Sequence of events Prometheous and Alien

which is why they established a colony there, in the hope of finding the derelict and gathering a specimen. or more. But because they were unsure were to look, and because of the moons atmosphere they were limited to where they could look. Remember that all the USCM were told was that contact with the colony had been lost. Yet, not was the colony fitted with CCTV (which was most likely transmitted via the network bac to the company - meaning they knew why contact had been lost), but the colonists had established a laboratory filled with at least a dozen Facehuggers, the examinations and results of which would no doubt have been transmitted back to the company "We've found Alien life". But the USCM, as in the crew of the USS Sulaco were told none of this.

[i]Why would SO 937 direct Ash to bring a specimen home for the bio-weapons division -- expending the entire crew if necessary -- if it was "unsure" of whether it was "deadly towards humans"?[/i] To emphasize how important such a creature would be, if found. Plain and simple: the Company knew that some critter wiped out another species. That sounds badass enough to want one for their own. By telling Ash that the crew is expendable is to emphasize how badly they want it. On the other side of the coin, if they did know what it was, wouldn't you think they'd take better precautions to obtain a specimen? [i]Several writers -- intelligent writers -- on this site will/would say that the SJ/Jugg may have only been on LV-426 for a MAXIMUM of 200-2200 years. While I don't typically quibble over facts/figures that may be approximate to begin with, 2200 is a FAR CRY from a "zillion."[/i] Forgive me for using a totally arbitrary number. Wanna correct my spelling errors, too? The point is that if the signal was anywhere from 200-2,200 years (per your writers), it would be less likely to find a viable specimen than if the signal went online a few days prior to discovery. [i]Your response to the 3rd fact is exactly what's puzzling me: how in the hell does NO ONE from The Company know about the "specimen" on LV-426!? While it's true that Ripley had floated in space for 57 years, Van Leuwen says that terraformers have been there "for years," which cuts down the 57-year figure.[/i] You're asking for negative proof. It doesn't work that way. Ask yourself this, that without speculation, does the Company by the time of [i]Aliens[/i] (and before Ripley's inquiry) actually know about the derelict, and how do they know? Plus, in an earlier post in this thread, I gave two examples of why the Company didn't pick up the derelict's transmission between the [i]Nostromo[/i]'s visit and the construction of Hadley's Hope. [i]And while it's possible (if not likely) that only a few had knowledge of a project where a crew was deemed expendible, it is UNLIKELY that those in the know simply said, "Well, since we haven't heard from ANYONE on the Nostromo... I guess that's that."[/i]You're right that is unlikely. They would be all too happy to find out what had happened to the [i]Nostromo[/i] and would be most cooperative with the ECA, ICC, OSHA, NTSB, and any other governmental body--but to a point. Remember, I mentioned earlier that a certain paper trail would be destroyed.

A request, if I may. Before anyone jumps in on this convo, please tell me this: If you set forth a plan that is illegal and unethical, would you really hang on to the smoking gun that would lead to your plot being exposed? If you answer "yes", please tell me why you would do this. I don't know about [i]you[/i], but if I launched something like that and it could come back to haunt me, I would do everything in my power to destroy all evidence of my wrongdoing.

The "rotten-to-the-core" Company is a mainstay in the Alien franchise, Herc. From Alien --> Aliens (at least after Burke hears Ripley's story and throught that movie) --> Alien 3 ("Bishop" appears at the end and tries to stop Ripley from killing herself & the queen xeno inside her; "Think of what we can learn from it, Ripley") --> Resurrection (I mean, how many "scientists" were involved in THAT!?) --> AvP (Weyland/Bishop/Henrikssen) --> Reqiuem (didn't know the Army has a Rotten Company) --> Prometheus (need I really explain it here?). Your assertion that The Company shredded all documents, killed all personnel involved and summarily disavowed any knowledge of the Nostromo is totally inconsistent with the ongoing storyline where The Company is concerned. Hell! They had more personnel involved in Resurrection than the bad guy in James Bond films! Money & Greed, my friend. As for your (hopefully rhetorical) questions: A. Not sure we disagree on the 1st point; The Co. indeed wants the specimen because -- while they don't KNOW FOR SURE that it will be deadly to humans -- anything that warning beacon speaks about is of paramount importance (i.e. Money/Greed) and The Co. was willing to let all Nostromo personnel die to get it. B. Better precautions? Dude, their plan worked perfectly -- except Ripley turned out to be one smart, tough Cookie (of course, in "Real life," she woulda died as well and Ash woulda brought home the xeno -- just like David would have been pummeled by Goliath). Though not much of a movie then, is it? C. OSHA? ECA? ICC? Dude, I'm not sure you're following this franchise... There are never any mentions of bona fide governmental agencies except for the Armed Forces. But on a lighter note, it'da been funny if Bill Clinton were in Prometh -- NO WAIT! -- no female Engineers.

Wolf: I've never doubted for a moment the corruptness of the Company, so I'm left wondering why you had posted that opener. Once again, there is no evidence that the Company between [i]Alien[/i] and [i]Aliens[/i] knew anything of Special Order 937. Restating something that lacks proof does not establish proof. You keep failing to acknowledge that what the Company does in [i]Aliens[/i] and [i]Alien³[/i] was based on Carter J. Burke's taking initiative. [i]Your assertion that The Company shredded all documents, killed all personnel involved and summarily disavowed any knowledge of the Nostromo is totally inconsistent with the ongoing storyline where The Company is concerned.[/i] I didn't say that they killed all personnel, I gave examples as to why those behind SO 937 wouldn't be with the Company 57 years later. Not only did you misrepresent what I had said, you hadn't brought forth anything that says that the Company knew about it 57 years later and acted upon it. From what is actually shown, they acted on Burke's hunch. [i]Better precautions? Dude, their plan worked perfectly -- except Ripley turned out to be one smart, tough Cookie (of course, in "Real life," she woulda died as well and Ash woulda brought home the xeno -- just like David would have been pummeled by Goliath). Though not much of a movie then, is it?[/i] If it worked so perfectly, except for that meddling warrant officer, why didn't they get the alien? Again, if I wanted something that was supposedly dangerous I would send out something more substantial than just some tug jockeys. [i]OSHA? ECA? ICC? Dude, I'm not sure you're following this franchise... There are never any mentions of bona fide governmental agencies except for the Armed Forces. But on a lighter note, it'da been funny if Bill Clinton were in Prometh -- NO WAIT! -- no female Engineers.[/i] By mentioning OSHA, I was just trying to inject a little realism into this discussion via a contemporary reference. As for my not following the franchise, I've been following it since the summer of 1978. Since then, I've been exposed to quite a few materials. There is mention of the Extrasolar Colonization Administration (the androgynous lady who describes LV-426 as "a rock" was an ECA rep) and there is also mention of the Interstellar Commerce Commission (Van Leeuwen is an ICC rep.). I'd say I've been following this franchise pretty closely. ;)

[i]OK, ya got me: one 2-minute scene in six films where two actors with a total of 2-3 lines who represent futuristic govermental agencies... I can't believe I forgot about them.[/i] Ha! ;) [i]Listen, all I'm saying is that it's a bona fide plot hole -- I M O -- that The Company "knows nothing" about the xenos when Ripley awakens.[/i] But it's not. I already explained how it was possible. Just because you're hanging onto a cherished belief doesn't make it bona fide. [i]YOUR reply that (paraphrasing) "It's common sense, Red Wolf: all those associated with SO 937 are dead or gone from The Company" doesn't wash with me. No right; no wrong. Just my opinion.[/i] Let's see. SO 937 was most likely put together by mid- to upper-level managers. These would be people in their late 20s or older. But let's err on the younger margin, shall we? If these people average 27 years old in age, in 57 years they would be [i]84 years old[/i] upon Ripley's return, that is if they didn't die from accidents, disease, natural causes, and other things people die from. Upon hitting 84 candles on their cakes, I seriously doubt they would be burning the midnight oil at Weyland Yutani, but would be wearing tanning oil on some beach. I don't know about [i]you[/i], but [i]I[/i] plan to retire by or before my 65th birthday. [i]And to your point that the lack of a Colonial Marine unit being sent to LV-426 means that The Co. was unsure of what it had out there (or that the xeno may no longer exist), I believe they merely sent the closest ship to investigate.[/i] I made no such point. [i]Since no one ever heard back from the crew of the Nostromo, I woulda thought that a money-hungry Company woulda taken that as a sign that the xeno was most definitely alive and sent a Marine "rescue mission" out there ASAP rather than letting things go.[/i] The less attention, the better. For all we know, they might have been contacted by governmental agencies and gave them all the available information about the [i]Nostromo[/i]'s flight plan; "available" meaning "non-incriminating" and "still-existing".

@ Hercules and Red Wolf Guys, just to get back on track, as the thread was posted on the Talk P-2 section, if we assume that the company knew exactly what was on LV-426, in your view HOW did the company know about the Xenomorph on LV-426 prior to releasing the SO 937? So far we have the following views: - Someone from the company or linked to the company visited the site between the events of Shaw and David leaving LV-223 and the Nostromo mission to collect mineral ore etc .... - Hologram transmitted from SJ of derelict to another Engineer ship (Snorkel story) - The Company intercepted from base and subsequently understood / deciphered the warning signal from the derelict (one of the David 8's from base, David himself whilst travelling with Shaw or possibly even Ash as far as we know?) any other ideas?

How the company finds out about the warning beacon on LV-426 is a mistery. Not much of a mystery. In the novelization of Alien, Ripley guessed that either a Company probe or an off-course ship might have picked up the signal. Granted, that explanation isn't definite, but it still works. ----------------------- I have always believed that the Nostromo intercepted the signal first. In Alien 3, the android "Bishop" reveals that the company knows any information processed in the ship's computers: FEMALE VOICE (OS) Fire in cryogenic compartment. Repeat. Fire in cryogenic compartment. All personnel report to -- RIPLEY What started the fire, Bishop? (no response) Can you hear me? BISHOP The fire was electrical. It was in the subflooring... RIPLEY Did sensors detect any moving life forms on the ship prior to separation? BISHOP It's very dark here, Ripley. I'm not what I used to be. RIPLEY Just tell me - does the recorder indicate anything? Was there an Alien on board? An eternity. 26/l/91 W.H., D.G. 39. 53 CONT 53CONT BISHOP Yes . RIPLEY Is it still on the Sulaco or did it come with us on the EEV? BISHOP It was with us all the way. RIPLEY Does the company know? BISHOP The company knows everything that happened on the ship. It all goes into the computer and gets sent back to the network. RIPLEY And they want it? BISHOP I don't know. I'm not feeling very well. etc. etc. .... (taken from: http://sfy.ru/?script=alien3_hill) In the 1979 "Alien" I think sometime after Kane gets infected, Ash reports to the Company or is secretly contacted by the company and given Special Order 937 (crew expendable). I don't think Ash was planted on board to betray the crew from the beginning. I think the Company gave him the order to save the Alien at all costs after Kane was infected.

@ GoblinShark Your theory does make sense and I have never thought about that. It stacks up as Dallas selects "Interface 2037" when investigating Mother's notification (not SO 937) after breakfast .... However, the fact the Ash was replaced at the last minute on the ship prior to departure does raise suspicion. Also, he overules Ripley (more senior to him) twice before the alien is brought on board ... 1) Rejecting her request of going after Kane, Dallas and Lambert when she suspects the signal is a warning and 2) opening the inner hatch manually overriding Ripley's order to keep Kane outside in Quarantine .... surely the company wouln't have known so quickly and released SO 937 from when Ash sees them outside to when he opens the inner hatch? Maybe it can be argued that the Company knew of the signal and wanted to plant an artificial person on board in the event further instruction was needed and programmed Ash to fully investigate any sign of intelligent life in advance ...

@Eggs or something >: "Maybe it can be argued that the Company knew of the signal and wanted to plant an artificial person on board in the event further instruction was needed and programmed Ash to fully investigate any sign of intelligent life in advance ..." You bring up some good points as well. Particularly the fact that Ash was swapped-into the crew roster at the last minute. "The Company" was playing chess, not checkers. They wanted a game piece in place that they could control and command. I guess where I get fuzzy is the fact that Ash did not go with the team in the first place. Supposedly he was "monitoring their channel", but Ripley could have handled that. Ash being the science officer, you'd think his role on the ship as well as natural curiosity would have made him a better candidate for the Team's third member rather than Lambert. But I guess where I was heading with this was if SO 937 was given to Ash early on, then why would he sit on the sidelines while the crew investigated the derelict? He had no idea if Kane or anyone else on the exploration Team would actually get infected. It is entirely feasible that all 3 could have returned without having encountered any facehuggers. Perhaps Ash would have taken stronger measures at that point, like commandeering the crew and forcing one of them to get impregnated. For our review, here is SO 937: "Priority one Insure return of organism for analysis. All other considerations secondary. Crew expendable." Chilling, but it reveals nothing about how much the company knew about this organism when they gave the order. It seems like a RESPONSE to me as well. In other words, I think it went something like this: Science Officer Ash Communication, Priority One, Encrypt "Kane returned with organism attached to his face. Organism appears to have embedded some sort of embryo. Embryo growing at phenomenal rate...please advise..." To which the company responds: "Priority one Insure return of organism for analysis. All other considerations secondary. Crew expendable." Your thoughts?

Something I just thought of. There was a delay in communications. There was a limit to how far communications could travel and be picked-up. Right after they wake-up and discover they are not home yet...Ripley tries contacting Antarctic control. Nothing. No reply. Presumably because they are out of communications range. Out of communications range... Which means, SO 937 must have come before the crew of the Nostromo entered Cryo sleep. Ash "awoke" with his SO 937 already in his brain. The fact that "Mother is programmed to change course and wake the crew" under certain conditions was a ruse to get them to set down and ( hopefully ) get infected. One way or another, the company would have gotten them to set down there.

@ GoblinShark › With regards to Ash not joining them to investigate the transmission, I assume his strategy was to stay on board to ensure the organism got in if one of the investigating crew got infected. If he had gone with Dallas and Kane, Ripley would have not let them in by law. I agree with regards to the transmissions being down in your latest post although arguably Ash could have been comunicating with the company through a special channel not accessible to the other crew members and then downloaded SO 937 in Mother somehow .... who knows! I still think your theory stacks up though as Dallas did not see the SO 937 when first accessing mother (just Interface 2037)... I think! SO 937 was for the Science Officer's eyes only but it would have popped up on the menu surely like it it did later when Ripley dug deeper with her questions to Mother??? Maybe Dallas disregarded it or paid no attention .... surely he would have asked Ash what that was all about prior landing ion LV-426 as he was the Captain??!! So, going back to my initial question... if you were writing the script of the sequel(s) of Prometheus and was asked by FOX or Scott to link Prometheus with LV-426... in your view, HOW would you let the Company know about the warning signal from the derelict ... its this speculation that fascinates me as will be object of the scripts of future films if a link is created. There is a gap to be filled even after the bigger gap of how the SJ crash lands on LV-426 which is discussed in other threads ...

Aside from us seeing the Company inspecting the crash of the derelict first hand, any explanation that points to them knowing what kind of creature is onboard is going to be hamfisted.

"any explanation [of how the company knew about it] ... would be hamfisted" Agreed. Some of the main questions I have at the end of each movie are: ALIEN: -Who is the SJ? -Where did the eggs come from? ALIENS: -Answers "who is laying the eggs" - there is a Queen Alien. But not sure where she came from. Was she on the Derelict when it crashed? Did a "normal" alien mutate into a queen when it found itself in an environment where there was no queen? -Was the Derelict destroyed in the explosion? ALIEN 3: -Where did the egg come from that impregnated Ripley? Was it the Queen Alien that brought it with her when she stowed away on the dropship? ALIEN RESURRECTION: -Queen's reproductive cycle came from Ripley? PROMETHEUS: -Some things are answered about the SJ. He was an "Engineer". But the origins of the Engineer still are unknown. -There seems to be a lot more going on with DNA than was ever made clear in previous movies. There seems to be some sort of determination of "what" will come forth based upon what is combined with what. In almost every case, the result seems to bring forth a creature that is dangerous to the organisms around it.

The thing that bothers me is that ash says:' you have my sympathies, I admire its purity/ perfection, you have no concept of what you are dealing with'. This seems like pretty clear proof that WT knew exactly what the xenomorph was and about face hugging. Also their is a scene where ash switches of a monitor just as the derelict comes into view as if he didn't anyone else to see it and it also seems as if he recognised as in:' finally - there she is". That some pretty strong evidence to show they knew exactly what was going on and someone definitely was there before them(nostromo crew).

@oduodu: [i]The thing that bothers me is that ash says:' you have my sympathies, I admire its purity/ perfection, you have no concept of what you are dealing with'. This seems like pretty clear proof that WT knew exactly what the xenomorph was and about face hugging. [/i] Ash could also say that even if he himself didn't know about the alien. Just saying... [i]Also their is a scene where ash switches of a monitor just as the derelict comes into view as if he didn't anyone else to see it and it also seems as if he recognised as in:' finally - there she is".[/i] I don't recall him doing that. I do recall him going over to another bank of monitors, hoping for better reception.

Hercules Point taken. See I don t have copies of the movies. I work purely from memory. So when I quote its almost always not exactly right. I think it was from the director's cut that I saw ash switch of a monitor. Or was it from the script ? See that's my problem. I know I have seen/read that somewhere. Ash's statement that "you have my sympathies, you have no concept of what you are dealing with" should at the very least indicate WY knew what a xenomorph was. It makes no sense that ash would say that and WY didn't know about it. That's all I wanted to convey but i respect your opinion !! OP Yes it would be nice if derelict crash was a future event because what will the plot of P3 be about anyway ? How WY discovered the signal and planned the nostromo to bring back a xeno ? I'd like to see in detail how they discovered that ship but I doubt that will happen in p3. Someone on this blog speculated that there might be a holographic recording on the derelict that shows what happened to sj that would be nice if it could be included. And how W and Y merged. And what technologies they might have gleaned in the process (from discovering the derelict and exploring it. Just a thought). Peace !!!!

oduodu: [i]Ash's statement that "you have my sympathies, you have no concept of what you are dealing with" should at the very least indicate WY knew what a xenomorph was.[/i] At most, not at least. Indulge me for a moment, please. Let's say that the Company did suspect that there was a deadly organism that wiped out the crew of the derelict, but [i]didn't know what exactly what it was[/i] and wanted someone to check it out. Ash's knowledge of what the alien was like would be the same as the crew of the [i]Nostromo[/i]. "You have my sympathies. (Yeah, I know the creature took Brett and Dallas and is doing God Knows What to them. It'll do the same to you, and there's nothing you can do about it.)". "You have no idea what you are dealing with. (Neither do I nor do the dumbasses back at Weyland-Yutani headquarters. Who knows what else it's capable of?)". Again, I know it would be illegal to bring back a potentially dangerous lifeform, but if the Company knew what it was that killed off the derelict crew, they would have sent out a well-equipped expedition and still claim that finding the alien and having it onboard was an accident. Hell, they could have taken better precautions to contain it rather then having it run loose, killing off everyone and posing a danger to the boarding party and others back home. Just sayin'... [i]That's all I wanted to convey but i respect your opinion !![/i] And I yours. :)

Hercules May I ask you a few questions regarding the alien universe ? I am not going to ask them if you feel you don't want to. So would it be ok ? I asked a few questions elsewhere but never got answered.

Please do, oduodu! ;)