How racist is Prometheus?

whatisthematrix...Are you serious? If you're post doesn't show ignorance and racism then I don't know what does. The post was at the least largely hypocritical.

Lol I dont think it was anything to do with racism! The idea of engineers being white is cos they need to look a bit sinister and they are probably clones and never saw sunlight (working in dark places) amongst other reasons...they might even have a bit were the engineers come to earth in Africa and alter the DNA to change us from ape to man later on!

There is nothing in the movie that suggests that man did not evolve from Africans.

*giggling* I have no a clue how u got that idea, You should explain your self a bit better please. [img]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/__yamtf7cB2g/SLfIgGTOeyI/AAAAAAAAAHU/vAQ1uWPrBO4/s400/Cthulhu+Evolution.jpg[/img]

African yes, but I think Egyptian is more like it? Mesopotamia would support the Sumerian connections?

Where the hell did you come up with the fact they were reluctant to accept H sapiens evolved in African?

Prometheus movie deals with the panspermia which hypothetically answers questions of abiogenesis aka creation of the single cell lifeforms from which other animals are [u]evolved[/u]. It doesn't answer questions related to the evolution, because that is not the scope of the movie. The reason prometheus deals with abiogeneiss is because we have no proof for the abiogenesis and that is why we have lot of creation theories. Evolution on the other hand is observed process among us which works after the creation - whatever means it started. So there is no sign of racism in prometheus.

Please don't make a race issue where there isn't one. There are at least three shots of earth in the movie, and each time the continent of Africa is highlighted. This more than anything, indicates that Ridley DOES think Africa is the cradle of life. [IMG]http://i46.tinypic.com/350s7c3.jpg[/IMG]

give me a break....

I think what's happened here is that chthon thought he was onto something clever, came on here thinking he'd struck gold, posted something he thought would generate plenty of chatter and maybe even shine a new light on Prometheus as a whole, then we all blew him out of the sky like a clay pigeon and laughed. Hohohoho. @chthon: Everything you just wrote there was entirely ridiculous and wrong. Massively. We're all having a a bloody good laugh at this on my end. Laugh?! I thought my trousers would never dry.

All hail cthulu.

I would indeed laugh a lot, except I don't feel like to. Racism in Prometheus... Now I heard of everything.

Hm. Although, perhaps, phrased a little presumptuously, in my own opinion...nevertheless, I do think this is actually a very interesting question - and probably a difficult discussion to have. That might be all the more reason to have it. Perhaps you have made it a little easy to dismiss it with a, "LOL", and also, perhaps, by making the wrong specific object the target. I read your content quite carefully. The actual query you have seems to be something like, "Why is it that the Engineers are actually [i]pale-skinned[/i], not [i]dark-skinned[/i] when, in the context of what we understand to be the origins of Man, it certainly would not be nonsensical if the the Engineers were black - and it might even make more sense, given the nature of this story, if they were?..." If correct, I don't know why you would not just say and ask that question more directly, rather than present your conclusions and have the Forum struggle to determine how you are getting there?.. Anyhow, in respect of what I believe your actual question is, personally, I wouldn't say that, "Prometheus", in particular, was being racist in that regard - that is: not in any greater sense than anything else is racist - but that, in turn, is not say that Prometheus is not making choices that are dictated by its [i]environment[/i], and that those choices do, perhaps must, given the context, communicate only a version of a kind of Truth, which may not necessarily an [i]absolute[/i] Truth - but are a contextually comfortable and practical, "as good as", Truths. Issues of the overall presentation of the Engineers did cross my mind a couple of times...but I formed an opinion about that, which is much less about, "Prometheus", and much more about, "Society". There is no reason at all why they could not have been dark-skinned - it might even make more,"sense": but making them light-skinned is costless, in context. Making them dark-skinned, within our current context, is not costless - it becomes challenging for a great many reasons and that then adds a dimension which, the Authors may have chosen not to saddle themselves with. That does not [i]necessarily[/i] make them, "racist" - it just means that telling the story with that dimension is a "needless" cost, given the story they are trying to tell and the context in which they are making the film?.. I'd say a person does need to be quite careful when using this word - it does have a goo-like potency all of its own - and I'm not all that sure it's always appropriate when we discuss some of the specific products, of a wider environment.

lol way to go overboard there I think this thread was answered in the first 2 posts no? :P

allinamberclad’s point is a really good one. The film would likely have IMMEDIATELY been labeled racist somehow IF the Engineers did have [i]any[/i] skin pigmentation, especially since their motives are ambiguous in the opening scene. It was clearly SAFE to model them that way physically, but that does NOT make the underlying message racist in any way. Shaw identifies them as being a MATCH for [u]humans[/u]. That in no way implies that they are a match for 2,000-year-old Greco-Roman humans but not Afro-Asiatic humans at the same time. We are evolved into human "races" simply due to environmental factors. Those environmental factors are relevant to our specific planet, Earth, and its relationship to Sol. And, if you still doubt the production's impartiality on this point, see Svanya's post above.

hmmmm....what about on a technical level? If the sacrificial engineers DNA was the basis for homo-sapien, then it must have been the basis for homo-erectus and so on. Well, I hope I dont fire anyone up with this comment, but there was a time when our ancient ancestors were completely covered with hair. During that time period, there would be no real reason for dark pigmentation....the skin was not directly affected by the sun. So, being dark skinned is an evolutionary mutation that served humans well, but was not the way it began...Africa or not, it doesn't really matter...technically speaking.

@Nrlfetmefan That's precisely my point. Based on what we know about the fictional context of the film, could we say that the film is prejudiced against Neanderthals because the Engineers are apparently hairless?

Chthon. Like Svanya said "Ridley does think Africa is the Cradle of Life" also one of the main heros in Prometheus is Captain Janek (Idris Elba). So......

@sukkal + @Nrlfetmefan I have to say: beautifully put, both. In respect of this subject, I find it very hard to see an actual issue, to do with this specific film, to answer, here... It's not often I feel like defending this very peculiar example of a film but, between you and @Svanya, you've surely closed this particular case.

Maybe the engineers are like cuttlefish - they can be any color wooooooooooooooo....why are people seriously answering this the guy that started it probably hasn't looked at it since lol!

It would be massively unintentional if it was racist. Ridley Scott is from Newcastle in the north east of England, I've always found that the further north you go here the nicer the people are. I'm from the south by the way!

How is it Racist? For one the Engineers are White and i mean like really white or should that be grey? They are meant to represent the depictions of gods and mainly look like many of the Greek Gods. And thus Marble in Color. Now most white Humans like me are not white, i am not white i am like what Tea with Milk Color? Michel Jackson was White, but not many are so pale. Just like Black People well i dont like that term either, as they are not black they are well Brown various browns even the darkest skinned African you cant really say is black. So i dont see why the debate? Also its a dark movie and if we had the Engineers as dark in color like the Xeno then maybe we would not see some of the detail. Nope i dont think Prometheus was being racist at all. Really is there the same difference from White European Man, Chinese and Asian man, Middle Eastern Man or African Man to the Engineer.... nope!

Ok, ok ok . Let's get two things straight before we try to respond. Firstly, Hollywood is RACIST. If you believe otherwise, then i feel sorry for you. Secondly, i doubt anyone in here with European ancestry can really describe or know what racism is or what a racist is so don't "try to understand", please, it makes you look stupid. Personally, i feel there is no way to justify the Engineers being white other than Ridley might be saying that the reason why the world is f**ked is because white people came from the engineers and white people f**ked the world up, the engineers themsevles are a bunch of f**ked up c*nts. But that's not the case, or is it? The point the poster of this thread was trying to make, is "why are the engineers white?" I really don't see why they are. I dont know why Harvey "two face" Dent was white in The Dark Knight either. Anyway - maybe some of you should try having skin pigmentation for a change, and growing up in this world - and maybe you'll "understand" what the poster of this thread was trying to say. But i guess unless you have skin pigmentation you have no idea how challenging it is to have put up with "you people".

Your accusation makes no sense @chthon. Let us say that if the Engineers would of been black instead of white. You would of still brought up the issue of rascim. There are some people who will always nick and pick at everything when it does not satisfy there tastes.    You @whatisthematrix are a very ignorant individual who exists only to antagonize and disrupt everything you touch. If anybody is rascist it is you sir. Who views everything in black and white. The color grey does not exist in your world. Also, when created Harvey Dent (two-face) was white by the way. Also, the original Nick Fury was white, not black. But you probably did not know that. But when Marvel Comics originated the ultimate line. In that universe he was presented as white. So you must be happy that old Nick was played by old Samuel Jackson. Also when talking about Europe you should take a couple of history courses in European history. Rascim in Europe does still exist, and it is not just a color issue. The Brits starved the Irish population, which is also called the great hunger. The English colonized Ireland during the 12th century and tried to eradicate there culture, religion, language, and traditions of the Irish people. Many historians have even said that the Brits even tried to eradicate the Irish themselves. Another well known example of rascim during the 20th century was the holocaust. I think that you have heard about that in history class. Wel I hope so.  Also, as I recall when the Europeans began the slave trade, at the beginning they purchased the African slaves from other African tribes. These are tribes that had conflicts with one another. When one would conquer, the losers would be sold to the Europeans.  So please if you intend to express your opinions on this site. Be prepared to back them up with solid facts. This site was created to talk about sciene fiction, not racial issues. Grow up my man, life is to short.

I agree with allinamberclad. Good topic that needed a different opening presentation so to speak. ***EDIT*** Not that I, in any way, feel that Prometheus is racist.

My post was frivolous. I'm perfectly happy to accept the film isn't necessarily subconsciously racist. Black engineers, white engineers - the whole problem would have been sidestepped IF THEY WERE PROPER F-ING ALIENS!!! I enjoyed the film, but I can't help wish I lived in an alternate universe where RS decided the SpaceJockey was a bona fide alien and not a suit. Like the very SJ-looking alien's in Ray Harryhausen's absolute classic, 'the first men IN the moon' [img]http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/2756/rayh034.jpg[/img]

whatisthematrix man you are soo lost mate grow up! By your assumptions the xenos being black is racist yer?! Omfg kiddy...+1 to Rubirosa yes totally whatisthematrix seem a bit racist himself and he doesn't even realise it!

There needs to be a re-make; "Blackmetheus" in which the engineers are black and the Deacon is white. The Hammerpede can also be black... getting more offensive by the minute. Seriously though, I think if the film had been more popular, making the 'original man' a neo-classical David may have attracted some criticism. My money's on some black Engineers turning up in the sequel...

I reckon they are all gay - I dont see no women engis omg hes being sexist maaaaaan.....

some people just have zero perspective on life/the human experience etc. @whatisthematrix: i have "skin pigmentation"; may i proceed to bitch and moan at will??? Again, give me a break.

Whatisthematrix, is expressing an opinion, passionately! Although i think it is a little too passionate! Yeah, the colour of the Engineers shouldn't be an issue!

Don't be so quick to write Chthon off... While I wouldn't say necessarily that 'Prometheus is racist', i.e. espouses racism, there are some racist themes in the subtext of the film. It was partly based on ideas from Graham Hancock and Erich von Daniken, historians/archaeoastronomers who talked about the abiogenesis/'mother culture' idea. Their ideas (and others) are still seen as some kind of 'proof' of superiority by some supporting fascist, racist ideas, such as in South Africa and Chile (after apartheid and Pinochet). These writers weren't necessarily racist, but their ideas are still an influence in these places...as were those of others (Julius Evola, Mircea Eliade, Miguel Serrano and even Nazi German thinkers) during Apartheid, Chilean dictatorship, Third Reich etc. There are also references in the film e.g. to Africa (as mentioned, with the image of the globe), to interracial relationships (Theron/Elba), the social dynamic e.g. white engineers... Also, and maybe a stretch, but the idea of 'Prometheanism' (i.e. that there are some 'great people' who move the 'motor of history') has been espoused by e.g. some on the right in the U.S.A., who've developed their own modern form of libertarianism/Ayn Randianism. None of this is to say that the film is racist, I don't think it is...but in this kind of theme dealing with 'human origins', it may be that racism is a common theme and ideas will make their way into a story...

maybe OP was hoping Engineers would look like [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&v=5CVEG-qbEFE]BAPHOMET[/url] from Clive Barker's Nightbreed - you know, obviously without all the crappy handdrawn fx gunk all over it, the BLACK GOO of a MAN. But if you look at DEEP SEA SHRIMPS, they're generally white because of lack of light miles down in the depth of the ocean - I'd apply this to the Engineers, too - they've been deprived of light (my summary is they spend almost all their time in cryo) [img]http://files.doobybrain.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/giant-shrimp-like-sea-creatures-2.jpg[/img]

Looks like my post was edited. I wouldn't want to offend anyone, so apologies if I did. Anyway, so I think it's still a problem for the Western movie canon to integrate mankind's African origins into films that touch on ancient man. Of course the topic is sensitive due to the sorry history of racism, going back ancient scripts in which the Romans ridiculed the Carthaginians, and Normans ridiculing the Irish etc etc. I suggest it's very easy to see the opening scene as some kind of Norse, white-God creation myth. Which I'm sure the Stormfront crowd would love.

Gonna re-post my comment and image I responded with awhile back on this thread. The continent of Africa shows whenever the Earth is depicted in the movie. [i]Please don't make a race issue where there isn't one. There are at least three shots of earth in the movie, and each time the continent of Africa is highlighted. This more than anything, indicates that Ridley DOES think Africa is the cradle of life.[/i] [IMG]http://i47.tinypic.com/23h98nl.jpg[/IMG]

Did you notice that the 3D Fox "statue" at the intro to the movie shared the same colour cast as the Engineers / Hammerpedes? A lovely design element in my opinion. Nothing racist about it. For one thing, there's no race on Earth with skin like that.

Janek didn't die first...

How does showing Africa indicate the film is not subliminally racist? By that measure, showing man's creation as a Neo-classical Roman god in a nordic setting shows the film IS racist. I'm sure RS would simply say ' the film's not F-ing racist' and that's fine. I'm just discussing the aesthetic qualities of a film he made. Maybe I'm being racist by insisting the first humans were black? Arguably all humans are African, regardless of their 'race' ? Perhaps the Engineers emigrated from Earth many years ago because too many 'darkies' moved into their area? Intergalactic white flight?

So, because the Engineers (whom in this film are inferred to have created the human race) are white that is racist, yet if they had been black then that too would have been seen as racist for their actions later in the movie. Door swings both ways. Take into account that despite a largely white crew the black and oriental members of said crew do not die until just before the end of the movie. I suppose the next statement will be that the Xenomorph is racist, because it is a black colored antagonist, that in the first movie was acted by a black actor. IMO opinion any statement that uses the word "racist" is by its very nature racist in and of itself. But in reality by asking if Prometheus is racist, you are not in fact asking if Prometheus is racist, you are asking if Prometheus is anti-black, which is not only inflammatory, but is also a more racist statement than the question you are asking. Because, remember one can be racist towards any creed and color, not just blacks.

On the contrary to most comments here, I believe chthon has a point! Although it may not be wholly intentional by the entire crew of PROMETHEUS, it does seem to be avoiding the actual fact that Africa is the origin of man. Maybe PROMETHEUS is making a statement on modern day concepts??? Idk, its just a movie, don't take it serious...

 

" I mean, look, if you're willing to discount three centuries of Darwinism, that's…wooh!"