even Cameron thinks part 1 didn't add up logically.

Not surprised by his reaction

I couldn't care less what James Cameron thinks. Next to resurrection, Aliens was the worst in the lot. This guy took a beautiful and carefully crafted horror classic and turned it into an all-out American action movie.

Cameron can't compute because Prometheus is an original creation, not some contrived, cliche' turd like Avatar. (See Shogun, Dances with Wolves, The Last Samurai, shall I go on?)

@James Cameron- thanks for T2, now kindly fuck off. Thank you.

Ha ha while I was editing the nastiness out of my post Fleshvessel hit it on the head!

Thankfully, Cameron is not the last word in fine film making. If I wanted his version of logic I'd watch more than the 30 minutes of Avatar I did watch. So no, he hasn't altered my view. 

Bug Hunts rrrRight!?

"@James Cameron- 
thanks for T2, 
now kindly fuck off. 
Thank you."
Fleshvessel 
3 hours 
after reading that 
I am still LMFAO !!!

I count myself - proudly - as a lover.

And no, I'm not "convinced" of anything.

Cameron's opinion is just that, an opinion.

If his word is gospel for the haters (how convenient!), what's going to happen if another filmmaker actually says the exact opposite?

And further yet: he didn't even elaborate on his opinion. No reason to be bothered by his unsubstantiated remark.

Talk about the pot calling the bloody kettle. Cameron does’nt like A3 because Fincher altered what Cameron had created  with Aliens. So let me see, Scott does Alien, which is an original work whilst Cameron alters an idea. Dan O ‘Bannon /John Carpenter have a knife scene in Dark Star which was an original idea, for Cameron to alter. Prometheus is based on original ideas. P2 requires original ideas. Some people just can’t take a hint.

Liked Avatar but its too damn long even steals some of the music directly from one of my favs Apocalypto with my native indian peoples. When I heard the music it made me realize that his soundtrack wasnt original. Terminater 2 is good, i dunno hes good at action movies with CGI blue people but not a thinking and mystery type of movie like Prometheus. His comments are moot just like dj melziamane.... I cant even pronounce his name without getting frustrated by the spelling.

@Something Real,

Whats your favorite part of Prometheus?

Ladies and Gentlemen such harsh tones for Cameron. While I do not want to get booed out of the debate I would like to point out that Cameron is exercising his criticism in a respectable way. It is in private that I would like to hear what he has to say about the film.

I have said this before and I will say it again. We all know that the producers screwed with Ridley on the budget for this film and there were problems with the script that could not be reconciled after Ridley had started to MAKE A Much LARGER MOVIE...well it got downsized quite a bit as the producers no longer wanted to spend the money for our beloved artist's vision.

That is show business for you!

Forget about all that bull Sh!t. Ok the producers were screwing Ridley’s create reputation so they got exactly what they deserved back.

You know the stupid part of all of this is that when the movie took in global profits it still made an impressive half a billion dollars. Not bad for a movie that has a less than average script, many scenes that have too much hit the digital cutting floors, and yes those damned plot holes so big you could fly a space ship through.

Ridley’s films have grossed well over 5 billion dollars adjusted for inflation…Alien made 104 million in 1979. Today that 104 million would be close to a billion. Just one film.

Do you know what it is to go Ridley Scott and say some dumb stupid ass hole thing about spending 50 or 75 more million to get back another easy billion and half on a three movie deal.

People! The producers of Prometheus should have just showed up to the set and threw dung at everyone they were so crazy.

You would have to be out of your fking mind not to trust Ridley to make Prometheus the way it needed to be made. Parts of the movie are a master piece as far as fine art is concerned. You all got to see things in this film never seen in the medium of film before. There was supposed to be so much much more in this film…don’t hate Cameron because he is telling the truth. Hate the stupid dumb producers for not trusting Ridley to make a film that likely would have had no equal for a long time.

When I watch Prometheus and I have watched it a couple dozen times all the way through, I can only imagine what we could have really saw had the producers not been so cheap and stupid.

These engineers are 15 maybe 20 foot tall highly evolved bio “synthetic” (engineer made) nano mechs, hundreds of thousands of years evolved.

You know what we got to see…some shit head in a cheap poly-rubber grey suit with plenty of ok FX painted makeup. Yeah we got screwed bad.

I have no doubt that Ridley could have pulled this off. What you saw in Prometheus were just a few of the sets. Most of the sets that were made after the movies budget got cut were just a bunch of little shit boxes so that the whole movie would not have to scrapped and wasted.

Ridley will never admit all of this because he has to be the true gentleman that he is and uphold the fine reputations of the actors in this movie. People have to get paid in this business to make a living.

Believe me the producers are going bat shit crazy because they realize now how bad they fked up a multi - billion dollar franchise that Scott so brilliantly and easily gave them and they did nothing but
insult him, insult his talent, his true vision.

Honestly, if you want to at least read a pretty great interpretation of what Prometheus could have been ask BigDave to write just one chapter from any part in the movie and you will understand just how incredible this movie was supposed to be.

For some thirty years I have enjoyed the scene in Alien when Cain has the face hugger on, Dallas says
yes yes cut it off! When that acid sprays from the digit incredible! That’s the genius of Ridley right there. All these other directors had a lot more money to work with and all of them together could not have put a film like Alien together.

My favorite scene in Prometheus is the reanimation of the head. For me this individual part in the movie is the finest thing in science fiction movie making. It is a singularly unique piece of fine art. I would have paid a full admission price just to see that one scene.

Honestly a lot of these producers are fking up the business of movie making bad. We need to let people buy into making a movie and cut out big producers if possible. I would be glad to pay full price right now for Prometheus 2 if Scott were to get the money first to best decide how it would be spent to make the next film and the next. Crowd sourcing is just as valid a way to produce art as already banked money. 

Cameron is a great Writer and Director and deserves props....

As much as I love Ridley, I have to agree that certain aspects of Prometheus didnt make sense or are Logical.... Having said that Mining "Unobtainiam" from beneath the most populated area on the planet in Avatar instead of from the hundreds of giant floating hunks of rock floating around the planet does......

Just sayin.....

Lets all imagine what kind of film Prometheus would have been if Cameron would have made it.

Lets put it this way, we wouldn't all be on this forum discussing the film because Cameron would have force fed us all the answers in his usual patronizing fashion.

The Space Jockeys would probably be giant, blue cat people.

The aliens would probably have been giant cockroaches.

And there would have undoubtedly been the usual "platoon of obnoxious marines."

Then, the obligatory brady bunch ending.

Avatar sums up Cameron in a nutshell; an overrated, overbearing, piece of pretentious cr@p from start to end.

Imagine what a movie 
Prometheus would have 
Been if ridley scott had the
Final and only 
say in its making.

@Oduodu; agreed. The producers and studio executives would do well to keep their beaks out and allow more creative freedom!

Redant, wow, beautifully put. I second everything you said.

I am not one to post crass stuff, but when I hear opinions, I can't help but think of someone I know who always says, "Opinions are like a**holes.  Everyone has one and they almost always stink."

I'm just gonna condemn myself here and say that one of my favorite movies is Casino Royale, the 1968 James Bond spoof with David Niven as Bond. It's truly a mess, but a spectacular one and when I first saw it as a kid I had no understanding of the rules of film making, or story telling, it was just a surreal, super cool movie like no other and I love it to this day. The opening credits alone are a marvel, and the score is fantastic. It's just so absurd.

I don't think Prometheus suffered from the excess and ineptitude that Casino Royale did, but it's somewhat that movie's spiritual doppelgänger, you have to just let go and enjoy the ride. And I really don't think it was by accident. I do agree with everything Redant said, based on everything we've heard it suffered at the hands of commerce, but not necessarily stupidity. Even with too many cooks we still got a movie that is utterly unique in the realm of science fiction blockbusters. A gem.

I've enjoyed every James Cameron movie I've ever seen, with the exception of Avatar. But not one of them has captured my imagination and held it like Alien, or Prometheus. I'm perfectly happy to let logic have a holiday. Ridley Scott himself said that the beauty of Alien was that it defied logic. Why wouldn't he go for that again, on a larger scale?

@MajorNoob "Ridley Scott himself said that the beauty of Alien was that it defied logic. Why wouldn't he go for that again, on a larger scale?"

^^ Exactly. The Alien defies logic. We can't completely understand the Alien by framing it with human anthropological/biological concepts...The Engineers are us, so there are many things we can learn simply by applying cross-cultural analysis techniques. However, the Aliens are supposed to be "Alien" to us, or at least strange/bizarre, possessing traits that are seldom seen in organisms on Earth. Traits that are truly alien to us. I think the Spacejockies were revealed to be much like us, genetically and anatomically speaking, so that it would be easier to understand their culture...

The original creature was only partially based on insects. The Alien's mode of reproduction was based on the parasitic wasp species that infects ants with a fungus, and turns the ants into zombie hosts for its young... The ants become confused and useless to their hive. The fungi starts to rule the ants mind, turning the ants into mindless zombies to their hosts.  The wasp uses the ant's body to produce its young.  The larvae will burst out of the ant's head, because the brain of the ants is infected first by the fungus... That's where the ants' genetic instincts are...In humans there are collections of nerves by the pancreas that produce "gut feelings", or intuitions, possibly instinct... Aliens might be able to burst out of organisms' heads, or their guts..  Cameron did a terrible thing when he compared their social organization/hivemind to ants... He got it all wrong.  I think they're more like wasps in some respects, as well as decomposers, part of the natural order of things, but alien to us and can't be pinned down to most living species' modes of behaviour. They're close to death at all times, so you can't kill them, part of their role in the natural order of things is to break life down as decomposers...The Marines are the ants. IF Cameron hadn't compared them to ants then maybe Alien social organization would be more like the parasitic wasps that turn ants into zombies...

I don't think we need all the answers just yet... The ability to rely on instincts might be important, Shaw has this "in her", she's a survivor. Instinct isn't guided by logic. It's not guided by intellect alone. Instinct is a natural part of the way things think. The Alien is the perfect organism, it doesn't rely on logic...It relies on instinct, and has perfect survival skills, amazing adaptive mechanisms/ defensive abilites, acid for blood "you don't dare kill the son of a bitch". I don't think David has all the answers...he had to draw interpretations on things. The adventure defies David's logic as well... David is a bit of an artist (we see him painting in the virals, he likes films, he's pseudo-emotional etc). David had to be able to interpret art, that's what the happy bday viral was all about...They made David able to perceive and interpret images in the happy birthday viral video, because the proper interpretation of the Engineer artwork could be key.. I think we're dealing with small pieces of a much larger picture.

Part of why Prometheus is so great, imo, is because it creates even more questions. It doesn't spell things out, or connect in a straight-forward, predictable manner.  It's more fun for me to learn things in stages and have all the potential clues to analyze; instead of being able to easily predict where things are going.  We know about the Engineers/Spacejockies now, but we still have many more mysteries.

If the big picture could be glimpsed already, or if the whole puzzle could be solved, then it wouldn't be fun seeing the answers to some of the questions play out.. It might not add up logically yet, because we don't have all the data. That's the way I look at it... The simplest most logical explantions are best, however you need all the data/observations accounted for..  You can start to "work out the broad strokes" like David, but even he only has access to a certain amount of data so far, doesn't have complete data about the Engineers and although he can make better interpretations than us he remains vague or ambiguous to cover what he knows/doesn't know... A big part of my overall theory is that David still doesn't know everything about the Engineers, only "the broad strokes" and hasn't formed a complete picture/interpretation of the data. I think the audience only has pieces of the puzzle so far, and in the sequel we would get a lot more data to work with, almost casting some things in Prometheus in a different light.

Ash: You still don't understand what you're dealing with, do you? Perfect organism. Its structural perfection is matched only by its hostility.

Lambert: You admire it.

Ash: I admire its purity. A survivor... unclouded by conscience, remorse, or delusions of morality.

Parker: Look, I am... I've heard enough of this, and I'm asking you to pull the plug.

Ash: [Ripley goes to disconnect Ash, who interrupts] Last word.

Ripley: What?

Ash: I can't lie to you about your chances, but... you have my sympathies.

That scene with Ash is one of the most chilling in the whole movie. Not just the words, but coming from a severed head drooling some material that looks like semen.

Prometheus is that sort of film that rewards any level of scrutiny, I think. I also think the universe, in Ridleys hands, is not bound to the Aliens story as Cameron told it. Or it will sidestep it. I think he's taking it back, and already the otherness on view is breathtaking. So what if the Engineers are humanoid? They're still quite cold and bizarre and if there's gonna be any human like beings in the Alien universe, it has to be them.

Inasmuch as I know the Morb was modeled after certain terrestrial life, I too don't see the bug connection. Or don't want to. And definitely don't have to, and yes that IS the brilliance behind this particular story, much of it can be whatever we want. Some things will never be answered. That's part of nature.

When you consider the logic, they actually went to some lengths to connect certain dots. But then, when they did, the answers weren't satisfactory for some. I want SOME clarity but only because I'm excited to have a better grasp. But yes, if we had the whole thing right now we probably wouldn't be talking. And I don't expect to ever have the whole picture. Or, if I do, I hope I get to savor it first for quite a while before Im satisfied.

Cameron doesn't have the vision of great film makers like Kubric and Hitchcock, but Ridley does.

In the fullness of time, greatness is discovered, and that is how Prometheus will be viewed over time.

The flipside to that coin is that films like ALIENS - In the fullness of time - will be outed as being nothing more than overrated, hyped up, self indulgent sh!te!

I mean, if anyone requires proof of this, all they have to do is read most of the comments on this thread and other threads from members who are amongst the biggest fans of ALIEN and Prometheus in the world. Who were once fans of ALIENS (including myself.)

Hey N4 I totally agree with the Hitchcock parallel, which I think is really strong in Prometheus. Kubrick, too, but that's more obvious.

Cameron's a great film maker, no question, I enjoyed the hell out of Aliens too but its been overshadowed, now. It should be noted, to be fair, that he also said he was glad Prometheus was made, although in context the comment seemed a bit back handed. He is arrogant, but unlike Michael Bay he's earned it. Yes, he's known for big action films but at least they're coherent, whereas Bay is just juvenile.

And before the issue of coherence is brought up about Prometheus, I think for all its surreal fable spinning it was quite coherent. I had no problem understanding the basic story. The rest is up to the individual to decipher as they see fit. I think that was the whole point, sort of honoring the ambiguities that drove the popularity of Alien for 30 years, and expanding them.

Noob; Ok, maybe i'm being a bit harsh on old Cameron, but i can't think of one good film he's made since T2.

Well its all down to difference of oppinions, i for one really liked Aliens as a movie, it had a bit of everything.

Alien was a Enigma a Mystrey, and maybe should had been left alone as a standard movie, but then maybe we would never had seen all the Merchandise and Spin offs that came from exploring the Xeno more in Aliens. 

The Space Jockey was a Enigma, and some now disapointed at maybe the injustice that Prometheus did to that Enigma, and the sequel could even go futher to damaging the Space Jockey we just dont know, but could be another Xeno fest.... i hope by Alien-y they mean more of a suspense horror... but with a exploration/recover mission and a host of David 8's i dont think it would be so much, i think we would get more of a Alien 3 with more different xeno related Monsters..

As far as Cameron and the Xeno goes, Ridley had also long before Aliens sugested that the Alien was kind of insect like....  just as he said way before Prometheus and even Alien 3 that the Space Jockey was a Space suit.

Ive discused this lots of times, but a comparison with Ants is good, as Ants are the perfect lifeform in a sense, yeah they ant no Mankind, but have we been shown that the Xeno even in Alien was a creature that would do what Mankind can?

Nope it was a Parasite, that becomes a killing machine whos only purpose is to procreate its own kind and that was it simple as that.... And thus having a Queen fits in with that, and the Egg Morph well if thats how they make a Queen when there are none again makes perfect sense for a lifeform whos aim is to procreate and invest/wipe out.

some like to argue the Alien Xeno was more than that, it was clever, well i cant say Alien showed us down the path that it would get to Earth kill us off and take over planet and then start to create any kind of civilisation.

Oh but it was clever and Camerons Bugs was not.... nope it was showing signs of a creature that was in ideal enviroment to hide against a crew who are unarmed and trained, and its prime instinct was survive so that it can procreate.

Aliens we saw the Xeno cut the power, we saw how i protected the Hive at all costs, we saw how it then took to the space inbetween floors to avoid the sentry guns.  All signs of something more than just mindless Bugs like Star Ship Troopers.

Yes Cameron wanted the happy ending, and thank go we never got that, i think what Alien 3 did then was great.

I have also used the analogy of how a team of a few special ops when they are out numbered behind enemy lines with a clear objective to destroy something or someone would take a cautious aproach..

compared to how a team of say 30+ Marines and Navy Seals would react as far as protecting a objective, these marines would take more risks for the greater cause as opposed to being more stealthy.

Cameron has made some good movies, but he is argogant, Ridley is to a degree but not as much, Ridley has made some wonderful movies and visually with the details and especially when he does not use much in way of effects but uses real props and sets, its amazing...

But not with its flaws... (Gladiator Men in Jeans etc) and failures to produce Scale... Space Jockey and Engineers.

@Redant

Excelent points....

Look if we can believe what we hear in that Ridley really liked Spaights draft and wanted to give us more answers to Alien etc, and thus he went ahead and put Spaights draft to the big screen.

We would have got something that would been too Alieny and something that stood between a Alien+Aliens with mix of Prometheus.

I liked what Lindeloff tried to do, but wish they then got someone else in or that Ridley then took Lindeloffs and Spaights and tried to marry the two and reach a draft that had a bit of both.

I guess Avatar as not everyones cup of tea.... it was a idea to give us a whole new world to explore and a family movie as much as anyting, and it did fantastic.... we cant argue against that even though the movie was not my cup of tea, movies like that are not.  But i think they did wonders with creating the World etc.... again not my cup of tea.

End of the day Prometheus was a great potential, maybe Fox wanted to tone down the Xeno, because well as Ridley said every one as seen the Xeno done to the death, but we could have got some clues more than we did.... the movie was to explore the Space Jockey and that was the right thing to do.... only and especially with the cut we got, we never really explored them enough.

Going the route that they created us and are maybe the interpetations of many cultures Myths and Religons are based on is a MASSIVE SCOPE... but just as much a MASSIVE PROBLEM... you see when i worked on many ideas for how i would gone with Prometheus Part 2 most was simple..... apart from this connection, as i had so many ideas that kind of contridict and well was a massive task so i stopped doing rough draft as for the Engineers Agenda i had like well too many ideas that are all equally AWSOME but you could not have every idea used and i just could not think which to go with...

Thats the task that the production and writting staff now face, they have a MASSIVE TASK... but maybe going away from the Space Jockey/Engineers and going more back to the Alien Xeno is a easier way out.... and i fear thats what we will now get.

Ideally....

I would have loved to see some other writter come onboard and merge best parts of Spaights and Lindeloffs work, with trying to tie in the ideas from Star Beast that never made it to Alien.

Then give it a 200M budget and 3 hour movie directed by Peter Jackson and John Carpenter input...

But alas.......................

one more thing about the Xeno....

We still do not know its full PURPOSE! 

That is up in the air for maybe future movies to explore, but Prometheus did give us some clues, that could lead us down a number of paths.

In Alien all we had was that there was some Eggs, that produce a Parasite that infected a Hist to produce a Organisms, whos aim was purely to procreate itself... in essense what we got was more like a FLY than anything else, simple as....

Aliens tried to show us that there was more to it than that and that while the Agenda is procreate its also that they do so in a hive, like how Termites, Bees and Ants do.

So Alien sets us down the path of a FLY, or Beetle...

Aliens down the path of a Bee or Ant...

Again the Alien deleted scene could show us maybe it dont create a Egg, but just stores a Hosts DNA in some kind of container that can be extracted some way, to the Space Jockeys Agenda..... thats one way to look at it.

But then again it could just be purely like Star Beast the final process to restart the procreation Cycle....

But then again it could tie in to Aliens, in that how Ants and Bees can create a Queen in a certain way when all Queens are dead or if there needs to be another, then again the Egg Morph could be a way to create a Queen... to me this makes the most sense to tie the whole franchise together.

But now we are left with WHERE DID THEY COME FROM ORIGINALLY... ? DID THE ENGINEERS CREATE THEM AND WHY?  and if not then WHY DID THE ENGINEERS HAVE A CONNECTION?  and finally WAS THE ENGINEERS ONLY USE FOR THEM AS A WEAPON?

These are the things that need answering once they are answered we dont need to see the Xeno again..