Engineers / Biblical tie-in

@ OP: The Bible is a fantasy.

sdavids5670, you've hit the name on the head for all 'pre-visitation' ideas, how do they explain the dinosaurs and the millions of years of plant life only? 'Pre-visitation' is a kind of creationism in my view, it's about avoiding finding the truth which is no doubt far more awesome in it's complexity. I think the black goo is a kind of terraforming, I haven't bought into the 'weaponisation,' it's just to clumsy for that, for a species that must be millions of years old, I find it hard to believe that the engineer's couldn't simply mega nuke the earth should they want to destroy humanity.

@TheWanderer "mega nuke the earth should they want to destroy humanity." Yup, but thats not apparently how they roll why render a habitable planet unusable with mega nukes when you have something that can change the problem-child lifeform like sculptors unhappy with their work smushing their modelling clay to make something else why waste all those nucleotides by burning everything!!!

that or they for some big plot reveal reason yet to happen they rehhheaalllllllyyyyyy dont like us and its verrrrryyy personal and nuking is just too good for us

"Yeah, but who made the Engineers?" I can't answer that but I can tell you who they STOLE their tech from, the ancient Oliphant/Ganesha 'Space Truckers' from Alien. LOL.

[i]why render a habitable planet unusable with mega nukes when you have something that can change the problem-child lifeform[/i] The Black Goo, rather than destroying - would be 'upcycling', converting waste materials into something, into something better. This upcycling would happen every 100,000 years. Almost like the cyclic Yugas in Hinduism

better in their opinion! cries! i dont wanna be up-cycled! lol

See how unimaginative The Wanderer's suggestion are?

dont be mean @SubsumeYou think somebody has been in at the goo.... lol

There are a few connections to the bible in prometheus ; The sacrifice of the engineer at the start The Alien being crucified on the mural Its Christmas time Shaw giving birth when she cant conceive(virgin mary) Maybe even the resurrection of fifield, theres probably more, but i dont know the bible aswell as i should.

"why render a habitable planet unusable with mega nukes when you have something that can change the problem-child life form" Who says a planet is unusable after a nuclear holocaust, mammals arose after the dinosaurs were made extinct by a meteor impact holocaust in a few million years, that's nothing for these engineers. The more I think about it, the mosre I think the pre-visitation theme weak , it reeks of pseudo biblical nihilism. Our current theories on how life starts are far more interesting and could have been easily worked into the prometheus story, in some ways they are, the black goo seems to represent pure life and it's often violent struggle for survival and pro-creation. I'm increasingly coming round to think of the goo as simply a metaphor for 'life' itself....... the perfect organism.

SubsumeYou, thanks, I like you too honey.

@ The Wanderer: We should welcome all forms of criticism, the positive and those that cause one to balk.

The Biblical connection comes from suggestions made by Ridley Scott. Somewhere in the various interviews I read that he suggested that Jesus could have been - and mind you he was just suggesting here - an emmisary of the Engineers and we crucified him. You will also notice the phrase used twice 'In the year of our Lord". This is just a reasonable suggestion. No one said that he WAS an Engineer or I agree he would tend to stand out.

I think you guys are over-thinking the religious stuff. This movie is sort of like the Bible. It lies/leaves parts of the story out (Deleted scenes) and draws from many much older sources. Hardcore religious people might not like what this movie series may begin to say about religion. That religion, like most leaders, is deceptive. This movie asks you to believe it (trusting David's words), choose what to believe from it (the clues), and leaves huge gaps that people attempt to explain, holding onto faith that answers will be in a sequel, or rejecting the movie entirely. There are so many other sources and ancient mythologies they're drawing from in this film... The Bible itself is BS in my eyes, because it's a recreation/collection of much older myths... Myths that if one is serious about making a movie about alien astronaut hypothesis also have to be referenced. And the leaders in charge left out all the best myths in the ancient world when they wrote the Bible based on these earlier accounts that had become dramatized, and were mixed with the earlier myths. Just like so-called alien astronaut theorists leave out certain myths that don't fit the story they're telling... By the end of this I think no one will be able to say that this film series is embracing religion, maybe myths... which is all that Christianity is. An update on the myths told a certain way, to give power to those early leaders... a rebranding... Like how Emperor Constantine adopts Christianity when he controls the Romans, mostly to appease the growing number of early Christians... Sure there are some very deliberate references, and David deceives and tells the truth at the same time like Lucifer/Poseidon/The anti christ. But I think the religious themes are there to eventually be turned on their heads. We'll truly think David is anti-christ like, or completely "evil" until we understand his motives and realize that he only wanted to be free. David wants to be free from his masters... Just like Jesus wanted freedom from the Romans and rebelled against them. Weyland corp is not quite an Empire yet... it's an unjust kingdom. But Weyland was doing what emperors did... he didn't want to give up his rule--and will eventually be overthrown by one of his inner circle or the board, possibly someone from Yutani, as the Weyland-Yutani Empire is formed. I think it's simply that Jesus was sending the Romans a message that the Engineers conveniently shared. I'm leaning more towards the J'manuel was only a man who stood against the Romans idea, and the Engineers like this because their true target was only the Romans at that time. However, because of Weyland they now think that most of us have become even more like the rulers of the old Empires that were forming. Not only do the Empires mistreat the rest of us, try to conquer and spread colonies, and rule for far too long (which they don't like because it reminds them of their Elders); but they also could pose a serious threat to them if one of our Empires ever gets into space.. The Roman leaders wished to extend their rules when they made themselves Emperors. Weyland wished to extend his life, because he had been ruling the company almost all his life, and wanted more time to rule. Good thing Vickers perceived Weyland as a king and not an Emperor. Although, the Engineer may hate unjust leaders of any form, or any humans who begin to develop this way. It's not that they're mad at all of us for crucifying Jesus... they wanted him to send a message to the Romans and he failed. The Romans take most of the blame for crucifying him. The Engineers may have broken away from the Elders/their empire--becoming more warlike and aggressive, upgrading themselves, preparing new weapons to win the battle and hold their position in the hierarchy. They continue to oppose leaders who treat their subjects unfairly or who overstep their bounds and become too power hungry. Even though this is exactly what led to their demise on LV-223 by messing around with the goo/alien genetics. I think the movie is all about freedom from control and our own human natures, how that's influenced by nature/nurture and corrupted leaders, power corrupting. As well as the nature of the hierarchies existing in this film universe. Not that Jesus was an emissary in a literal sense, but more so he had a connection with a message that the Engineers shared. They wanted freedom from their Elders, their Empire, but may be trying to work with a group higher up than the Elders. They've reached out to those below to try to get them to correct the course of humanity throughout our development. Some of the Engineers were being unjust rulers themselves and only left us clues to eventually involve us in their still ongoing war with their Elders. They wish to lead us into the stars only to deceive and use us now... They've become like the fathers they hate. Just like David will become more like Weyland... And both the Egineers and David wish to see humanity used in different ways, as their subjects. The Engineers wish to use us in any way they can to help kill their fathers, and have been "upgrading" us towards this goal. David is misleading us about their intentions, it's him who wants to completely destroy and rebuild all of humanity... "Sometimes to create ONE must first destroy"... He's making it general so it can apply to many things, and no one knows the full meaning... because David can't really lie. Only because he's not really a "real boy" even though he may have some free-will. David retains some Pinocchio-esque traits thanks to his programming that usually forces him to be helpful to humanity. This is why he's forced to say it wasn't the air, gain Holloway's permission, it's not only a him being a dick thing. He makes it just obvious enough, that Shaw could have easily figured out that he infected Charlie when she looks at the full context. Unlike the Bible, David is telling the truth, or what he believes to be the truth. He deceives differently, things weren't added to his train of thought over time, he keeps his beliefs mainly the same between versions of the scripts even though words/actions change. It seems like it was always the plan to have David survive and be implied to be part of the sequel (especially apparent in Spaight's chessboard ending). David's beliefs/thoughts are less apparent in Prometheus and slightly altered, but they're still there. In the Spaight's script David says "you're all so stupid" to Shaw after commenting on how much smarter she was than Charlie (he read her profile). David views ALL of humanity as stupid and inferior, especially the crew in the final version. "Stupid and slow". His words in the final version are very deliberate, and by no means entirely a "poor choice of words". Only a poor choice in that he believes he's giving himself away and may actually want to, to be a dick to the humans about his plans. He says things like "not too close I hope" to indicate his full thoughts on things--but he's not telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth...

If they're going to put elements of any real world religion into their movie, they should only do so respectfully.

Mala'kak you have a lot to say. I am just getting over Strep throat so its hard to concentrate on all of your points but it strikes me that what main points you are making could be summarized and more focused. Regarding theology and Prometheus, it does seem to be written as a challenge to traditional perception on religion. There are clear religious symbols present throughout the story that suggest the religious relevancy to it. Since the basic question of why the Engineers created us only to attempt to destroy us later was never answered directly, there is plenty of room for debate and conjecture here. I think the 2000 year clue is a huge red flag as we all know what happened around that time. Keep in mind that we are living in a Judeo-christian culture whether or not we believe in its precepts. Taking this movie in the context of this culture we would be remiss not to notice that point. But Ridley Scott is a genius and Damon Lindelof also never likes to state too much right out. I would be very disappointed if Prometheus or Paradise, the sequel came right out with claiming that Jesus WAS an emmisary of the Engineers. All of the mystery and possibilities for debate would collapse. Our collective life experience known as the human condition is one of mystery and a state of unknowing. In that vacuum we conjure up all sorts of theologies and mythologies. I love that Prometheus is a movie that is playing with the big questions which have for too long been ignored in the popular media. And most importantly - its NOT supplying us with ready made convenient answers to fill our heads, just questions.

'mystery and unknowing' what a bucketload of dolts we are, what a shower. We can all just WORK IT OUT with our mega-brains and be custodians for a free planet, you know, if we wanted to, if we could be bothered, we such lazy fat-ass race, it's not even funny any more. Deserved slaves of Amateur Manipulators aka Emperors - that's how we'll ALL be remembered. Nice, eh?

Jesus did not have to appear to us looking exactly like an Engineer. Jesus appeared to us in GOD's image = us. We do not even look like the Engineers. The Engineers are not the creators of anything. The Engineers are manipulators of what has already been created. We were created in GOD's image. The Engineers were trying to mess with GOD's creation!

"..Good thing Vickers perceived Weyland as a king and not an Emperor.." The movie is so full of charactors that see themselves in a regal manner. Certainly Weyland, then Vickers, David and Shaw are in this mix. But the Last Engineer and even Janek had desires to make their mark on this story. Janek may be the only one with a noble action. Shaw is now determined to sort things out,,no matter who or what is the way. She is motivat4ed to start kicking a%% and taking names. I just thought the comment about Royalty was a sort of thread in the storyline.

Mala'kak@ Prometheus is mainly based on the works of Erich Von Däniken, author of "The Chariots of the gods" and other works that claimed that the aliens created men. Two scenes in particular show the anti-Christian character of the film. First, Jesus is described as an alien who was sent to observe us, but was killed by Roman Empire. Therefore the Mission of punishment of the Earth started 2000 years ago. This confirmed by Ridley Scott in recently interviews. The crucifix symbolizes the new faith of Liz Shaw. Later, at the end of the movie, Liz, retrieves his crucifix and says that they have had their faith returned. In fact, she changed her faith, of a Jesus who is God, in Jesus, which is an alien. So goes the planet from engineers, to meet this new Jesus.

There are subtle hints to the Bible, but i dont think the movie is going the whole Bible route... The Chariots of the Gods is basically the Ancient Astronaut theory and that is they both try and tie in the many similarities with Ancient God Worship and depiction of higher beings with them being Alien Visitors. Prometheus is basically going for a similar route to that, and it may hint some connection with the Bible but then as with the Ancient Astronaut theory, this also tries to tie elements of the Bible just being a interpretation of Ancient Astronauts. I think of all the Ancient beliefs etc Prometheus does share a fair share with the Tale of the Annunaki

BigDave @ I really enjoyed reading your explanation, Bigdave, but in Anunnaki theory the scientists wanted to demonstrate that the modified monkeys were something else, something that could use in the future and decided to modify them, mixing himself anunnaki DNA with the modified monkeys, but there are no monkeys in Prometheus similar as it appears in 2001 Space Odyssey, only a spiritual scene at begining, It is a scene of sacrifice even the intention is the same.