the elephant in the room

I feel ya, but hey look at the bright side, maybe its best for our elephant jockeys to stay "unseen" else it could have been much worse :S but then again..

"Whip me," I say, "Whip me like I'm Yeshue ben Josef's lad," is this what we're expecting a truly galactic race embassador like the Engineers to have said in AD 0? Does this mean the early Engineers were masochists? or at least fatalists? literally wusses? or whipping boys? Hmm.....

its seems prometheus scarred you for life FreePlanet, I'm sorry :(

nah, I'm just have a 'creative' day. LOL

@FreePlanet...I would really like to know if for some insane reason you actually think for one second that all your pining and whining and crying about this will ever lead to your satisfaction? The spacesuit and Engineers is a way better concept than whatever you think should have been done. They redesigned it and change the concept because it's BETTER.

It's certainly more practical. I do hold out hope that the Ganesha thing is its own entity, and that we'll get some view of that in the future. It's too cool.

LOL. I knew what this one was going to be about before the page loaded. I agree with [i]engineering[/i]. Im very satisfied with the design and purpose of the engineers. @freee planet: i think you need to take a prometheus sabbatical. Sounds like you are slamming your head into the wall at this point. despite the incessant whinning, im beginning to feel for you and your plight. lol.

I disagree with the posts about the Engineers being satisfactory in a great deal. The original Space Jockey concept carried a lot of aliennes and mistery with it. The image, its size and the overall appearance of that dead alien was the true food for imagination, so much as to create all the myth around the Space Jockey. I m 100% sure that if it was a munified body of an engineer as we see in Prometheus and none of this would be taking place today, as such a cliche imaging would have gotten lost fast to the monster subject. It did not fade because of the image it carried, and the engineer concept as we see it now is cheap and cliche to a very huge degree. Even the aliens in Avatar are more original than these engineers...unless things are diferent in the sequel, which I greatly hope. Lets see, but rest assured that the present concept only carried something more because we tie it to the original SJ...but look at the controversy it created among fans and no fans... I am not a die hard fan of Alien, but a Die Hard fan of science fiction, and the originality and trademark of the original concepts laid in Alien were diminished to a degree with these engineers now presented...

Man, you're sympathetic to my cause, you're disrepective of my cause. I DON'T CARE. I just like pointing out the obvious, and getting another thread going. So sue me, I like the debate, and there IS still debate in this issue. Okay, we could WAIT for Prometheus 2 but it sounds like (from Sukkal's comments about the Scott Commentary, and others) Scott didn't seem to give a shit about the story and just made Prometheus look 'real perty'. And it did. But we want MORE THAN THAT, surely? You're with me, or you're complacent with the Lindelof-abortion, sorry Casearian. LOL at the mediocrity of the commercial world.

My hat goes off to Voidhawk, you simply couldn't have put it any batter way. Like he said, the space jockey is an alien, just like the original writers of aliens wanted, just as ridley scott ORIGINALLY wanted and so do fans. making them humanoid almost retcons ALIEN, the space jockeys and engineers imo should have been two different things, remember alien is what started this whole franchise and is the basis of the aliens universe. retconing the very original idea thatch sparked Prometheus tells us one thing, that Prometheus should be separate from alien. When i first saw the engineers the first thing i thought was "when was the last time i saw a human looking alien?" was it the old star trekk series with captain kirk? the days when aliens were humans painted in different colors instead of "now that's a space jockey" so to sum it up i think if ridley wanted to make a new sci-fi he could have made this story easily not linked to alien, because frankly by the looks of it deserves its own universe and franchise.

King, yup, and this Alien-prequel (that wasn't a prequel) why did it drop all sorts of alien references all through its feature? Can someone list them all, they're NUMEROUS and INSIDIOUS. I'll start, the derelict, the way it comes to rest on the planetary surface - direct reference to Alien. Do we think LINDELOF will ever admit he didn't care (or have any idea) what he was writing? Will SCOTT ever admit his job was to make 'something pretty'?

Dear Mister Planet - or may I call you Free? I am very very sorry that I made a story up that you didn't approve of in advance. I now realise the error of my ways and in future I'll resist the temptation to depart from the tried and trusted formula of scary monster hides in the shadows and mauls people to death. I offer my humble apologies that you weren't scared shitless and had to do a lot of thinking once you had stumbled out of the cinema. Again, I can only apologise, because in a moment of madness it occurred to me that broadening the scope of the story might prove to be interesting. Of course, I now realise this was a terrible mistake, and I'll be sure to consult you prior to work on any future projects. Yours, humbly, D.L.

Yer would of been better as a new film series nothing to do with alien so far but maybe with the next 2 parts it'll get better...I still prefer the idea that the aliens were evolved over billions of years on a very harsh planet full of other nasty shit...kind of an extreme biological advancement as apposed to us relying on technology to advance as such...who knows maybe it'll come into it still...

indeed http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKWgepGEZU8 this is the soundtrack from alien, but at the very beginning as well as some parts of the track you can hear the spooky warning sound of the derelict...

@zzplural aka Mr Lindy...Thank you, thank you, thank you. I guess Scott and co should have just rehashed the same old shit that everyone bitches about when they get it only to turn around and bitch about things being taken in a different direction. I guess this retarded shit is what "fans" wanted... [img]http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/ab345/zuckuss77/post%20pics/3-3-2009104811AM_zps733eba30.jpg[/img] If you want that, go read those totally awesome(that's sarcasm btw) comics from the nineties where they did exactly what you wanted them to. BTW...I love the fact that people compare the engineers to the idiotic aliens from Avatar. The engineers are humanoid for story purposes and damn good ones. They weren't made to look human for shits and giggles.

@engineering: +1 ...my sentiments exactly.

LOL good pic @engineering, undoubtedly emphasize your point :D

Yet, Lost are the mistery and the alienness the first Space Jockey conveyed...alll the originality on Giger's design.. The comics at least tried to get the imagery faithfully going according to what we saw and mesmerized us in Alien and even though those comics are now old story (and some were good, mind you...) they were a better SJ rendition than what was done with these "engineers" Some are reasoning size and all are ok even if different, but yet, fact is these engineers are not the Space Jockeys we really were expecting to see, and I was skeptical that they could really work those giants ok, and sadly I was right, and I felt to see what was done with the giant on that abandoned moon that so mesmerized me way past, in Alien. True, I would expect to see such depiction of like these engineers aliens in a Star Trek movie, which is not a bad thing per si, but falls to the cliche, old and cheap ways to depict aliens, which were done so due budget restrictions. Actually, eve being biotech, the engineer at the end reminded a Borg design somewhat... Engineer appearance/design is something from the 80's or 90's tv series, whereas the first Alien Space Jockey was something that stirred our minds for decades... I am among those who would prefer the comics depiction as to what was done in Prometheus, and something not necessary even if they wanted to make them th Gods from earth myths...go see some old deities imagery, like the dogons ceramics...those are more alien looking than these engineers... I really think that this was a poor choice in the movie, but then again... Like someone shooting The Mountains of Madness and portraying the Shoggots, or the Old Ones as some weird skinned giant humans...(Del Toro, please shoot the movie and do not go the cheap way!) Not necessary to the plot, and taking out a lot of the original SJ charm and mistery, sadly so...

The elephantine Space Jockey scenario is what the concept of Alien is all about. Remember that HR Giger (original set designer and creator of the Xenomorph in Alien) was greatly influenced by HP lovecraft. Who for those who do not know was a horror- space science fiction writer who made up his own myth. That myth was called the Chtutlo mythos. The mythos is about mankind trying to get to the bottom of his true origin. Which in the mythos describes mans creation as an accident which was made by a group of cosmic gods called the Old ones or the Elderones. The point is that in that universe HR Giger was flushed with that reading material which he then transfored to his work. All of this is very important to my point because it helps me back up my point that the Elepnantine Space Jockey is the only way to go. Just imagine viewing a fifteen foot alien humanoid being with a large elephantine head attached to its shoulders. This head has a large, thick long nose which is attached to its chest. Your going to tell me that an image like that would not be awesome. It is everything that represents a true alien universe. Its the unexplained which frightens us. Not what we can explain because it looks and seems familiar to us. Its the unatural that maddens us. I like the appearance of the Engineer in Prometheous. But I would of been more fascinated if they would of gone the elephantine way. Which in reality would only bring more intrigue and insanity to the Alien/Prometheous universe. Which for me is a good thing.

My point entirely! The lovecraftian feel on the first movie was trashed with Aliens and the sequels, utterly blamished and diminished... But we still had the Chair sitting in that derelict ship, calling...and that is now tarnished as well by Big Bald Steroid Filled buddies...that was a really big letdown. When I saw the trailers, I thought MY, they will depict the Space Jockeys alive and kicking! That thrilled me, but when I saw what they did...well.... And about the original space jockey concept being a suit, they were just talking about the "unused" artwork made by Giger for the 1979 movie, so really the imaging from Alien does not beckon as any suit, but as a once living giant that found his dead at his last post, noble enough to leave a message for no one never land there, as he was doomed and wished to no one risk landing there and die. Have they kept faithful to that the movie would have been a lot more intertesting. The engineers might be ok, but they are nowhere as interesting as the images that so impressed us from the old original movie.

The truth is right in front of our faces. The original Space Jockey has his chest blown out. In Alien Dallas mentions it himself. Those ribs do not look like they are part of any suit. They are the ribs of the creature. Look at the size of the ribs, and they go together proportionatly with the large body itself.

i always thought the jockey was creepier that way, if u have ever listened to the warning signal of the derelict in the 2003 edition alien DVD the eerie sound thats played perfectly fits the elephantine jockeys appearance in my opinion.

Sorry for the double post but i seem to have coincidentally stumbled upon a very intriguing photo of what seems to be a rock or an alien skull on mars [img]http://www.alienvideo.net/0702/img/06-12/mars_2-102-skull-closer-views.jpg[/img] I don't know what you guys think but it looks a lot like a space jockey to me XD or at least looks a lot like it, it has a trunk like feature but then again this could be a rock as some say

HAH! They could use that pic to insert the Mars Ruins, leadng to Weyland buying Dr. Holloway and Shaw's thesis and putting a trillion something into it (with economics and all, who knows how much om our present currency that is...) Now...you guys made me remember that sound from the first Alien...and the shrills it brought...and how come now, throwing out continuity to the trash bin, they put the Muscles Guys as the ones sending that damned creeping yet honorable message out! And if I recall further, they say both in movie and book that it was a sound message....a final recording from the last survivor on that alien ship, telling in his final moments for no one ever land on that forsaken moon... So more interesting, so more dramatic and even romantic than they are delivering now... THe Muscle Guys (YEAH, Muscle Guys!) idea come straight from the times science fiction could not afford different imaging due costs in production and technology, and only books could try and dare our imagination. Ridley Scott in Alien was pioneering the really different conceptualization in science fiction movies, bringing two creatures whith a really interesting and aliennish images. The Bald Muscle Guys idea is from a really old, and uninteresting school, and although seems that it fell into taste of some, it is undeniable that the Real as Imagined not Altered Space Jockey concept (forget Giger's silly wall imaging, it was discarded then due a good reason, and s be it!) would be so, so undeniably more intersting to see in this story! Giant Gods creating humans and visiting them over time, that Space Jockey would have impressed any old human culture. But who knows...in the sequence we might see that the Real Space Jockey race is indeed at war with the Muscle Guys, and they were just using biosuits designed to imitate the Sapce Jockeys in order to sabotage their interactions with other species, imitating their image to fool less advanced cultures (like Earth humans in the past) purporting being the Real Deal. THAT could salvage this mess they have done with a concept that actually enabled them to carry this idea today. Put the Muscle Guy on that chair, explain everything like they are doing today back in Alien and this whole franchise would have died long ago of boredom and lack of imagination (Muscle Guys vs Space Ants....better Godzilla than that...many anime titles from the 80's and 90's did a way better work in science fiction than such concept, and they are still way ahead of US production in regards of originality and continuity...) as it was indeed dying...I seriously doubt ANY studio would shoot more Space Ants vs Dumb Grunts anymore... As I said before, I was totally thrilled to see the traillers, as I was envisioning seeing a live giant on the screen....but the let down was actually a giant letdown, even though I was kind of expecting such ....sadly so...

Same here, when i watched the trailers and saw the head on the examination table , straight away i thought that's what it actually looks like, oh and the hologram scene of the jockeys running when i saw that in the trailer i also thought it was the actual jockey, that looked creepy i gotta say. and yes seeing the "muscular guys" sending out that eerie creepy signal doesn't fit them at all, plus i always felt the "alien " jockey reminded me of Cthulhu, a giant laying dead in abandoned barren dark planet, same as how Cthulhu lay dormant in the dark deep sea for a very long time.

The Lovecraft Inspiration is deep in Giger, and yes, it does remind us who knows Lovecraft works because of the feeling of ancientness, mistery and old tragedy and inhumaness to that alien in the chair, plus the sound coming from that message. Let's remember Lambert's reaction, and the description in the book of them hearing the Audio Transmission (yeah! It was pure audio!), a feeling "like worms were crawling up their skin" ....My! THATS Pure, Raw Lovecraft for you! That is what you would expect from him! And then comes the Bald Muscle Guys with Eerie Eyes ( -_- ) That you would expect from acolytes in any Chtulhu Mythos story, but not from the beings themselves, and yet they choose to forget that original, really awesome concept in favor of the (a new one) Bald, Muscle, Sick Looking Skin Color Tall Guys (not even Giants anymore, just Muscled Basketball Player on scene). Makes me wish the movie was never done, and that Del Toro went and shoot At the Mountains of Madness instead, and let some really original guy come and rewrite the franchise, erasing all but Alien and from there on advancing to a story faithful to the original concept. No more wild adapting (and ultimately silly) All Changing DNA Molasse No More Ever changing Space Ants No More Monster Movie genre (already spent, and might be refreshed by Pacific Rim which gets its inspiration straight from japanese anime industry, which DOES present from time to time really original looking alien concepts and biotech) Thr original Alien had none (yeah, none) of those concepts. Ash's only comment was the incredible adaptiveness of the Facehugger, which translates into its capacity to lay a pup on any large bilogical body (why translating this into this messy and silly All Adaptative Changing DNA Molass comes from marvel mutant comics...and a poor idea for any manageable biowepon). Create an ever changing biowepon and one day you end up with a pussy cat or an unmanageable device, defeating the whole purpose of the very weapon. Now as the original concept brings it, a bioweapon capable of using any biological being to lay its pup, keeping its integrity in the process, is a dangerous weapon indeed. Put it with a very aggressive nature and a short lifespam and you can create real havoc among enemy ranks. The original Alien concept as it was done (please forget the - justifyed - abandoned scripts, images and ideas) both in movie and book is original, science fiction prooftested, mind provoking and entertaining...and I miss that a lot... James Cameron Sequel poisoned the whole franchise for sure... Matinee Basketball Players playing Gods and planning the destruction of mankind...well...you can't go more cliche than that nowadays. Stargate played the concept quite successfully for over 10 years, so one might imagine they would think twice into revisiting such plot, but then who can really fatom the Studio Heads... Alien Landmark into the Science Fiction Movie genre should have been respected...

How could they forget what made the differences back in '79 and go the way they did now wonders me... They should have said: Hey, we are shooting a new movie using only visuals from Alien, but with no relation at all with that story. Consider it an Alternative Reality and no relation at all" and all right, but ignoring continuity and cohesion at least (and more importantly) with the original Alien is a huge mistake, that takes out a lot from the original concept.