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ANGEL OF DEATH

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aurorian

MemberOvomorphAug-17-2012 6:53 AM
In an admittedly optimistic attempt to grapple with possible Engineer belief systems, I have been looking at the significance of the ampule chamber, and its attendant iconography and totems, from a ritualistic, quasi-religious, viewpoint. By necessity this post is something of a theoretical mash-up relating to information and inferences gathered here, and from searches on the net. Therefore I’m not claiming credit for everything that follows; probably just the contradictions of certain ideas posted by others on this forum! It is not my intention to diminish or refute those observations/theories/assumptions/opinions; rather this is about offering up a lateral perspective for discussion. Unless, of course, all this has been said before. . . Then – oops! (sic). Either way, I hope this conjecture will be taken in the spirit it is given. And rather than write this up as an essay I will lay it out as succinctly as possible. (1a.) Holloway declares the ampule room to be a tomb. Therefore, let’s consider the ampule room to also be a Temple, and to treat the urns as more than a metaphor for sarcophagi; that they do in fact contain the remains of the dead [just as here on earth, whereupon ashes of the cremated are stored in urns and passed back to the family (to be scattered, buried (or kept…))]. (1b.) The urns contain vials of genetically modified xenomorph DNA surrounded by the distilled blood of dead Engineers, one urn per Engineer; hence the different sized urns (assuming Engineers vary in size and height). The Engineers believe the soul lives on, and is ‘in the blood’, and thus the prospect of new life is given when their blood is mixed with xenomorphic mutagen. (1c.) The Head is regarded as both a symbol of Engineering prowess and as a protector, and therefore oversees the souls of those whose bodies have perished. The urns are laid out in deliberate and ritualistic configuration, forming a circle about the Head, a shrine of veneration. Offered up as tokens of obeisance and respect, the urns could also be seen to be symbolically blessed by the Head when the ‘souls’ they represent are chosen to be ‘reborn’. (2a.) The alien mural is behind the Head, with an altar at its foot. What this bas-relief represents and conveys is both feared by the Engineers yet subservient to the Head. Whilst not mutually exclusive this could represent a dichotomy, or even a fallacy, that the Engineers are blind to as they strive to become the ‘new gods’. Specifically, the inference here is that to make a god, one must first be god - and to be god, one must first be made a god. It’s the chicken and egg paradox, and one that perhaps will serve as an ideological flaw to be examined throughout RS’s Promethian trilogy. The mural depicts images that offer differing interpretations, and I’ve been considering this one: (2b.) Azrael – The Angel of Death, Crowning Innocence, (in Islam) he takes the soul of every person and returns them to God, but only by God’s decree. (2c.) Azrael – The Avenging Angel (from Sikh scriptures), he is sent by God to kill and extract the souls of the unrepentant, delivering them to Hell. (2d.) Azrael resides in ‘The Third Heaven’ – abode of God and Angels. Also considered a lower level of Paradise, where Archangel Michael buries Adam (aged 930) to await the Resurrection of the Dead (Messianic Age / the Second Coming). Whichever of the above interpretations we might consider, the mural could very well be the embodiment of Azrael. “In order to create, one must first destroy,” and thus the Engineers conduct their experiments/research according to long-established, ritualistic orthodoxy and tenets, which includes the sacrifice of one who is unfaithful (in following tenets and beliefs) and unrepentant for their sins (alien abductionists, take heart*). The sinner (abductee) is taken to the altar (standing before Azrael) along with an urn. The contents of said urn are decanted, treated, and blended accordingly, and the victim is then made to imbibe the dark liquid. [Btw, this could be the reason RS exchanged a green crystal for the vessel we’ve all seen upon the altar. Further obfuscation.] Over time, the subject either dies but still becomes an incubator for new life, or transmogrifies into whatever creature/semblance of Engineer (SJ?), the Engineers hope to bring forth. The Engineers may also believe that Azrael will deliver to Hell the extricated soul of the sinner, dependent upon the perceived success or otherwise of the experiment, the purpose of which is to create a ‘new means of life’ for the soul of the ‘dead’ Engineer to enter. Old blood becomes new blood. The Engineers are not only trying to create xenomorphic weapons per se, but seeking immortality for themselves by transferring the soul (the id, the unique conscious/subconscious identity of the individual) from one life form to another. Material bodies wear out. Entropy is a universal law which cannot be defeated. But maybe the Engineers believe an individual’s soul could exist in perpetuity if the right genetic mechanism is found by which a viable means of transfer can take place. Success would mean Azrael has, metaphorically speaking, delivered this Engineer, body and soul, to the Third Heaven, to Paradise, to immortality. Addendum: (3.) The xeno mutagen (fire) was stolen by the Engineers from the Elders, regarding them as inferior and wanting to usurp them. They recognised that as well as creating xenomorphic weaponry, this dark liquid could be the key to their own immortality. The problem for the Engineers is that the catalyst for that transfer, xeno DNA, is extremely difficult to manipulate, control, and predict. And when control is lost, the Engineers are reminded of their own fallibility and weaknesses; that they are not matching up to the achievements of the Elders. Hence, why the Engineers have persisted with this endeavour through many ages. They cannot fail because that would be to admit they are lesser beings. (4.) The Promethian explorers open the door to the ampule chamber/Temple and thereby increase the ambient temperature and humidity; and removing their helmets allows human bacteria to be breathed into the atmosphere. This combination causes the distilled blood of dead Engineers to become ‘agitated’ as it responds to higher temperature and interaction with micro-bacterial life-forms. The agitation fractures the vials allowing blood to mix with xeno DNA, and the combined fluid leaks from the urns. The Engineers are protected by wearing their bio-suits when conducting ritual experimentation. I’m also going to suggest that those very same bio-suits protected them when handling Facehugger-containing Eggs (a la Derelict on LV426). (5.) *Human’s are the experiment that went wrong. And 2000 years ago we crossed a line that broke the camel’s back (phrase coining). What that line was, well, I have a theory (along with most everyone else, I’m sure). (6.) This post is long enough without considering David8; but briefly, David8 was (unnecessarily and unkindly) reminded by Weyland that he has no soul. At the end of the film he was also without body (his corporeal self could be regarded as ‘dead’). Will he embody a new form of life, become immortal? Only to find he is still without a soul and has been on a fools errand? How the metaphors abound . . . let alone the more visceral possibilities. . . As with most things Prometheus, I’m not in a position to say if any of the above is correct, or even that it is what I would prefer to believe. This is simply yet another attempt to make sense of what little we know, but within a context propelled by speculation of possible fundamental beliefs and spiritual ritualisation of Engineer culture; that this could be the precursor and paradigm of what has been presented to various human cultures down through the ages.
36 Replies

Custodian

MemberOvomorphAug-17-2012 7:03 AM
Wow, loads of intellect went into that.
2013 sci-fi horror novels 'Custodian' and 'Tandem' available from Amazon, B&N, iTunes etc...

Red Wolf

MemberOvomorphAug-17-2012 7:41 AM
Lemme see if I have this straight: the urns are tantamount to sacerd, containing Engineer blood and xeno DNA; they are kept in the BHR (Big Head Room) to be both watched over and blessed -- and then at some point they are loaded by the thousands into Juggernauts and dropped on civilizations as a means of annihilation? Hmmmmmmmm...... Well, I think you're onto something at least; I think the BHR is a sort of temple. A ritualistic way of "blessing" the urns BEFORE they become weapons of mass destruction (I mean it's POSSIBLE the Jugg's are cemetary's of sorts; I mean, the BHR only has so much room, but there's simply too much evidence -- both in the films and via interviews -- to consider the urns anything but weapons). Very interesting religious theories, however. But to me, the Engineers ARE the gods; they don't don't seem to "worship" anyone or anything -- but do seem to respect the xeno -- just as Ash did. Sidebar: I am intrigued by the scene when Weyland ostensibly dies, saying, "There's nothning..." Not by what Weyland says, but that David replies, "I know."

aurorian

MemberOvomorphAug-17-2012 7:55 AM
.

Red Wolf

MemberOvomorphAug-17-2012 8:09 AM
Though neither had time to see it through to fruition, Holloway & Fifield, who fell victim to the goo, certainly didn't appear to be metamorphing into anything desirable... And I took David's response to mean that he's aware there is no afterlife (though how can Weyland KNOW what there is if he's still alive?)...

aurorian

MemberOvomorphAug-17-2012 8:14 AM
.

Red Wolf

MemberOvomorphAug-17-2012 8:57 AM
You did. But you're aware this site often attempts to sift through conflicting ideas, etc. to get to the meat-n-batatas, right?

aurorian

MemberOvomorphAug-17-2012 9:08 AM
.

Red Wolf

MemberOvomorphAug-17-2012 10:04 AM
It is interesting to ponder these things... but the fact is that RS & Co. simply have not afforded us enough info to arrive at any truly reliable or accurate -- let alone difinitive -- answers. However, that never stopped Columbo!

Custodian

MemberOvomorphAug-17-2012 10:10 AM
I did notice all the jars were dissiimilar in size, hinting towards 'different' contents? Unified content per unit size? Gah, and other unanswered questions aplenty...
2013 sci-fi horror novels 'Custodian' and 'Tandem' available from Amazon, B&N, iTunes etc...

aurorian

MemberOvomorphAug-17-2012 10:27 AM
.

.

MemberOvomorphAug-17-2012 10:31 AM
I'm confused was this the same movie I watched?

Batchpool

MemberFacehuggerAug-17-2012 12:45 PM
@ Those with a sense of Humour. After my initial read through I am now convinced James Brown was an Elder, and that the Engineers have been pissing against the wind trying to put a decent brass section together ( intergalactic flute class not out of first grade yet). @ Those wishing to dictate canon, please feel free to treat anything I say as the meanderings of a lesser crested arse gibbon. @ The meat-n-batatas, here goes. To put quite simply blood forms a genetic soul and an evolutionary step into a possibly chaotic, yet mathematically predictable chain of probable outcomes. Earth could be viewed as a giant Petri dish where the results have not yet attained the outcomes sought by the Engineers. The unpredictable nature of the Xeno DNA is reflected in Alien Resurrection and also points to a telepathic connection in there as well. Not forgetting Ripley’s ability to detect the Queen and have recall of a previous existence. Could a kind of telepathic development be the key to success for the Engineers. The ability for David to examine the crews dreams may be a clue to this. Is there also something to be said of certain religious doctrine which forbids blood transfusion a clue as well? There are those who believe in that doctrine, of the belief that there is no afterlife. I regard the ampule room as a Shrine, as I feel that can give it a bit more scope. As to the true nature of the ampules, my verdict is still out on that. I do think the points raised have a lot of validity though.

Mala'kak

MemberOvomorphAug-17-2012 2:32 PM
Great ideas Aurorian. That was an excellent read. It definitely seems to function as a religious/spiritual center, as well as a sort of weapons facility like Janek said. The black goo/bioweapon is so engrained in their way of life that the weapons facilities have multiple purposes/meanings. They also seem to be places of worship and tombs, as Holloway says. Figuring out the significance of the layout of things is the hard part, but I think you're definitely on the right track. I think everyone in the movie was partially off on their theories about what was going on. Even David, because this Android has human feelings... and is basing his hypotheses/statements on his own human like feelings... When hypotheses are driven by feelings sometimes science can fall to the wayside because the observer chooses to keep searching for the answer they believe is there and selectively ignores evidence to the contrary. The archaeologists were more concerned about meeting the culture instead of doing actual science to analyze the culture. It should have been fairly obvious to the archaeologists that the Engineers had some form of religion, but things move too fast and they're too used to getting instant answers from science... the portable carbon dating machine does much of their job for them and is pretty much the only real archaeology minus a few of Holloway's comments about the temple that go ignored. It's like they trust in science too much to provide instant results, while not asking important archaeological questions. At the same time they blindly follow faith/ their own feelings and beliefs.

Red Wolf

MemberOvomorphAug-17-2012 4:10 PM
Had to really chuckle when I heard the supposedly dogged scientist say "It's what I choose to believe." HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! What kinda "scientist" would ever say such a thing? ANSWER: an out-of-work scientist, that's who.

David 1

MemberOvomorphAug-17-2012 4:25 PM
I only have one question: WHYYYYYYY????????
[b]Ask nothing from no one. Demand nothing from no one. Expect nothing from no one.[/b]

NCC 1701

Veteran MemberMemberOvomorphAug-17-2012 6:04 PM
wow ........

Major Noob

MemberOvomorphAug-17-2012 6:54 PM
@David 1: because Damon has chosen....TO TORMENT YOU

zzplural

MemberOvomorphAug-18-2012 12:49 AM
@aurorian: Some wonderful thinking going on there. Inspiring. @general choose to believe: Everyone chooses to believe, scientists included. Even employed scientists. I choose to believe that my body is mostly composed of oxygen by weight, even though I have never seen an oxygen atom with my own eyes. I choose to believe that my wife has never had an affair. I choose to believe that there is no such thing as a God. I choose to believe that people should be free to make their own choices on matters of religious faith. Others may disagree. And that's the point: they have a choice.
The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile but that it is indifferent

Batchpool

MemberFacehuggerAug-18-2012 12:57 AM
Because we can.

Red Wolf

MemberOvomorphAug-18-2012 8:32 AM
@ZZTop: You choose to believe your wife has never had an affair because she's never given you a reason to think otherwise, no? If she has -- and you ignore it -- then you're simply a fool. People are indeed free to make religious choices; they are free to make all sorts of choices. However, scientists -- especially scientists who are studying the origins of man (which necessarily includes God) -- are SUPPOSED to base their beliefs on data (which of course is why you believe your body is mostly composed of oxygen by weight, even though you have never seen an oxygen atom with my own eyes). Last time I checked there is absolutely NO empirical data that there is a God, yet Shaw "chooses to believe" there is. That is called faith -- and is likely the prime reason, as Vickers so smarmily points out in Prometheus, she and Holloway didn't raise the trillion dollars themselves.

Ruhaniya

Veteran MemberMemberOvomorphAug-18-2012 3:31 PM
@ Aurorian: Interesting ideas you got there. Like how weed tied in the angel of death Azrael with the Engineers spiritual belief system based from what we have in the DVD of your soul . Certainly they must have a concept of God, death angels/Demons and Heaven and Hell(Afterlife Destiny)...kind of makes sense but I think that a super race of beings who are attempting to defied death through technology might be an explanation. Their God-like advances through technology allow them to mock death (Space Cobras don't die) on the earthly level for all things must die they have a master. Each Temple was an image of a giant death statue but inside was a terraformed habitat which is full of the same things they put in a hot dog (Mystery). Weyland was right about the engineers fountain of youth but was not entitled to it. He most likely was asking the wrong question from the wrong entity anyway.

zzplural

MemberOvomorphAug-18-2012 4:02 PM
@Red Wolf: Slightly O/T but... [i]"You choose to believe your wife has never had an affair because she's never given you a reason to think otherwise"[/i] You are so very very wrong in making an assertion like that. I choose to believe my wife has never had an affair because I love her and trust her. [i]"scientists who are studying the origins of man... are SUPPOSED to base their beliefs on data"[/i] Which is exactly what Shaw did. You do remember those paintings on the wall, don't you? [i]"Last time I checked there is absolutely NO empirical data that there is a God"[/i] It's really not worth arguing this one because it's been debated a billion times already. But it's worth stating that there are countless scientists who do believe in God.
The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile but that it is indifferent

David 1

MemberOvomorphAug-18-2012 5:00 PM
M Noob: Yeah... there is always one of those running around. lolol
[b]Ask nothing from no one. Demand nothing from no one. Expect nothing from no one.[/b]

Red Wolf

MemberOvomorphAug-18-2012 5:42 PM
ZZ: Your loving/trusting your wife does not make it so that she is not cheating on you any more than Shaw's belief in a God makes the God a reality. And while there may be thousands of scientists who believe in or that there is a God, NONE of them are basing that belief on science (which is why God's existence iss till debated: THERE IS NO PROFF ONE EXISTS). Further, I'm not sure what paintings on the cave walls has to do in re Shaw basing her beliefs on science? In other words, those painting do not even HINT at the existence of a God -- and if they did she emphatically states to Weyland that she/they "were so wrong." Her conclusion that the Engineers were NOT God should have changed her belief in the existence of one -- but it doesn't. Just like seeing your wife out for a drink with another man may get you to re-think your belief that she is not having an affair. And if she denies she was out with another man for a drink -- after you've seen her with your own eyes, it's time to start moving your money.

cg18

MemberOvomorphAug-18-2012 6:34 PM
First post here, long time reader. @aurorian, i really like your ideas and how do you develop this theory. We need to wait until the Blue Ray/DVD is out and listen RS comments to really understand the motivations and consequences of the characters of the movie, specially David and the Engineers. Salud!

aurorian

MemberOvomorphAug-19-2012 8:19 AM
.

zzplural

MemberOvomorphAug-19-2012 5:03 AM
@Red Wolf: [i]"Your loving/trusting your wife does not make it so that she is not cheating on you any more than Shaw's belief in a God makes the God a reality."[/i] Indeed that is true, but that has nothing to do with the fact that in the absence of evidence one way or the other, I have a choice as to what I believe. It's more of a moral question than a scientific one, actually. I'm reminded of an episode of [i]Kung Fu[/i] that I saw many years ago. Someone did something bad to Grasshopper and his friend. When asked what he should learn from the incident, the friend replied that you should never trust anyone. He was duly instructed to leave the temple and never return. Quite right, too. [i]"And while there may be thousands of scientists who believe in or that there is a God, NONE of them are basing that belief on science (which is why God's existence iss till debated: THERE IS NO PROFF ONE EXISTS)."[/i] Indeed, but neither is there proof that a God does not exist. I'm afraid you're not going to find an answer to this particular conundrum on this forum. [i]"I'm not sure what paintings on the cave walls has to do in re Shaw basing her beliefs on science? In other words, those painting do not even HINT at the existence of a God..."[/i] They don't. When Shaw said "It's what I choose to believe", it was in response to a question about what she believed to be our creators - the Engineers. As it happens, developments later in the movie provide strong scientific evidence that this particular theory has legs.
The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile but that it is indifferent

Hercules

MemberOvomorphAug-19-2012 9:08 AM
[i]Indeed that is true, but that has nothing to do with the fact that in the absence of evidence one way or the other, I have a choice as to what I believe. It's more of a moral question than a scientific one, actually.[/i] I don't know about you, but in the absence of evidence for something I wouldn't choose to believe in it. If there is as much evidence for something as there is against it, I would choose the default and wait for whatever it is to present itself. When you choose to believe in something, you should also ask yourself why you don't believe in other things that have equal evidence for their existence (fairies, unicorns, etc.). [i]Indeed, but neither is there proof that a God does not exist. I'm afraid you're not going to find an answer to this particular conundrum on this forum.[/i] Ah, the Negative Proof fallacy. Let's say you want to promote the idea that there are planets out there with cavemen riding dinosaurs with laser weaponry. It's illogical to say, "There are cavemen riding dinosaurs with laser weaponry on other planets. Prove this wrong." How would you expect us to prove that wrong? We can't just go out and explore every single planet in existence and cross them off the list. The burden of proof is on you. You have to come forth with some evidence by telling us which planet it is, how you had observed this, how we can observe this, and so on. If you tell people that by spreading their arms they can fly and they are willing to stand on a roof with you, it's up to you to jump first.

zzplural

MemberOvomorphAug-19-2012 10:43 AM
@Hercules: [i]"I don't know about you, but in the absence of evidence for something I wouldn't choose to believe in it"[/i] There's no evidence that you will make it through tomorrow, but I'm willing to bet that you choose to believe you will live to see another day. More people than not believe in a God in some form or another. I'm not saying I agree with their point of view, but they have a perfectly valid right to choose their belief, despite scientific evidence. [i]God argument[/i] I didn't raise this and I've already pointed out you're not going to get any meaningful answers on this forum about this. [i]The burden of proof is on you. You have to come forth with some evidence by telling us which planet it is, how you had observed this, how we can observe this, and so on. If you tell people that by spreading their arms they can fly and they are willing to stand on a roof with you, it's up to you to jump first.[/i] Shaw, Holloway, Weyland et al found the planet (it was stated as being the only system in the Galaxy that matches the prehistoric paintings). They formed a theory and went to the planet in order to verify it. That, in fact, is the scientific method, pure and simple.
The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile but that it is indifferent

Hercules

MemberOvomorphAug-20-2012 8:14 AM
[i]There's no evidence that you will make it through tomorrow, but I'm willing to bet that you choose to believe you will live to see another day. More people than not believe in a God in some form or another. I'm not saying I agree with their point of view, but they have a perfectly valid right to choose their belief, despite scientific evidence.[/i] But I have probability on my side. Since I have made it thus far, the odds are in my favor that I will make it through tomorrow more than the odds of God putting in an appearance. [i]I didn't raise this and I've already pointed out you're not going to get any meaningful answers on this forum about this.[/i] How could you point it out without mentioning it? [i]Shaw, Holloway, Weyland et al found the planet (it was stated as being the only system in the Galaxy that matches the prehistoric paintings). They formed a theory and went to the planet in order to verify it. That, in fact, is the scientific method, pure and simple.[/i] Nobody said that they didn't do this.
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