YGoDw&biw=1280&bih=666&sei=aLMWUPalM9SX0QXIooDACg]Tom Of Finland[/url] art samples to your statement.
King1,
yeah, I'm really not a big fan of [url=http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/9176]DENUDED VAMPIRIC XENOMORPHS[/url].
2013 sci-fi horror novels 'Custodian' and 'Tandem' available from Amazon, B&N, iTunes etc...
KingJuly 30, 2012
LOL tom of finland, nice one there XD but yea thats true that basically what they look like, that and the "the beautiful squidward" . prometheus didnt scare me at all to be honest, ALIEN gave me the creeps, the derelict and the dead jockey the mystery behind it all, truly lived up to the movies title ALIEN, foreign/outworldly/mysterious/. that "Fear of the unknown" is what made ALIEN basically...."ALIEN". and knowing that the jockey was an actual creature, that had an almost faceless horrific look to it, the dead eyes and the expression on its face gave me the gave me chills. now they made it "uncle fester on steroids" doesnt scare me one bit.....not even just a little.
[img width=351 height=150]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ML_kFkjpdzE/SK6uPUT8iKI/AAAAAAAAGm4/tzk1lye2eZE/s400/vlcsnap-94269.jpg[/img] "Frostmourne Hungers"
SpaceNikJuly 30, 2012
I for one am glad they ditched the ridiculous looking wiener nosed elephant-man jockey. The humanoid engineers are beautiful yet still eerie looking. I'm not a puritanical male hung up on sex so I find all the alien phallic references a bit juvenile and tedious at this point. I'm actually really starting to hate all the alien movies thanks in part to the fanboys that want the same film over and over.
KingJuly 30, 2012
i'm not saying i hated it, i actually enjoyed the look of the engineers, but i thought it would have been better if they looked like how they should be. prometheus is a sci-fi thriller not horror like ALIEN. In this case the jockeys looked more humanoid which wasnt supposed to be scary, however if it WAS going to be a horror i think that the jockeys should have looked elephantine, it seems more disturbing in that matter rather than a human face which clearly isnt horrifying at all. But yes prometheus all in all is a different film and wasnt intended to be a horror like alien.
[img width=351 height=150]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ML_kFkjpdzE/SK6uPUT8iKI/AAAAAAAAGm4/tzk1lye2eZE/s400/vlcsnap-94269.jpg[/img] "Frostmourne Hungers"
SkyJuly 30, 2012
I think it's not the engineers that was the problem but more like story and the other characters that was the problem.
Uncertainty is the only certainty there is, and knowing how to live with insecurity is the only security.
KingJuly 30, 2012
in a way that too, but we're specifically discussing about the engineers in this thread and how they should have been , although yes some of the characters were ther for the sake of getting killed and the story did have some unanswered questions.
[img width=351 height=150]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ML_kFkjpdzE/SK6uPUT8iKI/AAAAAAAAGm4/tzk1lye2eZE/s400/vlcsnap-94269.jpg[/img] "Frostmourne Hungers"
allinambercladJuly 30, 2012
I think you do have a point, there - although I actually did like the Engineers as a matter of Design and use of Mime.
I agree that it's a little sad that they had to be diverted so far away from that astonishing thing in the Derelict that seemed obviously to be a creature in its own right, not a just a suit.
I accept that may be the compromise Scott had to make in order to take everything in the direction of the, "Grand Themes", etc, etc and also to duck the problem of trying to film and communicate the story of a lot of 6-metre high Elephant-Creatures that he just couldn't have given much practical thought to, 30 years ago....it just seems a shame.
I can't help feeling where they come from is a much darker place than the Big Bald Blue Men.
KingJuly 30, 2012
thats very true, some fans that saw alien when it first came out were upset that they had to wait 33 years to finally find out that the space jockey were tall white well built bald men.
[img width=351 height=150]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ML_kFkjpdzE/SK6uPUT8iKI/AAAAAAAAGm4/tzk1lye2eZE/s400/vlcsnap-94269.jpg[/img] "Frostmourne Hungers"
SpaceJockey1082July 30, 2012
RS did a great job on the engineers look and the whole movie. He made it actually realistic, he did his homework on ancient myths and history. He didn't give them super magical powers which would have made it totally lame. Just raw power and technology out the ting yang. I watch this movie daily, a little because I love the movie and well my son is 4 n he loves it as well so u know how kids are they'll watch it all day long. But I've dissected it over n over and I'm in to the whole ancient aliens thing, I read and watch a lot of programs on ancient cultures and their myths, beliefs and legends. Most gods are described as pale skin large dark eyes tall and very muscular. This movies isn't for the simple minded, it makes u think and keeps u guessing. RS made the engineers perfect which they r, and I mean what.... Was he supposed to make the elephantine creatures and make it believable I think not, idk I jus wouldn't have cared for the movie if he made them elephant creatures. IMO.... I just really like tge direction this movie went and where it will possibly lead. Paradise baby come on October 10th is my bday what would be better than getting the Blu ray and also getting conformation of the 2nd installment
KingJuly 30, 2012
i do have to agree with you SpaceJockey1082 at some points, but remember what alien was. it was a sci-fi horror masterpiece , thats what made the jockey scary in the first place was its appearance. i am n ot scared of it at all any more in fact that creepiness is all gone now now that i know they look human. Alien wasnt supposed to be based on gods myths and religion like prometheus it was supposed to be weird grim dark an claustrophobic thats what made it creepy. nothing scared me in prometheus at all. not the engineers, not the deacon, or anything. Although ii enjoyed the movie and thought it was cool and yes ridley did a great job of the engineers portrayal in this movie because again this movie isnt a sci fi horror any more its a sci-fi thriller. if it was horror we might have seen the jockey as they should have been because it works as a horror film. prometheus is based more on scientific theories and real life question where alien was more of a horror movie. all in all i like both but ofc i will always have to stay true to what alien originally was which was "in space no on can hear yo scream" and afterall H.R gigers intention was that thats how it looks like, his design is supposed to make you feel uncomfortable and disturbed. pale skin tall white and muscular goes more on the direction of what an extra terresrial would look like rather than something that should be weird and creepy which was what alien was all about.
[img width=351 height=150]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ML_kFkjpdzE/SK6uPUT8iKI/AAAAAAAAGm4/tzk1lye2eZE/s400/vlcsnap-94269.jpg[/img] "Frostmourne Hungers"
CouchJockeyJuly 30, 2012
Although I agree it's a lot easier to relate to a humanoid, I still think the whole purpose is the exact opposite: to NOT to be able to relate!
The whole scary point of the xenomorph is how odd that life cycle is, how alien it's behaviour is to us.
And the Space Jockey was a key point in introducing the xeno to us.
All of a sudden, we are presented a gigantic, weird creature, that does not relate to anything we know of. And he's just laying there dead!
Now the Greek Giant Bald Engineer we see in Prometheus is not just humanoid, but also completely fails to relate with what we see in Alien altogether!
It's smaller, it's body proportions do not respect the original (the extra-long arms it had in the original Alien, remember?)!
As stated before, not scary at all, and not in conformity with anything we've seen before, even from RS himself!
The suit itself lacks logic for a humanoid.
Why would a humanoid race make such a suit?
It does not conform to their own anatomy, the "helmet" is particularly dumb, and I wonder why such an advanced race would need a "flying suit", particularly inside their own vessel...
My hope? The only thing that makes sense for me: the Engineers are using the technology of the SJ, either because they work for them/worship them, or because they are at war with them and stole it.
And I hope that's what we'll see in a second installment.
Also and on a different path, Alien never directly "asks" the questions:
[list]
[*] What is the Space Jockey and where did he come from?
[*] Why on earth would such a cargo be on board the ship?
[*] What is the Alien and where did it come from?
[/list]
It doesn't make a point of these issues. Instead, the spectator ends up asking the questions to himself, simply because they make sense!
But I insist: Alien NEVER makes a point, or a PLOT, of these questions!
What I think Prometheus REALLY got wrong (besides the "stupidity holes" like petting an alien snake!) was it MADE A POINT AND A PLOT of those questions, and then MADE A POINT IN NOT ANSWERING THEM!
And I think, all of it to make a few extra bucks :P
Just gonna have to wait for Paradise, I guess...
CostaguanaJuly 30, 2012
Also let's remember that we share 90% of our DNA with chimpanzees - so the "Engineers" could have looked pretty alien (i.e. - not like Greek Gods as drawn by Tom of Finland) and still be our genetic forebears.
BigDaveJuly 30, 2012
Well i think a long time before Prometheus Ridley had the idea that the Space Jockey was a Space Suit as opposed to a fossil remains of a Giant Race.
For me i think the Engineers are awesome i loved the first scene and the full cut scene would had been better. My only gripe is that the scale is off.
You see if you looked at the prop for Alien the Space Jockey was about 12ft tall.
The scene where Dallas and co walk over to him he looks larger because they used child actors to get better sense of Scale. They was running with the idea that the 1979 Pilot was indeed a 15ft tall Pilot.
Prometheus the idea from concept work and sketches was a Race who stood about 9ft tall and up to 10ft when fully suited up. The SJ Suits hanging up on the walls where about 10ft Tall. Some of the Hologram Engineer scenes gave them a scale of about 9ft tall.
Sadly when they went for the close ups and especially in Engineer vs Shaw scene Ridley made a error and he has done a few in his other movies as he is only Human and not Perfect and what we get is we can work out the Engineer who attacked Shaw was 7.5ft Tall Tops.
Really Ridley should have gone for the same trickery that was used in LORD OF THE RINGS to make the Hobbits appear to be smaller. Then the Engineer would had looked truly 9ft tall which is intended if you look at the concept work and sketches for the scenes.
I think the reason Ridley went for humanoid was the story, you see he is hinting that the Ancient Civilizations who worshiped Gods prior to the Abrahamic Single God Religions described and depicted the Gods to be from the Stars and Humanoid.
Thus if Ridley wanted the Engineers to had also had created us and visited us just as say the Anunaki Story, then he had to make them appear Humanoid.
As far as going for a Elephant Type Organism instead of the so called Blue Mean Guy or AKA Bob the Engineer we would end up with Gonzo from Muppets.
So if they had gone for a more Elephant looking creature then maybe the below animatronic at about 1min in would be what a elephant like Space Jockey would had appeared to look like prior to being a fossil in Alien.
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5cN88EEHi0]Elephant Jockey Prop look a like[/url]
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
KingJuly 30, 2012
which is my point, u see the humanoud appearance is based off of greek gods, and it fits well into this storyline because, this movie relates to that theory about god creating men and such. and again its not horror IF it was a horror film like ALIEN then surley it would have been a creature rather than humanoid, it doesn't necessarly have to look like "Gonzo" all they needed to do was stick to hr giger's original design and that's all , the helmet in prometheus looks more like "Gonzo" than the design in alien.
[img width=351 height=150]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ML_kFkjpdzE/SK6uPUT8iKI/AAAAAAAAGm4/tzk1lye2eZE/s400/vlcsnap-94269.jpg[/img] "Frostmourne Hungers"
shambsAugust 01, 2012
I don't hate the Engineer but I must admit that I prefer biomechanical elephants and not the bald humanoids that we saw in the movie, IMO of course...and btw nice pic FreePlanet.
RubirosaJuly 31, 2012
I remember the first time I saw Alien back in 79. The one scene which has always been engraved in my mind was the Space Jockey scene. The SJ looked so regal and imposing sitting in his chair. The music that was used for that scene also helped the scene. In my opinion it was one of the most important scenes in the movie. I dont care what people say. The original SJ is of an Elephantine race. Its a Lovecraftian based being which influenced Giger. For those that do not know who Lovecraft was pick up one of his stories. The majority of his stories are space-horror type stories which center around the cthulhu myhtos. Which is about a variety of Space gods who came to earth hundreds of millions of years ago to bring havoc upon human kind. They are grotesque being who if seem will bring madness upon the spectator. So watching the humaiod engineer in Prometheous was a disappoinent for me. The elephantine SJ was what had to be used. It would be so terrifying for me to know that our creators look like walking humanoid beings that have heads like elephants. To me it would fit in nicely with the Hindi religion of Ganesha. Who is a god in the Hindi religion who has the head of am elephant.
Apex_PredatorJuly 31, 2012
They should ve added nails to the enginner head and voila, we have hellraiser lolT
Want some candy?
KingJuly 31, 2012
@Rubirosa i agree with you in every way, thats what creeped me out too. it would be silly for example if all of a sudden "hey C'thulu wast actually a weird faceless creature that was creepy and scary instead he sheds his skin and looks human" thats what gave me the creeps in alien that its face was something we never seen didnt recognize nor understand. Its called fear of the unkown, and it added a whole creepy mystery to it.
[img width=351 height=150]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ML_kFkjpdzE/SK6uPUT8iKI/AAAAAAAAGm4/tzk1lye2eZE/s400/vlcsnap-94269.jpg[/img] "Frostmourne Hungers"
CustodianAugust 01, 2012
all this makes me think, "Oliphant!"
[img]http://www.liveforfilms.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/oliphant.jpg[/img]
due to the design and size difference I'm STILL of the opinion that the P R O M E T H E U S [i]space jockey seat[/i] is actually [url=http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/9059]something they back-Engineered from the ORIGINAL oliphant race[/url], the derelict one in Alien.
Like, it seems (after film one) that Ridley DIDN'T answer his own BASIC QUESTION, "Who was that character in the Space Jockey chair."
He just 'stuck another driver in a similar seat' - a sort of GALACTO-GENETIC GRAND THEFT AUTO, if you will.
2013 sci-fi horror novels 'Custodian' and 'Tandem' available from Amazon, B&N, iTunes etc...
KingAugust 01, 2012
@FreePlanet yea i thought that too, which reminds me i posted a previous thread about me working on a fan film it did invlove the bald engineers but now i'm this close to being tempted to forget prometheus and write about the actual "jokeys" and return to their original "elephantine" creepy story.
[img width=351 height=150]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ML_kFkjpdzE/SK6uPUT8iKI/AAAAAAAAGm4/tzk1lye2eZE/s400/vlcsnap-94269.jpg[/img] "Frostmourne Hungers"
Ridley SquatAugust 01, 2012
yes many inconsistencies and some might say a bad example of the 'ret con' has been applied.
they are much much smaller in ALIEN!
KingAugust 01, 2012
he actually said this himself in the art of the film "Somebody said it's a skeleton and I said it doesn't have to be, it could be a degraded suit. It's only you saying that because you think you're looking at a bone structure and a rib cage. Why isn't it a suit? if it's been lying there in deep cold, that could be a suit."
i quote again "it doesn't have to be" and it should not have been IMO
and becouse of that we got bald white men, which didnt creep me at all like the original jockey did.
[img width=351 height=150]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ML_kFkjpdzE/SK6uPUT8iKI/AAAAAAAAGm4/tzk1lye2eZE/s400/vlcsnap-94269.jpg[/img] "Frostmourne Hungers"
CrabfartAugust 01, 2012
Don't forget its allot cheaper to do big white men played by actors in some parts! I think this is a big part of the reason!
KingAugust 01, 2012
@Crabfart probably, i really think that alien should have been left as it is, the derelict a mystery, the space jockey is a dead creature that no one ever knew existed. But Promethues sort of ruined that, now that we know of them and their relation to humans as well as them being bald muscular and humanoid, all i can say is all that feeling that was alien is just empty now with Prometheus.
its funny how we thought this movie was going to be spectacular, but little did we know scotts success (ALIEN) is what also brought him down (Prometheus)
[img width=351 height=150]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ML_kFkjpdzE/SK6uPUT8iKI/AAAAAAAAGm4/tzk1lye2eZE/s400/vlcsnap-94269.jpg[/img] "Frostmourne Hungers"
SpaceJockey1082August 01, 2012
yes i understand that the ones who want a creepy sci fi horror movie would perfer a scary elephant man creature killing everyone.. yes i also think it would be cool but i really like the direction RS took with Prometheus... A movie to make us the viewers think, which has become very apparent some dont like to do lol... So yes Alien and Prometheus are 2 different types of movies goin 2 different directions. I love my horror movies dont get me wrong but i really dont think we've seen somethng like this brought to the big screen. It carries tons of our real history, myths and beliefs. It riles alot of people up n i love it. Btw im wathing it right now n theyrewaking up the engineer right now. gotta go ttyl
KingAugust 01, 2012
i'm actually starting to appreciate the humanoid look, which reminds me, i had a theory that the engineers suit would meld into their bodies over time just like the pressure suit they are wearing. makes sense to me tbh if the suit later became a part of their skin.
[img width=351 height=150]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ML_kFkjpdzE/SK6uPUT8iKI/AAAAAAAAGm4/tzk1lye2eZE/s400/vlcsnap-94269.jpg[/img] "Frostmourne Hungers"
joeyjoeAugust 04, 2012
personally, im quite fond of the engineers (both the design and purpose) as ridley portrayed them in prometheus.
CustodianAugust 05, 2012
Again, don't get me wrong, I LOVED THE ENGINEER guys (both the sacrifice and the pilot), they were both great.
But (as I've already suggested) the Engineer Juggernaut seat MUST BE BACK ENGINEERED from the Elephantine(Oliphantine)Ganesha race (from Alien) that came 'thousands of years' before it.
So, as far as why the smaller, differently finished Engineer seat? is not even the question.
The question is, "When are we gonna meet the REAL Space Jockey Time Telescope Driver race and who's gonna explain THE BIG TATTOED HEAD in the Ampule Room?"
Look at this [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ItEUT69opE]HERMIT CRAB SHELL CHANGE[/url] video ... that (for me) is what a [b]real[/b] Oliphant/Ganesha Space Jockey looks like once he's disengaged himself from his TimeSpace Telescope STARGATE Control Chair; stubby undercarriage tail-like extremity and everything.
2013 sci-fi horror novels 'Custodian' and 'Tandem' available from Amazon, B&N, iTunes etc...
BigDaveAugust 05, 2012
Well we have to remember that the Sacrificial Engineer Scene was also thousands of years ago.
I still think Ridley will stick with the idea that the Engineers relation to the Alien Space Jockey is again purely that its a Engineer in his Space Suit.
I dont think Ridley would touch upon the Xeno or even the Deacon in Prometheus 2 and he will go explore the Elders and Engineers, but again they look more Human than Alien.
But we just dont know what surprises Ridley will have in Prometheus 2 i think potentially we could be introduced to more than just seeing Humans, Engineers and Elders.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
KingAugust 06, 2012
@FreePlanet
Yes i also liked the jockeys from prometheus. About the elephantine race, i would love to see them too although i would prefer if if they had no relation to the engineers, and i would rather that they were their own mysterious race that didnt have any hand in the creation of the engineers or humans, but rather had a relation to the Alien like they originally did. My opinion is that the jockeys should have been a lone elephantine creepy race that no one knew of, but i dont think we will get that now.
[img width=351 height=150]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ML_kFkjpdzE/SK6uPUT8iKI/AAAAAAAAGm4/tzk1lye2eZE/s400/vlcsnap-94269.jpg[/img] "Frostmourne Hungers"
CustodianAugust 06, 2012
King,
both you and I know that the Space Jockey has been RE-IMAGINED, rescaled, redesigned, repurposed for a New World Order of BLACK PHOENIX FRANCHISIOSITY.
LOL.
It's a pity, and it's a(n original Alien) canon-breaker, a case of editorial denial, but it's the way it went.
2013 sci-fi horror novels 'Custodian' and 'Tandem' available from Amazon, B&N, iTunes etc...
BigDaveAugust 06, 2012
"and becouse of that we got bald white men, which didnt creep me at all like the original jockey did"
Well the Space Jockey did not look very disturbing, it was not as horrific a beast as the Xeno, and maybe they could have gone with a Elephantine look but maybe it would not have had a menacing look to it, we could just get a Gonzo from Muppets.
And remember the Xeno is a predator it has a instinct but like a Lion it is not a manipulative or intelligent creature.
Humans are far from deadly than a Lion, not Physically but in how brutal and cruel and evil out race can be, a Lion is not Evil and i would say that a Xeno is likewise not a Evil creature.
Thus the Engineers are more like us, its not the appearance of them or even their size but the fact you know they are and can be very cruel and evil beings just like us.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
