Forum Topic
tankgirl
Social LiasonMemberOvomorphDec-06-2012 3:32 PMThe relationship of Artificial Intelligence and Humans was a strong thematic idea in Prometheus
I believe in the next movie 'Paradise' it will become even more intense with a representative from each left..... David and Elizabeth
Today, on Earth, our awareness of the possible threat of A.I. is becoming more prevalent in our movies, literature, and everyday life
It is infriltrating our military planning and gaining increasing concerns for our real future with Universtities setting up departments of experts to monitor and asses developing risks
On Nov. 21, the U.S. Deputy Defense Secretary Ashton Carter signed a new policy directive aimed at reducing the risk and “consequences of failures in autonomous and semi-autonomous weapon systems that could lead to unintended engagements.”
In other words, the Pentagon was making sure that the U.S. military doesn’t end up in a situation where robots are able to decide whether to pull the trigger on a human.
[img]http://www.hangthebankers.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/terminator-rise-of-the-machines.jpg[/img]
Cambridge University in the UK has initiated [b]The Cambridge Project for Existential Risk[/b]
QUOTE: The Cambridge Project for Existential Risk
Many scientists are concerned that developments in human technology may soon pose new, extinction-level risks to our species as a whole.
Such dangers have been suggested from progress in AI, from developments in biotechnology and artificial life, from nanotechnology, and from possible extreme effects of anthropogenic climate change. The seriousness of these risks is difficult to assess, but that in itself seems a cause for concern, given how much is at stake.
The Cambridge Project for Existential Risk — a joint initiative between a philosopher, a scientist, and a software entrepreneur — begins with the conviction that these issues require a great deal more scientific investigation than they presently receive.
[url=http://cser.org/]Cambridge University Project for Existential Risk[/url]
[img]http://cdn-static.zdnet.com/i/story/60/01/006029/irobot.jpg[/img]
Here is an interesting article on the subject
[url=http://theconversation.edu.au/artificial-intelligence-can-we-keep-it-in-the-box-8541]TheConversation[/url]
SO.....
Who do you think will or should succeed in Paradise??
The Human- Elizabeth
The AI-David
[img]http://cdn.crushable.com/files/2012/08/Shaw_David1.jpg[/img]
\"My God, its full of stars\" David Bowman
30 Replies
Svanya
AdminPraetorianDec-06-2012 4:21 PMIn this interview, [url=http://www.aceshowbiz.com/news/view/00054577.html] Ridley Scott Hints at 'Prometheus' Sequel Plot[/url] Ridley says Shaw will be in danger once she gets David's head re-attached.
Quote-[i]"You've got a person [Noomi's Elizabeth] with a head in a bag [Michael's David] that functions and has an IQ of 350," he elaborated further. "It can explain to her how to put the head back on the body and she's gonna think about that long and hard because, once the head is back on his body, he's dangerous." -Ridley Scott[/i]
Shaw beat some huge odds in Prometheus, by using her brains, brawn and faith. David many have brains and brawn, but he has no faith so he will not be the winner here.
caenorhabhditis
MemberOvomorphDec-06-2012 4:01 PMdunno but i reckon david is to us what we are to the engineers
I LIKE WORMS! I LOVE WORMS!
DenzelTH
MemberOvomorphDec-06-2012 4:12 PMI think they will work as a team, gotta keep David away from the Engineers though, dont want his head taken off.
David is tricky, he might seem to be an friend , but he has alterior motives. But the Humans always save the day. ;)
\\\" I Want To Go Where They Come From\\\"
tankgirl
Social LiasonMemberOvomorphDec-06-2012 5:13 PM
I agree caenor about some kind of hierarchy and David8 saying "dont we all want our parents dead" may come to mean a lot more in Paradise
@denzel I agree I think team work is going to be important...until it gets critical for survival and it will then depend of lots of factors
Thanks for the link Svanya : )
just wondering
are you less dangerous with or without a body
is David still a threat without his body?
I wonder if David does have faith? [a belief not based on fact]
and whether his faith turns out to be fact or Elizabeths
\"My God, its full of stars\" David Bowman
tankgirl
Social LiasonMemberOvomorphDec-06-2012 5:24 PMThinking about David having faith.....
I know David was very interested on Lawrence of Arabia
Quote:Reflections on characters and themes in “Lawrence of Arabia”
Lawrence was clearly driven – he was a highly intelligent and well educated idealist whose faith in himself drove him to acts of great courage and daring, but also led to an excess of confidence and a fall from grace.
[img]http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5dwp4kvm81r5vaoeo1_1280.gif[/img]
\"My God, its full of stars\" David Bowman
DenzelTH
MemberOvomorphDec-06-2012 5:26 PMI think he was getting way too confident, maybe even cocky, and the Engineer ripping his head off brought him down a peg or two. I think he does have some kind of faith or hope, like when he tells Shaw about the Engineer coming after her, he wants her to stay alive so she can help him, and seems relieved when she answers back.
If he was fine, would he have even warned Shaw about the incoming Engineer?
\\\" I Want To Go Where They Come From\\\"
tankgirl
Social LiasonMemberOvomorphDec-06-2012 5:31 PMI think he has some kind of faith too Denzel
but I also think he just needed Shaw to get out of the place he was physically stuck in
I do think David8 will have some kind of faith
a [b][i]belief without facts[/i][/b] that is the cause of his drive
he does seem purposeful
as if he has a plan
unless he knows something that he hasnt yet revealed that is driving his plans
he did seem to know a LOT before Prometheus Arrived
DenzelTH pointed out in Indys thread about the Weyland Timeline
[i]Per standard procedure, we will embed a David 8 unit with the crew. And he will be programmed with multiple contingency plans to address and exploit whatever assets we secure on LV-223.[/i]
[i]But only David will know about 426 and will ensure that the rest of the crew ( including Meredith ) learn nothing about the transmission we've recently discovered, until the time is right.[/i]
Also thought it is interesting that when Alien came out in 1979, roboticists were making wheeled boxes that crashed into walls. Ash - the film's traitorous android - was pure fantasy.
But when Prometheus came out , Weyland Industries' David 8 enters a world with plenty of emerging real-life androids.
\"My God, its full of stars\" David Bowman
pulserifle187
MemberOvomorphDec-06-2012 8:56 PMWhat makes David so dangerous he has no idea that what he is doing is wrong or right. He show no emotion ( readable emotion ) to warrant suspicion .You will never get that feel of him lying or being deceptive.
"how do you feel?"-" great, next stupid question"
Major Noob
MemberOvomorphDec-06-2012 8:29 PMExcellent post Tankgirl. I of course have the answer but can't share it with you at this time. Terribly sorry.
Albert West
MemberOvomorphDec-06-2012 8:32 PMShaw needs David and David needs Shaw, but what happens once that head is attached. Will David still need Shaw. In Prometheus it is clear what Shaw's intentions are throughout. David, on the other hand, I could not follow. He is so complex. During Prometheus I was asking "What is he doing now?" "How did he know how to do that?" "Is he experiencing emotions?" "Who's regime is he following?" With David there are so many variables. He is very, very dangerous. I believe we will find out how dangerous David can be in the next movie, but I also believe that we will discover how strong Elizabeth Shaw's will and faith really is.
tankgirl
Social LiasonMemberOvomorphDec-06-2012 8:46 PM
David is definately very complex and dangerous I agree Albert.
It seems to be all the variables that make him dangerous
maybe thats exactly how the Engineer felt about us!
I think the Elizabeth/David dynamic will be such an interesting plot development
because between the both of them are ALL the key themes of Prometheus
MAJOR NOOB!!!!
Thats such a tease!!!! ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
dont you think this is a perfect sedgeway into your next Paranoobius Chapter
O-O
\"My God, its full of stars\" David Bowman
tankgirl
Social LiasonMemberOvomorphDec-06-2012 9:03 PMtotally pulserifle!
but... it looks like he knew things about the mission and was instructed not to tell certain crew
so ...whether he is [b]deciding[/b] to lie
or programmed to not reveal the truth
is yet to be disclosed : )
This reminds me so much of Hal 9000 in [b]2001 a space odyssey[/b]
he developed paranoid behavior due to his programming
HAL is unable to resolve a conflict between his general mission to relay information accurately and orders specific to the mission requiring that he withhold from Bowman and Poole the true purpose of the mission.
With the crew dead, he reasons, he would not need to be lying to them. He fabricates the failure of the AE-35 unit so that their deaths would appear accidental.
[img]http://www.technovelgy.com/graphics/content07/hal-reads-lips.jpg[/img]
maybe David8 is suffering due to his programming
of maybe he is an emerging consciousness and this has caused the conflict and volatility
this also brings up the idea of how much free will does Shaw have?
[img]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-_T6Khl5juf8/TslrlJdxNGI/AAAAAAAAEC4/6mR9jjbsCsQ/s1600/against_free_will_god_angel.jpg[/img]
\"My God, its full of stars\" David Bowman
Rubirosa
MemberOvomorphDec-06-2012 11:09 PMI just finished watching 2001 a few hours ago @tankgirl. Its about the twentieth time I have watched it. It is an amazing piece of art work which is very deep to the core. Some so called science-fiction fans who are on the young, side consider it a boring film. They rather watch an AvP flick which do not have any intellectual meaning at all.
tankgirl
Social LiasonMemberOvomorphDec-06-2012 11:15 PM I love 2001 its my favorite movie!!
it is incredible Rubirosa I agree
and it has influenced so much in science fiction thought
I have watched it many times
and still love it! : )
\"My God, its full of stars\" David Bowman
Theseus
MemberOvomorphDec-06-2012 11:32 PMAssess Tankgirl.
The war between them is over with David's prime programmer Weyland being killed. Shaw could deprogram him, reprogram him and/or help him find his own way now. How can that crescent Engineer ship be flown without David's body operating it? Perhaps he isntructs her how to fly the ship. I'm thinking his head woud have to be re-attached as it would take too long for Shaw to learn how to fly the ship.
Paradise I think is a place where people and beings unite in peace and also explore the magic of the universe...creator, created, magic, wonder and creativity are all wrapped into one organic mosiac...all about freedom of imagination and operating independently from a creator authority. The place would have the power to transform all consciousness and all form being the originator of everything in the universe. Shaw and David would participate in this transformation. David discovers he has a soul already just unrealized and Shaw learns to focus her negative emotions to positivity. Paradise is a supremely feminine realm that Shaw enjoys also with very clear philosophy which David appreciates. Paradise has it all...the birthplace of all cultures in the universe.
tankgirl
Social LiasonMemberOvomorphDec-06-2012 11:42 PMI like your thinking Theseus
although Im not quite sure if the war between Shaw and David has quite been full resolved
as Im not sure if they have been fully challenged as a team yet
and the dynamic of having to rely on each other will bring that to a head
I LOVE your view of Paradise
but I think it might still raise the concepts of free will
whose creative ideas will become reality
it reminds a bit again of 2001 Space Odessey
maybe they all meld together as happened with the monolith
or maybe
in not such a positive way
such as the Borg in Star Trek???
\"My God, its full of stars\" David Bowman
pulserifle187
MemberOvomorphDec-07-2012 1:57 AM2001 has to be the most realistic sci fi movie regarding space travel and the environment within a spaceship.
"how do you feel?"-" great, next stupid question"
Cerulean Blue
MemberFacehuggerDec-07-2012 11:25 AMMy money is on Shaw every time, but we would need to understand exactly how a 'success' is defined in an Engineer world.
Survival?
Death?
caenorhabhditis
MemberOvomorphDec-07-2012 3:42 PMheres something to consider regarding how dangerous david is without his body attached when he warns shaw about 'angry bob' he says something like testing radio transmission and as he speaks you see a little red light on his bodys exposed interior flash in synchrony.... so does david have wifi control over his body for all we know he's lulling shaw into a false sense of security for all we know david could remotely direct his body to get up and do all sorts like someone pretending to be wheelchair bound then creeping about when yer backs turned....
I LIKE WORMS! I LOVE WORMS!
Indy John
MemberOvomorphDec-08-2012 9:36 PM"..Paradise has it all...the birthplace of all cultures in the universe. .."
Well for a movie fan like me there could be endless storylines.
Be choicelessly aware as you move through life
Theseus
MemberOvomorphJan-09-2013 1:53 PMI see you've been reading Krishnamurti's books Indy John...very cool.
Indy John
MemberOvomorphJan-09-2013 3:17 PM@Theseus
Yes I have and it has simple but powerful message..
Keep your the postings They make a good read.
Be choicelessly aware as you move through life
Indy John
MemberOvomorphJan-09-2013 4:06 PM"..a little red light .."
After his head was lifted I also saw the light appear in David's torso area. It seems to be indicating speaking but why an internal light woulf even be needed is another mystery.
I had not thought of David's Wi-Fi type connectivity but it sort of makes sense. He did worn of the Engineer going after her. He might have known as the Engineer left the Juggernaut.
David didn't know if Shaw was alive but still called out to her.
He certainly was relieved that she was alive!
Just because he was physically separate from his torso do you think that the Nexes8 would only be hard wired?
Be choicelessly aware as you move through life
Theseus
MemberOvomorphJan-09-2013 3:42 PMThanks @Indy John. I will. I was instructed by someone on here to save my first post...it was a long expose' on my thoughts on Paradise. I have it hard copied as instructed since it has now been curiously "lifted" from this site as intellectual property perhaps. Hmmm.
caenorhabhditis
MemberOvomorphJan-10-2013 4:42 AM@Indy it would make sense (to me) that there be some wifi connectivity either between him as a whole and the ship/other gadgetry
or even between his brain/braincase and his body like a back-up brain or co-ordinator in his body he certainly seemed to be transmitting his radio message via something on his body as indicated by the way the red light flashed as he spoke
which begs the question why didnt he just get up like the headless horseman and pick up his own head... maybe to seem helpless while the engineer was still charging about angrily (playing possum) maybe this tactic continued after to make shaw feel safer about continueing her journey with him... or maybe he needs time to co-ordinate this act.... or a combo of these ideas
it would make a good twist if it is revealed that he doesnt really need shaws help in the next film i can just picture his grin
I LIKE WORMS! I LOVE WORMS!
Indy John
MemberOvomorphJan-10-2013 5:04 AM@caenorhabhditis
Just when i think something makes sense in the movie your suggestions make more sense and raise soem questions.
IThe Lst Engineer cleanly ripped off david's head then there ios apossibbility tof re =connnection not just by Shaw but by David himself. Seeing his body lurch around would be a complication still it is possible.
Saving Shaw must have been a priority in his mind a she kept reaching out to her.
I liked the 'headless horseman reference'.
An additional thought: When David is talking about her God deserting her do you think he was referring to Himself as God??
I mean he was going to cool Shaw off for the return journey to Earth. David certainly was not around during Shaw's birthing scene and seemingly surprised when she walked in on Weyland.
Anyway it was a good insight into the separated David: what he could do and what he might have done.
Be choicelessly aware as you move through life
caenorhabhditis
MemberOvomorphJan-10-2013 5:27 AMwhat i wonder about is when he says dont we all wish our parents dead and she says no but he grins at her as if maybe he has picked up on some deep subconscious feeling she maybe had toward her father as a child maybe for outliving her mother? maybe in her childish mind she would have rather had her mother alive and this is some shameful fleeting guilty thought she struggles with of course its more likely he has been reading vickers dreams! but thatd be a big twist ooh or maybe what he means is Shaw subconsciously hates what she perceives to be god! for letting her loved ones die etc maybe her search is one of vengeance and she doesnt really know it yet but david sees a potential ally in this????
I LIKE WORMS! I LOVE WORMS!
BLANDCorporatio
MemberOvomorphJan-10-2013 6:44 AMAwesome thread [b]Tankgirl[/b]!
Let me reassure y'all (I work in robotics) that present day androids are a threat to themselves and hapless lab equipment only. A state of affairs that will continue for a few years at least.
Military drones though are the real deal. Possibilities for automation raise new and real ethical concerns there.
On David and wi-fi- are we sure the light's in the body? As in, not the suit? I have a hard time telling because of the angle.
Anyway, while a nice idea, I'd rather think not. Certainly, not in the sense that David could remote control his body. Basically, if he could, he would, before Shaw got to him. That's the practical argument.
The touchy-feely 'argument' I have against it is that, at the end of the film, we are presented with what's imo a very juicy situation.
"He's got a good head and no shoulders."
The fact that David's now in two, separate pieces is what adds an obvious element of mutual need to the relationship between the two. It brings them together and they must negotiate their goals.
Removing that, say by having David able to eventually pick himself up on his own, would be a misstep I think. Twist, yes. Not all twists are worth it.
The twist that Elizabeth actually at a subconscious level hates God, by contrast, makes perfect thematic sense. I can easily see why she'd pose the questions she posed to the Engineer, why she cares so much about them, because of such an internal conflict.
As to who would win- I have no idea. Really. Smart money doesn't necessarily say David. He's not quite getting how Elizabeth ticks either, even as he watched her dreams.
I'm eager to watch the fight. When's that sequel coming out?
The whole point of this is lost if you keep it a secret.
Indy John
MemberOvomorphJan-18-2013 10:54 AM"..When's that sequel coming out?.."
Not soon enough..
Is there anyway there can be a blending of AI and the human brain?
At least from a human standpoint to increase our brain capacity while still feel worthwhile human emotions seems like a pretty good deal.
Th edanger with AI becoming dominant then at some point, somehow, soneway a human(or other entity) would be able to take over the leading AI examples for power hungry, greedy reason.
A thinking brain controlling a logical artificial brain.
How would a AI person play Poker? Could the idea of 'Bluffing' even be imagined.
In humans it is an almost natuaral instinct practiced everyday.
It would always be an 'alien' process fro an A.I. mind.
Be choicelessly aware as you move through life
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