The alternate beginning and ending - beneficial to the story or damaging to the

Well ALIEN Fanchise was dying, or actually dead. I keep, not a single studio would do another Monster Movie, which was what the franchise became. Ridley Scott was clear that, at first, it would not even be linked whatsoever with the old monster movie "downward" train... Later things might have changed just a bit, but the idea is to have somethng new, and linked with other themes from ALIEN (not aliens, not what went ahead and brought the franchise to its almost demise) and that is why I believe we will not see anything else xeno-related, if anything, just a note or maybe a historical record of what happened to the cago ship found by the Nostromo. Easy to note as to how clear he was about not doing another monster movie, and hoe he now wants to deliver a new story. Easy to understand how eager they were to show the juggernaut flying or the teasing images of the Space Jockey in action in the traillers..just to point out: " No more monster movie. Come and be awed by something really new" Were it dfferent and only a game company, if even that, would want anything with it all... On that note, the Alien franchise is no more...I hope now we have " The Engineer Franchise" and let the old franchise rest...

I believe (fervently) that the theatrical release would have done much better if these "alternate" beginnings and endings had just been left alone and included as originally conceived and filmed. But, here's where this franchise has clearly become a "product" and not just a film. There's nothing more interesting to me than the Engineers in any of this. Honestly, as for me, Deacon Shmeecon... They (Fox) are using this very brief and preeminently [u]valuable[/u] content to sell physical media. It is a smart business decision and it points towards the fact that one day I believe there actually will be a [url=http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/9011][b]Restoration Cut[/b][/url] (for which we will be paying [u]another[/u] $40 or so (retail)). I don't know if I consider that "damaging" to the original cut, [i]per se[/i]. I think the original cut is damaging enough in and of and to itself. The original cut was *sacrificed* to sell these discs now and in the future. It was a big risk, in my opinion, but clearly Fox had a modeling algorithm (or somebody with respectable intuition) that has worked. Thank goodness it held together for its global theatrical run better than our gallant Engineer who fell into Dettifoss upon his sacrifice. :•)

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wont make a bit of difference. These scenes arent going to say anything that cant be seen or inferred from the theatrical release. So far...im glad most of these deleted scenes have been cut from the film. cant wait to take the blu ray in and see how i ultimately feel about it.

@joeyjoe I beg to differ. How can you know what you don't know about the Engineers if no window is ever opened for you into their culture? Inferences without information as input are mere speculation.

are there any real and tangible references/depictions of the engineers' culture in the deleted scenes? i think all that stuff is for the sequel. And i like it that way. Maintain a bit of mystery in the first film...delve into who/what/why/how (in the context of the engineers) in the second film. still...ill have to spend some time with the blu ray before i come to any firm conclusion regarding the inclusion/exclusion of various deleted scenes.

If it has not been cut, they *speak* in their *own language* in a *ritual* that is the *prelude* to the *Sacrifice* Engineer drinking out of *ceremonial* cup and then dissolving into the air and water. If organized *ceremony/ritual* is not culture, then I don't know what is...

yeah...I havent seen the scene at the beginning with multiple engineers so i am withholding judgement until i see the whole thing. the thing is...its already very clear in the theatrical cut that the opening sequence is organized ceremony/ritual. My opinion on various inclusions/exclusions may change once i dig into the blu ray. really looking forward to it.

[i][b]"They (Fox) are using this very brief and preeminently valuable content to sell physical media"[/b][/i] Yes that may be correct.... but also maybe just when they was editing the movie weeks and week before it was to be released, did Ridley get 100% Green Light for Prometheus 2? Surely if the movie bombed big time, there would be no Prometheus 2. I understand some scenes was cut as they wanted to go in detail with the Engineers and this Paradise World they come from in a sequel. But if they had the Arrival of the Engineers and Paradise Scenes in the Theatrical Release and the movie never did well, and there would be no Prometheus 2 or that Prometheus 2 was not set in stone. Then i think the way the movie was released would have looked better as it was if Prometheus did end up being a stand alone movie, as maybe those scenes would have lent to much to it needing a sequel. But saying that without those scenes, Shaw still said she wants to go to where they are from, and we also have the Deacon which is a ending that we would assume may be covered in future movies but i think will not. Ultimately they will release a re-cut at some point, and i also think that they plan to concentrate on the Engineer culture and History in Paradise rather than the Xeno.

As if it was ever going to bomb when linked in with the ALIEN franchise Questions will be answered... we still don't know what happened to the Space Jockey

One assumption on the post above is rather incorrect...if it was anything really tight tied with the old franchise it would not even have gone into pre-production. That old Alien - Monster Movie - franchise was dead and no studio would make another Space Ants movie. It would not have bombed because it would never have been done. The only reason the movie was made is because they are capitalyzing concepts from the original ALIEN (Space Jockeys) and thus trying to bring those concepts to save the title. I was one that would never go to another AVP or another Space Ants vs Dumb Grunts anymore. Now the use of the juggernaut images, flying, and the scenes with the Space Jockey as we remembered from ALIEN, that brought us ALIEN fans back to the theaters, and thepossibility of moving away from the xenos and exploring what was really interesting and still a mistery, who were the ones creating such bioweapon and what we could expect from them.... That is ther reason the movie is asuccess.

[i]"when linked in with the ALIEN franchise"[/i] I think I just said that...

Warning, spoiler inside. Without going to deep in the explaination, i think that the alternate begining is changing a lot the spectator perception of the engineers, not realy in the good way. Regarding the end, the content is linking the movie more in a christianist point of view, not realy necessary for this movie. Also it introduce a maybe new trick from David. So in my opinion, the 2 scenes are totaly useless for a better understanding of the story, just adding some more new doubts and questions. But, the other deleted scenes are much more interresting and usefull to give a bit of deepness to the characters. In exemple Vickers acquires a totaly new sensibility, welcome in the story about her mind and her father. Also original scene with Fifiled is way better than the theatrical one. To finish, the scene between Shaw and the engineer in the life boat is also good to see, showing a more sensible aspect of the engineer, reacting to the creativity of the human.

Prometheus put the final nail in the coffin of the Alien and disintegrated it. The film broke it down to its elements and then combined those elements with a new element (the black liquid + Engineers); it morphed the shape of the xenomorph to give us something new. The Deacon/Alien genetics are only a backdrop now: part of an ancient war we get to find out about. I'm not expecting it to be a big part of the franchise... but it will be a tool used by various factions in various new/old and seldom seen forms. Nothing we've ever seen before completely. But something Ridley was interested enough in to put back into the director's cut of Alien. I'll say it again there has to be a reason that the black liquid morphs Fifield into a monster instead of disintegrating him. And also a reason that the black liquid shares similarities with the original egg morphing cycle. The organism is broken down by the black liquid and then reborn by being combined with new elements, allowing it to reform... Because the Alien has been reborn into something new, out of some of its old elements + new elements. I'm almost certain that Paradise will be about Engineers and the Deacon. The xeno is dead, but it's been broken down and morphed by new (and mostly unused concepts). The film itself is trying to explain what has happened to the xenomorph now. "Sometimes to create (do something new with the xenomorph) you must first destroy it" They've put the final nail in the coffin of the Alien by recreating it as the Deacon. The black liquid and some themes in the film itself are related to the original morphing cycle. How things break down, and are then combined with other elements-- able to be reborn. This applies to how the black liquid works and also changes in cultures over time, and after leadership is lost. Morphed and changed by the influence of a new direction, We'll also see this in the headless' Weyland Kingdom crumbling and then joining with Yutani corp to form Weyland-Yutani. The Deacon shares a similar design with the original Alien, but there are major differences because of the black liquid's/the Engineers' influence on the genetics. Even at its earliest stages in Holloway when imbibed it is morphing organisms within him, morphing his sperm, and allowing his sperm to reanimate and morph Shaw's dead egg. Similar to how Fifield is brought back to life... These Aliens may be able to morph dead flesh and use that to behave in new ways we've never seen before. Because the Deacon is not the Alien. It's the reborn version of it. And why recreate it if they didn't think it would be better? Hint: this ties into Ridley's stating that they were visiting us in the past to upgrade us. Again, I'm not saying they're going to ditch the Engineers story in favor of the Deacon. I think there are many ways to cover both. However, the easiest way may be a way that's already somewhat apparent already in the multiple factions theories. We know now that there are at least some major differences between Elders and Engineers. Difference in the way they act in the past and how they're absent in the future. How the Engineers change over time & how there seems to be a hierarchy to their culture + a form of religious/ceremonial ritual where a subordinate class is hinted at. The Engineers wanted the bioweapon for something, and they may have wanted a controllable version of it. I don't think they wanted to use to bio-weapon on us to kill us. As David hints they may want to recreate us for a new purpose, or even upgrade us again if David is hiding the truth. If they want to use us or improve us in some way, could it be because the wish to use us against something else? Especially if you interpret what David said as them making us a link in the bio-weapon chain. If we become weapons, who are we weapons for?? I think the answer is the Engineers are fighting fire with fire and wished to kill their parents... like David did. I'm saying the Alien/Deacon is now just a bio-weapon. We'll see much more of the people who possess the weapon, but at some point the weapons will come into play in the war scenario out in the desert/ deep space hinted at by the references to Lawrence of Arabia, David's similarities to Lawrence (he paints himself that way), and some plot similarities. The purpose the company wants it for has always been its purpose. No group/culture seems to learn that it's too deadly to play with the fire, but they'll keep playing with it anyway. I strongly believe we'll continue to see this new form of the fire in the hands of different groups who use it in multiple ways... I also strongly believe that besides the original Jockey concept Ridley has also gone back and broken down his original ideas about the morphing life-cycle as inspiration for the black liquid and what's to come. He took the morphing concept and the Space Jockey and infused them with new elements and new ideas, i.e. making them Engineers/Ancient astronauts. But I believe Ridley has also found a way to resurrect the series. By taking that original morphing concept and weaving that into the reborn version of the Xenomorph. He killed the Alien, and gave us the reborn Deacon. It's not about immortality, it's about death and rebirth. To be reborn it first had to be taken back to its elements. Hints about where it came from, and allowed to evolve in a different way. Because we've seen that the Deacon is almost a freak accident/the genetics finding a way back to a semi-original state, that means that these Aliens could have different properties. And Ridley wouldn't be tied down by the same old Alien tropes and familiar imagery. He'd be allowed to create new things based on old designs by adding in new ideas. The xeno wasn't immortal. It has to be reborn to upgrade it and infuse it with new ideas and old unused concepts; to make it somewhat interesting when they show up as a weapon in an ancient war that has been reignited. Not the same old Aliens who have strayed far from Ridley's original intent and the bizarre morphing ability he wanted to give them in the first movie. That was Ridley's idea-- which was why it was put back in the directors cut.

@Voidhawk - didn't you know 2012 is the year of the nostalgia trip?

Mala'kak Kudos !!! To all A question : Why do we have an interview with Lindelof and Spaihts saying that the only way they could have approached the alien franchise was going back to before the events of alien as the a3 and a4 killed of the series ? Why is that necessary to the story of the engineers ?

Yes it is looking very strange but maybe they will blow us away for once... Bit confused with weather this was planed from the start or its just a strange continuation of one of the strangest films ever! I thought they were redesigning the elders - so why would they put them in - thats a weird one in its self!? Many more questions just have to wait till somone gets a copy - wednesday for france? I also suppose its fair to say all the commentary may actually clear some of the questions up and the extra film bits will do a few too so anyway we need to wait see...

Eh, that, or The End XD

[b]"ALIEN Fanchise was dying, or actually dead"[/b] I dont think the Franchise is dead, its a money maker and it will go on and on, but i agree as far as in the movies goes, it has been done to death and there is no real point in going back. Star Wars was like this after the prequels but they managed to explore the universe in the Clone Wars CGI Cartoon, they never intend to ever do another Star Wars movie. So while i dont think we will see the Xeno again in the Movies apart from maybe some hint or a slight explanation in Prometheus 2 or 3, we really can not rule out a Spin off TV series in the future that could be used to touch upon the Xeno or even the Deacon.

OK, awesome thoughts by everyone. I'm sure some of us are over thinking the whole situation. My Guess is, the black fluid was supposed to be a genetic upgrade, gone semi-wrong, I rekon we will see a prequel to the preditor series, showing engineers/elders being the creating race for the preditors, with the use of the black fluid. Takes us back to the top with Sukkal's Comments, possibly just another way to make some dollars in a new movie, or potentually create and awesome linked universe. we will wait and see