What was that ship in the very beggining? and did the human like alien know abou

@Nibiru-X; That giant Alien being at the beginning is the same race as the one at the end of the movie. They are called "Engineers", they came to Earth on that giant ship, it was theirs, and yes they knew about the Black liquid, they created it.

someone shouted TAXI and that arrived. :)

Pretty sure that there were elders on that big ship at the start and yes that was an engineer sacrificing himself to create life. This deleted scene is the reason I think there were elders on that ship: [img]http://thenexusnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Prometheus-2.jpg[/img] Although I heard they are redesigning the 'elders' thank god because they really should look much better than that for me! There were probably engineers on the big ship too though we dont really know all this for sure - we should find out more in part 2 :D ...

ok thanks, i was aware it was the same engineer as the ones they found but i was just taken aback because that ship doesnt look anything like the ones they were in at the end, so they were on our planet before? they created us? and they black liquid was to destroy any life they chose, they were hell a scared of it

I'm not sure if the engineer knew exactly what was going to happen to him at the beginning of the movie. After he drinks the liquid he seems to stop and breathe a sigh of relief as if what occured next was unexpected. I dunno, there are a lot of ambiguities in Prometheus and this is one of many. Was it a deliberate act of sacrifice or did the elders trick him i.e. convincing him it was a rite of passage? Please take this with a pinch of salt but I think it was the latter and that the Engineer at the beginning is an echo of Weyland - he asked the elders for more life/to become immortal and they granted him that wish. Unfortunately for him they were being a little bit abstract and he would live on as the seed for new life. When humans die we become "worm food" - our bodies get broken down for the next generation of life as we decompose so therefore THAT is the meaning of life...to become the seed for more life....whether through procreation, decomposition or as part of a food chain. Not exactly a revolution but it makes sense in the context of the movie. Weyland saying "there's nothing" before he died proves there is no higher purpose for us, although Davids cryptic response of "I know. Enjoy your journey Mr Weyland" certainly made me raise an eyebrow. What did he mean by that?

I reckon the engineer knew it for sure - the ship was leaveing as he drank it and he didnt batter an eyelid. He also look very focused and prepared for it all - if its the black goo then possibly he has he have an extremely focused and discipline mind to create life instead of turning into a zombie or worse! I mean think of it this way: the engineers are obviously highly intelligent - they are not going to be tricked so easily into drinking goo which they probably know what it does already no it all point to him know exactly what going to happen but it still bloody scarey and strange when it actually happens even to an engineer! And Weyland had no idea about the elders they have not come into this film yet - he only knew about the engineers. The there is nothing and I know bit didn't say much to me either apart from maybe him thinking that after your dead that's it - nothingness :S ...not sure how he gets to that as clearly the engineers were not 'god' in the Christian sense!

@dj: I agree. My guess is that the sacrificial Engineer knew perfectly well what was going to happen. He knew he was going to take a dive. His gasp was one of pain as the goo took effect. The big question for me is why was he so complicit in this course of action? I did notice that, although he looked good, his body was not actually a perfect specimen (some unhealthy-looking blue veins). Maybe his time was nearly up anyway. Or perhaps he went to his death willingly in a similar way to ancient Aztec sacrifices, where it was an honour to do so. Or maybe it's something far more mysterious like, for example, no one life being special, and the Engineer's "spirit" lives on in all the life that's created. @Druzilla: David's quote was actually "Have a good journey, Mister Weyland." It's just his way of saying cheerio. In his mind, there's a chance that an afterlife exists, and he's wishing his creator the best.

Redesigning the Elders...very interesting! It seems they are still unsure as to what the sequel will be...the most interesting thing I heard so far... That means debating the deleted scenes at this point is rapidly becoming mooth IF they really redesign them.... What that could accomplish? Maybe something refering to the real giant Space Jockey? Then the small (smaller than the original anyway, and RS meant the SJ to be true giants, and that fits more the religious links...true giants - Gods- creating the human-god giant breed but those were a bit smaller than their creators) engineer would be a true sacrifice for their masters. Or just another construct (made by the Elders) to spread life? So it would be more fitting for an advanced culture to act like that, instead of sacrificing one of themselves they employ a bio-tool...THAT is what I call fixing a jinxed plot! So here comes a way RS might employ to trully create more mistery around the SJ, and a possible explanation to the paintings as well (Now think of this...Replicants were rebeling in a sort of way against the way humans were using them after acquiring full sentience. On Prometheus the Elders created a very advanced bio-construct and used them for millions of years for their purposes, one of those being as vessels/starters for bio-seeding planets. They also created a very specialized cleaning tool - suppression weapon - army trooper (the Xenos) to control / supress / maintain order. Such a civilization after a given amount of time would / could create strife within itself, and like Replicants the sentient tools rebel against their situation and plot to fight against their masters. Sure they would copy their master's tech and they would surelly worship/fear the most dreading supressor/police force their masters employ...and would try to copy/create a counter weapon against it. Think what a multi million culture would imprint on their members after living under the siege/iron hand of such masters, and what such supression force would becme to all of them...something that would be sure target of worshiping/fear/respect...and not something empirical, but a real force over them all. They fight their Gods so to speak, and in their fight they try to call to their side the seeded races spread in the Galaxy, leaving messages to contact their nearest outposts whenever a given culture advances enough to make a difference...remember they are part of a multi-million years culture, so they already think in long terms ...then comes that outpost (there could be millions spread among the stars ) near Earth (hence the messages) and the tragic outbreak/attack against it. The last survivor runs and outlast his companions...and when he woke up...he finds their would-be (possible) allies at his ship (Hope!) and listens to one of them talking, even able to speak his language (smart, a possible powerful ally)...and despair and anger ensues, as he feels the one talking is not biological (smells weird? tactile heightened sensorium? ) and it is a tool created by the greedy old humans looking for immortality. They have become like their Masters, creating sentient tools to serve them! Rage ensues and he goes berserk! (Total despair against an uncaring universe) The scene where he seems gentle to David...like pittying those created like them, as tools, but yet a machine, so anger took place and he put David misery to an end (to his idea anyway) Of course that leaves the question as why targeting Earth for destruction...but even that is not really certain yet as the full extent of what David learned is not explained...but who knows, they might have seen human society evolving to something they distasted, going the way their hated masters went. Possible and could tie very well the whole movie so far... About the ship, millitary vessels would be different from civilian/research/seeder vessels, and we could not see it clearly (to heighten the sense of massiveness) so it could be at close range very organic. A shell like vessel instead of a bone looking one. (Shell - protecting - spreading life // Bone - weapon - maybe that was their idea...or not! XD) ...oh my, and here goes me triping into this billion old visit idea from a never changing multi million years culture...agh... But always fun to exercise the mind XD!

And thank you for that Voidhawk ... I like your theory very much. It makes sense especially the engineer's sudden anger: to me it was the most unexplainable scene in the movie. Why does Bob gets suddenly furious when hearing David's plea? At first he seems like pleased, kind and compassionate... Then hell breaks loose... The main issue with this movie is the fact that there is too much mysteries deliberately left unexplained. I don't mean being spoon fed à la Blade Runner first cut BUT i think i will never fully appreciate Prometheus in its theatrical version. AS always i'll prefer the full version (remember Blade Runner, The Two Towers, The Doors, Alien, Aliens). I also think that the deleted scenes should bring a real pace/rythm to the movie. Wait and see... And thanks for a great theory.

I meant "too MANY mysteries" of course...lol

Thinking about this concept and going further yet, it could even explain better the SJ from the first movie... That juggernaut found in Acheron was from the Masters, and the SJ there was a Master, carrying weapons to be used against the rebelling bio-tools (Engineers). Those eggs were fully biological, whereas we see thousands of metallic pods on the base we see in Prometheus. Different design, same base template. Lets imagine that they intercepted or sabotaged the Juggernaut at its point of origin (much like The Company did with the Nostromo, changing the science officer for Ash at Nostromo's last stop---remember that? I do!) to stop it when en course to its destination, hitting two tactical targets: Avoiding an attack to one of their groups, and also acquiring samples of their enemy army tools to develop further their counter weapon. A raw cargo of bioweapons was dengerous, as they could need an initial imprinting to work...one breaking loose without proper processing could kill even a Master. Of course if I were them I would create some kind of bio-lock to prevent them killing an Elder, but then again, as their bio-tools are very like them, that could pose a problem to use them to supress/control the engineers...hence no safe guard at least biologicaly speaking. Proper programing could do the trick. The ship wrecks there and they collect what they needed and left it there to rot, as it was a ship from their terrible masters...and the warning the pilot left was enough to calm down Central Command. An accident happened and that is that...the cargo way too dangerous to even think about any further actions, and they are a Galactic Culture...little concern that lonely moon and its deadly cargo would make... But that would be a trove of treasure to the rebels at that base (thus we connect the Juggernaut at Alien and this base) The research on a weapon against the powerful original enemy weapon went awry...they are trying to copy a technology not even they understand fully, but are desesperate to understand for the Cause! It is a deseperate cause and that make proper failsafe and proper care not applied, as they NEED to create a counter measure against their enemy. Size wise, Juggernauts from the Masters would be bigger, as the ones used by the rebels are copies made to suit them, not the Masters. They would use the same tech (logically) but would not be exactly the same, especially size wise. Makes sense and brings a bit of order to a seemingly really holed up plot... XD Now as for the multi-million culture...well...there was a marvellous exemple on how to work that in MACROSS...but this is another subject, and not applicable here it seems, IF the Elders are still around. MACROSS reasoning is sound science fiction and fits the bill to sustain a galactic group without change for millions of years.

I do not like double postings, but I will do it now just to stress one thing. If they could go the route I posted or something similar, that would also explain why the invitation to a barren weapon's research facility... Earth was not singular, but one of millions of seeded planets, and as a Galactic civilization, the Elders and the Engineers would be widespread. Once disruption and conflict arises within this civilization, millions of rebel outposts would be created, and thinking long term, they would try to enlist others to their cause, especially the seeded races spread among the stars, and in so doing they would try to invite them to their cause once they were capable of giving a hand, that is, when they could at least traverse the stars. Probably that weapon's research was the nearest to Earth, and our planet was within its sphere of action...so other planets could have such invitations to that given installation and would go there when ready. If that was the case we could have been the first ones of the seeded species to arrive, if their seeding age was done at the same time throughout the galaxy...remember that the paintings were from 35.000 years ago...maybe that was when that installation was founded and they started the phase of trying to call for future help among the planets with intelligent life on their theater of operations. That could make more plausible the invitation, and explain why those paintings spread in many cultures of Earth were pointing to an otherwise small operation installation (the Moon was a barren one...even though the base was big, and with a small fleet of battleships stationed there, it was a small outpost, maybe the only installation on that system (makes it harder to be found that way. The Galaxy is wide and small outposts well hidden would be hard to find. The pyramid was not that obvious from the distance and the Juggernaut bays were also very well hidden) That would make sense of the whole intervention/messages pointing to that otherwise barren moon.

Yes it would appear the Engineer knew that he was going to be Sacrificed. And there is a very important raised question to why cut the Engineer scenes. i thought as Prometheus 2 was going to visit the Home World where the Engineers came from, then too keep some Mystery for that movie they removed the Elder Engineer scene as thats who they will be showing in Prometheus 2 and they also deleted the Dialog with the Engineer because maybe this would give away more clues that they want to keep under wraps for Prometheus 2. Remember Shaw wants to go to where they came from and would want to know why we was created and why they wanted us destroyed. I liked the look of the Elders, likewise i liked the original concepts for Fifield, i just hope they dont drastically re-design the Elders like they did with Fifield as i never liked the Fifield they used in the Hanger Scene. I hope they keep the Elders, you see they could have the Elders as a higher power than the Engineers but still the Elders are not the supreme Masters. They do not have to replace the Elders with any other higher race, they can introduce a higher race but keep the Elders as they are and so we have 3 levels of Hierarchy. Supreme Beings... Gods. Elder Engineers.... Engineers.... But yes if they intend to change the Elders and make them something different then that would be good reason to remove the scene, but in doing this they would imply that the Elders are vastly more higher up the chain than the Engineers and to distance them more so, maybe they would feel and make the Engineers more a slave race and thus not want them to be able to talk. That would be a reason for removing all Engineer Dialog scenes. I hope thats not the case....

@Voidhawk Some interesting ideas, and although Ridley has said different what he says is not 100% Fact until any of the movies depicts what he says. Ridley said that the Space Jockey on LV 426 was a brother to the Engineers in this movie and that the Derelict in Alien is Bio Mech that has aged/died and the ones in Prometheus are as new. He said the Derelict had left LV 223 outpost to go to a unspecified place before one of the Cargo of Eggs got lose and infected the Pilot in which case he then set a course to land the Derelict on a near by moon and thus Quarantine the Bio Weapons and set off a Warning Beacon. However none of the above as been shown in the movie and so Ridley can change the above by explaining it within the Movie. Many was upset that the Engineers was not what they expected and also that we got no explanation as to the Xeno Origins etc. I hope Ridley sticks to the story and does not fall to pressure and have to go and change the story so that the Space Jockey are a different Elephant God Race and also God forbid that we see the Deacon become the Progenitor to the Xeno. But Voidhawk i do like the idea of the Engineers on LV 223 stealing the Eggs to re-weaponize and maybe the idea that the Space Jockey was heading to wipe out the Engineers on LV 223. I think its a nice idea. But i would like to keep the Space Jockey as Humanoid in the Space Suit idea, yes they could have some greater God who look totally different. As far as the Ship and Engineers at the beginning to me they never looked to have any Bio Mech Technology and this scene could be set many hundreds of Millions of years ago and so maybe they came across and developed the Bio Tech a long long time after.

Another thing is about the outpost... The Cave Painting was 35'000 years old, it was one of many Ancient Wall Paintings and Carvings that showed a link to the Star System a Star Map or as Shaw said a Invitation. Why give directions to a place that does not exist? This means LV 223 was up and running or in the process of being built 35'000 years ago, at least the plans to build it then was made. The Planetoid LV 223 looked like it was being Tera-formed, the Giant Head Statue a monument to either their creation (Man) or the creators (Engineers) Why do that if this place was intended purely as a Bio Weapon Facility and set as a trap.... Dont make sense... to me it would appear that maybe LV 223 was being set up for some other purpose, the movie was to be called Paradise and maybe thats just what LV 223 was. Until the Engineers realized that mankind had rebelled and it was not as subservient towards their creators and that mankind was behaving and doing things that displeased them. And after sending down emissaries to try and change our ways, they ended up coming to the conclusion that Mankind had to be destroyed. And it was then that they changed this Temple and Paradise for Mankind into a Weapons Facility and thus changed Paradise for us to Death.

BigDave, Yeas they still could keep the SJ from the first alien as wearing a suit, but the size would set that especific specimen as the Elders/Masters...still sound and explaining better diference and likenesses as well. As for the ship, I was rewatching that scene...yes there is plant life, but grasslike...I saw no forests...maybe moss? That would put the visit right before animal life came about...brrrr...around a billion years ago give or take...and the ship taking off, really seems like a shell of sorts. I need to wait the BluRay to try and see the scene better, but it "might" be really organic in appearance. especially while the engineer is melting, at a distance you see the ship vanishing into the clouds, its tip (it has a tip, it is not rounded...more like a shell indeed) up...nice cinematic sequence as well. As for the terraforming concept, I do not see it working here...a single outpost doing it (might be...as they are a multi-million years old culture)...and all that technology at their disposal, and in 35.000 years (or 33.000 if we follow the idea fully) only a single outpost would be there, and the planet would be as barren as it was. A lush paradise would not decay to that even in 2000 years, and it would be a lush place to be called Paradise, and after 35000 years of labor there). This title, Paradise, is a misleading thing I think, or a play with words, being that moon more like an entry post to Hell. Maybe we are giving too much attention to this title anyway. For a multi million year culture we are being a bit over thinking Earth would be that special to them...I much prefer to see it in another way, and we are one of multiple planets they seeded...so many human variants couild be found eventually (more like it, if they had a seeding program running a billion years ago) Again, the facility is a weapon research facility...or not? Thinking about it it could also be a terraforming facility preparing cargos of terraforming/biocleaning material to clean/terraform suitable planets, and one of those goot loose. But that route is not the case, we know it. RS says the ship in Alien was a millitary vessel. so they were on a conflict and the xenos are very likely to be a bioweapon...the diferences we notice could be explained by what I said earlier. I would make more sense. Following what we know RS said, and what we see, the facility they arived is some kind of millitary post, even if they mix millitary with religious cult (if we see that there are God like Masters yet unseen, they would be live gods to be worshiped by their minions/tools/slave races). So that moon was little more than a millitary outpost, but that again makes very hard to buy the idea they were leaving messages on Earth to find...a small millitary outpost! As we did not see more on that moon it was not meant to be anything else than what we saw, and it was a rather small base at that....suitable for something stealthy and secretive maybe? (more plausible into a scenario I posted...not that they will do like that anyway) The atmosphere thing is not that important as it might seem. They had tecnology to keep the base a livable place...and that is that. The derelict ship on Alien also had an oxigen atmosphere (something lost here guys...but it was there, it had atmosphere as well although Acheron did not have it, only gaining one in Aliens with the Weyland terraforming crew...that proves the Engineer tech is good...but does not make that outpost a terrforming base, nor makes the moon a terraforming world... The whole Prometheus hype can be misleading asw well, for maybe the most direct explanation for why this title on this movie is: Weyland wants to steal the secret of immortality from those that might have seeded life on Earth. That could be the only reason behind the movie title...and nothing else. All the religious raket might be really outweighted here...if we look into it any given plot can have allegories into religion and none could have real intention in the end... Prometheus wants to steal a secret from the Gods, and havoc ensues (Weyland wants to have the secret of life from the ones that created it on Earth...nothing more...nothing less)

@zzplural The thing I found intriguing about the Weyland death scene was the fact that he said "There's nothing" and David replies "I know." For him to then say "have a good journey" seems to contradict his initial response....

Hey! Does the deleted scenes with all those deleted lines right after the Engineer awakening, support exactly the concept I posted on this thread?! Weyland just proves himself to be a real greedy bastard and boasts the creation of David, a tool for his use and will...like the Masters dominating the Egineers created as their bio-tools? The engineer then seems warm to David, and then poof! Explodes into violence... I know the final ideas will surelly be way different than what I thought, but my, it is sweet to see how fitting to exactly that scenario those lines are...like done to be something exactly like I posted XD