I like the new flawed imperfect injurable Engineers...

Long movies are relatively rare these days. Not only because of the additional productions costs, but the modern cinema-going audience get wriggly bottoms when they have to stay put watching the likes of Avatar and Titanic, to give a couple of examples. There won't be an Exit Strategy for [i]Prometheus[/i]. But there will be a well thought out Continuation Strategy.

King I have a feeling fox feels the same way. To all As I understand It (read It some where don't ask for proof) there was a definite expectation from the movie watching public that the movie following alien would answer the question regarding the sj and derelict. Now all you alien universe experts : please help me : was it the case that there was a real expectation amongst alien fans that a sequel to alien would answer the sj/ derelict mystery ? Why on earth did Cameron not explore that ? If he was aware that there was a real expectation for answers about the sj / derelict then why not meet the demand of alien fans ? Was the mystery of the sj/ derelict such a big thing then as it is now ? If it was such a big thing why did Cameron never explore it ? Wouldn't more people have hone to watch aliens if that was explored (the mystery) ? So what I am really asking is : was fox aware in 1984/85 the huge expectation for solving the mystery or did James cameron just decide to his own thing ? Then why would fox destroy the basis of the success of the franchise : the sj/derelict mystery ? They might explore the mystery a bit I think but no definite answers will come . Freeplanet Excellent thread That last post of yours is gold. How does telling us about the ampules that turn people/ Creatures into hugger/ xenomorph tell me anything about the story of the engineers ?

ZZ, Exit Strategy/Continuation Strategy - I'm not totally convinced there is one - there's certainly (thus far) no indication that any of the Deleted Scenes will shed any light on the whys and the wherefores. As much as I HOPED they entered into this event with Eyes Wide Open - unless the Paradise (deleted scene) is a proper revelation. Anyway, back to the Cuddlier Engineer thread - one can NOW imagine slurping tea with him from bone china, ya know? Kissing him on both cheeks when he turns up at your gaff.

Well some are going to be upset at the movie... Some wanted to see Xenos or a definite explanation of how they came to be.... they would had been DISAPPOINTED. Some wanted to see the Space Jockey and who they was and expected some 18ft to 20ft Elephant looking Race whos skeletal remains was left on LV 426 they would leave DISAPPOINTED. Some would have wanted to see the Xeno re engineered in a way that ultimately goes to prove that Aliens etc never existed... they would leave a Little Disappointed.... Ridley had a wider vision the aim was never to CREATE A GOD RACE... it was to tell a story that linked the Space Jockey as being a Ancient Advanced Race who had a hand in our creation who Ultimately our people interpreted as Gods, and indeed the Engineers may have had us Worship them as GODs. But they are not no GOD not this Super Harry Potter that the Bible tells of and either would be the Elders or who ever created them. In many hundreds of years time i am sure Mankind would find ways to reduce the aging process, find ways to make the Human body immune to many diseases and cancers we have now. We would be able to mix gnomes and alter DNA and be able to create our own hybrid animals.. Want Furry Hedgehogs so be it, want Bears that are the size of Teddys so be it. Create a Hybrid Animal thats Half Cat and Half Cow so be it.... Create a Humanoid that has DNA and traits of a Dog, or make a hybrid Human and Ape. All these things Mankind could do in say 500 years while it may not be fact there is a very good chance we would, if not in 500 years certainly 2000 years. But does that mean we are Gods or even Godlike?

i could not think why the Engineers was cut? Ok i understand the opening scene because maybe as Shaw is going to look for where they came from she may come across the Engineers and their Elders and so best keep the Elders a Mystery. But why cut out the Engineer Dialog with David? When the scene to me makes him look even more awe inspiring than just some brain dead drone and thus more like a Cylon Centurion than David or Data. It makes him look menacing and it answers a lot to well the scene that well looked butchered, like you kids found the wedding video and ripped the tape up and so when you repaired parts had to be cut as they was damaged. You see the only reason for doing such a thing is if... 1) They want the Elders to look more God like more powerful and not frail. 2) They want the Engineers to come across simply as a created clone to use simply as a Tool for the greater agenda of the Elders and thus the Engineers basically do what ever the Elders tell them no questions asked, they are servants and soldiers who act just as robots would. But what does that do to any potential rebellion against the Elders plot if thats whats going on. Yes maybe the Engineers are just the Elders versions of David, but then why dont they have the free will that David would have and maybe more so if they rebelled. If the Engineers are now thus drones who do not have their own agenda, then surely the Elders wanted us dead, then how come the Elders have not bothered to check upon LV 223 or Earth having surely not heard how the mission went? I dont like it and if thats how they are going, and if thats because of the disappointment or how the Engineers did not have the impact they hopped be that what Fox boffins think or what some fans think, then by going for a U-Turn and Redesign well could be a complete balls up like Alien Resurrection did to Alien to Alien 3. We see the base has a form of written language the Engineers just understand, we see they understood David and we see the Hologram ones communicate verbally and speak but in a vague tone that we cant make it out. So surely going for the Last Engineer and his brothers being redesigned as well drones dont fit and will leave plot holes to how come the Ghost Engineers in the Control Room was communicating verbally. I hope the scenes was cut as follows. Some for Gore... which may be a few changes. Some because they want to explore in Prometheus 2 and may gave a Mystery away (Elders). Some because they needed to trim down the running time for theatrical release. Because lets face it, the 10 min extras that was shown on here they dont change much and must only be cut to trim movie run-time down and also the Engineer Talks scene seems likewise.

I honestly thought, Prometheus would have been better as a stand alone film not related to alien, when i first heard Ridley is ditching his alien prequel idea and is making an original film i actually though that hes making an entirely different movie set in a whole new and different universe but will have some "Alien" like themes / designs ,which i thought would have been a terrific idea. He could have avoided all the trouble and made something completely original with hr gigers influence just like how "Alien" was original at its time, but it seems now that its linked to alien , he left some fans disappointed and asking endless questions that we may or may not have the answers to, only time will tell.

I loved them too, I really am upset the deleted scenes were cut they completed the movie.

woah, seems like the TOO MANY REFERENCES TO ALIEN cobwebs really don't wanna let go, eh? It's not a prequel, honest. Right.... ;) I think (personally) Ridley or the writers SUCKED UP to the Alien crowd a little too faithfully. Maybe they just did it to FISH IN the Alien-fans, or maybe they really had 'no better ideas' than a simple series of 'visual cues and historical references' to a Franchise of films that bear no real relation to what Ridley (supposedly) wanted to say. Visual cues: the derelict lands on a planet the ampule/egg room the mural the engineer pilot's skin the deacon is alien queen-like the android is evil the strong woman the random body count here, kitty-kitty the overall structure revealed in piecemeal fashion, drip-feeding the obvious the mysterious prop - spacejockey in alien, bighead in prometheus it's like there's a format or template for making a succesful Ridley Scott sci-fi film - oh, and the cuts this director seems to REALLIY SUFFER FROM from the studio's greedy side, those fools and their profit. I still can't work out which race came first, chronologically, the Alien (in that xenomorphic facehugger form) or the Engineer (back-engineering spacejockey technology) Anyway, onwards...

i prefer that whatever happened in the derelict in alien always remain a mystery, and i don't want that mystery explored :)

Hold on, new Engineers? I've seen SOME new deleted scenes. But which ones show the Engineers as being more vulnerable? Do link. I'm the resident Engineer nut-swinger. I MUST SEE THIS!

i would rather the "engineer speaks" scene have been in the final cut of the film, but im very glad ridley cut out the "final battle" between shaw and the engineer. I agree with scott and his reasoning for its exclusion. We already know the engineers are flawed and mortal beings (look at the utter destruction that occurred on lv 223. also, look at humans (their creation)...the human experiment clearly turned out to be much more chaotic and unpredictable than what the engineers had probably initially designed). Thats enough vulnerability for the engineers in this film. I didnt like how shaw was swinging an ancient tool at the engineer and striking him with it nearly every time. I like the engineers as flawed and ultimately fallible, but very grand and very powerful beings. I think thats what we got in the final cut of the film. as far as the extended opening/sacrificial scene. Who knows...ill have to see it, but i imagine that i will be very ok with how the film was ultimately cut for two reasons. 1) the opening sacrificial sequence works BEAUTIFULLY as it is (fantastic scene). 2) i imagine we are going to see much more of the engineers and the social dynamics of their culture in the sequel. Im glad we are getting the extended version of these scenes as deleted scenes though. Im very fond of the theatrical cut of prometheus, but of course i like seeing all the little tidbits/process etc.

BigDave is exactly right. They are no more gods than the crew of Prometheus. Just more technologically advanced - perhaps not even that much more advanced.

well clearly the engineers are WAY more advanced than humans, but i agree, nothing in the film suggests that the engineers are, in fact, god(s).

No, I don't think that the engineers are WAY more advanced. COnsider these things - Interstellar travel, stasis, genetic manipulation - the creation of artificial intelligence. Actually, what do thy have over us other than size? I'd say they hadn't advanced significantly in millenia, perhaps millions of years. If they were seeding earth at the beginning, then I saw little in the way of advancement for such a long time. There is nothing that is beyond the ability to comprehend that might make them appear to be godlike.

Not at that stage of mans evolution - a thousand years earlier? Hell yes. But then we'd look like gods to man a thousand or so years ago too....

@karlo not gods. agreed. Their rate of development/technological advancement doesnt appear to be any more precocious than ours (possibly slower when you factor in their head start). agreed. i still think they appear to be way ahead of us though. I mean...they were seeding planets with life before we even came into existence. The events that transpired on LV 223 dont tell us enough about the engineers to assume they arent way in advance of us. Id be interested to see what their home planet(s) look like. I hope we get that opportunity in the sequel...though it appears there may be very little left on the aforesaid planet(s). Maybe we are just splitting hairs. I think we agree more than we disagree.

EVERYTHING in the Deleted Scenes suggests that the Engineers SHOULD BE SEEN as Gods. It's what the whole film comes to visit, The Gods. The theatrical release cut makes it look like The Gods are invinicible - well until one gets Cuddles'd. Sure, that sets up a frisson, at the end. And I HATED that 'deacon' scene, it seemed to 'tacked on' to appease the Alien-junkies. But in a cheesy plastic way. The Deleted Scenes replaced i.e. the 02:30:00 Restoration Cut maybe gave away TOO MANY SECRETS, showing the Engineers as fallible, pathetic, 'human' in their search for Gods' Fire. Their pilots/envoys have to fly in CRYO, ffs. Their 'dying?' race has to nudge some 'youngster' into a Suicidal Moment to propel their genes into the future. THE ENGINEERS are impotent, that was the BIG SHOCK of the 'scenes that were cut', that was the big revelation of the Restoration Cut. And the cuniform script and PIE language used by these 'wanderers' suggests that they've been on Earth as recently as 3000 BC, because SOMEBODY taught that stuff to early man. What I'm saying is, "They were tending their flock," through all the early Empirism (and slavery (and moral injustice)) of Babylonia etc. why should the crucifixion of one of their kind, when they're always eager to suicide one to fuel a planet, incur such inter-stellar retaliation? Why wouldn't they build a BOOBY TRAP into their genetic creations (Us) if they were that advanced, that God-like? For me, the Deleted Scenes show the Engineers as CHANCERS; playing with fire, literally. I'm saying THEY HAVE NO IDEA what they've started, and I don't direct this directly to the production team, but I still see no Exit Strategy for the release of Prometheus (if you get my drift).

[quote]THE ENGINEERS are impotent, that was the BIG SHOCK of the 'scenes that were cut', that was the big revelation of the Restoration Cut. [/quote] huh? what did i miss?

It's explained in the paragraph prior to that, [i]"The Deleted Scenes replaced i.e. the 02:30:00 Restoration Cut maybe gave away TOO MANY SECRETS, showing the Engineers as fallible, pathetic, 'human' in their search for Gods' Fire. Their pilots/envoys have to fly in CRYO, ffs. Their 'dying?' race has to nudge some 'youngster' into a Suicidal Moment to propel their genes into the future."[/i] Past their SELL BY date; extinct, in effect. Paradise will show ALL ENGINEERS as EXTINCT, otherwise, "Why didn't they come back during the last TWO THOUSAND YEARS?"

@FreePlanet They are not saying we was created by Gods the movie is saying that who we as mankind had persevered as Gods are not as Godlike but just a Advanced Race pretty much the same as the Ancient Astronauts theory. The older cultures Gods were not as powerful as the Bibles Super Harry Potter, the Titans no where near the force that the Abrahamic Religions God is. The Anunanki Gods are not as powerful as even the Titans, so its going for our interpretation of these early God Like Giant Humanoids who visited us, changing from being seen as they was to now well as with Allah and God who are now perseved as the one True God who is Truly Godlike. So we need to stop thinking that the story is trying to connect these Engineers with the Bibles Fairy Tale Tooth Fairy Harry Potter God who can create the universe in 6 days who is so powerful that well in a blink of a eye could wipe us all out etc. And consider that maybe the Anunanki Tale is a tale of how mankind interpreted a Ancient Advanced Race who seeded Earth.

Imagine if then yes the Race who created the Engineers are GOD And they are upset with us and commanded the Engineers to destroy us... why. If Ridley went for the idea that we was created by a Race of True Gods or a Race created by God to teach us stuff then wipe us out, then why are Humans around in the Alien Universe. If we was created by Gods and they wanted us dead, then we would be dead would we not.... Unless who we interpret as Gods are not Gods or that GOD is not even real, then yes that would explain while these pesky Humans are around. I mean take out GOD, he is so displeased with the un believers etc then how come he dont beam me up Scotty the Believers to Heaven or where ever, then destroy the Earth then hey it only took him 6 days before so whats another week to remake Earth then plant back the believers on Earth. Maybe he will one day, or maybe he dont exist. Prometheus is not trying to play the God is Real Game, it is trying to play the who we think are God/Gods are just a Ancient and Advanced Race who have flaws as they are not truly Immortal at all.

I've never really like the idea of Personality God(s) -- they don't make sense, they're too ANTHROPOMORPHISED, too petty/beardy. Ya know? We're just talking about more advanced races, we're not talking about ACTUAL GODS capable of making A Universe in six days (what a ridiculous fireside story that is anyways).

@ JoeyJoe - yes I think we're on the same wavelength - I just think that they have much more experience, and that's time to perfect - but the massive tech leaps made by man are astonishing and have happened in the blink of an eye. We're a threat and challenging the 'Gods'. @ FreePlanet - I think the whole premise is that we're all playing god, but the shock is that these supposed gods are as flawed and brutal as humanity. Not divine at all. They are literally our own reflection - a future one perhaps. The most humane/godlike of all was DAVID. I think it's a social commentary on the perils of where we're heading, and it's also commenting on the ridiculousness of religion/prayer and hope in heaven..or Paradise.

interesting mind you're driving there, karlosfunkster.

Errrm, thanks?! :-D

@FreePlanet Yes thats what i mean, that the idea is we was created by a advanced and ancient race and not by some Father Xmas Lookalike with a Magic Wand ;) And if you are a taller more advanced race and can do many create things that Ancient Man could not then they would perseave you as Gods.