PROMETHEUS: Ultimately a failure as an ALIEN Universe film.

@Freeplanet yet again i couldnt agree with you more, while i personally enjoyed prometheus i was still dissapointed with the fact that the elephantine jockey idea wasnt used and instead we god tall bald muscular white men instead. Personally i would have preffered that prometheus had no link to alien and to me it seemed a pretty good enough film in itself , and there was no need for an alien relation. Now what i would have wanted from the space jockeys were them to be tall elephantine giants, who had no human contact , did not create humans nor did they have a creator. They should remain creepy and mysterious as well as have the ability of telepathic communication this way whatever the jokeys "whisper" to your head it'll be sure to make you go insane as we can expect their voices to be unearthly. that for me is what a jockey should have been.

The end of the day its going to be each to their own. I was originally disappointed, but then most of that was purely because of the Hype that was carried by the Original Alien, the whole story in that this movie would have touched upon the Space Jockey and maybe some Xeno links. The Original and Blade Runner are such classics, that well like with Star Wars EP4-6 any prequels are going to be up against it from the start. Looking at the plot i agree it is so interesting and gives such a great scope for a new franchise... I mean another movie about Xenos would have to be done VERY VERY WELL for it to even contend with not being a disappointment... Dont forget after the AVPs and last Alien Movie kind of damaged to some the Franchise. And none Alien Fanboys would just seen Prometheus as OH NO NOT ANOTHER ALIEN MOVIE.... And i think thats one reason for Ridley and Fox to tone down the concept and aim of the movie. As it is i think it opens up a massive potential, and i know understand the whole scope of the tale and connection with Engineers in our creation and links with Ancient Astronaut theories in that the many Gods in ancient civilizations where actually just how we interpreted a advanced Humanoid Race who visited and created us. And hence why the Space Jockey was then designed as a Humanoid to fit in with the movie and tale they are trying to tell.

Here are my concerns over the movie... well was. [b]The Scope and Potential.[/b] The movies scope was so vast that i sadly felt that the movie really needed to be either 3 hours long, or indeed in two parts i.e Prometheus Pts 1+2 and thus Prometheus 2 would have to be called something else. [b]The flow of the movie.[/b] The movie seemed very rushed in some parts it seemed to flow ok until after Fifield Attack and then well it appeared as though the production staff had covered about half the movie but then realized they only had 30 min to fit the rest in. I complained that some scenes looked odd, never seemed to link together and it appeared as if someone had just randomly cut scenes out or down, but i put this down to Lindelofs style of writing. [b]HOWEVER[/b] It soon came to light that yes many scenes was cut short or cut out and that if these extra scenes was added then the movie would have flowed better. I do understand why some scenes was cut though. [b]Sacrificial Full Scene.[/b] As they wanted to keep the Elders and Engineers a little bit more of a mystery as Prometheus 2 is where they want to explore the race more. And the opening Scene with translated Dialog would have given more hints to why we was created. [b]Alternative Fifield concepts.[/b] As they carried more Xeno DNA and maybe also why we see so little of the Hammerpedes as Ridley wanted this movie to not be so much about the Xeno and wanted to savor the Xeno DNA mainly for Shaws Baby and then the Life Cycle it has from Baby to Deacon. [b]Full Engineer and David Conversation.[/b] Again this scene may had covered and answered some questions they want to answer in more detail in Prometheus 2. [b]Full Engineer vs Shaw Scene.[/b] As Shaw puts up a good fight and it somewhat diminishes the awe of the Engineer... However i some how think that Danny Devito would put up a good fight with a Axe against a unarmed Mike Tyson so i cant see why these Scene was cut. And there would be cuts due to Gore to get the movie to wider Box Office Audience and also there are some scenes cut that well i guess we can only gauge if they was good for the movie or not once we see them. But at the end of the day, this leaves open more sales for DVDs and also showing of a extended cut at the Box Office.

that's true, when i first heard ridley was changing his movie to a new original idea and that its an alien prequel no more i instantly thought that there would be no xenos or jokey relation nor would it take place in the alien universe which was good, then he added that the film will have strands of "alien DNA" then i thought alright maybe the movie might have the same look or feel like alien but still doesnt take place in the alien universe. but as soon as i heard that it would take place in the alien universe of course like any fan boy i was hyped but at the same time scared that they might mess it up.

Ultimately here are my only major disappointments now i seen the movie 3 times. 1) [b]LACK OF USE OF CHARACTERS...[/b] Ok we all knew the movie would be about Shaw and David who i feel was covered well and we knew Ford, Milburn were just fodder as with the unnamed other crew such as Mechanics and Mercs etc. And i feel Holloway and Janek was used correct, i just was so disapointed by the lack of use of Vickers and Weyland and Weyland Corp and its Board should had played a massive part in the movie.... I guess maybe they was both shooting other movies at the same time. 2) [b]CHARACTER USE AGAIN...[/b] I felt some Characters, well acted out of Character and non more so than Vickers, who came across as this cold, cool and ruthless business woman with her own Agenda and who played her Cards very close to her chest. So the whole Janek and Vickers scene was one of my least favorite, mainly as Vickers response well went against the Character that was set up for her. She should have said in response to Janeks "are you a robot" .... "well Captain i am off to have a shower and bed, and so looks like you will never find out" I also think that as this Heroic Character Janek who goes down with his Ship at the end, i felt the scene where he was not so interested in the safety and well being of two of the Crew left stranded lost and afraid in the Temple but more interested in hitting on Vickers was a little out of Character. 3) [b]LENGTH OF MOVIE AND SCOPE....[/b] Again i felt the movie needed to be like 3 hours to help keep the flow and give more detail and time for Characters. 4) [b]TONED DOWN XENO ASPECT...[/b] I loved the Xeno ish Fifield and i think that should had been used, and i also loved the Hammerpedes and would have wanted to had seen more from them. 5)[b] THE KILLINGS...[/b] They was lame, as i said above i would have loved to had seen the Xeno Fifield and more from the Hammerpedes and was disappointed at how many of the crew was actually killed by Fifield and the Engineer in what was best described as simply throwing them around like rag dolls. ULTIMATE DISAPPOINTMENT they was....

I'm sorry, you're trying to make an intellectual argument and then call something gay? What? And Prometheus is a film for kids? Yeah, that doesn't sound pretentious at all. Seriously, the film wasn't supposed to be a direct prequel. It's OK it wasn't a re-tread. I think most people accepted that, and it is a popular movie. Frankly, I enjoyed everything about it. I felt the script, which didn't spoon-feed everything to the audience, was excellent. Some people have unmeetable expectations though. If you're expectations were that it has to give you the exact same feeling when you watch Alien in every way, you didn't have the right the mindset going into this film, especially with everything Ridley said about it before it came out in theaters.

Not many movies are flawless and even Alien has its flaws and plot holes. Prometheus for me was not bad, and apart from the few problems that seem to now not be so bad as we get over the massive task that the movie had and that was to build upon or better Alien. This leaves a movie that is very underrated, some of the deleted scenes are coming now and they seem to give answers to why the movie never flowed. And these scenes address some of the plot holes in the movie.

The film doesn't have plot holes. It has things that are left ambiguous. but that's not the same thing. Using the criteria that Prometheus is criticized by some people, Alien is full of massive plot holes. Who is the Space Jockey? What happened to the ship? What are the eggs? How did the company know to send Ash with the crew? NONE of these are answered in the film. It forces the audience to think about things to unravel their answers. Prometheus works on the same level. So that's something I don't think has ever been a legitimate criticism of this film.

@BigDave, couldn't agree with you more. ALIEN definitely had plot holes, too. Let's all hope that the deleted/extra scenes for Prometheus will fill those that really matter. But judging it from what has leaked so far, this might well not be the case... Anyway, below now my initial response to this thread.

Hi all, and first of all thanks to [b]Neurion[/b] for opening another thread about reviewing this highly anticipated film, but in a more moderate tone and constructive fashion. And it's great to see that this also reflects in most of the comments I've seen here so far. This has always been a truly sophisticated and inspirational community, it still is, and hopefully has a long prosperous future ahead... What I'm about to say has most likely been said many times before, not just by me and not just in this thread, of course. Nevertheless, I'd like to contribute with my opinion and share my thoughts on this, which to begin with, have changed quite a bit from right after my first viewing until now. It really has been a bit of a journey in itself, but I will come to that later on. I first saw Prometheus in a midnight screening on June, the 8th in one of the biggest available IMAX 3D screens across Europe, in Waterloo, London. My expectations were extremely high, clearly based on all that I had seen and heard until that day, fed by a most nutritious and impressive viral campaign. Finally approaching the cinema, I could suddenly feel all the excitement and tension of that long built-up hype that I had experienced, starting from around early 2010 or so. Then, during the opening sequence I thought, oh my god, this is going to be epic beyond my wildest expectations! However, when leaving the cinema I felt empty, numb, disappointed and angry, to say the least. I asked myself: "Really? [b][i]THAT[/i][/b] was it? [b][i]This[/i][/b] is what I've desperately been waiting for since roughly 30 odd years?" Ok, I quickly realised that I had been spoiled by the marketing on an unimaginable scale, I just watched a fast-paced, littered with plot holes, but somehow still stretched-beyond-imagination trailer! They just squeezed in bits and pieces here and there to connect all those countless trailers we all watched endlessly, then to desperately end up with a running time of just over two hours. The only positive impression that was stuck with me at that point was the spotless visual beauty of the film. But that alone really wasn't good enough for me. Sitting on the night bus on my way home I desperately tried to recover as many positive things as possible, but those hiddeous characters such as Milburn, Fifield and yes, even Holloway came back to mind. Wouldn't someone like Peter Weyland with that entrepreneurial spirit and seemingly infinite financial resources have hand-picked the best available scientists? People who will take their mission most seriously plus having certian social qualities that are needed for a mission of this caliber? What a waste of time and budget on the film! That time could have been invested in a deeper character build-up of a far smaller crew altogether. I just wanted to get to know them better, share their passion for such a mind-blowing mission they've been so lucky to be part of! Having said that, I did feel however, that David's, Shaw's and Janek's characters were impressive from the start and just as great as the actors that had been cast for those roles. So there was hope after all... During the following two months I had much time to read through the avalanche of positive and negative threads and comments across the internet, plus having had time to think about and analyse my own emotions for the film from a growing distance, which really helped to improve my view on it. So just a few conclusions here: 1. Ridley/Lindelof never said that Prometheus will tie in directly with the ALIEN universe, but instead will follow two seperate threads, where one of which will eventually get even closer to the happenings in ALIEN and the other might drift even further away, to explore an entire new and exciting world. Furthermore, there were early indications that we will be treated with more than just one film. Well, he delivered all that and it actually worked for me. In a nutshell, Prometheus works for me as stand-alone, but just as well as being a distant cousin to the ALIEN saga. A young cousin, who still has many things to learn and plenty of time ahead to explore further. 2. It would have been great to have had more screen time allocated to really feel Shaw's hopelessness, followed by her breakdown, clearly caused by desolation and isolation after the Juggernaut's crash and her fight with the engineer, let alone losing her beloved partner Holloway and developing doubts in David's integrity. 3. I'd agree that the ending, showing the Deacon bursting out of the Engineer's chest, was forced and purely served as a crowd-pleaser. It didn't add anything for me, if not making it worse. However, I thought the ending up to that point was beautifully done, although still having felt slightly rushed. 4. Ridley is well known for his meticulous attention to detail, his ability and drive to deliver stunning and beautifully crafted imagery. Especially the scene of the ascending Juggernaut will stick with me forever, it was simply amazing! As I already said above, he most certainly delivered all that on a golden plate. So, those are just some observations I wanted to share here as I wasn't attempting to write a full review within this thread. Something I still haven't done, something I simply wasn't ready for. I'm glad that I haven't done one so soon, only days or weeks after my first viewing. Did I ever review ALIEN or Aliens in all those 30 or so years? No. And I feel like that only now I'd be ready to do so, having gained so much more understanding and passion for those two movies (each epic in their own way), mostly due the course of dissecting and understanding Prometheus. And since Prometheus is part of a series, a bigger story is still to be told. Therefore, I'll still hold back with a full review. Have yourself a rough count on how many times you've seen ALIEN and its sequels! [b]Now,[/b] about two weeks ago I saw Prometheus for the second time, on a smaller mezzanine sized screen at the Empire, London, that surprisingly still showed it, even in real3D. It was so much better than the first time 'round, I really enjoyed it and I'm glad I gave it a second chance! For all the above reasons it felt more fluent, made more sense as well I appreciated the high attention to detail even more. So I went from a rather disappointing 60/40 against it, over a quite balanced 50/50 inbetween, to a very welcoming 70/30 for the film, and the BluRay/DVD including all those extra's is still to come. So for me personally, it's happy days and I definitely look forward to the things on the horizon, including many more viewings of Prometheus!

"The film doesn't have plot holes" Ambiguity yes, but then you go on to say Alien has plot holes like the Eggs and Space Jockey but they are not plot holes they are Ambiguity. I am not talking about Prometheus plot holes as the Ambiguous elements, i was on about so many things that never added up. The all of a sudden outburst by the Engineer is a minor one, but more so are things such as how after Shaw had the Baby Squid removed, the next scene Weyland and Co never seemed bothered. And more so that this thing grew large in the Med Pod room but no one seemed to notice it. Others like how did the Engineer get from the Juggernaut to the Lifeboat so fast and with no Space Suit? Some remain plot holes, while others have not finally got some light shred on them thanks to the deleted scenes. You see you could take a Ambiguous movie and if you then start to edit and cut parts out you are then going to create such plot holes and thats what happened and what i am on about. For the record i give Prometheus a score of 7.5/10 and thats from a very critical person and thats actually Good as my Average would be 5, a 6 is above Average. Here is my ratings for some Sci Fi movies. Alien 9/10 .... Blade Runner 9/10.... Aliens 9/10...... Alien 3 7/10.... Alien Resurrection 6/10...... Predator 9/10 Predator 2..... 6.5/10 AVP 6.5/10...... AVPR...... 4.5/10 The Thing (82) 9/10....... The Thing 2012 6/10 So hopefully you can gauge my Prometheus 7.5 better.

@HAL 9000 Yes very very good point in (1) This movie and especially with the cuts, is to me not the Movie Ridley is wanting to tell a tale about or Alien. Prometheus seems to be a Trailer, it is a sample to introduce us to the Space Jockey/Engineer race which is where Ridley will be going in more detail with Prometheus 2 While it gives us subtle insight into some connection with Alien and the Xeno, this is done via the Urns and the Outpost on LV 223 and evidence of the fall of the Engineers on that outpost. This i feel is a area that will get addressed in maybe Prometheus 3 and one that will then connect some of the dots to Alien. Point (3) The whole Deacon was their idea to show and make a connection that something the Engineers also work with (Experiment/ Bio Weapon) leads eventually due to a series of events to a Organism that is very reminiscent of the original Xeno. That being Shaws Baby to eventually the Deacon. I dont think it was rushed as a fanboy pleaser.. Because well the process of Holloway infection to Shaws pregnancy and eventual C-Section are all a large plot of the movie. The outcome a Giant Squid Face Hugger, and they then went on to show that this organism has some connection to the Xeno, via the Black Substance Holloway had drank, to then go in to create a Deacon Chest Buster and ultimately give us the clues that the Engineer race dabbled with a substance that creates Organism that have Xeno traits and that via that series of events created a lifeform similar to the Xeno and thus making a connection to the Engineers and the Bio Weapon the Xeno.

@BigDave: You might be right there and as you know I agree with you that Ridley is about to tell us a much greater story where this was just the beginning of. But I got all that without the end 'Deacon' scene, it was fairly obvious to me all the way long, starting off with the murals, the Hammerpedes, then over Shaw's c-section, the big squid etc, etc... The fact that we saw different rooms and even bases with supposedly different genetic/molecular experiments where something backfired badly gave it all away, don't you think? I could have done without that scene at the end as I found the ending up to there rather good, although I was a bit pissed off at first since it had so obviously written 'Come back in two years to learn more' all over it. But as soon as it was clear that Scott wasn't gonna give us a 3 hour movie, I came to terms with it beforehand and was sort of expecting something like that anyway.

There many parallels regarding Star Beast-rewritten for Alien and Prometheus. My opinion of Prometheus being in the same universe as in Alien is spot on..... this morning I watched Alien w/RS commentary, also reviewed all the drawings/sketches/story-board sketches from all involved in the making of the Alien movie. I must say there are many, many parallels with Alien and Prometheus. Also I really liked RS commentary throughout the movie, especially when he mentioned several key items pertaining to the SJ potential story line. He mention that the Space Jockey is 26 feet tall btw, that in the future he wants to explore the SJ race, where they come from, and RS stated he would cover that in Alien 4 or 5. He stated that the derelict was a bomber, actually he said an aircraft carrier to be more exact. The cargo were bio-weapons in its cargo haul, lower level. There were 2 different drawings of pyramids in Alien, yet none were used in the movie of Alien, yet there are several in Prometheus. Holloway drinks champagne were as Brett is drinking beers down in engineering.... and this is just scratching the surface of both films.... RS calls it his prequel to Alien, but as I compare them, it is almost like watching a newer version of Alien in many ways... Corporate greed still exist, female hero’s, predictable deaths in both movies, 2 very cool ships, on and on.... So I can’t say I really like Alien w/o not saying I really like Prometheus, to me they are the same movie, just at different times and different character with pretty much the same ending.... both hero’s fly off...

@fader: So far so good, I guess it is very much intentional that there are so many parellels as it is in its widest sense part of the franchise. No surprise to me there! But aren't you forgetting about the major plot element that lies in the very nature of those two very different missions? One is intended and thoroughly planned, the other clearly an accident, at least to the crew (apart from Ash, I'd say). Unless most of the Prometheus' crew are lead to believe that they're on a scientific mission, but in fact some (Weyland/Vickers/David) already know precisely what they're about to discover. But I think that's pushing it a bit too much, I believe that is a story which will be told later in the sequel(s)...

In my opinion the film deserves to be placed in the Alien universe. More so then all of those AvP films that have come out recently. It was not a perfect film at all. But I did feel the vibe that I was being transported in to Ridleys and Gigers universe of macbre creatures and curious humans. The best is yet to come in my opinion. I also have no qualms when people say that they did not enjoy the film. Or that they were disapointed with the outcome. But like I just stated the best is yet to come.

I am just wondering ! Are the chairs in alien and Prometheus the same size ? The one one in prometheus looked smaller to me

I definitely believe that as bigdave says that Prometheus was made with a sequel in mind. And that xenomorphs are a (small) part of their culture that we finally begin to understand as the series progresses to p2 and p3.

Neurion My friend (or anyone else out there for that maTter) I genuinely respect your opinion ! May I humbly request: What would you consider an alien universe film to consist of and/or be before it would NOT fail as an alien universe film ? Not trying to be funny. I am really interested to know what anybody would consider( criteria wise) an alien universe film that hasn't failed as an alien universe film.

@oduodu me thinks that's a huge post he may not have 6 hours to put all that down :O