Trilobite Size (Alien 1 SJ + Prometheus SJ have identical face huggers)

Do you think the the Deacon could learn how to operate a Juggernaut? They are not built in a classic humanic(is this a word?) design. THat does not mean it is not intelligent but is truly an alien in the known world. Yea I would like to see xenos withan armada of space ships.

Thinking about it now, wouldn't it make sense if the Alien that bursted from the SJ in Alien was the Queen from Aliens? And all she was waiting for, was more hosts? It's possible the Alien Queen could have lied dormant, waiting for new hosts on LV_426, and when those poor souls from the Hadley's Hope colony ventured into the Derelict and got impregnated, it sent a signal off to the Queen that it was time to invade? Here's how I somewhat see the chain of events happening: 1 - Alien Queen bursts from Space Jockey, survives crash land on LV_426 or bursts after the crash. 2- Newly born Alien Queen chestburster/ Praetorian, either stays dormant in the Derelict, or wanders off somewhere on LV_426. 3- Weyland-Yutani colonize the planet and set up Hadley's Hope. 4- A family ventures too close to the Derelict and upon investigating get attacked by a Facehugger. 5- The Facehugger later bursts and scurries away, outside the complex, where it grows. 6- The new Alien picks up on the pheromone signals given out by the Queen and rushes to her. There, the two wait until more Alien eggs are discovered and more Aliens get loose. 7- After a while, the Alien Queen and a healthy number of other Aliens venture into Hadley's hope, attacking and gathering as many hosts as they can find and eventually set up a nice cozy home under the refinery. It's not totally "out there", as the movie [i]Aliens[/i] never explained exactly what happened after Newt's Dad was attacked by the Facehugger. So it's possible the SJ Chestburster was in fact the Queen from Aliens.

im not sure that any one really, knows as of now, but i think that the deacon probably died. since there was nothing around to eat or drink. then again i dont know if there was actually any organic food or water on the ship or planet. but its gotta be somehwere around there

Sorry Chris but I disagree with the SJ Chestburster being a Queen, for one simple reason... 1. The derelict Juggernaut was already carrying a a cargo of eggs, protected by a layer of blue laser-mist. But heres how I see the layout of events pre-crash to Jorden families discovery... - Lone Engineer Pilot flies Juggernaut through the ZIIR System, carrying a cargo bay full of Xenomorph Eggs. - Picks up distress call from LV-223, the Black Liquid outbreak circa 2000 years ago. Leaves chair to investigate the signal in his orrery display before smelling burning. - Seeing a hole appear in his chairs platform the Engineer Pilot leaps back into the chair and hurriedly commands the elephantine suit to close around him - it does, just as a Facehugger leaps onto his face. - With the Pilot connected to the Juggernaut but unconscious, the Juggernaut drifts before being pulled into the atmosphere of LV-426. - The Juggernaut crashed, the Pilot awakens, feeling the Facehugger trapped inside his elephantine helmet. Before giving birth the Engineer activates his emergency beacon before opening access to the left "arm" of the Juggernaut. - Chestburster is born and seeks refuge in the left arm of the Juggernaut before being placed in stasis and locked away - the pilots last laugh. - 2000 years later, the crew of the Nostromo explore the central area of the Juggernaut, 57 years after that the Jordens explore the collapsed, right arm of the juggernaut. Thats my two cents, the Alien from the SJ is in stasis inside the left, fin-shaped arm of the derelict Juggernaut.

Well yes there was Eggs on the Derelict in Alien, i am not sure Chris would forget this, i think his point is that the Chest Buster was a Queen that then went off somewhere and waited until more people came across the Eggs and produced enough Xenos for the Queen to then feel safe enough to attack the Colony and use its hosts. I dont have a problem with the Queen i think its a iconic creature and fits well, and i like it more than the Egg Morphy Scene from Alien DC as those people where being turned into Eggs that was not quite like the ones found on the Derelict. The Problems i have with the Queen and Alien to Aliens is that there is no proof that the Chest Buster was a Queen, i mean maybe a idea back then was Face Huger + Engineer would make a Queen lifeform, but latter movies brought about the Royal Face Huger Concept in which any host could produce a Queen provided it was infected with a Royal Face Huger. My problem then is, why could the Xeno in Alien not grown into a Queen, but as that never happened we only can assume that either the Space Jockey Chest Buster or more so one of those Eggs had a Royal Face Huger.

As far as the Alien Space Jockeys Fate. From all the clues and hints given by Ridley the ship already had a Cargo of Eggs. Ridley also said that the ship was on its way to a unspecified destination with that Cargo for a unspecified reason. But one of the Cargo become compromised and got to the Space Jockey who then had to make a emergency landing on the closest baron place to Quarantine the Cargo and set off a SOS Warning to keep away at all costs. We know his ship crash landed on LV 426 and we can only assume that LV 426 is not far away from LV 223, i dont think we are talking the same Gas Giant but maybe one in same system or near by system. So we have to look at how the Space Jockey got infected... logic to me would dictate that somehow he had a warning that one of the containment fields was compromised or showed some fault and so he left his chair and went to investigate the discrepancy. This is when he got Face Hugged and like Kane this must have knocked him unconscious for a period of time, he must have awoken to find himself on the floor with a Face Hugger beside him and then realized what happened. Knowing that he would maybe not be able to get far before he gets Chest Busted (assumes he knows the purpose and cycle of the Bio Weapon) he then knew his time was short and could not have this ship and its Cargo get into the wrong hands or end up at a location and destination that was not originally intended. He then had no choice but to get back into the Pilot Seat and plot in the closest course to the nearest baron moon to Quarantine the Cargo and set off a Warning Beacon. This ended up being LV 426 and its assumed close proximity to LV 223 which we can take as near enough FACT means that potentially the Ship was either Leaving LV 223 with this Cargo or it was heading to LV 223 with this Cargo. Which ever way this ends up being will almost let us know the purpose and origin of the Eggs, 1. Was they produced on LV 223? 2. Was they found and to be taken to LV 223 to be used in some kind of Bio Weapon Experiment (my favorite) 3. Was they obtained from something related to the Goo or created by the Goo at some location and then transported back to LV 223. I think the time frame is a big clue also, you see unless we are lead to believe that a Space Jockey Suited Engineer can get Face Hugged, this leaves us with him getting Face Hugged without his mask or somehow his mask came off. We then have a time frame from impregnation to Chest Buster this incubation period that does seem to be about 12-24 hours usually, thus we have to assume the time for a ship to start a journey allowing enough time in space before things went to pop and Space Jockey got Face Hugged then more time while he was Face Hugged until he recovered enough to then finally set a course to LV 426. The above to me seems to rule out the possibility that LV 426 is just another moon around the same Gas Giant that LV 223 was on. Thus also ruling out many holes, such as the different amount of moons shown in Prometheus and Alien and also why Prometheus never explored LV 426 as Weyland knew about that place. So a time frame of the events inc Face Hugging to Gestation period could point to LV 426 being in a near by system and that the journey to LV 223 from Earth was shorter than LV 426 and thus they would take a look at LV 223 and could then investigate LV 426 after.... had the crew not come unstuck by the events of Prometheus.

the queen to me, seems like an evolution type deal. maybe it is a lot of work to cocoon people like the original alien so traits were developed to make it easier for their species to stay alive and there you have it. a queen...is my two cents

Where in the Alien series is there a royal facehugger? Ive never heard of that before? That could be what the trilobite is. Did anyone else notice how quickly the xeno was born in Prometheus, way quicker effects on the carrier than in Alien. Also when the Xeno chestbursts the Engineer is already dead. I like the idea of it being a Queen and connecting it to Aliens. I reckon its the two types of Engineer. The Engineers were all together at first, sacrificing themselves for life. Some of them found out about making the eggs, and using them on themselves for sacrifice for a new perfect species. The others didnt like this, so tried destroying the eggs, or getting them out of reach. But one got out, probably just ran off and died, but isnt there a burnt hole on the juggernaught? Whats that?

K I know I've posted this before, and it seems like a crazy theory but I'm dead serious here. Some of the male themes, male patriarchy themes, calling Weyland a King, David being Weyland's closest thing to a son, the Engineers etc they're pointing to something that may be obvious afterwards. Even when Fifield asks you really think that things female, and the appearance of the Hammerpede looks almost more male, decked with King cobra-like hood... To sum up my thesis I strongly believe we will see a King Alien before all is said and done, and that is in fact what burst out of the original Jockey... We never see it because the natural order is for the Kings to die and be replaced by the Queen Alien as the drones are suppressed at first. The male side is repressed. In Engineers and a lesser extent humans the female side is repressed. In Aliens the actual genetics & the Queen repress the would be males once the Queen is born. They become the sexless servants/drones/subjects to the Queen. Then can later become male warriors still subject to the Queen, never allowed to become a King while a hive/Queen/eggs are present. In Prometheus we have no eggs and no queen yet. Eventually the Queen usurps the King as the more logical form of egg laying is used instead of morphing... Some of the drones and warriors can still morph to a small extent as a backup in case the queen is dead. But the Queen completely takes over the Hive, and in most cases kills the King like in Preying Mantises or Black Widows to produce her offspring... Vickers never got to become Queen and take over from the King because she was repressed by the male side: David & Weyland... & Weyland's desire to live forever. But a King normally only has his reign and that's it... The engineers changed things. What if this is all leading up to something that's the opposite of what we're expecting, like finding man in the stars instead of gods. Instead of the goddess, the true creators... the true Space Jockies.... We've seen some sexual differentiation within the Alien species, otherwise the word Queen wouldn't be used to imply some sort of separation between classes/sexes... In humans males are larger, on average, because of our particular sexual dimorphism within our species. What I'm proposing is that with the Engineers/Space Jockies it's radically different, and the opposite... a much bigger difference in size-- but still a little bit of class problems interrelated with their genders. The same is true of the Aliens, but the Alien follows our sexual dimorphism... Males are bigger. The world of Prometheus is designed for the males, designed for the King... reflecting some themes of male patriarchy. I'm almost 99.9% certain we will find the opposite of what we're expecting, instead of gods we find man. Instead of a Queen, we find a totally new introduction to the life cycle (at least for the movies, and for how it'll be represented). A King alien to tie in with the themes about Kings that are foreshadowing its arrival into the fray in Paradise... The auto med that Shaw reprograms is symbolically representing her struggle against the king/patriarchy. That machine was only designed for the King... Likewise, I suspect the genetic tampering/recreation of the Alien genetics, mixing it with the goo, led to the enhancement of the Alien by changing its sexual dynamics and the way it reproduces. This thing may use a variation of the morphing cycle, as we've seen evidence of morphing going on in Prometheus. It may also reanimate dead cells... so the food source on the moon may be the bodies that are left behind... Making this form of the fire much more dangerous. It can't be extinguished without much more sacrifice than Weyland's match trick calls for. Like with the Engineers and us, the females have a role in the Alien species, but it's the opposite of what's going on with us... Usually the Queen is in charge... But as Chris said we never get to see exactly how the outbreak at Hadley's Hope progresses. I really believe, in the end, it will be revealed the bigger Jockies/Engineers are actually the females- forced into servitude as Pilots usually because of what happened in the past (slight parallel with Ripley coming when we find out who really runs the company)... Also the thing that burst out of her is a boy... Because we never see how an alien hive/kingdom/colony is built either... "A king has his reign and then he dies... it's inevitable" it may be revealed to be the true natural order of things for the Alien species... The King is usually dead by the time we see a hive constructed and this keeps the balance of nature in tact for their species. The Engineers & male Elders have forced their balance because the females were once in charge... they Engineered the female side out of themselves and made it dormant. They have to carry the x chromosome to be a genetic match... Likewise the drones are sexless and warriors become male servants in the presence of a Queen. But what if there's an unseen part to the life-cycle? And certain things like Weyland's preference for a son, even though he's created, foreshadow this... but it would be too big of a thing to make the foreshadowing too obvious. David's right and wrong at the same time, big things do have small beginnings... but they have even bigger middles than the end or beginning. Meaning, in more ways than one, that Paradise could be a link to something more, but Paradise will be huge and hard to surpass. The way it could do that though is by bringing the queen back into it to take her rightful place on the throne. I really think Prometheus is only the small beginning to a much larger story, and until Paradise finishes the story they're not telling and Prometheus will remain misunderstood. If there is a third movie I feel it'll be significantly less connected to Prometheus and Paradise. More connected to Alien and Aliens. The engineers tried to Enhance the bio-weapon but the disturbed the nature of the creatures sexual-social hierarchy system. The King will try to hold onto its reign and be in full display because of what the Engineers did to the old form of the bio-weapon. They changed it to be more based on the morphing-cycle... made it more male... made it almost all male, and the female side has been repressed. This King can reanimate dead cells and it's much larger than it normally would be if born from a human... It has a longer lifespan than the unseen Kings who kick-start hives and will desperately try to hold on to that reign Because the male side/morphing side of the genetics is what normally ensures survival of the species when the eggs are gone and only one creature remains. A built in survival mechanism being used in the deleted scene in the original, because of the absence of a Queen/Eggs once they left the Derelict.

THanks for the analysis of out little space opera(without the singing). I had not thought of all of the male themed threads in the movie. And it seems there are even others not mentioned in the post. The Big Head Room comes to mind. David has a mixture of male /female traits but I don'r know how this reflects on his creator. @Mala'kak You must have great keyboard skills to write a lengthy post without timing out. and losing the text..Good for you.

@DenzelTH A Royal Face Huger is what impregnated Ripley in Alien 3 and thus why she was carrying a Xeno Queen. I am sure it was in one of the cuts of Alien 3 of which there are a number. As far as the gestation period in Prometheus well we do not know how long after the Engineer got Hugged to when the Deacon burst out, this could have been a few hours or longer. We can assume that maybe this hybrid organism has a faster growth rate than the Alien Xeno Cycle, and maybe how fast Shaw went from not pregnant to she gave birth to the Trilobite is evidence of how fast this new organism grows and also how it grew from the Baby Squid to the full size Trilobite in a short time. It would also be safe to assume due to the size of the Xeno Chest Buster compared to a Deacon one then as the Deacon is larger then the host would die before giving birth to a chest buster... i guess like a Human womb would not carry a Cow Calf, but imagine if a Cow Calf was implanted into a Human Womb but would still be able to grow to full birth size it would rip the Humans insides apart and kill them... bit of a dumb analogy but i hope you get what i mean? @Mala'kak I think the whole Queen concept was also with changing the Xeno to a like Insect nature organism like a Bee Hive or Ant nest etc, in which a normal egg can be changed to a Queen for when the species needs one. @Indy John The best thing is always highlight your text and hit copy before you post that way if your logged out just log in and paste... @richardbrucebaxter "the queen birth life cycle involves a body guard in Alien 3 (which is why I find that screen shot of the possible egg amongst the curled up deacon quite interesting)." A Good Point and one that could mix the Egg Morph and Queen into each other. You see in Alien DC the Xeno was changing one crew member (Brett) into what looks like a Egg while the other member (Dallas) was being cocooned like the Human Hosts in Aliens. Now what if what was going on is that Brett was being turned into a Egg that would give rise to a Royal Face Hugger that would then use cocooned Dallas as the Host. We then get a Xeno Queen with a Xeno Guard and then the Queen could start to lay Eggs on the Nostromo. As far as the size of the SJ Xeno Chest Buster in Alien the hole is larger than that of a Human who has been Face Hugged, but then its by no means as big as the hole that the Deacon made. It would appear that as the Xeno takes on traits of its host if one Face Hugged a Human and a 15 ft Giant then we can expect a Xeno that would be twice the size. Ridley has pretty said though that in Alien the Space Jockeys Derelict already had a Cargo of Eggs and that none was laid by the Queen.

Thanks guys for your replies- they have been really interesting to read. Just a few problems/anomalies remain from above; 1) - Could not the Alien 1 SJ xeno have used its classic intelligence (eg Alien Res) to lay its eggs in a bio frindly environment that double serves as a trap? ("reacts when touched") - the queen birth life cycle involves a body guard in Alien 3 (which is why I find that screen shot of the possible egg amongst the curled up deacon quite interesting). - The reproductive capacity of the xenomorph is what makes it such a formidible weapon, so even if they reengineered the xenomorph (and the deacon is not a protoxeno) I doubt they would have dropped that feature. 2) - The Alien 1 SJ body hugger appears to have come from LV223 (eg during the 2000 year ago outbreak) given that it is giant sized like the body hugger in Prometheus. They also both don't experience a wake up period after injestion. So even if it was for some reason carrying a batch of eggs from an undisclosed location, this could not have been the source of its demise.. - (And by the way assuming the above is the case - ie giant body hugger match from Alien 1 + Prometheus SJs, and that the deacon is not a protoxeno but a genetically modified xeno, then how could the derelict ship possibly be 1 mill years old?) - In my mind it would make sense that the bio weapon (deacon protoxeno, which reproduces into xeno) is always delivered using a safe artificial canister (urn). And how can you improve on the perfect organism? (more of an Alien philosophical issue than anything else) - Again assuming the above is the case - ie giant body hugger match Alien 1 + Prometheus SJs, if the deacon (giant body hugger offspring) is not a protoxeno, but is instead some asexual genetically modified xeno, then how does one explain the cocooning/hive structure on the derelict ship in Alien 1? - [Without Alien 1 special edition, one would almost be certain that a queen had been around (and therefore laying eggs), since we only ever see that hive structure in Aliens. One things for certain; if it wasn't a queen itself, whatever came out of the Alien 1 SJ expected a queen to hatch soon. And it was produced by one massive body hugger] Thanks again for hearing us out - cheers. --- UPDATE; Or alternatively, possibly the fact the derilict ship had two types of face hugger (large + small) supports Ridley's proposition that the ship came from an "undisclosed location" (ie quite possibly the home world of the xenomorph organism). One of the big mean locals hitched a ride, after the SJ collected a batch of eggs for transport to the bio-weapons outpost. (And this all occurred a long time ago, well before the original outbreak on LV223).

[img]http://basementrejects.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/alien-space-pilot.jpg[/img] [img]http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081014171307/aliens/images/2/26/SpaceJockey.jpg[/img] [img]http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/105/2/d/alien_space_jockey_2_by_mbinz-d4wa1uc.png[/img]

Thanks Dave for your reply - it is really interesting to hear about what Alien DC might mean for the possible Alien-queen life cycle. I think I might have mistaken the exoskeleton of the SJ (seat belt) for the exoskeleton of a body hugger? Yes: it appears this is the case based on google images of the Prometheus SJ. Unexpected benefits of owning the blu-ray it seems... Thanks again for your comments; it has been a really interesting discussion. Richard