P1 a ripp off of AVP ?? Huh ??? Or the other way around ?? or just ideas that was applied where it wasnt supposed to be

Sigh...

There are a lot of similarities between the two I agree. That's probably because both movies used ideas from Dan O'Bannon and Ronald Shussett's original 'Alien' script AKA "Starbeast".  The pyramids and all that. 

Ok so then

These ideas were floating Around for a Long time. My only concern is if what we saw Was really at the End of the day Jon spaihts ideas ?? Was avp then A way for fox To use the basic Ideas that ridley Always had as To going to the Civilisation that Created/discovered The xeno and their Culture applied to the Crossover to the Predator universe ?? And do it on earth With the "Mountain of Madness " Being thrown in There as it relates To the soggoth Or evil liquid That takes shape. And of course Its on earth Something they Wanted to do for a long time.

And then they come Back to the Alien universe to
Redo it .

That's cool.

Its just that I now don't Believe that Jon spaihts Or ridley Entirely Were in Complete Control of the Final script And ideas.

I bet p2 Will veer to possible ideas From avp in That enemy the Of my enemy Is my friend. Somewhere In the galaxy. Shaw and david Will have to unite To defeat an evil That destroyed the Engineers or Elders on their Home world. And after they unite with a single live engineer they discover and then befriend.

Together they defeat this evil and as reward the engineer will allow them to access to technology that might make david human ans perhaps shaw meets her parents.

Perhaps they will be introduced to Elders. And this causes The engineers to Take shaw and David back to Earth and then One of them Or the engineer Is chestbursted And the intro To p3 Where an elder crashed,,,,,,,, Or some such ..

I now understand Where all the ideas Many other members Were mentioning Came from . So I predict a p2 where we will see david and shaw reunite to save a lone engineer that is the only survivor of their home world and Helping them to help on a mission to destroy the xeno creatures created by the black goo as in the ampules .

We might see the elders change their minds about mankind.

So in essence the ideas for an alien 5 have always been about returning to civilisation that created to the xeno's and who created them and exploring their world and their relationship to the xeno. So in avp we just saw an predator cross over to that idea. it didnt work the way they (fox) wanted to.

So they decided to redo that but just no predators this time but space jockeys. Maybe that why so many people are negative towards the avp universe. What happened there should have happened to an alien prequel.

So the prequel ideas have been around for a while. So then the problem with an alien 5 would have to be how do you go from there to the civilisations that created the xeno and their worlds.
Though not originally i have suggested a movie with clone ripley and call getting into the database of wallmart (or WY if they still existed) and getting access to engineer tech that allow ripley clone to acces ripleys full set of original memories that allows her to be ripley for all actual intents and purposes while call (like david) can become human while both become immortal - but in the process they discover the engineer homeworlds and their fate and their stories.
This sounds (almost) like what i described above in that they will eventually end up meeting an engineer on his homeworld and perhaps Ripley becomes a female engineer and solves their reproduction problem.

oh well.............

its just that in the article i linked there is one post where the similarities between p1 and avp are listed and it is astounding.

i dont think any less of prometheus.

it is still ridleys ideas (the prequel going to the civilisation that created/discovered the xeno) and there were at least 2 other people who shared ridleys ideas. ridley also stated these beings self destructed and that their civilisation is in ruins so to speak. they messed with something that they were never suposed to or simply didnt understand what they were dealing with and i believe they got it from somewhere - a higher power and it was never intended to be theirs - fire and hence the name prometheus. in that regard it (an alien prequel) will always be the way it should have been.

so that at least explains why if an alien 5 materialises it probably will never the same story as prometheus .

or will it ??

does this in any way help with the alien - prometheus connection. i believe it does.

i dont see this as a problem or plagiarism. fox owns the series and they can do whatever they want to.

they reused ideas that was around for a long time and those ideas (or at least the fundamental basic idea came from ridley) is now being used where it was supposed to be.

i am just saying what people in the thead i linked above was saying.

it also tells me that avp and prometheus does not share the same universe and that charles bishop weyland is replaced by mr weyland and therefore perhaps aliens might not be canon as it contains bishop . or does it ??

so perhaps p1 is on a different tangent but now i am more satisfied that it indeed is in the same universe as at least alien and that is going to go to tie in to alien and that p2 will visit that civilisation - but the way that p1 was just made to be over ambiguous etc and the script order of events just cut out of order - i dont believe that was ridley.

so prometheus then is basically what ridley wanted but another movie or perhaps 2 will ne needed for that vision to come full circle.

as has been stated many times .

i have also found new respect for snorkelbottom/gavin singleston's take on things. i can now see where he is coming from when he started many of his threads.

so then p1 is very much what it was intended to be but perhaps the specific nature of events was not what everyone was expecting

BUT

i now think of prometheus as the gateway to the (enginner) civlisation that created the xeno(and we dont need to see a live one) and we will hopefully see what their civilisation is about or at least what it was before (i assume) when david and shaw discovers it.

p1 is half a movie and who knows one day we might get a p1 and p2 cut together with all the deleted scenes added - all 3 and a half hours and it might be one of the greatest movies ever and hopefully a tribute to ridley.

i have also noted through valaquen's strange shape blog the role that o'bannon played in bringing the people together that made alien what it was. not to be underestimated.

@ Odudo

It's likely that the similarities are a shared desire to go back to some of the pyramid stuff etc. Coincidences I would say. Ridley claims he never watched AVP so i think he just wanted to go back to some of these ideas, and Fox had already snuck them into AVP. Ideas from the Starbeast script and other early ideas etc.. The thing about Fox, Hill & Giler is that they have access to every idea that ever passed through there. They could have been consciously or unconsciously influenced by earlier ideas.

Prometheus is different in many ways though. AVP isn't about how we were created by Engineers. The idea that Predators were messing around with the pyramids and/or other breeds of xeno can be separated from the Engineers creating us. David studied a language that precedes the ancient cultures that AVP shows the Predators were interacting with. Predators were around when these languages were fully formed. In theory, both could have interacted with our culture in the past, but I don't consider AVP canon, and don't think it's part of the movie timeline or the timeline of the comics...

We may actually learn things about Prometheus from the new comics. The old Dark Horse comics also approached the topic of us being created by the Space Jockies + interactions with Aliens in our ancient past.  They focused on destruction more than creation, though... "Aliens Apocalypse: The Destroying Angels", tells how all life on Earth was destroyed over a billion years ago by the Aliens...  "Sometimes to create, one must first destroy" ;)  Prometheus and the new comics take inspiration from things that came before, but do them in their own way. The Aliens already destroying all life on earth billions of years ago is an idea that might still be relevant... The new comics might be an attempt to re-work some of the old concepts, and provide insight to the films. They'll be more or less following the new Peter Weyland/Prometheus timeline.

In Aliens Apocalypse Dr. Keitel finds shale deposits in Australia from a paleontological dig containing fossilized remains that match things he's seen on other planets. At first glance this is similar to Prometheus, but it's possibly part of the puzzle.  There are similarities & differences. Paleontologists found fossilized remains pointing them in the opposite direction of creation, towards destruction. This convinces Keitel that the aliens are part of the natural order of the universe.. There were some religious themes, and he believed they served a higher purpose. The guy who sends Throop out to find Keitel works for a company that's in the shadows of the megacorps. I believe Shaw actually serves what's known as the Order. There's a third entity which enters things before the Yutani merge, and Shaw is being deceptive about her beliefs/ what she set out to accomplish. In the Quiet Eye video she shows surprisingly low honesty levels, the Quiet eye can detect honesty, Weyland corp knows what these people think & dream about, is manipulating their minds, and everyone on that ship had an agenda, it's just that some agenda's are less obvious.

Yutani corp's photo polygraph test (the Quiet Eye) recognized malintent/dishonesty & ulterior motives in Shaw's video calls. That's why Weyland took so long to answer/fund them...He knew that even Shaw had a hidden agenda. He had to pretend to be onboard with her beliefs, says pretty much word for word what she said in the calls during the hologram speech about the big questions. Holloway makes no effort to hide his true agenda in the training vids. He actually says he wants to wipe out all "man-made religions". This would be Shaw's true goal as well. She approaches it in a different way. She wants evidence. The entity known as The Order wants her to find out about the true god. There's a dominant religious sect in the comics that follows the teachings of St. Thomas. I believe Shaw's beliefs aren't christian in nature. They use christian symbols/names and teachings, but they altered them, and have their own name/beliefs for Paradise. Everyone in their group can choose to believe something different.  Shaw was brought into The Order at a young age. Holloway didn't like this. Wants to disprove god, while the Order wanted her to find the true god...The Order couldn't go to Weyland directly. So they tried to "trick" Weyland into funding their goals by using Shaw to ask for assistance. They funded some of Shaw's earliest research. Now The Order is one step closer to finding Paradise.  The Order is still a man-made, organized religion, so Holloway disliked that Shaw followed them. Although she chose her own beliefs. He wanted to prove that a true god wouldn't build in straight lines. Shaw is looking for actual proof of the real god, and Holloway wants to wipe out all man-made religions. If she finds evidence of a true god that's ok with him, because he wants to prove that all the religions have it wrong.

This also means Shaw was even more likely to accept an alien god. The order of St. Thomas and their members focus on spiritual teachings and view the cross a certain way. They look for universal truths and commonalities between species, similarities in spiritual beliefs, instead of differences in spiritual beliefs. All of the former religions of the Earth were welcome. But none of them matter much to The Order. Shaw is a fanatic follower of the order, and this is partially why she chose to continue her journey, why they follow Shaw to Paradise, and not Yutani. It morphed into a new religion system. Paradise becomes even moreso about science versus spiritual beliefs, rather than science versus organized religion. The Order is somewhat disorganized, but they're the only ones who have crafts that can hop across space in the comics...They needed Weyland to land first, establish a presence & explore. Some of their technicians needed more data, needed Wetland to reach the exact coordinate before hijacking some signals and making the jump themselve. They follow Shaw to Paradise.

Keitel ran off from the Order to study the Aliens, said he could see the gears of the universe turning..The Aliens are "destroying angels". Neither good nor bad. Perfect. "Unclouded by logic and delusions of morality"... He chose to believe they were part of the natural order in the universe, and desrve to be worshipped as angels...This can help undestand Engineer culture.

It will be interesting to see how the new AVP, Alien & Prometheus comics treat the Predators. The old AVP comics did a much better job of bringing Aliens & predators together. It's strange that Predators will now be in the same comic book universe as Engineers. The writers have talked to fox a little about things. I think Fox knows whatever their plan is for AVP now, and will pretend the AVP movies never happened/not address them or the old AVP storylines in any way. In some ways, I think they want to re-work the AVP concept.

They said they'd be following the canon of some movies, and almost hinted that AVP didn't happen, they're lossely following the timeline that Prometeus established with Peter Weyland in charge + the Predator & Alien movies. It will be like the Predators & Alien in the story are learning of each other again for the first time...

I don't like Super Predators, but i like the idea that the Super Predators are actually backed by the Engineers... The Predators weren't created by Engineers, but Super Predators were... That way, the Engineers have the upperhand over the Predator class. They keep them controlled through the division. Supplying/trading with only the Super Predators, and possessing advanced forms of the bio-weapons... I'd make it so that the Predators are already divided and conquered in the eyes of the Engineers. This keeps the AVP & Predator stuff as its own thing, almost separate from the Prometheus comics. Predators and Engineers barely interact.  One might show interest in things that are going on but Predators are reluctant to go against Engineers because they're backing the super preds, and could wipe out what's left of regular Predators.

http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=29136.0;nowap

Interesting

A bit late, but better than never. @VisionaryAlpha; I am pretty sure that was debunked as a lense flair.