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wey-out-there
MemberOvomorphAug-18-2012 11:18 AMJust saw it. Loved the film. Not a horror film, but had horror elements. This was a film about faith, and what happens when you lose it.
Shaw keeps her faith, and in the end is the only person to ask the right questions to the Engineer. She struggles with her faith, but eventually understands what is important to her. She lives.
Holloway is interesting. But he loses his faith at the halfway point, and unwittingly sells his soul. David even asks permission to poison him, to which Charlie, not understanding, says yes. He finds his faith again, but the black liquid is changing him into something inhuman. Holloway's faith is in Humanity. Therefore, to be something else violates his faith.
Vickers has no faith, period. She is spiteful, vengeful, and desperate. She hates her father, and in an attempt to survive, seals her fate. (We sometimes meet our end on the path we take to avoid it.)
David is a machine and cannot understand faith. He isn't killed, but is torn apart.
David is innocent, a slave to Weyland.
Weyland has no faith, and is afraid of death. He believes there is nothing after death, and is the antithesis to Shaw's father. He has no faith in his daughter, so he creates a son in her image (this is psychologically fun to dig into, maybe another post.)
Fifield has no faith. He is fearful, angry, and selfish. He is transformed and dies. Milburn is fearful and weak. He is easily led astray. He dies horribly.
Ford: Caught in the middle. Faithless? Perhaps.
The pilots, Janek, Chance, and Ravel, commit self sacrifice. It is the ultimate display of faith.
Even the Engineers lose their faith. They lost their faith in humanity, apparently, and in their attempt to destroy us, the Engineers on LV-223 are killed off by their own weapons.
It continues themes from Alien about perfection, creation, and destruction. Pure sexuality (that stems from love or the simplicity of human emotion) versus perverse sexuality (rape). The Shaw and Holloway love scene seems pure, but it is turned on its head into perversion because of Weyland. In essence, Shaw is raped by Weyland and impregnated with the demon spawn of his intention. Milburn is raped by the Hammerpede. The Engineer is raped by the Trilobite. Janek and Vickers have fun...supposedly. The sexuality in Prometheus isn't as pronounced as in Alien, but it is there.
The black liquid is an interesting symbol. Are there two different liquids? The liquid, when it comes into contact with humans, brings out what's in the dark parts of our souls. Fifield is monstrous. Holloway has enough humanity and faith to know he's becoming something bad.
As for the Deacon...the personification of all the negative themes in Prometheus. It's the Engineer's son. The monster of a being without faith.
In the end, its all about keeping the faith. In a way, Scott isn't asking people to really answer the questions. He is asking us to have faith. If we keep it, things will turn out ok.
17 Replies

Necronom 4
MemberNeomorphAug-18-2012 11:39 AMDid i miss something, on the 3 occassions that i saw the Film? I thought Holloway didn't have Faith, i'm sure he started off as an Athiest and continued to be throughout the Film? Didn't he view the descovery of Mankinds creation by Aliens as more of a Scientific reality, rather than faith in an Unknown, Eternal Spirit in the Sky thing?
The poster was good though!

Necronom 4
MemberNeomorphAug-18-2012 11:47 AMAlso, one of the biggest problems with Faith is that you never get the answers to the Questions, but only in your imagination. I think what Ridley is really trying to put across, is that Religion is BAD! Shaw still suffers BTW! She goes through a terrible time! She might be the only Human Bean to be standing at the End, but she will continue to suffer! I mean, is Life really better than Death? Nobody knows! I think Ian Curtis, from Joy Division explains it better in Transmission! Listen to the first Verse AFTER the "Radio, live transmission" Part. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UCDjD5a8PM
The poster was good though!

Major Noob
MemberOvomorphAug-18-2012 12:30 PM wey-out-there: Great to see you enjoyed it! I think you're correct in your perceptions and summed the story up nicely. Faith is blind, to have it you have to make yourself vulnerable, and for that we are sometimes punished. It's among the things that make us unique, and fallible. I think the message is that we as a race are a bunch of stoops. And perhaps that with sentience this is inevitable?
necronom4: Holloway had faith in his beliefs, which manifested themselves with arrogance, and zealotry. His religion if nothing else was himself.

djamelameziane
MemberFacehuggerAug-18-2012 3:15 PMHmmm yes well I havnt got time to go into all spoken here but I think is it useful to answer one thing @necronom Ridley doesnt like many aspects of religions on earth and rightly so in my eyes but I think he made a big point in kingdom of heaven when a knight says :
"I put no stock in religion. By the word religion I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called the will of God. I've seen too much religion in the eyes of too many murderers. Holiness is in right action, and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves, and goodness. What God desires is here [points to Balian's head] and here [points to Balian's heart] and what you decide to do every day you will be a good man...or not."
And even though I do not rate the whole film as such that bit is very good and true for me too and I think is Ridleys stance on the subject. Holiness is very different to religion but I feel is at the heart of all religions before they got twisted for the benefits of the few in power at the time of it changing (who changed it as such).
"It's almost as if they are making it up as they go along" :D

Necronom 4
MemberNeomorphAug-18-2012 3:37 PM@ djamelameziane. So what is Holiness? I'm Agnostic but i have Faith in myself, decent people and Science! Holiness, to me, means Pure. But "Pure" in what way? Maybe in the Days when Religion was Dominant "Pure" meant, uncorrupted? But uncorrupted by what?
The way most people live their lives, in the Religious perspective, is Un-Pure!
To have Faith, you have to believe, blindly, in something that you have no poof of!
So what do you think Holiness is? Pure? If so, what do you think Pure is? A Robot maybe?
The only good thing Religion as given us is Imagination! BUT there is a flip side to that Coin! Things like the H Bomb!
The poster was good though!

Necronom 4
MemberNeomorphAug-18-2012 4:27 PM@Wey-Out-There. Sorry for gettin deep! I'm glad you enjoyed the Film also!
The poster was good though!

David 1
MemberOvomorphAug-18-2012 4:52 PMcool, though somewhat misleaded. Glad you enjoyed the movie.
[b]Ask nothing from no one. Demand nothing from no one. Expect nothing from no one.[/b]

fader
MemberOvomorphAug-18-2012 6:04 PM@ Wey-Out-There, great perspective and post. Actually it’s nice once again to read a new person’s thoughts on their first viewing. My thoughts lately is that Ridley Scott has been pushing his personal religion beliefs onto his past few movies, starting w/Kingdom of Heaven, Robin-Hood and now Prometheus. As I get older I seem to cling onto my faith little bit more each day and I’m 20 years younger than RS. Perhaps RS is at now of 75 years old and has started to see the writing on the wall so to speak and is trying to get right w/the big guy above. But that’s my opinion and once again nice write-up
Fader
I should reach the frontier in about 6 weeks. With a little luck, the network will pick me up. This is Ripley, last survivor of the Nostromo....
SubsumeYou
MemberOvomorphAug-18-2012 6:45 PM'Their attempts to kill us fails.' That was just an incident, OP, no more, no less.

djamelameziane
MemberFacehuggerAug-19-2012 3:14 PM@necronom Yes so I like I was saying I reckon ridleys angle is that holiness is what all religions were based on originally and occasionally are it as such and it kind of comes from the basics of life and 'goodness' but is much more complex than that of course.
And yes pure is another intersting concept in this series to quote ash from alien: " I admire its purity. A survivor... unclouded by conscience, remorse, or delusions of morality." talking about the Xeno there it could well be that in prometheus 2 we see more about the xeno being this perfect pure being or the attempt of one - the what is 101112 site hints at the thus spoke zarathustra and ideas of the super beings being what we are heading for all tie in but we need to see whats next I guess...but some things are linking up...
"It's almost as if they are making it up as they go along" :D

wey-out-there
MemberOvomorphAug-18-2012 8:52 PM@necronom 4
Depth is always appreciated, and I am glad this has you thinking and talking.
Everyone has been engaging in a great debate here. It's wonderful.
Concerning Holloway: His faith is in humanity. When he discovers the Engineers are basically human, he is snapped back from despair. The characters don't have to believe in the same thing, only to believe in something. Not necessarily religious, but something. Perhaps even if that something is destructive.
Thinking back to the film, another theme is that faith is not supposed to give answers, only provide a path. The path is up to you: Religion? Humanity? The answers may or may not come.
Mr. Scott has also discussed purity as well. In Alien, it was the xenomorph. In Prometheus, it was perhaps David and the black liquid. Purity in this definition doesn't choose sides of good or evil. It is an interested take on the concept of purity, and one that actually challenges our beliefs on what it is to be pure.
Good and evil don't factor in to it. It's pure. It actually challenges the faith of both the characters (such as Parker in Alien) and the audience.
But I find that purity means, in this way, totality. Complete, total, and infinite in the actions of an individual.
(On a side note, we can look at purity as being good, clean, or free from pollutants. What a polllutant is depends on the individual.)
The concept of suffering in this film is used to challenge faith. Shaw suffers, but through her suffering she finds the determination to continue. Is that wise? We shall see. But suffering has been a part of human philosophy for a very long time. Some would say it is the corner-stone of human history.
This is why I love Prometheus. It's a smart, deep film that allows the audience to actually think about what was seen on the screen.
Thanks to everyone for the lively discussion, and all points of view a greatly welcomed. Keep them coming.

Necronom 4
MemberNeomorphAug-18-2012 8:59 PM@Wey-out-there. I see what you mean! I think Purity is one of the main themes in the Film, maybe THE main theme? And that takes me back to David8, who, is the only one of them who is truley Pure, in my opinion! Which takes me back to my earlier Thread "A Robot God?"
@ Fader. Ridley said, in an interview, around the time Prometheus was released, something like, Religion is a Bad thing, that it stops people of different faiths coming together and being friends. Also, that the Engineers are "Dark Angles".
The poster was good though!

zzplural
MemberOvomorphAug-19-2012 5:13 AM@Necromon 4:
[i]"I thought Holloway didn't have Faith, i'm sure he started off as an Athiest and continued to be throughout the Film?'[/i]
He must have had some kind of faith, at least at one time in his life, because he was sporting a crucifix tattoo on his arm.
The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile but that it is indifferent

Custodian
MemberOvomorphAug-30-2012 5:30 AMAs Necro4 already pointed out - Holloway is FAITH-less, by his own definition; he wants to DESTROY gods.
Pointed out again, for fun.
2013 sci-fi horror novels 'Custodian' and 'Tandem' available from Amazon, B&N, iTunes etc...
Calpamos
MemberOvomorphSep-04-2012 6:16 PMNot sure. I think he found faith in the end, hinted at by his hands out in a crucifix position. The good of this movie sacrificed themselves or at least were willing to.
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